Belmont Day, possible strike looms

[GARY Z]

IBEW lOCAL 3 , whose workers include the maintenance wokers and
gate crew has approved its workers to go on strike Friday and
Saturday,Belmont Day

How could these negotiations not have been met since the Racino
pumped $$$ into NYRA?

While I'm sure union demands will be met, this situation happening
days before the Belmont Stakes speaks legends about
NYRA.

[jk3521]

If I'm not mistaken , wasn"t there a strike by maintenance workers one other Belmont Stakes day?

[Tom]

Typical union tactics - no one matters but themselves.

[aaron]

According to articles in today's newspaper,the unions are threatening to strike due to lack of a contract. I am sure some kind of deal will be made,but the nonsense never stops in NY.
The one day that should be great becomes a political case. Why wasn't a contract agreed to before the Belmont Stakes ?

[Saratoga_Mike]

According to articles in today's newspaper,the unions are threatening to strike due to lack of a contract. I am sure some kind of deal will be made,but the nonsense never stops in NY.
The one day that should be great becomes a political case. Why wasn't a contract agreed to before the Belmont Stakes ?

If they strike on Belmont Day, they should all be summarily fired.

[sovereign]

Heck! Give me the keys! I'll drive the truck that rakes and waters the track!

[PaceAdvantage]

Threads merged.

[Tom]

According to articles in today's newspaper,the unions are threatening to strike due to lack of a contract. I am sure some kind of deal will be made,but the nonsense never stops in NY.
The one day that should be great becomes a political case. Why wasn't a contract agreed to before the Belmont Stakes ?

Probably because the union is looking to use the occasion to force them to agree unreasonable demands.

There are TWO parties involved here, three if you consider the state.
But you blame only NYRA?

[aaron]

Probably because the union is looking to use the occasion to force them to agree unreasonable demands.

There are TWO parties involved here, three if you consider the state.
But you blame only NYRA?
I didn't blame anyone. I just stated what was happening.

[Robert Goren]

They have working without a contract for over year. Like they did on everything else the previous management just sat on its hands until the slot money appeared. From The USAToday article, it is all about when certain cutbacks would take effect. You just knew the way things were going with NY racing, there would be something come up right before or during the Belmont Stakes. There is no way that NYRA didn't know the union would strike now. They should have had this settled long a go. I know the right wing will blame the union but seems to me they have already gone the extra mile by working over a year without a contract.

[Robert Goren]

Probably because the union is looking to use the occasion to force them to agree unreasonable demands.

There are TWO parties involved here, three if you consider the state.
But you blame only NYRA?What are those unreasonable demands that the union is asking for?

[cj's dad]

Strikes are called at opportune times, not for managements convenience.

Similarly, lockouts occur at managements discretion.

[OTM Al]

Strikes are called at opportune times, not for managements convenience.

Similarly, lockouts occur at managements discretion.

Truly they never would have better leverage. It's how the game is played. The root of this involves OT pay. As reported in the Daily News today, the old union contract had the work week based on Monday through Friday, which means all Saturdays and Sundays were OT pay. NYRA wants them to shift to a Wednesday to Sunday contract (which is the schedule of almost all the workers there) and the union doesn't want to. And that's what it comes down to at the root.

[Tom]

It comes down to the unions dis-respecting the racing fans - customers - who pay their salaries.

Screw the unions.

[mostpost]

Strikes are called at opportune times, not for managements convenience.

Similarly, lockouts occur at managements discretion.

You are right. Far right, but here you are also correct. Unions call strikes when they will have the maximum impact. There is no point to having a strike on Monday and Tuesday. Maybe I am wrong but I read this as being a strike only on Friday and Saturday; a strike to demonstrate the unions power.

[mostpost]

Probably because the union is looking to use the occasion to force them to agree unreasonable demands.

There are TWO parties involved here, three if you consider the state.
But you blame only NYRA?NYRA is demanding that the union give up 30% in wages and benefits.
]30%!!!!!!![/SIZE]
And you think the unions are making unreasonable demands. Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

[mostpost]

What are those unreasonable demands that the union is asking for?
To not have their salaries cut by 30%.

[Tom]

30% should put them about where the average worker is at.
A bit higher, but 30% sounds fair.

Considering they are probably 50% over-compensated as it is.

[tzipi]

Just saw this! Damn. I hope it goes off. Just saw Bosserts column whether we agree with him or not. I'm not in the room with these two sides, so I can't damn one over the other yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/blame-nyra-misses-shot-immortality-belmont-stakes-article-1.1089931

[OTM Al]

Just saw this! Damn. I hope it goes off. Just saw Bosserts column whether we agree with him or not. I'm not in the room with these two sides, so I can't damn one over the other yet.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/blame-nyra-misses-shot-immortality-belmont-stakes-article-1.1089931

You know, Bossert is credited on this one too, but at least there are some facts in it. I will assume he did not write that part....

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/york-horse-racing-association-blasts-self-serving-union-labor-dispute-threatens-belmont-stakes-article-1.1089915?localLinksEnabled=false

[tzipi]

You know, Bossert is credited on this one too, but at least there are some facts in it. I will assume he did not write that part....

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/york-horse-racing-association-blasts-self-serving-union-labor-dispute-threatens-belmont-stakes-article-1.1089915?localLinksEnabled=false

Yeah there was two articles today in the paper. Both of them together. One main article and Bosserts right next to it. Though were both linked there. Man, Bossert has been on a NYRA rampage of late.

[mannyberrios]

Back stretch workers at Belmont Park could go on strike this Friday . Is there any truth to this?

[iceknight]

NYRA is demanding that the union give up 30% in wages and benefits.
]30%!!!!!!![/SIZE]
And you think the unions are making unreasonable demands. Unbelievable. :rolleyes:

They are "working 70 hour workweeks" it seems- when in reality they are working the same 40 hours, but some of those hours fall on Fri/Sat/Sun.

Also did you read this?"Before he was fired last month ahead of Cuomo’s takeover, NYRA President Charles Hayward said 18 members of the union make more than $100,000 a year.

Erikson countered that the figure is based on a 70-hour workweek. If built-in overtime is stripped out, the workers would take a 30% pay cut, he said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/york-horse-racing-association-blasts-self-serving-union-labor-dispute-threatens-belmont-stakes-article-1.1089915#ixzz1wxJXWHJl

I am not in a union. What is your disclosure?

[fmolf]

Back stretch workers at Belmont Park could go on strike this Friday . Is there any truth to this?
Yes there is...they are working without a contract for 2 yrs now.Not backstretch workers but maintenance workers including the starting gate loaders.A mediator is meeting with both sides tomorrow.

[mostpost]

Are the NYRA tracks open for simulcasting on their dark days like they are here in Illinois?

[tzipi]

I really hope both sides come to fair agreements with eachother and we can move on to the Belmont Stakes. Racing anf NY can't afford to lose this.

[bigmack]

a strike to demonstrate the unions power.
Let's take a gander at how much power they have.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/NowayinhelllabordisputewillaffectBelmontStakesunio nsaysNewYorkNewsNewYorkBreakingNewsNYCHeadlines.pn g

There you have it. Bupkis.

[elhelmete]

They are "working 70 hour workweeks" it seems- when in reality they are working the same 40 hours, but some of those hours fall on Fri/Sat/Sun.

Also did you read this?"Before he was fired last month ahead of Cuomo’s takeover, NYRA President Charles Hayward said 18 members of the union make more than $100,000 a year.

Erikson countered that the figure is based on a 70-hour workweek. If built-in overtime is stripped out, the workers would take a 30% pay cut, he said.


This.

One has to wonder how the union initially got the workweek defined as Monday through Friday when weekend racing seems to always have been the norm. I wonder if they tried to get normal work hours defined as 2am to 10am as well... :rolleyes:

[jerry-g]

They have working without a contract for over year. Like they did on everything else the previous management just sat on its hands until the slot money appeared. From The USAToday article, it is all about when certain cutbacks would take effect. You just knew the way things were going with NY racing, there would be something come up right before or during the Belmont Stakes. There is no way that NYRA didn't know the union would strike now. They should have had this settled long a go. I know the right wing will blame the union but seems to me they have already gone the extra mile by working over a year without a contract.

Robert you are right on with this one. They deserve a contract. I come from a family of workers, not shirkers. If it wasn't for the union the coal miners in Southern Illinois would still be borrowing their food from the company store and never afford to pay it off. We need people adequately paid in this business so we can have harmony in racing.

[Robert Fischer]

looks like both sides may negotiate for their own gain...

[Strike The Gold]

Truly they never would have better leverage. It's how the game is played. The root of this involves OT pay. As reported in the Daily News today, the old union contract had the work week based on Monday through Friday, which means all Saturdays and Sundays were OT pay. NYRA wants them to shift to a Wednesday to Sunday contract (which is the schedule of almost all the workers there) and the union doesn't want to. And that's what it comes down to at the root.

This is my first post on this board although I have been reading the board for years. This topic stirred me up enough to post. I live in NY so unions are a way of life, especially if one has kids in public schools. The union needs to get realistic. Times change. i understand that they don't want the definition of their work week to change but their work week is Weds-Sun, no? No one wants a pay cut. would they rather lose their jobs? I'm not in a union. NY is a work at will state. I have been with my employer for 15 years and I can walk in to work tomorrow & be job discontinued. Pension? they had one when I got there but they went to a cash balance plan so now the burden to save is on me. Rising healthcare premiums are killing everyone - I kick in approx 5% of my salary for premiums & that's before deductibles. Don't even get me started on the teachers union. Times change. Unions need to change as well. Nothing lasts forever. Maybe the union should say "for all those years we were getting paid OT for weekends, well it was good while it lasted"

Thanks for reading. I'm anticipating a great race and although I won't be betting on IHA, I'm certainly rooting for him. I think he has guts and hopefully, he'll get it done. Racing needs it & NY needs it as well.

[Greyfox]

This is my first post on this board although I have been reading the board for years. This topic stirred me up enough to post. I live in NY so unions are a way of life, especially if one has kids in public schools. The union needs to get realistic. Times change..

Welcome aboard Strike the Gold. Good post.:ThmbUp:
Times change.
There are many unemployed Americans who would love to load horses in a gate just to put bread on the table.

[anotherCAfan]

Welcome aboard Strike the Gold. Good post.:ThmbUp:
Times change.
There are many unemployed Americans who would love to load horses in a gate just to put bread on the table.
This issue hits kind of closer than most to me (though that is irrelevant to the discussion). This reminds me of just how many jobs there are at a racetrack -- from the gate workers, to the paddock judge, to the hotwalkers, and many more. That is why I hope the industry can survive. (Of course, to do so it must lower takeout and what not, although that is a discussion for another thread.)

[5k-claim]

Welcome aboard Strike the Gold. Good post.:ThmbUp:
Times change.
There are many unemployed Americans who would love to load horses in a gate just to put bread on the table.I am hoping you mean unemployed Americans with thoroughbred experience.

That isn't exactly a 'walk in off the streets' kind of job. I am partial to guys in there who know what they are doing.

.

[Strike The Gold]

I really don't understand the business of horse racing - where does purse $$ come from, etc, etc but, I think some of the slot money is being diverted away from education today in NY to fund racing. With all the BS going on in NY today some politician may propose putting all slot money to education and that would kill racing in NY. while that may be sad, I can see the need to funnel more resources towards educating our youth. The timing of a potential strike stinks but that's the whole point I guess.

[cj's dad]

You are right. Far right, but here you are also correct. Unions call strikes when they will have the maximum impact. There is no point to having a strike on Monday and Tuesday. Maybe I am wrong but I read this as being a strike only on Friday and Saturday; a strike to demonstrate the unions power.

Mostie- you are partially right but not that right. I am a union dues guy for most of my 25 years in the AFL-CIO. I sat on grievance/negotiating committees for years. I know both sides of the issues. I am not as far right as you may think. I simply think that most unions have gotten to the point of not protecting workers rights but of workers who do not want to contribute to the success of the company that pays their salary.

[Greyfox]

That isn't exactly a 'walk in off the streets' kind of job. I am partial to guys in there who know what they are doing.

.

We're all partial to guys who know what they are doing.
Some minimal skills and physical ability are required.
I can think of umpteen other jobs though that require more skills and more physical ability though.

[iceknight]

I am hoping you mean unemployed Americans with thoroughbred experience.

That isn't exactly a 'walk in off the streets' kind of job. I am partial to guys in there who know what they are doing.

.
Sure, and those guys can continue to enjoy their skills after all racetracks shut down due to their behavior adding to other troubles.

Not that nyra head honchos were not making wayy too much money for doing nothing (esp on takeout etc) but come on, really - if you work 40 hrs you get paid for that. It's not like missing church on sat evening is what makes these guys ask for time+half..

[5k-claim]

Sure, and those guys can continue to enjoy their skills after all racetracks shut down due to their behavior adding to other troubles.

Not that nyra head honchos were not making wayy too much money for doing nothing (esp on takeout etc) but come on, really - if you work 40 hrs you get paid for that. It's not like missing church on sat evening is what makes these guys ask for time+half..I don't have any idea about the strike. I never really thought about people in this industry getting overtime for "weekends", either. This is a 7 day per week lifestyle. There are no "weekends."

I am just saying that I want a guy in the gate with my horse who knows what the hell he is doing. Not someone with "minimal skills and physical ability" that Greyfox showed how to be an assistant starter in a week.

.

[Greyfox]

. Not someone with "minimal skills and physical ability" that Greyfox showed how to be an assistant starter in a week.

.
:rolleyes:
So you think that when that job posting comes up it is stated
- "Only People with Thoroughbred Experience Need Apply."

[Tom]

Of course they are entitled to fair compensation.
And if they shut down on the biggest weekend of the year, that amount is $0.00.

[breeze]

We're all partial to guys who know what they are doing.
Some minimal skills and physical ability are required.
I can think of umpteen other jobs though that require more skills and more physical ability though.

It takes a lot of skill,physical ability and guts to work in the gate. I owe my life to many a man on a gate crew. Those guys get beat up all the time and are always nursing an injury or two or three or........

Anyone who's job requires them to put their life on the line to save another should be well respected.

[breeze]

:rolleyes:
So you think that when that job posting comes up it is stated
- "Only People with Thoroughbred Experience Need Apply."

If they do not know TB's then they will be "back gate shutters" for a long time. Most join the gate crew from the backside not a want ad.

I am amazed that you think they would pluck people off the street to load a racehorse into the gate.

[Greyfox]

If they do not know TB's then they will be "back gate shutters" for a long time. Most join the gate crew from the backside not a want ad.

I am amazed that you think they would pluck people off the street to load a racehorse into the gate.


I worked at the barns of a race track for a short while as a young person just off the street, but never on a gate.
My goals in life weren't focussed on working for a race track.
I'm fairly convinced though, that when I was younger, it wouldn't have taken a lot of preparation to help on the gates and then later become an assistant at starting.

[Dahoss9698]

Not that nyra head honchos were not making wayy too much money for doing nothing (esp on takeout etc) but come on, really - if you work 40 hrs you get paid for that. It's not like missing church on sat evening is what makes these guys ask for time+half..

Care to elaborate more on this?

[classhandicapper]

Someone should have realized that striking on Belmont day was going to be used as a negotiating tactic by the union and addressed this months ago to make sure it both could not happen and that negotiations were done in a more balanced set of conditions.

[Tom]

Only one group here is responsible for this threat- the union.
End of story.

If NYRA is to blame for anything, it is that they may have assumed that the union workers had any integrity at all. Apparently, they do not.

[Grits]

I am hoping you mean unemployed Americans with thoroughbred experience.

That isn't exactly a 'walk in off the streets' kind of job. I am partial to guys in there who know what they are doing.

.

I would imagine the best gate man in the country (former NYRA crew chief) Bob Duncan might disagree with you gentleman that believe one walks into this "no brainer job" and does it well.

Be interesting to see how well some of you safely handle 1200 lb animals. :faint:

[classhandicapper]

If NYRA is to blame for anything, it is that they may have assumed that the union workers had any integrity at all. Apparently, they do not.

I am a special case.

I have both been in a union and hated it when I was. Thank God it didn't last long. :lol:

To expect a union to be anything other than totally self centered and incapable of thinking past the next 5 minutes is to not understand unions.

Most unions and their membership behave like they are essentially clueless about business. They are also way too short term oriented in their thinking. That's not to say that many members aren't great people, they just often commit economic suicide because they apparently often don't understand the implications of what they want or what they are doing.

So if you have to deal with one, you have to build that into your thinking.

[Marshall Bennett]

Would be a shame if a strike postpones the race for any length of time. Certainly wouldn't do the game any good. It hurt baseball for several years and a lot of fans never returned. On the flip side a 2 week delay would only enhance IHA's chances with the added rest, but doubt anyone wants that.
Wonder if they'd stick an asterisk (*) next to his name if he wins TC? :)

[Greyfox]

A lot of people are travelling to New York this week mainly for this race.
Postponing the race is not on for them.

[burnsy]

i was a union man for years. up until i got sick and could not do the job. i know people have their beefs with the public employee unions in NY but the trades are a whole different animal. i was a sheetmetal worker and most of the company owners were once union workers...thats how the trades work. we made great money and i had great benefits...i gladly paid my dues because when i worked in a non-union shop i did not get squat. NYRA (the management) should of negotiated a contract about two years ago, instead they went with some temporary deal that expired months ago. when you blow off the members this is the result...they will use muscle to get a contract. i sort of don't understand people dissing unions because without one you most likely will make wal mart wages and benefits. thats fine if you don't have a skill or do a dangerous job but look at recent history. wages have been stagnant for decades......unless you are in a union...you most likely get no pension and crappy bene's. people are so dumb that they would work for slave wages just to say they have a job. thats the "scab" attitude of the country right now and its screwing workers and the economy. i hate to give an economics lesson but the best years in this country were when the workers were in a union. when people don't have a contract, they are at the mercy of the employers and stock holders.....look how good thats working out. the strength of our entire economy is dependant on "middle class" consumption. in other words if 1 million families buy a ford car its better than 3 rich fools buying a new rolls royce. are some of the unions a problem? of course they are. but before unions, there were kids working in factories for slave wages and slave hours...if a kid lost a hand, they threw another one in there. people worked 7 days a week with no weekend...i guess some people like being slaves because they sure don't stop and think. do you want to live like a its china or the USA? not worried about myself because i was smart enough to get into the trades(sheetmetal workers) union...if i didn't i would of started my own company like my dad did because i definetly would not work for the crap they try to pay now or the tactics they use to make it look like its unions fault. NYRA execs gave themselves a big raise...its one of the things that got those two canned because (at first) they refused to disclose it....do you really think they give a crap about the guy holding a 1200 pound horse in the gate? from my dealings in these things...i can tell you they don't care...they will pay minimum wage if they can get away with it...and i can prove that as fact. people should really look around and think about how things are going. are you foolish enough to think that workers are asking for too much these days? because they sure don't get much for the work they do....and the best thing is working people are being "brainwashed" into this mentality as our economy goes down the toilet. hint: the housing market will never rebound. these houses will be empty forever.....you can't buy a new car or a house making 8 to 11 bucks an hour......people!

[Jens]

Outstanding post burnsy!!!

[classhandicapper]

burnsy,

I'm very sympathetic to your values, but you did a great job of making MY POINT.

What you are saying is that you want what YOU THINK YOU DESERVE instead of what the market will bear. If 10 years from now the company can't remain profitable and compete, the shareholders lose their shirts, and all the union members lose their jobs that's OK with you because you got yours now.

EXCEPT you aren't even considering the second part of that equation (the long term downside).

To have a viable middle class with good jobs, you first have to have a viable business.

These are NOT the decades where the US dominated industry and companies were only competing domestically.

This a time where competition is global; cities, states, the Federal government and many unionized companies are tapped out and going under etc...

We are not competing in an environment that will bear excessive benefits, OT pay etc.. where the prices of many thing have to be higher just to cover union costs and all non union workers have to pay more. Now people just buy the imports and the unionized shops go away.

[Greyfox]

Outstanding post burnsy!!!

It may be a good post.
However, I was going cross-eyed after 3 lines as burnsy never capitalized the beginning each sentence.
Posters who insist on sending their messages to this board in lower case letters do themselves a disservice.

[GaryG]

In a free market economy every worker would get exactly what he is worth. I fail to see how anyone could ask for more. If a worker wants to earn more money he needs to make himself more valuable and it will all shake out.

[PhantomOnTour]

Would be a shame if a strike postpones the race for any length of time. Certainly wouldn't do the game any good. It hurt baseball for several years and a lot of fans never returned. On the flip side a 2 week delay would only enhance IHA's chances with the added rest, but doubt anyone wants that.
Wonder if they'd stick an asterisk (*) next to his name if he wins TC? :)
There is 0% chance that this race gets postponed due to the possible strike.
A gate crew and all necessary employees will be there on Saturday, whether they are the regulars or replacements.
I am not concerned in the least bit that this will disrupt the Belmont Stks and undercard races.

[thaskalos]

burnsy,

I'm very sympathetic to your values, but you did a great job of making MY POINT.

What you are saying is that you want what YOU THINK YOU DESERVE instead of what the market will bear. If 10 years from now the company can't remain profitable and compete, the shareholders lose their shirts, and all the union members lose their jobs that's OK with you because you got yours now.

EXCEPT you aren't even considering the second part of that equation (the long term downside).

To have a viable middle class with good jobs, you first have to have a viable business.

These are NOT the decades where the US dominated industry and companies were only competing domestically.

This a time where competition is global; cities, states, the Federal government and many unionized companies are tapped out and going under etc...

We are not competing in an environment that will bear excessive benefits, OT pay etc.. where the prices of many thing have to be higher just to cover union costs and all non union workers have to pay more. Now people just buy the imports and the unionized shops go away.
No, Classhandicapper...I think you are misunderstanding the point that he is trying to make.

What I think he is saying is that the employers, as a group, are easily as greedy as the unions are...and, IMO, he is exactly right.

You may be right when you say that the unions are greedy and shortsighted...but the employers are exactly the same.

As a worker, it's not a matter of getting what YOU THINK YOU DESERVE; it's a matter of trying to avoid a situation where your wages are frozen -- or even reduced -- while you work without benefits of any kind...soon finding yourself unable to support your family...even as you watch your employers moving into multi-million dollar homes.

[5k-claim]

I would imagine the best gate man in the country (former NYRA crew chief) Bob Duncan might disagree with you gentleman that believe one walks into this "no brainer job" and does it well. You are exactly right, Grits. But don't worry, that guy writing those posts would not have been in the gate.

What cannot be faked is experience. And it does take experience to read the horses and deal with the events, often quite dangerous, that happen in the gate. Without experience, all of that is going to be happening at around 100mph.

Another group that deserves more credit is the valets. A calm, skilled, experienced valet can make all the difference in the world in keeping a big blow-up in the paddock with a psycho horse from turning into an enormous blow-up.

.

[classhandicapper]

No, Classhandicapper...I think you are misunderstanding the point that he is trying to make.

What I think he is saying is that the employers, as a group, are easily as greedy as the unions are...and, IMO, he is exactly right.

You may be right when you say that the unions are greedy and shortsighted...but the employers are exactly the same.

As a worker, it's not a matter of getting what YOU THINK YOU DESERVE; it's a matter of trying to avoid a situation where your wages are frozen -- or even reduced -- while you work without benefits of any kind...soon finding yourself unable to support your family...even as you watch your employers moving into multi-million dollar homes.

I understood what he was saying. That's why I said I am sympathetic to his values (and concerns).

But the reality is that you won't find many unionized companies gushing with profits/high profit margins or cities/states gushing with budget surpluses so you can argue that they are taking advantage of workers.

What you will typically find is organizations that are shrinking, in bankruptcy, on the verge of bankruptcy, only surviving because they moved production overseas, etc... and workers that are making more money/with greater benefits than private sector workers doing similar work.

The high profit margins are at the non union shops not bogged down with unions.

If you want to argue that executive compensation at at many firms is too high, I would definitely agree with you.

If you want to argue that many shareholders are also greedy and short term oriented, I would definitely agree with you.

But IMO the MAJOR problem is the many billions of dollars of unfunded and overly generous pension and health care benefits promised to unions years ago on top of salaries that are higher than non union workers get for similar work and responsibility. That's what's crippling many companies and cities/states. And the higher costs come right out of the pockets of non union workers and tax payers.

I've been a huge defender of NYCOTB from some of the scapegoating in the NYRA threads, but it's obvious that paying clerks more than $40 an hour on Sunday on top of the most ridiculously generous benefits plan I have ever heard of was a contributing factor to its demise. Even the union eventually figured that out and made massive concessions. So if you were an early OTB worker, you made out like a bandit for awhile. Now you are unemployed, lost your health care benefits, and are on unemployment, medicaid, and food stamps. I'm not so sure getting paid $40 helped them and if they built their life around that expectation, they are surely screwed.

They should have been getting $15 an hour (or similar salaries to bank tellers for example) and either built their lives around that salary, went back to school, got some training etc... and got a different job. It's hard, really hard, but it's a different world now.

[Robert Fischer]

I think it's a complete joke that some express hostility towards unions and organized workers...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion (even a hostile one), but these corporate officers are big boys, they can handle themselves. Guess I just don't see the need for working people to police and "attack"(huge stretch i know) each other.

I'm well aware that unions are big boys as well, and aware of who they are ultimately looking out for(hint it's more self-interest than working man interest...). Well aware that some of the tactics are unacceptable or even criminal. Just don't see a strike as one of them. I believe there's a (modest) amount above "what people are worth" that quality workers should earn so they can make a living and raise a family.

God bless America.

Justice for Trayvon.

[elhelmete]

I believe there's a (modest) amount above "what people are worth" that quality workers should earn so they can make a living and raise a family.

Agree wholeheartedly. I hate the downward push on wages. I always ask, rhetorically, "how little do you want the pilot of YOUR airplane to make?!"

That said, there's the issue of means.

If the only way for a worker to make a quality salary is to take advantage of a gimmick that defines the workweek as to include 2 (sometimes three? I'm not totally up on NYRA dates) dark days for the tracks, that's not fair. Sure the track is open for training and track personnel are needed on those days, I get it, but i can't imagine it's the same level as on racedays.

So now the NYRA is caught in a bind where I'm sure hourly rates they pay workers are great for a guy who works 24 hours at straight time and 16 at time and a half or better (I don't know the rules), but not so great on an annual basis for a 40-hr straight time week. Take home pay is all that matters to the worker (as it should, I suppose). Backwashing an appropriate annual salary into a 40-hr straight time rate would cause the rates to jump considerably.

[Tom]

In a free market economy every worker would get exactly what he is worth. I fail to see how anyone could ask for more. If a worker wants to earn more money he needs to make himself more valuable and it will all shake out.

Halleluja!

And don't deny other people their rights to get your way - which exactly what this threat was all about - threaten the biggest day in racing in 34 years for a small group of people to get the way - that is the mark a worthless human being, no matter how hard he work.

[FenceBored]

Because they threatened to strike, well it's all over now.
Belmont Park (http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/racetracks/6/belmont-park) workers have struck a tentative labor deal with the New York Racing Association to head off a possible strike on the eve of a Triple Crown bid, a union official said June 6.
Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/70363/nyra-union-reach-tentative-agreement#ixzz1x2X8tCSJ

[classhandicapper]

I want to be clear that I am not hostile to unions, union workers, or union workers' right to strike. I was just describing the reality of the world we live in and why IMO they are getting killed now and it's going to get even worse for government union workers in the future.

I personally HATED when I worked for a union, but that's a different story.

I worked in a union shop for for 3 1/2 years.

At that place, promotions, raises, salaries etc... were all based on seniority and connections instead of merit. The rules also incentivized laziness. That was a horrible environment for "me".

Some people busted their asses, worked quickly, did high quality work, were always at work on time (or early), productive as soon as they got there, never took undo breaks, etc... and other people looked at the rules and went to the limit of what they could get away with so they worked as little as possible.

Then when raises and promotions came along, they went to "who knew who at the union", the "guy that was there the longest" etc.. instead of the brightest, most responsible, hardest working, highest quality producer etc...

Some people are comfortable with that. I hated it an think it hurt the company badly over the long haul.

[breeze]

I worked at the barns of a race track for a short while as a young person just off the street, but never on a gate.
My goals in life weren't focussed on working for a race track.
I'm fairly convinced though, that when I was younger, it wouldn't have taken a lot of preparation to help on the gates and then later become an assistant at starting.


Did you work long enough to even hold the shank on a 2yr old? Or did you never get past stall mucking. Your response speaks to how little you know about racehorses.

Tell me oh "I worked the backside for a short while so know all there is to know" one, what would you do with a horse that tends to sit? one that flips? one that likes to dive under? one that always crosses their hind feet? etc etc

What body language would tip you off that a horse was preparing to do any of the above? I know by your posts that you could not even lead a fractious horse much less handle one in the gate.

A good gate crew saves lives. You,sir,should respect that and not speak of which you know so very little.

[thespaah]

IBEW lOCAL 3 , whose workers include the maintenance wokers and
gate crew has approved its workers to go on strike Friday and
Saturday,Belmont Day

How could these negotiations not have been met since the Racino
pumped $$$ into NYRA?

While I'm sure union demands will be met, this situation happening
days before the Belmont Stakes speaks legends about
NYRA.
Unions are rapidly becoming most unpopular.
This latest piece of news adds gasoline to that fire.
I say, go right ahead IBEW....Then try to find support for your organization.
If I were King of the NYRA, I would invite the union to my office. Tell them here are your choices. Accept this proposal or be replaced. Strike, and your workers will be in the union hall. They won't be here. Permanently.

[thespaah]

According to articles in today's newspaper,the unions are threatening to strike due to lack of a contract. I am sure some kind of deal will be made,but the nonsense never stops in NY.
The one day that should be great becomes a political case. Why wasn't a contract agreed to before the Belmont Stakes ?
Perhaps NYRA, like many other businesses will no longer be held at gunpoint over union demands.
Unions no longer have the clout they believe they have.
Unions are a business. And as such a one business has the right to refuse to business with another.
That would be my tactic. Tell the IBEW "we no longer wish to do business with you. Bye."

[Greyfox]

Tell me oh "I worked the backside for a short while so know all there is to know" one, what would you do with a horse that tends to sit? one that flips? one that likes to dive under? one that always crosses their hind feet? etc etc

.

Run like hell. :lol:

Shanku very much for your kind remarks.
(By the way, I never said that "I know all there is to know." But I've read enough to know a bit about you.;) )

[thespaah]

They have working without a contract for over year. Like they did on everything else the previous management just sat on its hands until the slot money appeared. From The USAToday article, it is all about when certain cutbacks would take effect. You just knew the way things were going with NY racing, there would be something come up right before or during the Belmont Stakes. There is no way that NYRA didn't know the union would strike now. They should have had this settled long a go. I know the right wing will blame the union but seems to me they have already gone the extra mile by working over a year without a contract.
NYRA is under no obligation to offer anything to the union.
Unions have no Constitutional right of first refusal to do business.
NYRA should tell the IBEW to piss off.
Any business should if it so desires, has that right.
The people of this country are sick of unions and their nonsense.
Get rid of them. Hire new people who will work at a more realistic wage.
There are lots of people out of work who will take those jobs and be happy about it.
There is no use for you to reply. I will not change the way I think on this matter.

[thespaah]

Truly they never would have better leverage. It's how the game is played. The root of this involves OT pay. As reported in the Daily News today, the old union contract had the work week based on Monday through Friday, which means all Saturdays and Sundays were OT pay. NYRA wants them to shift to a Wednesday to Sunday contract (which is the schedule of almost all the workers there) and the union doesn't want to. And that's what it comes down to at the root.
Yer kidding? That's the contract? That is not logical at all.
Wow.

[thespaah]

What are those unreasonable demands that the union is asking for?
Look at OTM Al's post.....THAT is unreasonable.
They want overtime pay based on the day of the week. Not how many hours they work.
IMO, they should get OT ONLY if they go over 40 hours. Not just because they work Weekends. Lots of people work a weekend shift and do not get OT unless they go over 40 hours. Why should the union members be special?

[breeze]

Run like hell. :lol:

Shanku very much for your kind remarks.
(By the way, I never said that "I know all there is to know." But I've read enough to know a bit about you.;) )


Really? What are you implying with that personal comment? You stated working on the gate requires only minimal skills and I questioned how you could possibly know what it takes from your stated short time on the track. You obviously do not know very much about racehorses to make such a statement.

So why imply you know anything about me now? Are you just an ass?

[thespaah]

This is my first post on this board although I have been reading the board for years. This topic stirred me up enough to post. I live in NY so unions are a way of life, especially if one has kids in public schools. The union needs to get realistic. Times change. i understand that they don't want the definition of their work week to change but their work week is Weds-Sun, no? No one wants a pay cut. would they rather lose their jobs? I'm not in a union. NY is a work at will state. I have been with my employer for 15 years and I can walk in to work tomorrow & be job discontinued. Pension? they had one when I got there but they went to a cash balance plan so now the burden to save is on me. Rising healthcare premiums are killing everyone - I kick in approx 5% of my salary for premiums & that's before deductibles. Don't even get me started on the teachers union. Times change. Unions need to change as well. Nothing lasts forever. Maybe the union should say "for all those years we were getting paid OT for weekends, well it was good while it lasted"

Thanks for reading. I'm anticipating a great race and although I won't be betting on IHA, I'm certainly rooting for him. I think he has guts and hopefully, he'll get it done. Racing needs it & NY needs it as well.
Kudos for a well thought out and realistic post.

[thespaah]

Really? What are you implying with that personal comment? You stated working on the gate requires only minimal skills and I questioned how you could possibly know what it takes from your stated short time on the track. You obviously do not know very much about racehorses to make such a statement.

So why imply you know anything about me now? Are you just an ass?
Come on now. Please do not imply that the position of gate loader is a highly technical and skilled position.
Any good horseman with the same ability to study the program, see the horses and their tendencies in the morning can do that job.
See unions have for decades tried to convince businesses that THEIR union people are the ONLY people skilled enough to do the jobs covered by the unions.
For decades business HAD to accept the terms or be shut down. Those days are over. The high wages and gold plated benefits are no longer sustainable.
Pensions? Companies can no longer afford to pay people to NOT work.
Unions make up about 8% of the total US workforce. That number has been dropping for 40 years.
Unions are no longer needed. Their terms unaffordable. Their adversarial business model no longer tolerated.
This is not personal. It's business.

[breeze]

Com one now. Please do not imply that gate loaders is a highly technical and skilled position.
Any good horseman with the same ability to study the program, see the horses and their tendencies in the morning can do that job.
See unions have for decades tried to convince businesses that THEIR union people are the ONLY people skilled enough to do the jobs covered by the unions.
For decades business HAD to accept the terms or be shut down. Those days are over. The high wages and gold plated benefits are no longer sustainable.
Pensions? Companies can no longer afford to pay people to NOT work.
Unions make up about 8% of the total US workforce. That number has been dropping for 40 years.
Unions are no longer needed. Their terms unaffordable. Their adversarial business model no longer tolerated.
This is not personal. It's business.

"Any good horseman with the same ability to study the program, see the horses and their tendencies in the morning can do that job."

Exactly my point. A person cannot be plucked off the street nor would they let some kid who mucked stalls for a few weeks handle a horse in the gate.

It takes a HORSEMAN to know how to handle a fractious and/or revved up racehorse. Just knowing their proclivities is not enough as they must also know how to react and handle the horse. Many a non-track horseman would be lost with a racing thoroughbred in their hands. A non-horseman period could get someone killed.

[thespaah]

Did you work long enough to even hold the shank on a 2yr old? Or did you never get past stall mucking. Your response speaks to how little you know about racehorses.

Tell me oh "I worked the backside for a short while so know all there is to know" one, what would you do with a horse that tends to sit? one that flips? one that likes to dive under? one that always crosses their hind feet? etc etc

What body language would tip you off that a horse was preparing to do any of the above? I know by your posts that you could not even lead a fractious horse much less handle one in the gate.

A good gate crew saves lives. You,sir,should respect that and not speak of which you know so very little.
I worked with a 2YO colt that would try to take my head off when I first started with him. I got him to trust me after a few days. The damned horse hated people.
I figured out a lot of it on my own. I also had a cantankerous race mare which was a total "crap" head during mating season. She was a cow kicker. Got me just once. I found that controlling her tail would keep her from kicking to the side. Ahh, the curry comb. Run it down her side and reach back with my free hand and get the tail around her side and I was boss.
Other little tricks.. Watch the ears. If they pin them back, watch out. Grabbing that thing would get their attention.
One type I could never figure out was the "stomper" The horse that stomped their foot. Had one that stepped on my feet all the time. DAMMIT that hurt.
Look, you guys have a hazardous job. I've never loaded a horse into a gate. But I can tell you, I have loaded and unloaded them from trailers and there's one thing most horses have in common. They don't like confined spaces.
You guys can get crushed, stepped on, have your arm or hand trapped or crushed. It's tight in there. The pert where you have to hop up into the gate to hold the head straight looks like tons of fun.
Yes it is a hazardous job. Yet, that is not the point. There are tons of guys doing what you do across the country. You just happen to be doing it in a state where unionism is still pretty big.
It's the same thing as state workers who are union and those who are not. They are doing the same work all over and they do it well.

[mostpost]

In a free market economy every worker would get exactly what he is worth. I fail to see how anyone could ask for more. If a worker wants to earn more money he needs to make himself more valuable and it will all shake out.
No, he would not. In the first place people are not going to change jobs willy nilly. In the second place employers know what the going rate is for a particular job in the area. In the third place. with unemployment at 8.1% and higher in some areas there is a surplus of labor. If labor was scarce your theory might have some validity, but labor is not scarce. It is all too plentiful.

The problem here is that you (and your conservative cohorts) are talking about individuals whereas I am speaking about categories. True a person working on an assembly line can make himself more valuable and get a promotion to line supervisor or foreman. But that is one person out of how many? The folks who assemble washing machines are not going to get a better salary at Whirlpool than at Maytag. Unless Whirlpool has a union and Maytag does not.

[thespaah]

"Any good horseman with the same ability to study the program, see the horses and their tendencies in the morning can do that job."

Exactly my point. A person cannot be plucked off the street nor would they let some kid who mucked stalls for a few weeks handle a horse in the gate.

It takes a HORSEMAN to know how to handle a fractious and/or revved up racehorse. Just knowing their proclivities is not enough as they must also know how to react and handle the horse. Many a non-track horseman would be lost with a racing thoroughbred in their hands. A non-horseman period could get someone killed.
Or himself. Or a horse.
I have seen them flip. I have had a horse that got spooked by a kid filling a bicycle tire in the barn area. I was just walking him. He went up and if not for a little trick a guy had told me about ,he would have gone over. I hate to say this, But I probably saved the horse from serious injury by kicking him in the belly which cause him to come right back down. I hated to hurt the animal, but I had to think quick. The horse got over it.

[breeze]

I worked with a 2YO colt that would try to take my head off when I first started with him. I got him to trust me after a few days. The damned horse hated people.
I figured out a lot of it on my own. I also had a cantankerous race mare which was a total "crap" head during mating season. She was a cow kicker. Got me just once. I found that controlling her tail would keep her from kicking to the side. Ahh, the curry comb. Run it down her side and reach back with my free hand and get the tail around her side and I was boss.
Other little tricks.. Watch the ears. If they pin them back, watch out. Grabbing that thing would get their attention.
One type I could never figure out was the "stomper" The horse that stomped their foot. Had one that stepped on my feet all the time. DAMMIT that hurt.
Look, you guys have a hazardous job. I've never loaded a horse into a gate. But I can tell you, I have loaded and unloaded them from trailers and there's one thing most horses have in common. They don't like confined spaces.
You guys can get crushed, stepped on, have your arm or hand trapped or crushed. It's tight in there. The pert where you have to hop up into the gate to hold the head straight looks like tons of fun.
Yes it is a hazardous job. Yet, that is not the point. There are tons of guys doing what you do across the country. You just happen to be doing it in a state where unionism is still pretty big.
It's the same thing as state workers who are union and those who are not. They are doing the same work all over and they do it well.

lol I am not a guy nor have I ever worked at the track as gatecrew. I have jumped in the gate at a training farm here and there to help get the babies schooled. I speak from the position of being the one the gatecrew risks their lives to save. I am a semi-retired jockey/trainer/owner. Semi because the itch to race never goes away. ;)

Loading horses into a trailer does not compare with handling a horse in the gate. Once they are broke and running it is not the small space that makes it tough. It is the fact that the horse is geared to POWER OUT of that gate. It is what they are taught to do. They must be kept calm yet be alert to break properly. It is not easy and a starter would not pluck anyone off the street to work in the gate.

[iceknight]

Just wanted to add that I am not against unions because "free markets" do not really work. That is lot of crony capitalism happening and will continue to happen because a lot of it is uncovered only later on. Unions do provide valuable protection to a whole exploited class of workers. However, to have them read 40 hrs as 70 hrs simply based on day of the week.. that's a big stretch. hopefully the negotitated contract is somewhere midway.
Now, you do have to remember that lot of these employees have family members who go work or school during the regular Mon-Fri. So they do miss valuable time with their family on the weekends, so in that essence some additional compensation is justified (this is assuming that this for the greater good for largest no of employees).

[MPRanger]

Probably because the union is looking to use the occasion to force them to agree unreasonable demands.

There are TWO parties involved here, three if you consider the state.
But you blame only NYRA?


They should agree to their demands, get thru Belmont stakes day then fire them all. It amounts to coercion.



Wikipedia:
Coercion (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.svg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png / (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English)k (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)oʊ (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ˈ (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ɜr (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ʃ (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)ən (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English#Key)/ (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_English)) is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Threat) or intimidation (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Intimidation) or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the duress (http://www.paceadvantage.com/wiki/Duress) crime.

[mostpost]

NYRA is under no obligation to offer anything to the union.
Unions have no Constitutional right of first refusal to do business.
NYRA should tell the IBEW to piss off.
Any business should if it so desires, has that right.
The people of this country are sick of unions and their nonsense.
Get rid of them. Hire new people who will work at a more realistic wage.
There are lots of people out of work who will take those jobs and be happy about it.
There is no use for you to reply. I will not change the way I think on this matter.
Of course we will not change the way you think on this matter. Changing the way you thinks requires flexibility and intelligence on your part. Anyone who writes as you did, "Any business should if it so desires, has that right." is not very bright. Read that out loud and tell me what it means. It doesn't mean what you think it does.

Then you say, "Unions have no Constitutional right of first refusal to do business." Here's a clue. The Constitution doesn't say anything about unions or business except that Congress can make laws taxing and regulating businesses. And guess what? Congress made a law in the 1930's called the National Labor Relations Act and one of the provisions of that act was that unions do indeed have the right to strike. The same law guarantees that people have the right to form unions and to join unions without fear of retaliation. Maybe you should go and learn something before you come on here and start spouting nonsense.

[thespaah]

No, he would not. In the first place people are not going to change jobs willy nilly. In the second place employers know what the going rate is for a particular job in the area. In the third place. with unemployment at 8.1% and higher in some areas there is a surplus of labor. If labor was scarce your theory might have some validity, but labor is not scarce. It is all too plentiful.

The problem here is that you (and your conservative cohorts) are talking about individuals whereas I am speaking about categories. True a person working on an assembly line can make himself more valuable and get a promotion to line supervisor or foreman. But that is one person out of how many? The folks who assemble washing machines are not going to get a better salary at Whirlpool than at Maytag. Unless Whirlpool has a union and Maytag does not.
That's nonsense. Because labor is a commodity, the marketplace determines wages.
I will give you an example.
There was a boat company named Baron Yacht Company. They wanted to build a plant near Beaufort, SC. The wages paid to workers there would have been higher than the prevailing market wage for the area. LOcal employers feared the plant would drive wages upward because the competition for workers would increase. The rest of the story is irrelevant.
Second example. Regions where FRacking rigs are set up are seeing market wages rise rapidly because the rigs pay scale is so high. Other businesses in these areas are having to raise their pay rates to keep their employees.
That is how the marketplace is supposed to work.
On the other hand, if there is high unemployment and say a company wishes to build a call center in that area. Of course the owners of the center would research the region and look at the labor market and then determine pay rates.
This is a very simple concept.
Once again this proves labor is a commodity. It is.

[PhantomOnTour]

There is 0% chance that this race gets postponed due to the possible strike.
A gate crew and all necessary employees will be there on Saturday, whether they are the regulars or replacements.
I am not concerned in the least bit that this will disrupt the Belmont Stks and undercard races.
Never a doubt in my mind

[thespaah]

Of course we will not change the way you think on this matter. Changing the way you thinks requires flexibility and intelligence on your part. Anyone who writes as you did, "Any business should if it so desires, has that right." is not very bright. Read that out loud and tell me what it means. It doesn't mean what you think it does.

Then you say, "Unions have no Constitutional right of first refusal to do business." Here's a clue. The Constitution doesn't say anything about unions or business except that Congress can make laws taxing and regulating businesses. And guess what? Congress made a law in the 1930's called the National Labor Relations Act and one of the provisions of that act was that unions do indeed have the right to strike. The same law guarantees that people have the right to form unions and to join unions without fear of retaliation. Maybe you should go and learn something before you come on here and start spouting nonsense.
No..Not flexibility. That would be compromising my core beliefs. It would go against all common sense and logic. Ask somebody else to do that.
And please, don't go thinking you can get me to enter into a pissing contest here. So stop with the silly semantics. If you had one scintilla of comprehension skills, you'd know the sentence you picked apart like a little kid plucking the onions out of his pasta sauce, was a continuation of a point.
But you go ahead and believe what you will.
You know everything. And cynicism is your way of expressing yourself on just about every thread on here.
Yes, unions have the right to job actions. However with restrictions on many fronts.
Of course the US Constitution does not mention unions. Unions are not part of the federal government. I used an absurdity to make a point. There are those who believe unions have absolute rights and freedoms. They do not. However, if that is presented to a union member, they have a cow over it.
Anyway, there is the fact that while labor organizations are quite legal. However, it is also quite legal for a business to refuse to bargain or to terminate further business with a labor organization.
Now, we're quite through here.

[thespaah]

Just wanted to add that I am not against unions because "free markets" do not really work. That is lot of crony capitalism happening and will continue to happen because a lot of it is uncovered only later on. Unions do provide valuable protection to a whole exploited class of workers. However, to have them read 40 hrs as 70 hrs simply based on day of the week.. that's a big stretch. hopefully the negotitated contract is somewhere midway.
Now, you do have to remember that lot of these employees have family members who go work or school during the regular Mon-Fri. So they do miss valuable time with their family on the weekends, so in that essence some additional compensation is justified (this is assuming that this for the greater good for largest no of employees).
Umm. those who decided to become employees of NYRA knew the job required weekend work.
No one else except a very small number of people have the perk of working less than 40 hrs and being paid overtime.
And there are plenty of occupations which require work to be done on Saturdays and Sundays and those people are compensated straight time.
What the union is doing is demanding SPECIAL treatment. NYRA should hold their ground and strike the overtime condition from the next agreement. If the IBEW doesn't like it, they can take their workers elsewhere.

[thespaah]

lol I am not a guy nor have I ever worked at the track as gatecrew. I have jumped in the gate at a training farm here and there to help get the babies schooled. I speak from the position of being the one the gatecrew risks their lives to save. I am a semi-retired jockey/trainer/owner. Semi because the itch to race never goes away. ;)

Loading horses into a trailer does not compare with handling a horse in the gate. Once they are broke and running it is not the small space that makes it tough. It is the fact that the horse is geared to POWER OUT of that gate. It is what they are taught to do. They must be kept calm yet be alert to break properly. It is not easy and a starter would not pluck anyone off the street to work in the gate.
I am not implying trailering is THE SAME....It is similar in that it's a place horses by nature do not want to go. So yes it most certainly DOES compare.
I had the friggin bruises to prove it.
As to your last sentence, my response is "no kidding"...
Gee I thought they could pick up a few day laborers and homeless guys to be on a gate crew. I am amazed... :eek:
Look, I did not work in the business for a very long time. However, in the time I was on the backstretch, I learned a lot. Most of it was on pure survival/self preservation instinct. I hung around people who were a lot smarter than I. I kept my ears open and my trap shut except to ask questions. I kept my eyes open and watched the experienced guys. When you are on your own in this business, few people want to help you. One must learn quick or go home.
As previously stated. This is not personal. It's business.

[breeze]

I am not implying trailering is THE SAME....It is similar in that it's a place horses by nature do not want to go. So yes it most certainly DOES compare.
I had the friggin bruises to prove it.
As to your last sentence, my response is "no kidding"...
Gee I thought they could pick up a few day laborers and homeless guys to be on a gate crew. I am amazed... :eek:
Look, I did not work in the business for a very long time. However, in the time I was on the backstretch, I learned a lot. Most of it was on pure survival/self preservation instinct. I hung around people who were a lot smarter than I. I kept my ears open and my trap shut except to ask questions. I kept my eyes open and watched the experienced guys. When you are on your own in this business, few people want to help you. One must learn quick or go home.
As previously stated. This is not personal. It's business.

Loading into a trailer does NOT compare at all. If you had ever spent any time working a gate or even just watching some schooling you would know this. The very beginning stages of breaking a horse to the gate does compare somewhat, but once they are sprung a few times it is not even close. Loading into a trailer would compare to walking a horse into a straight stall as opposed to a box stall. It is the race or anticipation of the work that makes the gate unique.

I am surprised nobody was willing to teach you on the backside. I have been to many many tracks and have always found there to be many people willing to help a new guy out. By your few examples of grabbing a tail to groom and grabbing an ear to control,you sure could have used some lessons. With the knowledge you have provided me,I know you were not in any way ready to crawl into a gate.

This is not personal it is just business. Working on the gate takes a lot of skill, courage and experience that even many race horsemen do not have much less someone with a short time on the track.

It is one of those"you know so little that you do not know how little you know" situations.

[breeze]

Or himself. Or a horse.
I have seen them flip. I have had a horse that got spooked by a kid filling a bicycle tire in the barn area. I was just walking him. He went up and if not for a little trick a guy had told me about ,he would have gone over. I hate to say this, But I probably saved the horse from serious injury by kicking him in the belly which cause him to come right back down. I hated to hurt the animal, but I had to think quick. The horse got over it.


Rearing is not the same as flipping. You would not kick a horse in the belly to bring them down when they go up. Basic horsemanship teaches you how to control a horse's feet. By learning their balance points you would be able to bring down a rearing horse.

Flipping is quick,they are up and over before you can stop them. Some horse's rear and then lose their balance or are pulled over by inexperienced handlers. But a flipper is very different. With a flipper you have to learn what triggers the flip and avoid it. Keeping a flipper moving is a useful tool for many of them. Some it is just a matter of reschooling and getting them to chill. Tailing a horse can prevent some from flipping in the gate. Most trainers get rid of flippers and send them down to the lower end tracks as they are very dangerous.

[toetoe]

The problem here is that you (and your conservative cohorts) are talking about individuals whereas I am speaking about categories.



Dead serious now, that is an almost perfect description of the left/right division. If you could just see the individual, it would open up a whole new world for you. Thanks for the insight, anyway. :)



Did I mention that was a hell of an insight ? :ThmbUp:

[davew]

Is a main concern overtime pay for weekends and holidays? Didn't they pretty much know that is when tracks race? Maybe let the union workers work on Wed., Thur., Fri. and exercise riders do the weekends and holidays.

Are they talking about more than the gate crew? Is it also the groundskeepers? I am not sure if flowers really need watering and weeding on weekends.

Some jobs just require odd hours and days - they should have known that going into the application process.

Because of all of this, my hunch play for the Belmont -> Union Rags

[rastajenk]

Because of all of this, my hunch play for the Belmont -> Union RagsThat's excellent. I had to pan through seven pages before I found a nugget. :ThmbUp:

[Zoot]

I don't mean to interject an irrelevant non sequitur into this thread but I have a quick question that has been bugging me since the start of all this.

Maybe I'm just ignorant of how unions work these days but can someone explain why the heck (non electrical ) maintenance workers and gate crew personnel are represented by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. :confused:

But more importantly, does anyone know if the IBEW represents the same class of workers at all NYRA tracks or is this just at Belmont ?

[Tom]

Unions are like ugly girls at last call.
You take what you can get at that point. :rolleyes:

[thespaah]

I don't mean to interject an irrelevant non sequitur into this thread but I have a quick question that has been bugging me since the start of all this.

Maybe I'm just ignorant of how unions work these days but can someone explain why the heck (non electrical ) maintenance workers and gate crew personnel are represented by the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. :confused:

But more importantly, does anyone know if the IBEW represents the same class of workers at all NYRA tracks or is this just at Belmont ?
Some unions allow people of different occupations to join.
There was a union tire mfg plant here where all the workers were members of the Machinists Union even if they were not machinists.
BTW, that plant closed because the Machinists Union failed to take an offer of wage and benefit concessions. The plant ownership warned the Union that if the terms were not met, the plant would close. The union dug in it's heels and the workers got thrown under the bus.

[Ocala Mike]

Some unions allow people of different occupations to join.





They don't just "allow" people of different occupations to join, they aggressively pursue them (or at least they did in the past in non-right to work states). My wife used to work on the assembly line at a plastic model toy company on Long Island (no longer in business), and the Teamsters came in and organized the place.

[MutuelClerk]

I've worked in racing over 30 years. I've always been in a union. I've seen the good and the bad. Sadly i've seen slackers on my job and bettors blame all union workers on the slacking of a few. Ive seen my salary slashed 50% over the past 10 years. In that time I wonder why i pay dues. I love horse racing, work hard and hope it lasts another 11 years in Michigan so i can retire.

I see labor unions and organized religon in the same light. Both start with the best intentions. Over the years both have become big business themselves. Corporations even. When that happens they put themselves before their memberships. That conflict of interest leads to trouble.

[Greyfox]

Over the years both have become big business themselves. Corporations even. .

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: Yes. There now you've said it.
I've been waiting for years to see someone say that on this board.
The worker is the pawn between two corporate Chess players.
Dyed-in-the-wool true blue unionists like Mostie fail to see this though.
It's just one big business vs another big business.

[Tom]

IHA is out.....does the contract get re-negotiated?

NYRA should have held out......

[BeatTheChalk]

Until he finally got straight and picked up the pace in the final
yards. Check it out - when you take a look at the Video.
I did not notice it - until I heard about his tendon -- and
watched the race again.

And of course - maybe it was Nothing. Who knows.I could be
wrong ( and I usally am ) Please comment

[iceknight]

Until he finally got straight and picked up the pace in the final
yards. Check it out - when you take a look at the Video.
I did not notice it - until I heard about his tendon -- and
watched the race again.

And of course - maybe it was Nothing. Who knows.I could be
wrong ( and I usally am ) Please comment I noticed that on that day live, and in many replays. But I also discounted it in my handicapping for Belmont because he still beat CC by 8 EIGHT lengths. I also noticed that it seemed like Mario had to whip him more than in K Derby, but still again I realized he was catching front running Bode and drew clear of CC by 8 lengths. Are u hinting that this problem may have been at Pimlico finish line? hard to tell.. even harder to believe.

[BeatTheChalk]

Great comments. I wasn't trying to indicate that the problem took place
near the Finish line. Actually he started to lugout - at aound 1:34 on the
video. Then got straight around 1:54 Let's see how much information
will be on its way to the world.

[iceknight]

Great comments. I wasn't trying to indicate that the problem took place
near the Finish line. Actually he started to lugout - at aound 1:34 on the
video. Then got straight around 1:54 Let's see how much information
will be on its way to the world. Yes. the lugout made me think he was "tired"..but man I am in denial. cant believe this happened. Need a drink. lol

[Dahoss9698]

Until he finally got straight and picked up the pace in the final
yards. Check it out - when you take a look at the Video.
I did not notice it - until I heard about his tendon -- and
watched the race again.

And of course - maybe it was Nothing. Who knows.I could be
wrong ( and I usally am ) Please comment

He didn't lug out. If anything he was coming in a little and the jock was trying to get him straightened out.

He did the exact same thing in the Santa Anita and Kentucky Derbies.

[joeprunes]

Thanks for all the guys ragging on the union, I will now bet on union rags. lol

[iceknight]

Thanks for all the guys ragging on the union, I will now bet on union rags. lol The UNION did STRIKE the front at a crucial time and it caused me lot of Payn..

[Grits]

The UNION did STRIKE the front at a crucial time and it caused me lot of Payn..

It did the same in the 1860s. Us Southerners felt the payn then, too. It burned and pillaged everything in its path. :lol:

[iceknight]

:rolleyes:
So you think that when that job posting comes up it is stated
- "Only People with Thoroughbred Experience Need Apply." Here is an example.. (a little extreme) but not too uncommon...of things starters need to be able to handle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=zGfrr8CFuIw

zGfrr8CFuIw