Next Stop...Elementary Schools?

[boxcar]

Planned Parenthood Sets Up Shop At Roosevelt High To Reduce Teen Pregnancies

We all know what happens when decay gets deep into a tooth, right? When it gets really bad, the tooth has to come out. There's no saving it. Likewise, when moral decay spreads deeper into society, it will destroy the roots of that society and the nation will cease to exist. The foundational building block of and the cornerstone to any nation is the Family. It appears the number of dysfunctional families must be on the rise, since so many have lost control of their kids. Must be if Planned Parenthood must have a presence now in our schools! Unbelievable!

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/06/05/planned-parenthood-sets-up-shop-at-roosevelt-high-to-reduce-teen-pregnancies/

Boxcar

[TJDave]

Reducing teen pregnancies is a good thing... However it gets done.

[GaryG]

As I remember from the time that I spent in SoCal Roosevelt High is located in a heavily gang-infested area of East LA. I imagine that the amout of teen pregnancies is astronimical, so maybe it will help.

[Tom]

Maybe is the PARENTS had a presence in the kid's lives it would be better.

[boxcar]

Reducing teen pregnancies is a good thing... However it gets done.

Then stay tuned. PP will make its debut soon at an elementary school near you.
After all, why would a free society want to put a damper on sexual freedom at any age? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[TJDave]

Maybe is the PARENTS had a presence in the kid's lives it would be better.

If wishes were horses we'd all ride.

Maybe if parents had done some PLANNING these kids wouldn't be around to make stupid choices.

[TJDave]

Then stay tuned. PP will make its debut soon at an elementary school near you.
Boxcar

If it will prevent teenagers from having babies then I'm 1000% for it.

[StormChaser]

If you only teach abstinence, then you are missing a huge opportunity to teach real life. While the best thing would be for them to wait until they are older to be having sex, that just doesn't happen. EVEN IF parents are involved in their lives.

[Dave Schwartz]

Maybe is the PARENTS had a presence in the kid's lives it would be better.

Not always.

Seriously.

[StormChaser]

Not always.

Seriously.

I agree. I know kids that smoke pot/drink with their parents. What parents need to be is parents. With my daughter and I, we have a great relationship... most of the time. I am honest with her about the pitfalls and the good things in life, and I help her thru them if she ignores my advice. But I also don't beat her up about mistakes. Discuss the issue honestly, but don't talk down them. They stop listening in a heart beat when you do that.

[boxcar]

Not always.

Seriously.

Then what do you think Prov 22:6 is teaching, David?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

If you only teach abstinence, then you are missing a huge opportunity to teach real life. While the best thing would be for them to wait until they are older to be having sex, that just doesn't happen. EVEN IF parents are involved in their lives.


Really? Do you have statistics or something to back that assertion up? And if "that just doesn't happen", then the alternative must always happen, right? And the alternative is what exactly, "If it feels good to you, just do it because life is too short to deny yourself of pleasures"? Hedonism is in, Self-Discipline is passe? I'm just trying to understand precisely what the alternative option is to the Impossible Dream of Abstinence and where that alternative will inevitably take a society.

Boxcar

[StormChaser]

In a perfect world, if we all taught our children abstinence until marriage, then yes that would be great. IF, we as parents were the only people who advised and influenced our children, then yes it would work. But unfortunately our world is not that simple.
Have I taught my children from birth that abstinence is best? YES. Do I back it up with living a Christian lifestyle and showing them how to as well. YES.
But I also teach her how to not have babies, if that comes up. Because last I read, we all fall short of the glory of God. We all make bad choices (except apparently you). So, while I guide my daughter into adulthood, and I help her steer clear of the pitfalls. I am aware that I will not be with her every step of the way. I am also aware, that mr quarterback with the pretty blue eyes.. sometimes has more influence over a young girl's heart and mind then 17 years of good teaching. No I do not belive in "if it feels good then you should do it." No I do not teach that to my children. But I do believe that the more information my child has, the better off she will be.

[Dave Schwartz]

Proverbs 22:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 Start children off on the way they should go,
and even when they are old they will not turn from it.

Oh, preach it, my brother!

It is all well and good that the bible says do this or do that. In the real world, you might as well be walking around with a clapboard sign that says "Repent! The end is near."

The only ones who are listening are those who would listen. As for the rest, the words are wasted upon them. You will never slow down the sins of the world with preaching, my friend.

Besides... nobody is saying that parents should not parent.

The reality is that many children - especially those in the inner city - are without parents that are role models.

[StormChaser]

Really? Do you have statistics or something to back that assertion up? .

Boxcar

I am a "helper" in our Jr High and High School Youth program at church. We have 30 kids in this class. Most of them are from broken homes. NONE of them are still virgins, some not by choice (abuse).

[Saratoga_Mike]

I am a "helper" in our Jr High and High School Youth program at church. We have 30 kids in this class. Most of them are from broken homes. NONE of them are still virgins, some not by choice (abuse).

Box, can you refute any of this from your volunteer work with disadvantaged kids?

[StormChaser]

Originally Posted by StormChaser
I am a "helper" in our Jr High and High School Youth program at church. We have 30 kids in this class. Most of them are from broken homes. NONE of them are still virgins, some not by choice (abuse).


I will say that we do teach these kids that there is a difference between love and sex. That you can have one without the other. To respect their bodies, and their hearts. We find that it's harder when the child is abused.

[boxcar]

Oh, preach it, my brother!

It is all well and good that the bible says do this or do that. In the real world, you might as well be walking around with a clapboard sign that says "Repent! The end is near."

First, stay tuned for the next thread. The bible thumpers, who are apparently so out-of-touch with the "real world" aren't the only Doomers and Gloomers.

Secondly, I take it, then, that you believe the bible is no longer fit for the "real world"? It's unsuited for today's reality? It's too antiquated to be be used for the Rule of Life? If so, what is the rule of life? What do we use? A licked thumb held in the air?

The only ones who are listening are those who would listen. As for the rest, the words are wasted upon them. You will never slow down the sins of the world with preaching, my friend.

The only ones who listen to truth are those who are willing to listen. But to the rest, should we not try to persuade them? And if so, how then should we persuade? With what?

Besides... nobody is saying that parents should not parent.

Of course, they should. But HOW? If the bible is an outdated book for the Rule of Life, then where should Christians tell parents to turn? To secular "How To" books written by the smartest child psychologists on the planet? Or should Christians just keep their mouths shut and mind our business when it comes to social issues? Sorry, David, but The Good Book tells me that all scripture is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and training in righteousness (2Tm 3:16).

The reality is that many children - especially those in the inner city - are without parents that are role models.

So, what are you saying: That scripture can only be beneficial for the advantaged in society? It would seem to me the kind of kids of which you speak would be in more dire need of spiritual instruction, not less.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Box, can you refute any of this from your volunteer work with disadvantaged kids?

But this doesn't apply to every kid in the country. Or this anecdotal evidence, for that matter, wouldn't apply to every disadvantaged kid. Lots of variables enter into this, such as the age of the kid. And not all disadvantaged kids are sexually abused by a parent or even some adult.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

In a perfect world, if we all taught our children abstinence until marriage, then yes that would be great. IF, we as parents were the only people who advised and influenced our children, then yes it would work. But unfortunately our world is not that simple.
Have I taught my children from birth that abstinence is best? YES. Do I back it up with living a Christian lifestyle and showing them how to as well. YES.
But I also teach her how to not have babies, if that comes up. Because last I read, we all fall short of the glory of God. We all make bad choices (except apparently you). So, while I guide my daughter into adulthood, and I help her steer clear of the pitfalls. I am aware that I will not be with her every step of the way. I am also aware, that mr quarterback with the pretty blue eyes.. sometimes has more influence over a young girl's heart and mind then 17 years of good teaching. No I do not belive in "if it feels good then you should do it." No I do not teach that to my children. But I do believe that the more information my child has, the better off she will be.

So, then, why do you teach your daughter to do something (to abstain) that you simultaneously believe she's not going to going to do? I mean...why even make abstinence an option since, according to you, no one practices it?
And how could your own heart be into your "preaching" about abstinence, since you have so little faith in your child that she'll take your instruction seriously?

For that matter, what about your faith in God that he would apply your godly wisdom to your child's heart so that she not stray from the righteous teaching of scripture? So, we have a huge faith issue here also.

And then it seems to me that if you teach the other "safe sex" methods -- if you make those an option to a child -- aren't you giving tacit approval to those methods? Yes, I'm sure you say, "Abstinence is best...BUT...BUT..." And once you offer alternatives, will that not leave the child confused? Would that not be sending mixed signals to the child?

You see for me...this whole issue is a Gospel issue. The Good Book tells me that immoral or impure people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. So, if I had a kid, this would loom very large in the back of mind. Whatever I might teach about the alternatives, there is the danger that once someone opts to go that route, they are sinning. And then the problem becomes: Will they repent of that sin? Or will they just continue in a lifestyle of immorality? Don't forget: A little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump (Gal 5:9).

Boxcar

[Jay Trotter]

blah, blah, blah, blah!

BoxcarChrist, he's on his soapbox once again!:faint: You must be a Soviet plant sent here to reek avock and cause dishormony amongst the troops. I guess nobody told you the Cold War is over. :faint:

http://www.lasentinel.net/UserFiles/File/052611/JasonSoapbox%20copy.jpg

[boxcar]

Christ, he's on his soapbox once again!:faint: You must be a Soviet plant sent here to reek avock and cause dishormony amongst the troops.

The current president of the U.S. has that job sewed up. Besides, I could never compete with him. :lol:

I guess nobody told you the Cold War is over. :faint:

And I suppose no one ever told you that you're a boring drive-by poster who 99.44% of the time adds no useful content to any topic on the OT forum? The dumbest puddy in my house is more interesting than you are.

Boxcar

[Jay Trotter]

And I suppose no one ever told you that you're a boring drive-by poster who 99.44% of the time adds no useful content to any topic on the OT forum? The dumbest puddy in my house is more interesting than you are.

BoxcarOkay Homie! :lol: Go read your bible little man. :faint:

[boxcar]

Okay Homie! :lol: Go read your bible little man. :faint:

I don't know what I'd do without your permission, kid. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Jay Trotter]

I don't know what I'd do without your permission, kid. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Boxcar
James 1:26
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.


One wonders why a man of your stature would even acknowledge a drive by? :lol:

[Dave Schwartz]

Secondly, I take it, then, that you believe the bible is no longer fit for the "real world"? It's unsuited for today's reality? It's too antiquated to be be used for the Rule of Life? If so, what is the rule of life? What do we use? A licked thumb held in the air?


Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I read The Word every day. However, I would add two things for clarification:

1. What makes my life work is not the bible but rather my relationship with God. My experience with "behavior-based" Christians is that they spend a great deal of their lives trying to improve themselves to the point of perfection and the rest of their lives feeling guilty because they always fall short.

2. Beating people over the head with the bible will never change anyone.



The only ones who listen to truth are those who are willing to listen. But to the rest, should we not try to persuade them? And if so, how then should we persuade? With what?


No, we should not. Did God tell you to go forth and fix other people's behaviors? If he did, then by all means do so.

Matthew 7:3
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?


At my house we call this "Plank Theory."


Of course, they should. But HOW? If the bible is an outdated book for the Rule of Life, then where should Christians tell parents to turn? To secular "How To" books written by the smartest child psychologists on the planet? Or should Christians just keep their mouths shut and mind our business when it comes to social issues? Sorry, David, but The Good Book tells me that all scripture is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and training in righteousness (2Tm 3:16).


IMHO, Christians should not tell non-Christians to read the bible. Christians should tell non-Christians how to become Christians and let God tell them how to live their lives.



So, what are you saying: That scripture can only be beneficial for the advantaged in society? It would seem to me the kind of kids of which you speak would be in more dire need of spiritual instruction, not less.


I am what is commonly referred to as a "Four-and-a-Half-Point-Calvinist." (I would bet that you know what that means.) For those who are not as well-read as you (LOL - of which I am one) the short version of that is that I believe God calls those that he chooses and that not everyone was meant to be a believer of Christ.

I also do not feel that whether or not someone becomes a Believer is important to me. If God wants me to "share the Gospel" with someone He will:

1. Put me together with them at an appropriate time and place. (That means that I do not have to thump my beliefs at every person that crosses my path.)

2. Give them an open heart to hear the message. (That means they are in a place where they recognize a need for something; They have been properly prepared.)

3. Give me the proper heart in that moment to share the message in a non-condemning and welcoming way. (That means the whole process will go much better if I can remove myself from the equation and let Him do the talking.)



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Jay Trotter]

Dave, you make too much sense! Unfortunately, your going to be hit back with a long diatribe explaining why every single one of your points is in error.

Those with open hearts do hear your message though. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Dave, I posted my reply to your post here on the "Religious" thread.

Boxcar

[Dahoss9698]

Then stay tuned. PP will make its debut soon at an elementary school near you.
After all, why would a free society want to put a damper on sexual freedom at any age? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Try for a second (if it's possible) to not be a raving lunatic. Seeing that there is a problem (large number of teen pregnancies at this school) and trying to do something positive about it doesn't mean that planned parenthood is going to be in elementary schools.

It means it will be at that specific high school. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. But there is no need to make gross exaggerations when you have no logical argument. It just makes you look more foolish than normal. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Try for a second (if it's possible) to not be a raving lunatic. Seeing that there is a problem (large number of teen pregnancies at this school) and trying to do something positive about it doesn't mean that planned parenthood is going to be in elementary schools.

20 years ago who would have thought they'd be in high schools?

It means it will be at that specific high school. Will it work? Maybe, maybe not. But there is no need to make gross exaggerations when you have no logical argument. It just makes you look more foolish than normal. :ThmbUp:

What obviously doesn't work is your brain. All these "social experiments" start out small, then grow. Look at Medicare, then Medicaid, now ObamaCare. Pull your head out of the sand already and don't forget to de-flea afterward. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar

[TJDave]

20 years ago who would have thought they'd be in high schools?
Boxcar

If PP had been handing out birth control in high schools 20 years ago there would now be a whole lot less stupid parents...and their stupider children.

[BlueShoe]

As I remember from the time that I spent in SoCal Roosevelt High is located in a heavily gang-infested area of East LA. I imagine that the amout of teen pregnancies is astronimical, so maybe it will help.
The students at Roosevelt HS are virtually all Latino, mostly either the children of illegal aliens or brought here illegally with their parents, with some children of long time residents. The out of wedlock birth rate for Latinas, not just in LA but all over, is more than 50%, not as high as for Black births, but higher than for non Hispanic White out of wedlock births, and much higher that of Asian women.

[Dahoss9698]

20 years ago who would have thought they'd be in high schools?
50 years ago there were still segregated schools. Times change. The world is drastically different now than it was 5,10,15,20,etc years ago. It isn't 1950 anymore. Come join us in 2012. But, again we are talking about ONE school, for a specific reason.



What obviously doesn't work is your brain. All these "social experiments" start out small, then grow. Look at Medicare, then Medicaid, now ObamaCare. Pull your head out of the sand already and don't forget to de-flea afterward. :ThmbUp:

Boxcar
This is dumb, even for you.

[Dahoss9698]

mostly either the children of illegal aliens or brought here illegally with their parents, with some children of long time residents.

Silly question I know, but how do you know this to be true?

[Robert Goren]

All this talk about parental responsibility is great. Now comes the real question. How do you get parents to be responsible? And what do you with the childern of parents that refuse to be responsible? There are some real lowlifes out there and it seems they all have kids.

[BlueShoe]

Silly question I know, but how do you know this to be true?
First of all, demographics, pure and simple. Enter RHS in Google maps and take a look at it's location. That area is virtually entirely Latino, with only a minor presence of persons of a different background. Next, I live in SoCal, and have called the greater LA Metro area my home since childhood. While I now reside 20 miles east, am very familiar with that whole area, so trust me on this one.

[StormChaser]

[QUOTE=boxcar]So, then, why do you teach your daughter to do something (to abstain) that you simultaneously believe she's not going to going to do? I mean...why even make abstinence an option since, according to you, no one practices it?
And how could your own heart be into your "preaching" about abstinence, since you have so little faith in your child that she'll take your instruction seriously?

My daughter is one of those abuse kids. She was abused for 5 years. And while I do my best to remind her that she is not a product of her abuse, I understand the way the enemy speaks to her. So she has come a long way, She was lost, but now she is leading a faithful life. But for a while the enemy had a strong hold on her telling her that she deserved the abuse.. and that all she was good for was the pleasure of men. But with the help of some good people, she has come full circle.
I have full faith that God will heal her, I just know it has taken a long time.

[StormChaser]

You see for me...this whole issue is a Gospel issue. The Good Book tells me that immoral or impure people will not inherit the Kingdom of God. So, if I had a kid, this would loom very large in the back of mind. Whatever I might teach about the alternatives, there is the danger that once someone opts to go that route, they are sinning. And then the problem becomes: Will they repent of that sin? Or will they just continue in a lifestyle of immorality? Don't forget: A little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump (Gal 5:9).


You see for me... this is a Gospel issue. The Good book tells me that if I confess with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in my heart I am saved. The Good book also tells me that I am not saved by my own work. The Good book tells me that Jesus died for my sin. This doesn't mean that I can go out and live a sinful life, but that I am washed clean of the sin I do commit. I wonder.. Boxcar... Do you belong to Westburo Baptist?

What amazes me the most about this whole post... is the sentance... "IF I HAD A KID" so you don't have children? (probably a good thing).

[anotherCAfan]

First of all, demographics, pure and simple. Enter RHS in Google maps and take a look at it's location. That area is virtually entirely Latino, with only a minor presence of persons of a different background. Next, I live in SoCal, and have called the greater LA Metro area my home since childhood. While I now reside 20 miles east, am very familiar with that whole area, so trust me on this one.
I can attest to what you are saying.

One issue that hasn't been brought up: giving girls "the pill" is maybe worse than giving barrier methods of contraception to both genders. Why? Those barrier methods are better at blocking STIs than "the pill", and it is easy to forget to take those pills.

This is not an ideal situation, but what else would work? It is akin to continually voting for Maxine Waters.

[Dahoss9698]

First of all, demographics, pure and simple. Enter RHS in Google maps and take a look at it's location. That area is virtually entirely Latino, with only a minor presence of persons of a different background. Next, I live in SoCal, and have called the greater LA Metro area my home since childhood. While I now reside 20 miles east, am very familiar with that whole area, so trust me on this one.

In other words....you don't, you are just assuming.

I mean sure, the area is almost entirely latino, but I was curious how you knew that most of the students at this high school had parents who were illegal or brought here illegally.

[StormChaser]

Originally Posted by boxcar
20 years ago who would have thought they'd be in high schools?
Boxcar

um.. Boxcar... do you live in a cave?

PP or some version of it has been around since the early 1900s. So sorry to burst that little bubble of yours. 20 years ago, pp was going around to schools giving lectures and handing out condoms. (sorry does that word offend you?) Sex ed has been taught in schools since the 60's except for apparently in the Cave you live in.

Does that make it ok to go out and have sex. No.
But before you advise on how to raise children. Have one of your own. And if you don't have children. Maybe THAT is a sign from God that you weren't meant to be a parent.

[Jay Trotter]

He's shlepped back into the Religous thead......we're not worthy! :lol:

[StormChaser]

He's shlepped back into the Religous thead......we're not worthy! :lol:


Good.