In a snit over security

[Grits]

http://espn.go.com/horse-racing/story/_/id/7993977/another-trainer-doug-oneill-feel-singled-new-race-rules

According to a confidential email obtained by the Times, O'Neill's horses cannot in any way be treated "without a board investigator present," and that he should not allow treatment of any of his horses "by mouth or in feed without conferring with a board investigator, who will first log the treatment and discuss the reason(s) for treatment."The Times also reported O'Neill must provide veterinary records for I'll Have Another and any other horses he may be running over those days at Belmont "no later than 10 a.m." each day after any treatment.

:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

http://www.drf.com/news/hovdey-belmont-stakes-security-may-be-over-top

It bothers me when folks get in a snit about things that they lack knowledge of. People who are blaming the detention barn (for this Belmont) on Doug O'Neill's being a cheater. These same individuals, apparently, have never been aware that "its been done" before! The detention barn isn't something new. Nor are they aware of the problems NYRA is facing with the governor's office. They have no clue on these things. (These are women that I'm speaking of that, I guess, don't know anything about NY racing.) -- These opinions, I noted, came after DRF reported that Dale Romans was displeased.

[Tom]

Whenever I see "confidential" used to describe a letter, email, phone call.....I immediately think "we made it up."

And, as we all know for a FACT, the Times has a checkered history with the truth. Printing made up stories is a part of their heritage.

[Vengeance of Rain]

These are women that I'm speaking of that, I guess, don't know anything about NY racing.
If you wouldn't mind I'd be very interested in hearing what this means.

I clicked on the links you provided yet it's a bit of a mystery to me. I must be missing something.

Thank you in advance.

[forced89]

If I was O'neill and Redman, I would tell the stewards (banning the nasal strip) and NYRA (over the top rules) to stuff it. I would take my horses to Monmouth and not enter the Belmont. Then I would sit out by the pool with a cold beer and let the NYRA and stewards explain to the press and the public why it is not all their fault.

If you say I wouldn't do this with a shot for the Triple Crown on the line, you would be wrong!!

[Grits]

If you wouldn't mind I'd be very interested in hearing what this means.

I clicked on the links you provided yet it's a bit of a mystery to me. I must be missing something.

Thank you in advance.

IMHO, there's always been three types of women that follow thoroughbred racing.

1. The wife or girlfriend that goes to the track with her husband or male friend and reads her book all afternoon. She could care less about the sport or about the horses running. She may tell her partner to bet her birthday, or bet the gray. He has a difficult time enjoying the afternoon, as he's alone. No one is sharing his interest. But, he's paying for everything, food, beverages, admission, parking, etc. (Once in a rare while there's an exception as far as wives go, and I've known some. They and their husbands love the races together.)

2. The female fan who has loved horses all her life. The "pretty pony" fan as men have termed them. And rightfully so. They love all horses. Too, they love individual racehorses, passionately, like Rachel or Zenyatta. They choose one over the other. Usually, their thoughts lean more towards the zealous. They have trainers that they prefer over others. Their knowledge of the sport "as a business" is extremely limited. It doesn't interest them. They go to the races because they love the "show", (which is certainly fine.) They don't bet much. If they do, its usually a minimal WPS bet.

3. The female fan who loves horses and knows thoroughbred racing is "a great game." The greatest, in fact. They often have more care for the animal than men do. They have a difficult time understanding how #1 can sit at a racetrack with her nose in a book. They become a student of the game just as their male counterparts. They listen to others, they may gain a mentor, they purchase books on the sport. They learn all aspects of the game. They study past performances, they want to handicap races. After their handicapping, they go to the windows or the SAMS and bet their opinions accordingly.

I have learned this, first, from these men, here, at Pace Advantage. But too, from my experience and observation over the years. And reading comments online.

[Striker]

What are your opinions on Ellen McClain?

[Vengeance of Rain]

The reason why I asked you to please explain was because I didn't see anything on the links you provided to elicit such a statement. (I still don't but your post is interesting).

I am not trying to put words in your mouth but something about all three of your types (including the 3rd one) makes me feel like they are inferior.

Am I reading something into your comments that isn't there?

Maybe it's just the simple word "wanting" as in "wanting to handicap" that has me a little confused. If you had said and the 3rd type handicaps and is a bettor I wouldn't sense this.

[Grits]

I am not trying to put words in your mouth but something about all three of your types (including the 3rd one) makes me feel like they are inferior.
I beg your pardon, this is precisely what you're doing--putting words into my mouth. Please, don't assume that I cannot easily see this. I implied nothing about inferiority, only distinct differences. That's it.
They study past performances, they want to handicap races. After their handicapping, they go to the windows or the SAMS and bet their opinions accordingly.
After one has spent this much time learning, studying, etc. Yes, one wants to handicap. This is the goal. Handicapping is the study of past performances. When she walks to the window or the SAMS, she bets. This IS a handicapper and a bettor. I'm sorry, but I feel I was clear.
Am I reading something into your comments that isn't there? Maybe it's just the simple word "wanting" as in "wanting to handicap" that has me a little confused. If you had said and the 3rd type handicaps and is a bettor I wouldn't sense this.

Yes, you are.

First I'm asinine and supercilious, now I'm accused of writing women off as inferior? As I said, I can't suit you, and with this bit of exchange I won't try again.

Posing questions to others is a good thing. This is how we learn, how we share. But, when answering, turning those questions about with thinly veiled passive aggressive agenda doesn't bode well for anyone.

Good luck with your psychological submission in Off Topics. Its as insulting as you've been towards me.

[Grits]

What are your opinions on Ellen McClain?

Striker, I'm sorry, I don't know who Ellen McClain is, or what she does. :blush:

[Vengeance of Rain]

"These are women that I'm speaking of that, I guess, don't know anything about NY racing."

That was what I found strange and the reason I asked in the first place because it didn't seem to have anything to do with anything.

It would be like if you were talking about what kind of catfood you bought and I said well yeah but Putin only likes dogs and horses. They have a vague connection but they really have nothing to do with each other.

I found it strange but in a way where I wanted to understand it because it was interesting. That's all.

[nijinski]

Striker, I'm sorry, I don't know who Ellen McClain is, or what she does. :blush:



Ellen McClain, who had been serving as Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, has been named President of the New York Racing Association, NYRA board chairman C. Steven Duncker announced last evening. McClain replaces Charles Hayward, who was let go two weeks ago following the release of an interim report from the New York State Racing and Wagering Board regarding inappropriate take out rates.

Just thought I'd throw this in .for ya.

[Grits]

Ellen McClain, who had been serving as Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, has been named President of the New York Racing Association, NYRA board chairman C. Steven Duncker announced last evening. McClain replaces Charles Hayward, who was let go two weeks ago following the release of an interim report from the New York State Racing and Wagering Board regarding inappropriate take out rates.

Just thought I'd throw this in .for ya.

Thanks, Nj. I knew that Hayward's replacement was a female, and "in house", and that NYRA was not praised for their decision (what else is new) but no I didn't recall Ms.McClain's name. Thanks for telling me. ;)

Striker, if I didn't recall Ms.McClain's name. I'm certainly not one to speculate on her being named to her new position, or on her job performance. It would be best if you ask one who knows Ms.McClain.

[nijinski]

I think it's ridiculous to subject the entrants to be moved three days in advaance . Even Matz commented on this timing of new rules . Well , he made a joke about them.
This is the Belmont Stakes .They know they are under the scope and full
scrutiny. Are they gonna try to cheat Saturday ?
O'Neill will be serving his time and is paying his dues with the bad press . They might as well have said we don't want you or your horse here.

I hate to be knocking NYRA when they have their hands full , but did they
just decide to care about the welfare of the horses and the wagering public ?
On Belmont Stakes Day! The thought of anyone especially O'Neil attempting to cheat on Saturday , under the current atmosphere is mind boggling.
This decisision was made in haste , way too quickly.

John Sabini , former Democratic politician seems proud of these new ridiculous rules . NYRA really needed to step up and say no to this overcompensation.

[Grits]

None of these politicians care anything about this sport, or about these horses. Not a thing. The problems between NYRA and state government will continue. Sadly, this event can't even go on without being mired knee deep with the rules, the last minute changes, the accusations, etc. etc.

IMHO, when all is said and done come Saturday evening.

It's the horse that does the running.

It's the horse that is remembered.

It's the horse that goes down in history, either as the 12th Triple Crown winner, or as the one who upset, thwarted the Triple Crown once again.

One could list all 11 Triple Crown Winners without the aid of Google. I don't know about others, but I couldn't list the trainer of each horse.

Trainers don't make history on the level that horses do. The trainer is not remembered as the horse is.

Though, as an aside--I'll never forget Billy Turner and Slew. You rarely hear one's name without the other.

[nijinski]

None of these politicians care anything about this sport, or about these horses. Not a thing. The problems between NYRA and state government will continue. Sadly, this event can't even go on without being mired knee deep with the rules, the last minute changes, the accusations, etc. etc.

IMHO, when all is said and done come Saturday evening.

It's the horse that does the running.

It's the horse that is remembered.

It's the horse that goes down in history, either as the 12th Triple Crown winner, or as the one who upset, thwarted the Triple Crown once again.

One could list all 11 Triple Crown Winners without the aid of Google. I don't know about others, but I couldn't list the trainer of each horse.

Trainers don't make history on the level that horses do. The trainer is not remembered as the horse is.

Though, as an aside--I'll never forget Billy Turner and Slew. You rarely hear one's name without the other.
You are so right Grits.

Off topic for a quick . I have for a long time wanted qualifications or whatever standards for the Hall Of Fame put aside to induct Turner . For what he'accomplished with Slew. It's a shame he hasn't been.

[Saratoga_Mike]

[
It bothers me when folks get in a snit about things that they lack knowledge of. People who are blaming the detention barn (for this Belmont) on Doug O'Neill's being a cheater. These same individuals, apparently, have never been aware that "its been done" before! The detention barn isn't something new. Nor are they aware of the problems NYRA is facing with the governor's office. They have no clue on these things. (These are women that I'm speaking of that, I guess, don't know anything about NY racing.) -- These opinions, I noted, came after DRF reported that Dale Romans was displeased.

But the detention barn protocols are much more rigorous than in the past, no? Seems newsworthy to me

[Grits]

Seems newsworthy to me

Jay Hovdey thought the detention barn newsworthy, and so did I. Otherwise, I wouldn't have provided the link, here, for the board.

[Striker]

Was just seeing if you had some thoughts on her now being in charge of NYRA. No big deal.

[Grits]

You're a good man, Striker. Sorry, I didn't have a better answer.

Northbound for NYC and Belmont Park.

Later, guys. ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Jay Hovdey thought the detention barn newsworthy, and so did I. Otherwise, I wouldn't have provided the link, here, for the board.

I must have been confused by your post.