Ohh Mostie won't like this....about Unions...

[newtothegame]

Improving Life for Workers

May 30, 2012
"If globalism leads to a "race to the bottom," why do 95 percent of American workers make more than minimum wage? It's not because companies are generous, but because competition forces them to offer higher wages to attract good workers. Companies may move jobs overseas to escape high U.S. wages (or U.S. taxes and regulations), but they clearly prefer to keep jobs here, close to their headquarters, suppliers and customers.
The best way to help workers is to get the government to butt out and let competitive markets work."

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2012/05/30/improving_life_for_workers

[badcompany]

Union attempt to raise wages by limiting the supply of labor.

This is no longer possible because of the increased mobility that companies have, as a result of globalization. With the exception of a few strongholds, it's over for unions in the private sector.

What raises wages, "naturally" is increased productivity.

If consider why, after a snowstorm, a guy with a snow blower can make more than a guy with a snow shovel, you'll understand what makes wages rise.

[mostpost]

Improving Life for Workers

May 30, 2012
"If globalism leads to a "race to the bottom," why do 95 percent of American workers make more than minimum wage? It's not because companies are generous, but because competition forces them to offer higher wages to attract good workers. Companies may move jobs overseas to escape high U.S. wages (or U.S. taxes and regulations), but they clearly prefer to keep jobs here, close to their headquarters, suppliers and customers.
The best way to help workers is to get the government to butt out and let competitive markets work."

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnstossel/2012/05/30/improving_life_for_workers
It doesn't matter if I like it or not. The fact is it is wrong. Companies pay the least that they have to. When there is a surplus of labor they pay even less.
Companies decide what they think a job is worth and they pay that amount. That does not mean that the job is actually worth only that amount, but an individual worker seeking a job has no leverage to dispute that. The prospective employer will simply say, "You don't want to work for $7.25 an hour? Well, there are ten guys waiting outside that door who are willing to work for that and less."

Businesses will always try to maximize profits and the easiest way to do that is to minimize wages. Most jobs are of the nature that anyone can do them competently. The job market now, and for most of the last 30 years is such that workers are very reluctant to change jobs. All the power is in the hands of the businesses.

[Saratoga_Mike]

It doesn't matter if I like it or not. The fact is it is wrong. Companies pay the least that they have to. When there is a surplus of labor they pay even less.
Companies decide what they think a job is worth and they pay that amount. That does not mean that the job is actually worth only that amount, but an individual worker seeking a job has no leverage to dispute that. The prospective employer will simply say, "You don't want to work for $7.25 an hour? Well, there are ten guys waiting outside that door who are willing to work for that and less."

Businesses will always try to maximize profits and the easiest way to do that is to minimize wages. Most jobs are of the nature that anyone can do them competently. The job market now, and for most of the last 30 years is such that workers are very reluctant to change jobs. All the power is in the hands of the businesses.

Really?

[Tom]

I think he believes all that.

Sad.
And yet funny.


Most jobs are of the nature that anyone can do them competently.

Which makes anyone who pays a premium for having them done is a fool.
Why not hire those who will do them for $7 instead of those who want $10?

Here is a clue mostie, if you want to make more money, make yourself more valuable - focus on you, not the job. If you want to be stagnant, offer nothing outstanding, and just be another clock number, join a union.

[mostpost]

Union attempt to raise wages by limiting the supply of labor.
Doesn't this contradict your theory that unions are trying to "featherbed" jobs so they can get more members and more dues. So which is it?

This is no longer possible because of the increased mobility that companies have, as a result of globalization. With the exception of a few strongholds, it's over for unions in the private sector.
Unions are in trouble now because of anti union bias from the party that has controlled the White House 20 of the last 31 years. And because of short sighted workers who decide they won't join a union because they get the benefits anyway. But those benefits can be taken away easier than they were won.

What raises wages, "naturally" is increased productivity.
Then perhaps you can explain why, while productivity has increased 64% since 1980, average wages have only increased by 15%-by 6% when expressed in 2010 dollars.

If consider why, after a snowstorm, a guy with a snow blower can make more than a guy with a snow shovel, you'll understand what makes wages rise.

I have to write something here otherwise the site will think I have written nothing.

[bigmack]

While productivity has increased 64% since 1980, average wages have only increased by 15%-by 6% when expressed in 2010 dollars.
Out of your backside you get numbers?

From SSA. Take a gander at 1980 & 2010.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/NationalAverageWageIndex.png
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

But then, you're ignorant enough to believe if a companies profit increases by 25%, workers pay should increase 25%. That's what we call, Now Thinking from Mars.

[badcompany]

But then, you're ignorant enough to believe if a companies profit increases by 25%, workers pay should increase 25%. That's what we call, Now Thinking from Mars.

Notice that the best he can do is cite "bias" as the reason for the decline. None of the major pro-union legistlation has been overturned, most of which has been around since the 1930s.

The union model with its long term contracts and endless workplace rules and regulations is just not gonna cut it in a fast changing, high tech world.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Out of your backside you get numbers?

From SSA. Take a gander at 1980 & 2010.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/NationalAverageWageIndex.png
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

But then, you're ignorant enough to believe if a companies profit increases by 25%, workers pay should increase 25%. That's what we call, Now Thinking from Mars.

I believe MP was referring to wages in real terms. I believe your data is in nominal terms. If you look at total compensation in real terms, the numbers grow more robustly. Rising healthcare costs (part of total comp) have hampered wage growth, among other factors.

[newtothegame]

Mostie will never get that concept Bad,.....he lives in an antiquated world, where even he says that most jobs anyone can do.
Wait till Walker wins in the recall in Wisconsin...he just may flip his lid lol:lol:

[badcompany]

I have to write something here otherwise the site will think I have written nothing.

Featherbedding is a way for the newer Union members to subsidize the salaries of the senior members. For the Unions with which I'm familair, the two-tier structure was a giveback to management. Given their druthers, unions would give everyone full salary from the get go.

It's not a contradiction as much as a paradox. On one hand unions want as many members as possible, but, their practice of wage price control ensures that this can't happen.

[badcompany]

Mostie will never get that concept Bad,.....he lives in an antiquated world, where even he says that most jobs anyone can do.
Wait till Walker wins in the recall in Wisconsin...he just may flip his lid lol:lol:

Here's another wet blanket for Mostie and Hcap who yearn for the good ol' days of the 1950s:


Longing for jobs we used to hate

Michael Barone

I don’t know how many times I’ve seen liberal commentators look back with nostalgia to the days when a young man fresh out of high school or military service could get a well-paying job on an assembly line at a unionized auto factory that could carry him to a comfortable retirement.

As it happens, I grew up in Detroit and for a time lived next door to factory workers, so I know something that has eluded the liberal nostalgiacs — which is that people hated those jobs. Assembly-line work was boring and repetitive. Management had imbibed Frederick W. Taylor’s theories that workers were stupid and couldn’t be trusted with any initiative.

The thousands of pages of work rules in the United Auto Workers contract, which forbade assembly-line speedups, also barred any initiative or flexible response.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/longing_for_jobs_we_used_to_hate_OZZwrIMrEfWhGCtbA 4E7IM#ixzz1wOJQVJ2Q

[mostpost]

Mostie will never get that concept Bad,.....he lives in an antiquated world, where even he says that most jobs anyone can do.
Wait till Walker wins in the recall in Wisconsin...he just may flip his lid lol:lol:

You're talking about occupations, I am talking about jobs. Occupations being things like factory worker, truck driver, teacher, electrician, doctor, lawyer, etc. Jobs being the total number of people engaged in those jobs. I'm sure there are a lot more people working in factories, as truck drivers or as sales associates than as lawyers and doctors. That is what I mean when I say most jobs anyone can do. But if it makes you happier, I will say most jobs most people can do.

As for Walker, we shall see on Tuesday shalln't we?

[Saratoga_Mike]

You're talking about occupations, I am talking about jobs. Occupations being things like factory worker, truck driver, teacher, electrician, doctor, lawyer, etc. Jobs being the total number of people engaged in those jobs. I'm sure there are a lot more people working in factories, as truck drivers or as sales associates than as lawyers and doctors. That is what I mean when I say most jobs anyone can do. But if it makes you happier, I will say most jobs most people can do.

As for Walker, we shall see on Tuesday shalln't we?

Walker is 94.8 on intrade.com to win (payout is 100 if he wins). Great short if you think he loses.

[newtothegame]

Wisconsin unions see ranks drop ahead of recall vote

Published May 31, 2012

The Wall Street Journal




Public-employee unions in Wisconsin have experienced a dramatic drop in membership -- by more than half for the second-biggest union -- since a law championed by Republican Gov. Scott Walker sharply curtailed their ability to bargain over wages and working conditions.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/31/wisconsin-unions-see-ranks-drop-ahead-recall-vote/?test=latestnews#ixzz1wWtlfFYZ