Pennsylvania Racing;not required to attract new fans

[jelly]

Slot machine revenue for purses increased by more than $19 million at six Pennsylvania racetracks in 2011, while pari-mutuel handle and the revenue it produces for prize money continued to drop.




Under the 2004 racetrack gaming law, racetracks are required to spend a certain amount on barn area improvements. (Two were built from the ground up after slots became law: Presque Isle Downs & Casino and Harrah's Philadelphia Casino & Racetrack.) Through 2011 Parx Racing has spent $17.5 million on stabling improvements, followed by Hollywood Casino at Penn National Race Course ($7.6 million), and Mohegan Sun at Pocono Downs and The Meadows Racetrack & Casino (both at $6.5 million).

The racing industry gets 12% of slots revenue at racetrack casinos and 6% at non-track casinos. Of that cut, 66% goes to purses, 17% to the general fund (through June 2013), 7% to Thoroughbred breeding, 6% to Standardbred breeding and the sires stakes program, and 4% to health insurance and pension benefits for horsemen.





According to the report, in 2011 only 16% of purses earned--$34 million—came from wagering on Pennsylvania racing. That downward trend has continued since 2006, when only $3 million came from slots and $52.9 million came from handle.

All categories of handle were down in 2011, according to the PGCB. Out-of-state export wagering on Pennsylvania racing totaled $594.1 million, down 10% from 2010. On-track handle of $38.2 million at the six tracks was down 5.6%, while wagering at off-track betting parlors in the state dropped 14.2% to $15 million.


Read more on BloodHorse.com: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/70286/pa-gaming-report-examines-revenue-for-purses#ixzz1wqwP9RA9

[Charli125]

Racedays=up, races=up, purses=waaay up, handle=decimated.

Can we take that as proof that purses are not a primary driver of handle? Would be interested in seeing field size as well. I'm sure it's up, but I bet not by much.

Also would be interested in seeing the full report if anyone can find it. Would like to see total slots money spent on purses and other areas since it started.

Penn only has a few years left before this subsidy gets taken away(maybe even 1 year), I wonder if there's any chance we could get someone over there to listen to some out of the box ideas(lowering takeout) while they still have a chance. Once the slots go away, the industry there will be decimated.

[Shemp Howard]

At Presque Isle Saturday night the handle on half of the races was less than the purse. For the night, the handle was less than $200K and the purses $160K. Kids being thrown off Medicaid while the gypsy stables suck up minor checks in 5 hourse fields. Only in America.

[therussmeister]

On the other hand, they say Penn Nat'l handle is way up this year.

[racingfan378]

Penn National is doing just fine and I personally think they are one of the better PA race tracks out there.

Nothing will change in PA regarding purses. The gov tried to take money away and almost everyone in the senate said no when he tried to balance the budget.

I hate when people get on this site talking about something they know nothing about. Nothing will change in "one year" !!!

Plus with the advent of internet betting, I would love to see a report of how many states suffered at their local OTBs b/c of it. You just cant compare PA and not other states. I was out at Del Mar's OTB (Surfside race place) and they have closed 25% of the facility and turned it into a bingo hall which they get better crowds than the OTB itself. But before TVG came along, that place was packed.

PID has been a joke from opening day. We all know that the Cleveland casinos will cause the demise of PID someday but Penn has nobody to knock heads with. They are near the state capitol and the other casinos or race tracks are far enough away where they arent like PID hoping for visitors from afar.

I too read the report on bloodhorse about the handle going up. . .

With Ohio getting the slots, PID MNR and the dog track in Wheeling have seen the last of their better days. They will be treated like casinos off the vegas strip. Run down places with watered down beer and cheap tables games hoping to draw someone in.

[Charli125]

I hate when people get on this site talking about something they know nothing about. Nothing will change in "one year" !!!

Haven't the slots fueled purses been in place since 2004? I know it was at least 2006 per the bloodhorse article. That means they've had either 8 or 6 years to do something with the subsidy and whatever they've tried(massive purses) hasn't worked.

We're not talking about 1 year, we're talking about 6+, maybe 8.

[tzipi]

Haven't the slots fueled purses been in place since 2004? I know it was at least 2006 per the bloodhorse article. That means they've had either 8 or 6 years to do something with the subsidy and whatever they've tried(massive purses) hasn't worked.

We're not talking about 1 year, we're talking about 6+, maybe 8.

I always said that and agreed. Higer purses does nothing for the bettor in my opinion. Maybe a bigger filled race here and there. Higher purses is just for the owners and trainers. What are people going to flock to Parx because 2 NY shipping horses run a there a day now? Handle rise comes with HELPING and feeding the bettors, the lifeblood of the game. Giving all that big money to the purses/owners does NOT get anyone into the game or help the bettors big time. Does the money help racing at all? Yes, but I think most of it is going to the wrong place. Just my opinion.

[Shemp Howard]

On the other hand, they say Penn Nat'l handle is way up this year.


Almost all the % increase reported was a result of running 26.6% more races than the comparable period in 2011. 2011 was down 10% from 2010.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[Charli125]

Almost all the % increase reported was a result of running 26.6% more races than the comparable period in 2011. 2011 was down 10% from 2010.

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

You can't trust most of the numbers put out by the industry. They use per race, per day, per meet, or whatever else looks the best. Some CA tracks even include money bet in CA on tracks outside of CA!

[racingfan378]

A pet peeve of mine is listening or reading what people have to say and not knowing what they are talking about. So here are some FACTS about the May handle at Penn

May of 2011:
1146 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $64,067,981

May of 2012:
1237 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $74,039,724

So that purse money and field size = a positive result! Parx Racing & PID cant say the same thing.

Here is a little known fact, Penn is the safest racino in the country. The injury rate at Penn acually dropped once slots came on board. Any other racino in the country saw bigger injury numbers after slots. PID isnt added into this b/c they started out as a racino.

All these numbers are made public btw so these ARE THE FACTS in case anyone wants to claim that "the numbers" are made up.

[racingfan378]

P.S.

PID, ZIA, & IND arent included in the "safest" racino figures since they werent around for the report period of 1999-2001. We all know PID has the best
injury-free rate other than a small sample from Blue Ribbon Downs which had 0 injuries from 1,300 + starters

[iceknight]

A pet peeve of mine is listening or reading what people have to say and not knowing what they are talking about. So here are some FACTS about the May handle at Penn

May of 2011:
1146 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $64,067,981

May of 2012:
1237 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $74,039,724

So that purse money and field size = a positive result! Parx Racing & PID cant say the same thing.

Actually i would think that May handle is up just because of increased interest in racing due to potential TC. Do you have month to month comparisons for other months (April? etc),
Just one month data cannot justify your conclusion that larger field size, larger purse is driving increased handle. Handle could have also gone up due to some beer company promotion or whatever...

[proximity]

the return to the wed-sat schedule may have helped pen too??..... there was a period, and i can't remember if it included last may or not, where they kinda split up the week and were racing on some non-traditional pen nights.

[proximity]

i do enjoy the racing at pen and its sister track charles town, but i will also add that it is far from a racino utopia. i do feel, however, that a lot of pen's problems aren't endemic to the racing, but the hollywood casino brand as a whole. it isn't just that the hollywood casino is cheap, it is that they are complacent with no desire to become the best destination for gamblers in the mid-atlantic. and that is sad.

[racingfan378]

They might not be a utopia nor are they pretending to be, but the CT Classic and other big races have put CT on the map. Penn has a very nice stakes schedule which they never had before 2011. I dont know if the "company" is cheap or not, you would have to provide proof that they are. I dont mean what promos they do or dont have, I mean actual proof.

Ive seen cheap casinos and racetracks, I've walked into Penn compared to the Meadows, Mountaineer, etc. BIG difference.

Every track has its flaws but I would rather bet CT or PEN etc before I ever waste my money again on HP, GG, TuP and that list goes on.

I rather see tracks making the product work and not nickle and diming you to get into the joint then go to the ghetto of HP and be out all kinds of cash before I even start the day off and hope nobody robbed my car! :rolleyes:

[Charli125]

A pet peeve of mine is listening or reading what people have to say and not knowing what they are talking about. So here are some FACTS about the May handle at Penn

May of 2011:
1146 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $64,067,981

May of 2012:
1237 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $74,039,724

So that purse money and field size = a positive result! Parx Racing & PID cant say the same thing.

Here is a little known fact, Penn is the safest racino in the country. The injury rate at Penn acually dropped once slots came on board. Any other racino in the country saw bigger injury numbers after slots. PID isnt added into this b/c they started out as a racino.

All these numbers are made public btw so these ARE THE FACTS in case anyone wants to claim that "the numbers" are made up.

You seem to have access to the data, so can you provide the same information for YTD 2011 and 2012? Also, do you have number of races for the same periods?

[FenceBored]

A pet peeve of mine is listening or reading what people have to say and not knowing what they are talking about. So here are some FACTS about the May handle at Penn

May of 2011:
1146 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $64,067,981

May of 2012:
1237 horses left the gate over 18 days, handle all sources was $74,039,724

So that purse money and field size = a positive result! Parx Racing & PID cant say the same thing.

Here is a little known fact, Penn is the safest racino in the country. The injury rate at Penn acually dropped once slots came on board. Any other racino in the country saw bigger injury numbers after slots. PID isnt added into this b/c they started out as a racino.

All these numbers are made public btw so these ARE THE FACTS in case anyone wants to claim that "the numbers" are made up.

If Penn is so safe why don't they approve the release of their Equine Injury Database summary (http://www.jockeyclub.com/initiatives.asp?section=2) like PID (http://www.jockeyclub.com/pdfs/eid/_PresqueIsleDowns.pdf) does? None of this mamby pamby 'parse the chart callers remarks which weren't meant for that purpose' stuff, real deliberately created data.

[castaway01]

Haven't the slots fueled purses been in place since 2004? I know it was at least 2006 per the bloodhorse article. That means they've had either 8 or 6 years to do something with the subsidy and whatever they've tried(massive purses) hasn't worked.

We're not talking about 1 year, we're talking about 6+, maybe 8.

November 2006 was when the first slot machines started operating...of course they've added more and more since then.

[proximity]

They might not be a utopia nor are they pretending to be, but the CT Classic and other big races have put CT on the map. Penn has a very nice stakes schedule which they never had before 2011. I dont know if the "company" is cheap or not, you would have to provide proof that they are. I dont mean what promos they do or dont have, I mean actual proof.

well, the only promo they have is the poker bad beat jackpot which is completely funded by the players. racing "rebates" have remained exactly the same (a miniscule 0.3-0.6%, a total joke, lol) as they were since they opened the casino. they gave ZERO to the horseplayer. and pre-casino the only thing that put penn national on the map was the world series of handicapping.....which they completely destroyed. $2.33 for a dixie cup of coffee in the racing clubhouse? and wednesday and thursday nights the mountainview is a total ghost town. high roller tonyk@hsh is about their only customer.

Ive seen cheap casinos and racetracks, I've walked into Penn compared to the Meadows, Mountaineer, etc. BIG difference.

have you not only walked into, but PLAYED in COMPETING casinos like sands, parx, pocono, and delaware? which casino has the highest poker rake and the lowest (no) comps? answer: hollywood casino properties charles town and pen. and while pen's clubhouse is at least a nice place to play and watch the races (they could certainly use more tvs and get ALL the scheduled simulcast signals up in a TIMELY manner), charles town remains a dump.

Every track has its flaws but I would rather bet CT or PEN etc before I ever waste my money again on HP, GG, TuP and that list goes on.

so would i and i do as ct is first in my pct of handle this year and pen third.

I rather see tracks making the product work and not nickle and diming you to get into the joint then go to the ghetto of HP and be out all kinds of cash before I even start the day off and hope nobody robbed my car! :rolleyes:

.

[bitter]

Will definitely take a bite out of PENN’s gaming revenue

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11572249/1/maryland-live-casino-opens-at-arundel-mills-in-hanover-md.html

[proximity]

just got back from a late night poker session at pen and you can literally see their greed when there is so much rake in the box that the floor has to come around multiple times to shake the box and try to jam the rake down further with a metal pole. with $5.00 rake they'd cut the number of chips going into the box in half and wouldn't have this problem. :rolleyes: