Apparently, Arlington has rented the Gulfstream timer

[cj]

All kinds of missing fractions and bogus times the past few weeks.

[illinoisbred]

All kinds of missing fractions and bogus times the past few weeks.
Was mostly confined to timer malfunctions in turf races but this past week had several misstimed, or just missing times on the poly.

[Tom]

Nice way to respect your customers.
Wonder if they can even spell it?

Another joke of a track off my list.

[maclr11]

What's the big issue
Time only matters in jail

[jdhanover]

Wouldn't call the track a joke becuase of some mechanical issues. Would hope they go back and fix whatever times are off (based on replays etc). My experience is that management is beginning to realize that the bettor is their customer. Will take some time, but slowly getting there.

[Tom]

Gee, I thought time mattered in RACES!:rolleyes:

It's not the mechanical failures, it is the handling of them them.
When the BECOME customer oriented, call me.
Until then AP remains a joke.

[illinoisbred]

Wouldn't call the track a joke becuase of some mechanical issues. Would hope they go back and fix whatever times are off (based on replays etc). My experience is that management is beginning to realize that the bettor is their customer. Will take some time, but slowly getting there.
Agree jd.....but perhaps they really should consider abandoning rail placements from which they can't accurately time races. Thinking of the lane 5 races with the rail 15'or 23' out as it was the entire 1st week of the meet. I really wish they'd go back to having 2 courses...the inner and outer.

[illinoisbred]

Gee, I thought time mattered in RACES!:rolleyes:

It's not the mechanical failures, it is the handling of them them.
When the BECOME customer oriented, call me.
Until then AP remains a joke.
Agree...wish it mattered to those that matter.

[maclr11]

Can you name the 84 classic winner
Yes
Can you name the time? No

Can you name the 72 derby winner
Yes
CAn u name the time? No

[illinoisbred]

Can you name the 84 classic winner
Yes
Can you name the time? No

Can you name the 72 derby winner
Yes
CAn u name the time? No
I don't think anyone out of either race is going to show up at a track near you or me in the next few weeks....so what's the point you're trying to make here?

[jdhanover]

Agree jd.....but perhaps they really should consider abandoning rail placements from which they can't accurately time races. Thinking of the lane 5 races with the rail 15'or 23' out as it was the entire 1st week of the meet. I really wish they'd go back to having 2 courses...the inner and outer.

Good point! I hadnt thought about this, but moving the rail does impact time etc. (even if accurately measured)

[Tom]

Can you BET the 84 classic winner
No
Can you name the time? No

Can you BET the 72 derby winner
No
Can u name the time? No

FTFY....btw, have your actually bet on a horse race?

[Robert Fischer]

gulfstream
http://www.snappdragon.com/images/sundial_father_time_cast_iron.jpg

[Jessica Pacheco]

I brought it with me, ha! ;)

[Jeff P]

HANA Blog Tues 05/29/2012
A Little Respect For the Horseplayer Please:
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2012/05/little-respect-for-horseplayer-please.html

This is one example of what CJ is talking about. (There are others.)


-jp

.

[Valuist]

This actually can be an advantage for a handicapper, IMO, as long as they take notes watching races and keep charts. One can make judgements as to whether or not the pace is fast by how strung out the field is. Bunched field figure its a slow pace; strung out 12 or more lengths and you know the pace is fast.

[cj]

Wouldn't call the track a joke becuase of some mechanical issues. Would hope they go back and fix whatever times are off (based on replays etc). My experience is that management is beginning to realize that the bettor is their customer. Will take some time, but slowly getting there.

I agree, but how sad is it that fans have to bring this stuff up? It may be mainly turf, but it isn't the only problem. Just Sunday there is a missing half mile call from a mile dirt race, and that same thing has happened before. There was even a turf race a few weeks ago with fractions reported, but no final time? How is that even possible?

Obviously they know, yet nobody seems to do anything to fix it. This tells me they don't care. This didn't start yesterday. It has been weeks already, and some of these issues were happening last year as well.

[jdhanover]

CJ - good point...maybe we can get an answer from AP either on here or at the Outing.

[maclr11]

My point is that people remember who won but not how fast
It's more about who you beat and how you beat them
I realize some people are very keen on figures and times I just ask you to try to use those methods at a track like mine where the 3/8 pole is out of line and 2,500 claimers roll the last 3/16ths in 17 2/5 going 7 1/2 furlongs
Then try to have confidence in time anywhere

[BlueShoe]

I really wish they'd go back to having 2 courses...the inner and outer.
Wish they would dump the plastic and go back to the dirt main. Used to really like the old AP meet, but have had problems with the plastic since it's installation. Perhaps it is just me and my handicapping, but have trouble projecting a probable paceline. The fractions seem to bounce all over the place from race to race with pretty much the same bunch of horses, same class, and same distance on this goofy fake stuff. Sure, some varience is to be expected, but just seems that it is more pronounced and common on the AP main. :bang:

[Striker]

maybe we can get an answer from AP either on here or at the Outing.
I almost guarantee you will get an answer from Dave Zenner regarding this. The fact of the matter is that this has been going on since May 5th(the 2nd day of the meet)and that shouldn't be the way that you or any horseplayer gets an answer to a somewhat important thing to most handicappers.

[mikesal57]

chart was fixed..

when? why? because?

all questions

Are there proof readers after the fact?

is this really the tracks fault or chart makers?

[jdhanover]

chart was fixed..



No it wasn't - my horse still lost! :lol:

[mikesal57]

maybe next fix puts him in winner circle...

:cool:

[sammy the sage]

Times, figures...or any OTHER measuring you wanna try to use...don't matter THERE anyways...just so's you know... :faint:

[njcurveball]

HANA Blog Tues 05/29/2012
A Little Respect For the Horseplayer Please:
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2012/05/little-respect-for-horseplayer-please.html

This is one example of what CJ is talking about. (There are others.)


-jp

.

Thought I posted this before, but this was posted on the HTR board right after it happened.

Curiously enough the picture on the HANA page is the exact same picture, I guess great Screen Captures think alike.

http://homebased2.com/forums/showthread.php?p=110036#post110036

[PaceAdvantage]

What exactly are you trying to say NJ?

[Jeff P]

Watch the race replay. After the horses cross the wire the first time during the "live" view of the race - a follow up slow motion frame by frame replay of the horses approaching the wire is shown. After that, a close up frame by frame slow motion replay is shown. This close up slow motion replay freezes at exactly the point where I took the screenshot.

BTW, Jessica, if you happen to read this, tell them I absolutely LOVE this third close up slow mo replay. Imo, all tracks should consider providing this.

Because the video where the close up slow motion replay freezes at the point where the 3 horses were together at the wire, it was an easy shot to get - and because it contained the track's graphics to indicate the numbers for the top two finishers and another indicator for a photo finish:

Using that screenshot seemed like a no brainer to me.



-jp

.

[cj]

Thought I posted this before, but this was posted on the HTR board right after it happened.

Curiously enough the picture on the HANA page is the exact same picture, I guess great Screen Captures think alike.

http://homebased2.com/forums/showthread.php?p=110036#post110036

It was, I deleted it, I didn't see the point. I guess it was really important to you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well once an ass, always an ass.How very uncivilized of you...I don't think DanG would be proud...

[PaceAdvantage]

Too late buddy...I'm too quick for you NJ...

[cj]

I really didn't think it was a big deal. I just didn't see the point of posting a copy of a message from another board. If that makes me an ass, so be it I guess.

[cj]

Well, if anything, the timer is getting worse. I'm seeing more and more missing times, and a few reported times that are wrong.

[jdhanover]

Remind me next week to ask Arlington folks about the timer issue(s).

Rather than get on each other's case...let's see if we can help make a positive change.

[Jeff P]

I disagree with the "kid gloves" approach. It's been tried by the data vendors and Equibase - and it's not working.

What you don't know is that data vendors (like HDW) are constantly finding mistimed races. In turn, they bring those mistimed races to the attention of Equibase.

Equibase, in turn, is constantly going to track management (and not just Arlington) about mistimed races.

As a result, the races in question (days later) are given a second look (from video) and (where possible) revised charts are cut.

This is an ongoing problem (and not just for Arlington.)

Someone needs to take the gloves off and "thwack" track management across the top of the head - because clearly track management (and this includes Arlington but is not limited to Arlington) has so far failed to take the problem seriously enough to address it.


-jp

.

[Tom]

Maybe the tracks need to be told that we will withhold all wagers from them until they start operating like professionals and not amateurs.

Tracks like Arlington need to classified as "not betable."

[cj]

I disagree with the "kid gloves" approach. It's been tried by the data vendors and Equibase - and it's not working.

What you don't know is that data vendors (like HDW) are constantly finding mistimed races. In turn, they bring those mistimed races to the attention of Equibase.



Equibase does a good job and are very helpful as you know. In the end, it is their job to report data, not to time races.

What Jeff says is 100% correct about mistimed races. It way worse these days than most people would imagine. This goes for fractional and final times. It is so common I've built safeguards into all my programs and I think I catch nearly all the phony times, but it is still ridiculous that this happens in 2012. This is one area where Equibase could improve, their safeguards are a bit too liberal in my opinion.

[cj]

Well, at least now we know it isn't just a turf race issue. Rubber races are missing fractions left and right these days. Nice track.

[ArlJim78]

Dave Zenner (dzenner@arlingtonpark.com (dzenner@arlingtonpark.com)) of the Arlington marketing department was good enough to sit down with us to talk about the timer issues they have experienced this year. He prefaced his comments by saying that none of this is acceptable and they do not want this to be viewed as merely excuses. I took some notes on the back of my racing form but then left my form at the track so I’m going from memory. If anyone feels like they want to clarify any of this feel free to contact Dave directly.

The main problem happened earlier in the meet when their machine which processes the signals from the timer eyes on the turf course failed. Only the turf signals were affected. The scramble to get it up and running again didn’t go very well. The technicians recommended replacing the motherboard. That didn’t work. They shipped in another motherboard, still didn’twork. Then they decided to replace the entire machine. Once the new machine was installed the problem went away and it functioned normally again.

The problem is that this whole process took approximately two weeks. During that time the turf races were hand timed, and the fractions were manually tripped. They had people looking through binoculars upstairs and tripping the fractional timer when they saw the horses pass the particular timer position. I think it’s easy to envision how this manual backup timing system would be very susceptible to errors, given the number of turf lanes and various timer positions.

Dave also recounted two other instances where faulty internal communication procedures resulted in some bad data getting out. Again these were both turf related.

One day the turf course was scheduled to go in lane 5 which was communicated via emails to those who need to know. However sometime that morning a decision was made on the ground to run in lane 4 rather than 5 given that lane 5 was too beat up. This late lane change was not confirmed or communicated properly through channels. So while horses were running in lane 4 they were collecting the times off of the lane 5 timer eyes. So basically the three turf races run that day had incorrect numbers.

Then on another day a 5.5 furlong turf race was improperly scheduled for lane one, which as I understand it based on the course configuration should never have happened. The time reported was not even close, and I believe that equibase didn’t even accept it.

Dave said that they have reviewed their internal procedures and made the necessary changes to prevent these types of problems from recurring.

Yesterday I followed up with Dave regarding that last comment left by cj regarding the main track. He wasn't aware of any problems but did check with their timer. The response is that other than one race which had some kind of timer malfunction or a faulty fractional trip, they weren't aware of any main track issues with the timing. Again, Dave can be reached directly for further clarification.

Finally, my personal observation is that what was said here earlier that tracks take this stuff too lightly is probably true. What they really need is to adopt quality control principles like we have to do in my industry. Quality audits, corrective action reports, etc. Tracks should have their own data review processes in place and reliable backup systems. Their goal should be to validate their data before passing it on to other parties. The reliability of they data that they they pass on should be much higher imo.

[jdhanover]

Thanks, Jim for posting this so that everyone could benefit from the explanation. I can also tell you that in 3 differnet conversations Dave was very clear that none of it was excusable, but it was explainable.

One slight, but important correction - the races were NEVER manually timed. The electronic eyes were manually activated. In other words, once the horse passed the first eye, a person manually activated the next one which then read the horses tripping it electronically. That automatic flipping of the next eye was what the machine was supposed to do but failed to do so.

[ArlJim78]

Thanks for the correction Jon, that is an important point. I would have liked to have had more time to clarify that stuff more precisely, but with everything else going on around us it was hard. Plus the fact I forgot my notes didn't help either.

[Steve 'StatMan']

A Big Thank You to Dave Zenner of AP for sharing this information!

[Valuist]

For grass racing, trip notes supercede figs. Between AP and GP, the best thing to do is to watch the races/replays and make your own visual observations. Field strung out or boxed together?

I noticed a big timer discrepancy the other day for a Churchill race. It was a 7f race in early June and Formulator had very slow fractions; :25 and change and :49 yet when I looked on Equibase, it showed :22 and change and :45 and change; much more believable fractions.

[jdhanover]

One other thing Dave noted is that NO timer system is fail-safe (unfortunately). He said if a timer trips prematurely for whatever reason and there is still 6 or more seconds until they get to that timer, then they usually can reset the timer to get the right time. But if it trips very close to when the horses get there then there is no way to reset it in time. In theory if it trips close to the time the horses get ther (say a half-second early) it is possible it wont even be noticed.
Lots of things can trip the timers apparently as it is not an unusual occurrence.

[davew]

I wish time of races started when gates open rather than when the first horse passed the electronic eye a little ways up the track - some horses are already 3 lengths behind.

I understand the desire to be able to have the starting gate at variable locations for the same location, especially for turf races as I imagine the original surges at thst start are probably rough on the turf.

[PhantomOnTour]

I wish time of races started when gates open rather than when the first horse passed the electronic eye a little ways up the track - some horses are already 3 lengths behind.

I understand the desire to be able to have the starting gate at variable locations for the same location, especially for turf races as I imagine the original surges at thst start are probably rough on the turf.
Exactly...seems a lot less prone to error (something tripping the timing beam)if the timer began when the bell rang and the gates sprang.
Agree on the turf issue also...just provide data describing how far the gate was moved.

Ofcourse your fractional splits would have to be activated by a timing beam, but we would have a true final timing of the race from the actual start to the finish.

[cj]

Yesterday I followed up with Dave regarding that last comment left by cj regarding the main track. He wasn't aware of any problems but did check with their timer. The response is that other than one race which had some kind of timer malfunction or a faulty fractional trip, they weren't aware of any main track issues with the timing. Again, Dave can be reached directly for further clarification.



The turf stuff is bad, but at least it seems like they are trying. The above though, well, sounds like a lot of hot air to me. One race on rubber? Really?

Here is what I see in the charts:

Rubber Track:
June 10th, Race 2, No 1/2 mile fraction
June 20th, Race 1, No 1/2 mile fraction
June 20th, Race 6, No 1/4 mile fraction
June 20th, Race 9, No 1/2 mile fraction
June 27th, Race 3, No 1/2 mile fraction (and add in either the final time or the 3/4 fraction is a joke, unless you believe they ran the last 1/4 in a tick under 31 SECONDS!)

Grass Track:
June 10th, Race 3, No Fractions or final time, (HILARIOUS)

I will try to reach Dave tomorrow, but in all honesty, I'm getting sick and tired of being quality control for racetracks.

[ArlJim78]

I figured you would have some examples, that's why I brought it up to him. I agree 100%. This is basic stuff here. Everyone can understand a component failure or other random act of god, but to routinely distribute data with obvious errors or missing fractions is inexcusable.

Another way to look at it, do they accept the same degree of inaccuracy and incompleteness from the tellers and cashiers when they total out their tills at the end of the day?

Not just picking on Arlington because from what I hear it happens all over.

[cj]

Not just picking on Arlington because from what I hear it happens all over.

It does, but in all honesty, most of the other tracks where this happens, save Gulfstream, are far lower in class. A few examples are Lone Star, Evangeline Downs, Ruidoso, and Boise (I know, who cares) may as well just make times up. But I guess I've just kind of given up on those and others. Arlington should be better.

[Tom]

The bottom line is this is a joke of a game,.
One cannot call it professional by any stretch of the imagination.

Even with Trakus the MORONS who run racing have no clue.
I think we might be off with far less than half the tracks closing up shop - all we really need is 3 or 4 well run tracks to cover the entire country. Face it, high school sports are FAR more hi tech and better run than many race tracks. When you look at how far most pro sports have come technology-wise,then you look at racing and we have regressed back to the Pittsburg Phil days, where the only information you can trust is your own private clockers, because horse racing is too stupid to know how to time a........FRIGGIN RACE!!!

Looking at 3 horse field coming up at PM......gee, this game is just so danged entertaining! And a $100 grand race, too. :sleeping:

I gotta have my head examined to even bother with this stupid game.
This could be the year.

[bigmack]

The bottom line is this is a joke of a game,.
One cannot call it professional by any stretch of the imagination.
Mind boggling. As with the other timing brouhaha, I can't figure out how it is cj is the only fig guy calling attention to it. Funny HDW isn't hounding this caper as well.

Imprecise times are NOT negotiable. What is this, All Star Wrestling?

This dysfunctional game needs a czar er somethin'.

[Tom]

Come on, WWE is far more hi-tech than racing ever will be! :lol:
I just watched Smackdown and Prairie Meadows, afterward.......no comparsion what was more entertaining. :lol:

[Striker]

At least Dooley isn't even wasting his time announcing them anymore, like today's 5th race. The 1st 1/4 mile came up 20 and 3/5. He was about to announce it and then thought better of it, and didn't. In the chart you obviously have a N/A for this 1/4.

[cj]

At least Dooley isn't even wasting his time announcing them anymore, like today's 5th race. The 1st 1/4 mile came up 20 and 3/5. He was about to announce it and then thought better of it, and didn't. In the chart you obviously have a N/A for this 1/4.

The rest of the times for the race won't be reliable either. Congratulations Arlington, you are now on par with Boise and Will Rogers.

[thaskalos]

While handicapping today's (Sunday's) 7th race at Arlington...I couldn't help but notice the May 26th race of the #5 horse Here Qui Go Again (second from the top).

The race was run at a mile on Arlington's turf course, with the fractions of :25.8 - :52.0 - 1.17.6 - 1:40.2...meaning that the individual quarters were run in 25.8 - 26.2 - 25.6 - 22.6 !!

What's a 21st century pace handicapper to do? :)

[illinoisbred]

While handicapping today's (Sunday's) 7th race at Arlington...I couldn't help but notice the May 26th race of the #5 horse Here Qui Go Again (second from the top).

The race was run at a mile on Arlington's turf course, with the fractions of :25.8 - :52.0 - 1.17.6 - 1:40.2...meaning that the individual quarters were run in 25.8 - 26.2 - 25.6 - 22.6 !!

What's a 21st century pace handicapper to do? :)
The race you cite is totally whacked. I hand timed the race 6 times and all efforts came up with a final time between 1:38.09 -1:38.62. Way too difficult to obtain the fractions with the obstruction of the "little woods" and camera angles. Best to disregard the race altogether. I have to say its been a nightmarish meet for those of us concerned about accurate timing of ALL races,poly and turf.

[Tom]

What's a 21st century pace handicapper to do?

Don't support tracks that don't support you.
With simulcasting, no one has to accept this kind of slap in the face from any two-bit track.

I wouldn't play AP with your bankroll.

[cj]

While handicapping today's (Sunday's) 7th race at Arlington...I couldn't help but notice the May 26th race of the #5 horse Here Qui Go Again (second from the top).

The race was run at a mile on Arlington's turf course, with the fractions of :25.8 - :52.0 - 1.17.6 - 1:40.2...meaning that the individual quarters were run in 25.8 - 26.2 - 25.6 - 22.6 !!

What's a 21st century pace handicapper to do? :)

That is a good one, but I'm not sure the 31 second final 1/4 from a few days ago can be topped. We have people not far from that speed.

[illinoisbred]

That is a good one, but I'm not sure the 31 second final 1/4 from a few days ago can be topped. We have people not far from that speed.
The 3rd race from last wednesday's card? Yeah,very dubious considering the 1/2 came up as 43.1 before it was taken down.

[Valuist]

The race you cite is totally whacked. I hand timed the race 6 times and all efforts came up with a final time between 1:38.09 -1:38.62. Way too difficult to obtain the fractions with the obstruction of the "little woods" and camera angles. Best to disregard the race altogether. I have to say its been a nightmarish meet for those of us concerned about accurate timing of ALL races,poly and turf.

I hand timed the final 3/8th a couple times with my cell phone. Certainly not 100% accurate but I got the same clocking in both instances: 35.0. That 22 and change may not be far off. Lets face it, they crawled so slowly for most of the race, little energy had been expended. One thing we can all agree on: the race shape was very slow early/fast late.

[illinoisbred]

I hand timed the final 3/8th a couple times with my cell phone. Certainly not 100% accurate but I got the same clocking in both instances: 35.0. That 22 and change may not be far off. Lets face it, they crawled so slowly for most of the race, little energy had been expended. One thing we can all agree on: the race shape was very slow early/fast late.
Yes,I certainly agree.

[BIG49010]

It makes for some interesting handicapping, that shows the power of the Beyer figures, and the lack of common sense on the part of the people betting the races.

The 9th race winner received a 56 Beyer in a hand timed race, so some threw out the horse, giving you a 8-1 odds.

They completely leave out the logic, that he ran 2nd to a next out winner and the 3rd place horse came back to beat most of the field by 2 3/4 lengths and the 2nd place horse who was in that field earned a 69 Beyer.

My question is will Beyer go back and adjust these races?

[cj]

The 5th race on Saturday was at 6f on the rubber, no 1/4 mile time reported. I haven't timed it yet, but the 1/2 mile to final time comparison looks pretty fishy.

[jeebus1083]

What about Mountaineer's turf course? A lot of those times are suspect too, IMO.

[PhantomOnTour]

The only all weather track i make figs for is KEE; i did my research and began making figs for AP this year....i stopped on June 2.
Nothing made sense.

[bigmack]

i did my research and began making figs for AP this year....i stopped on June 2.
Nothing made sense.

How is it Internetville becomes a third dimension where people can't crack into the real woild?

I see "Dandy" Dave Zenner threw out a bone about turf but he's the marketing guy. You mean to tell me, people are typing here about issues they've seen for over a month and NOBODY can figure out how to CALL the racing office and ax why their times are kittywampus?

If I cared, I would have called the same day. Are all of you that portray yourselves as men actually meek, female librarians who don't own a phone?

[PhantomOnTour]

How is it Internetville becomes a third dimension where people can't crack into the real woild?

I see "Dandy" Dave Zenner threw out a bone about turf but he's the marketing guy. You mean to tell me, people are typing here about issues they've seen for over a month and NOBODY can figure out how to CALL the racing office and ax why their times are kittywampus?

If I cared, I would have called the same day. Are all of you that portray yourselves as men actually meek, female librarians who don't own a phone?

You haven't read the thread, have you?
AP is aware (and has been for some time) of their timing issue.
I guess i could call and remind them though...

How you gonna suggest we're "female librarians" when you used a word like kittywampus?
Kittywampus :D

[riskman]

If you do not care, why bother with the little goils. A few seconds here a few seconds there, what the hell its only a horsey race. Some pony hit the wire and the rest eventually followed.

[bigmack]

Kittywampus :D
Hey, kittywampus is very hip. Very today. Very now.

Now scratch the librarian thang and riddle me this. You're saying you were doing AP figs, and they were so erroneous you pulled the plug on AP altogether ("We pulled the plug on AP") and you don't feel compelled to call?

If nothing else, this should be made public on a much broader scale. No track is viable if they don't take the exactness of their times EXTREMELY SERIOUS.

I guess I go back to my earlier hypothesis. This game IS like All Star Wrestling.

Speakin' o' which, have you seen one of the most illegal moves of all time?

Enjoy.

ejQFkSFDpn8
Courtesy ChickHead

[PhantomOnTour]

The snake charmer move is the greatest wrestling move ever...wonder if anyone in the crowd was put under.
Now lemme go, i have a serious game of tiddlywinks to play....and yeah, it's a hip game....a very now game.

[Charli125]

Now scratch the librarian thang and riddle me this. You're saying you were doing AP figs, and they were so erroneous you pulled the plug on AP altogether ("We pulled the plug on AP") and you don't feel compelled to call?

I think maybe you're not familiar with how many calls have been made, emails sent, and conversations had. I saw HDW mentioned earlier and know that they've brought up errors many times. Several software vendors and figure makers have complained directly to the tracks as well.

It's not like we have people on here bitching about the problems and not doing anything about it. They're doing something about it, and then making everyone else aware of the issue here.

[tbwinner]

Talk about more timer issues today... half in 1:07 and 1 1/8 final in 2:10 for the 9th?!?!?. What a joke!

[cj]

Talk about more timer issues today... half in 1:07 and 1 1/8 final in 2:10 for the 9th?!?!?. What a joke!

Those guys are really busting their ass to get this fixed. It is obviously a huge concern.

[Striker]

Your best chance is that it will be somewhat fixed for the Million.

[sammy the sage]

Your best chance is that it will be somewhat fixed for the Million.

That'll be the NEXT day I'll actually place a wager on a race HELD there...

Local times WON'T matter...neither will local jock colony... :rolleyes:

[Show Me the Wire]

AP has been a minor circuit for a long time.

[jdhanover]

FWIW I contacted AP and they are having all kinds of problems with the 1/2 mile timer and have the company that makes the timers coming to try to fix it. They are working on it, albeit not as quickly as we'd like to see them fix it.

[cj]

I'll throw out a suggestion...BUY A NEW ONE!

[Steve 'StatMan']

AP's needed a new timer system for many years. So has Hawthorne. This year, AP has started doing what Hawthorne stareted within the last couple of years - they no longer pay the timer company for one of time company's employees to run the timer system. Instead, they now have press box staff run it. Not sure who they are, of if ther are multiple ones, or even if employ same press box people between AP and HAW (last I knew AP had a long-standing policy of not employing HAW people - as often as possible - to avoid letting anynne associated with HAW know what AP - like it ever worked or frankly mattered.)

[Striker]

They are working on it, albeit not as quickly as we'd like to see them fix it.
It has been going on basically since the start of the meet though. That puts it at the 2 month mark right now.

[Tom]

Instead, they now have press box staff run it.

What does the tack program seller/Track vet think about that?

How do you spell cheap?

A-R-L.........

How can you consider them a legitimate race track when they refuse to time the races correctly?

I could NEVER place a bet there again. Ever.

[bigmack]

Problem like this could be corrected with what, a trip to RadioShack to get 10 timers and 10 motion sensors? Hell, 20 of each just in case the first 10 blow up.

Confidence of those involved in problem solving within this laughably dysfunctional game is at an all time low.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lky5llDXkY1qe0eclo1_500.gif

[Valuist]

They had a race late in the day on the 4th over the grass and I was looking at the Equibase chart. No fractional times whatsoever. Just a final time.

FWIW, I had that pace as above average. Not supersonic but solid. Definitely have to make daily notes w/their turf races. But anytime we can get an edge, why not take it?

[Saratoga_Mike]

What does the tack program seller/Track vet think about that?

How do you spell cheap?

A-R-L.........

How can you consider them a legitimate race track when they refuse to time the races correctly?

I could NEVER place a bet there again. Ever.

Over the course of the past yr you've ruled out betting on NYRA, CD and now AP. You're gonna run out of tracks soon, or just be left with FL.

[illinoisbred]

They had a race late in the day on the 4th over the grass and I was looking at the Equibase chart. No fractional times whatsoever. Just a final time.

FWIW, I had that pace as above average. Not supersonic but solid. Definitely have to make daily notes w/their turf races. But anytime we can get an edge, why not take it?
I haven't been able to come close to the submitted hand timed 1:49.80. In 6 attempts,all my efforts are clustered around 1:51.20.

[cj]

I haven't been able to come close to the submitted hand timed 1:49.80. In 6 attempts,all my efforts are clustered around 1:51.20.

I always break these races out anyway, but it is pretty sad that they can't even hand time a race.

[Jessica Pacheco]

Does anybody here have a list of the races run in the past 3 weeks that you feel have had incorrect times?The issue has not been forgotten, ignored, or swept under the rug in any way.

[Jessica Pacheco]

FWIW I contacted AP and they are having all kinds of problems with the 1/2 mile timer and have the company that makes the timers coming to try to fix it. They are working on it, albeit not as quickly as we'd like to see them fix it.

Just saw this, glad you got some info.

Once again, it is being worked on, not ignored.

[Valuist]

I haven't been able to come close to the submitted hand timed 1:49.80. In 6 attempts,all my efforts are clustered around 1:51.20.

Not surprised. Its pretty clear that none of the grass times, final or fractional, at AP can be taken seriously. But like I said earlier, this could be an edge for those who do watch replays.

[bigmack]

Just saw this, glad you got some info.

Once again, it is being worked on, not ignored.
While anyone with a brain functioning outside that of Sammy the Sage can figure this issue is not your department, it's mighty kind of you to address it here. With all due respect to those 'working' on the issue, they're not working hard enough.

I don't need to tell you what wide-ranging detriment erroneous times can do to a player.

I grew up 2 miles from AP and love the joint. At this juncture in time, the level of import on hot dogs being hot, or valet parking staff not smelling is insignificant to accurate times being posted.

It's unfathomable AP hasn't taken this as a SERIOUS BREACH of professionalism and done something, ANYTHING to right this wrong that blackens the eye of everyone at AP and the meet in general.

Sorry, but no excuses for this egregious blunder.

[Striker]

I haven't been able to come close to the submitted hand timed 1:49.80. In 6 attempts,all my efforts are clustered around 1:51.20.
I've got it closer to 1:52

[Steve 'StatMan']

I imagine the person at the track that hand timed the race only does it once, when the race happens. There is never any guarantee that that one hand tme is accurate in that likely one shot. Plus, ideally the timer works correctly and the hand time isn't needed. Nothing malcious, things just happen. So heaving all of you mention your times are around 1:51, then it really is around 1:51. It would be wise for all handicappers not to totally trust ANY hand times, fro ANY TRACK, and be suspicious of the figures generated from those races, althugh one hopes when it is obvious a race has a hand-timed, one hopes the figure maker makes a separate, projected fig - but the big national figures makers for the major public PPS don't tells us when they do that, unfortuantely. Same true for odd races that don't fit, esp. dirt routes, turf races with false/slow paces, etc. Some figures are believable, others may leave us hanging for convience sake of day-to-day printing or contractual obligations, etc.

[Tom]

Over the course of the past yr you've ruled out betting on NYRA, CD and now AP. You're gonna run out of tracks soon, or just be left with FL.


Don't forget GP.
So far, I have not missed anything.
Not playing tracks you don't trust or support is no problem for me.
Lots and lots of tracks out there. theses days, the difference between a major and minor track is not very much.

[Tom]

Timing races......wake up! This is 2012.
We have something many tracks may not have heard about.
It's called technology.

One day of bad timing is unacceptable.
Tracks need back up systems in place.
This is o just about timing races, though - it makes me wonder where else AP is slacking off. Their credibility is what is at question. I see none there at this point.

If this were NYRA......it boggles the mind what would be posted here.

[Striker]

Another week and still experiencing problems. Right off the bat today in Race 1 with the 1st 1/4 fraction, which came up 19.98 during live racing and receives an N/A in the charts.

[cj]

Another week and still experiencing problems. Right off the bat today in Race 1 with the 1st 1/4 fraction, which came up 19.98 during live racing and receives an N/A in the charts.

Don't sweat, this is very important to them and I'm sure they are working diligently to get it fixed. What is a few months of bad and missing times between friends?

[Jeff P]

HANA Track Advisory Warnings:
http://blog.horseplayersassociation.org/2012/07/hana-track-advisory-warnings.html

HANA Track Advisory Warnings
July is the time of year for great summer racing. Both Del Mar and Saratoga open this month, and meets at Arlington Park, Calder, and Woodbine are all currently underway.

However, we at HANA have a duty to our horseplayer members and are issuing advisory warnings about the following thoroughbred race tracks: Arlington Park, Del Mar, and the California Fair Circuit.

Pay attention. The information below has the ability to impact your bankroll.

Arlington Park
Players are hereby advised that published times for (far too many) races run at Arlington Park during the 2012 meet are missing, incomplete, or just completely inaccurate. This includes times for fractional (internal) points of call as well as final times for races run on both the turf course and Arlington’s Polytrack surface. Arlington Park management is aware of the problem, has been working on it (since opening day) – but as of this writing, the problem continues and has not been corrected. This (potentially) impacts any and all running lines in the past performance records of horses that have raced at Arlington Park to date during the 2012 meet.

In turn, this potentially (and negatively) impacts various proprietary ratings such as Beyers as well as the speed and pace figs published by all of the licensed horse racing data vendors...


No more waiting patiently for them to get it right. Story about this now up on the HANA Blog.

Horseplayers everywhere deserve to know.


-jp

.

[Itamaraca]

What is a more than a few years of bad and missing times between friends?

FTFY. This is way more accurate.

[bigmack]

Two in a day. With any luck they could push for three and garner a much celebrated hat trick. :jump:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/wwwequibasecom-static-chart-pdf-AP071312USA1pdf.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1-3.png

[cj]

FTFY. This is way more accurate.

True, though I think (but could be wrong) it was mostly turf races in the past.

[illinoisbred]

True, though I think (but could be wrong) it was mostly turf races in the past.
True enough in the early part of the meet. In the last 4 weeks its been mostly the poly races with ridiculous 1/4s or 1/2s posted only to be quickly taken down and shown as not available.

[SharpCat]

Two in a day. With any luck they could push for three and garner a much celebrated hat trick. :jump:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/wwwequibasecom-static-chart-pdf-AP071312USA1pdf.png

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/1-3.png


I remember watching the 1st race from home today. They posted the 1/4 in 19.98 seconds. I remember John Dooley getting ready to announce the 1/4 split but when he saw the posted split he had to improvise.

[bigmack]

We have GOT to get this Trotter guy to start another contest.

"Guess the Splits." sponsored by Timex.

Have T-shirts printed - Arlington. Laughingstock of the game.

Have no fear though, they're "working" on it.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/wwwequibasecom-static-chart-pdf-AP071512USA5pdf.png

[sammy the sage]

Bit of a redboard...but the payoffs yesterday...7/14...Arlington couldn't post them after the LAST race for 15+ minutes... :faint:

Of course the only way to hit the last two LOCAL races was ALL/ALL in the sequence...expensive...but worth it for once ;)

Wonder how they'll handle the million day...as everything seems to be breaking down and antiquated...and that'll be next and LAST day I'll play for STATED reasons previously...

I do LIKE the gal giving picks however...Jessica....she's got a BRIGHT future if she gets away from there...

[illinoisbred]

For those interested there appeared to be an obvious timer malfunction in today's 7th race. The displayed times of 46.31,1:11.78,and final time of 1:36.63 are in error and seemed built in from the start. After 4 hand timings,I got 1:39.40, 1:39.62,1:39.60,and 1:39.57. Safe to assume a 1:39 3/5 time and adjustment of the fractions accordingly.

[Itamaraca]

:lol::lol:

Is there only ONE track running? I mean, I feel for addicts in general but the numbers addicts are getting their butts kicked by the AP people. 4 times? :lol:

Why would they ever fix the problem when they you, and others, doing all the work for them?

numbers anonymous

[illinoisbred]

:lol::lol:

Is there only ONE track running? I mean, I feel for addicts in general but the numbers addicts are getting their butts kicked by the AP people. 4 times? :lol:

Why would they ever fix the problem when they you, and others, doing all the work for them?

numbers anonymous
Hey,happy to provide you with many hearty laughs this evening. I really don't think anyone is getting their butt kicked.

[Maximillion]

Hey,happy to provide you with many hearty laughs this evening. I really don't think anyone is getting their butt kicked.

Im bad at turf races in general but always trying to learn.....I could be wrong, but im confused why someone would be LMAO at someone generously posting what may be extremely useful info on a horse racing forum.anyway thanks IB

[PaceAdvantage]

I could be wrong, but im confused why someone would be LMAO at someone generously posting what may be extremely useful info on a horse racing forum.anyway thanks IBDon't be confused. He's a classic attention seeker.

[sammy the sage]

Question for those at Arlington...are the turf races going longer....final times w/in a sec. of being accurate?

There a few horses that have shipped elsewhere...look interesting...

[Striker]

There a few horses that have shipped elsewhere...look interesting...
Can you please elaborate on this point for me? What horses are you talking about?

[illinoisbred]

Clearly,not too many here paying much attention to the AP product . Yesterday was a bad day...very bad. The timer malfunctioned in every turf race 1 mile or longer. ALL times submitted were handtimed. The current glaring errors are on the 8th race...chart shows 1:38.10...was actually handtimed in 1:39.10 at AP.The 9th race chart shows a time of 1:37.82...in 3 handtimings I got times ranging between 1:39.13-1:39.19. And in the 11th, I got times ranging from 1:43.31-1:43.44...AP submitted a time approx.1:43.00. Just thought i'd note all this for what it's worth.

[cj]

Clearly,not too many here paying much attention to the AP product . Yesterday was a bad day...very bad. The timer malfunctioned in every turf race 1 mile or longer. ALL times submitted were handtimed. The current glaring errors are on the 8th race...chart shows 1:38.10...was actually handtimed in 1:39.10 at AP.The 9th race chart shows a time of 1:37.82...in 3 handtimings I got times ranging between 1:39.13-1:39.19. And in the 11th, I got times ranging from 1:43.31-1:43.44...AP submitted a time approx.1:43.00. Just thought i'd note all this for what it's worth.

I pay attention, I'm just tired of talking about it!

[illinoisbred]

I pay attention, I'm just tired of talking about it!
Agree,it's been a long summer.

[Jeff P]

Q. Has Arlington Park fixed their timer/corrected their timing problems?

A. No.

Failure to correct a known timing problem is bush league.

But the problems run deeper than that. (The lack of action on the part of Arlington Park track management speaks volumes.)

Back in early July, horseplayers compiled a list of more than 30 races with bad and/or missing times and presented that list to Arlington Park track management.

To the best of my knowledge, Arlington Park took that list and did absolutely nothing with it.


-jp

.

[cj]

Q. Has Arlington Park fixed their timer/corrected their timing problems?

A. No.

Failure to correct a known timing problem is bush league.

But the problems run deeper than that. (The lack of action on the part of Arlington Park track management speaks volumes.)

Back in early July, horseplayers compiled a list of more than 30 races with bad and/or missing times and presented that list to Arlington Park track management.

To the best of my knowledge, Arlington Park took that list and did absolutely nothing with it.


-jp

.

Is anyone surprised? Timers around the country are riddled with problems. Arlington is more pronounced because the fractions/times were so ridiculous, but this is happening every day from the big tracks to the small.

[Jeff P]

Actually I was a little surprised - and not in a good way.

We had involved upper management at Equibase in getting the list of races with bad times to Arlington track management.

I was kind of hoping that Arlington would step up and respond by giving those races a second look, hand time them from video (not sure what else they could do?) - and get the info back to Equibase so that corrected charts could be cut.

In my opinion, players betting the Arlington product deserve at least that much.

But to do nothing with that list? (To give players and Equibase the cold shoulder?)

That's weak.


-jp

.

[cj]

Actually I was a little surprised - and not in a good way.



I'm just jaded, but to be fair, I have reason to be jaded. Equibase has definitely improved, but they can only do so much.

[Tom]

Bottom line, seeing how it is the year 2012...isn't the entire horse racing industry pretty much bush league at heart?

Is there ANY track out there that really is more professional than high school football or college track and filed?

[Jeff P]

Bottom line, seeing how it is the year 2012...isn't the entire horse racing industry pretty much bush league at heart?

Is there ANY track out there that really is more professional than high school football or college track and filed?

In mid July, a horseplayer named Ron helped out in compiling a list of races at Arlington that had bad times. Here is a direct quote from one of his emails to me:

Just for a point of comparison, I ran Betfair Hollywood Park, Belmont, Thistledown and Arapahoe. I ran the exact same query as I did for AP, looking for missing times and obviously bad times.

BHP has had 403 races this meet - 0 races were missing a fractional time and all looked to be in normal ranges. 100% score.

Bel has had 487 races this meet - 0 races were missing a fractional time and all looked to be in normal ranges. 100% score.

Tdn has had 319 races this meet - 1 race was missing fractions and all looked to be in normal ranges. 99.6% score

Arp has had 120 races this meet - 1 race was missing fractions and all looked to be in normal ranges. 99.2% score


AP has had 388 races this meet - 27 were missing at least 1 fraction and 7 were missing all fractions, presumably deleted after somebody cleaned up the bad times. 93.0% score

Arlington has a long way to go to meet Arapahoe's timing standards, at least in terms of completeness.

You can forward or quote this to whomever you want.

Ron



-jp

.

[Striker]

Anyone know why Race 7 was an ALL race in multi race wagers today?

[speed]

Obviously Arlington Park management is telling horseplayers **** you. Pretty plain and simple. If you rely on fractional times i certainly would understand not wagering on AP. This timing issue gives a new meaning to absolute incompetence.

[cj]

Anyone know why Race 7 was an ALL race in multi race wagers today?

I can't find anything. Nothing on the AP web page, or the Twitter or Facebook pages. There was no surface change, and only scratches of the AEs. All the payoffs for that race were paid in the normal fashion.

[Striker]

I can't find anything. Nothing on the AP web page, or the Twitter or Facebook pages. There was no surface change, and only scratches of the AEs. All the payoffs for that race were paid in the normal fashion.
Me either, that's why I asked, and even the pk3 that started in that race was an ALL also in the opening leg. I don't get it.

[tbwinner]

Me either, that's why I asked, and even the pk3 that started in that race was an ALL also in the opening leg. I don't get it.


This has happened before on an AP chart one or two times this meet and was fixed within a day or so (probably because they saw it here !). Not sure if its an AP or Equibase thing but nonetheless this, along with the timer issues,are ridiculous and really inexcusable.

I have not made more than a dozen wagers at AP since Million Day and will probably not race there next year as their management does not give a flying shit about the horseplayers or horsemen. Never have I seen a track with such INCOMPETENCE !!!

[illinoisbred]

Add the 7th and 9th races from yesterday to the list of the misstimed. After many attempts on each, I'm consistently 3/5 slower than the recorded times of both races.
Chris...does your trainer share your sentiments regarding AP?

[illinoisbred]

This turf timing issue wasn't just confined here to AP. This past spring,Hawthorne had many timer snafus in turf sprints along with some problematic 1+1/16s when the rail was out at 25' in their final week(s)

[eurocapper]

Maybe there is improvement on the way
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/new-racing-technology-could-offer-vast-amounts-of-data-to-handicappers/2012/02/08/gIQATex0zQ_story.html

I recall reading in Beyer on Speed his major reason for rejecting pace handicapping was the imprecision of the data (also combining pace and speed into some ultimate figure seemed like voodoo to him mathematically, but he did try it out).

[PhantomOnTour]

Maybe there is improvement on the way
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/new-racing-technology-could-offer-vast-amounts-of-data-to-handicappers/2012/02/08/gIQATex0zQ_story.html

I recall reading in Beyer on Speed his major reason for rejecting pace handicapping was the imprecision of the data (also combining pace and speed into some ultimate figure seemed like voodoo to him mathematically, but he did try it out).
Trakus ?
:lol:

[cj]

Trakus has potential, but it has to be the slowest moving technological advancement in history. Few tracks pay for it, and none use it to full effect. It has also had some accuracy issues as well.

[Itamaraca]

In at least 2 races over the past couple of weeks @ WO TRAKUS has gotten the number wrong during the running of a race. In one case, they had the leader's number reversed with that of the last place runner (it was the 8 and 9, I believe). Haven't seen it since but not exactly as confident in the accuracy of their data as I once was.

[cj]

Check out Kentucky Downs for some ridiculous times.

[PhantomOnTour]

BUMP:
1st quarter fraction in the first race of the meet (on turf)...20.72 :lol:

Oh Gulfstream

[Grits]

Been wondering if the timer problem would be solved. Guess we'll see today. Amazing how they change talking heads and racetrack executives, constantly, but still don't get it--that fractions and final times should be CORRECT.

I may not even watch. :lol:

[cj]

Been wondering if the timer problem would be solved. Guess we'll see today. Amazing how they change talking heads and racetrack executives, constantly, but still don't get it--that fractions and final times should be CORRECT.

I may not even watch. :lol:

We already saw...it is still broken.

For some reason the chart still isn't up, and it isn't on Trakus either even though Race 2 is already posted.

[therussmeister]

It appears that, with the exception of the first race, Equibase is using TRAKUS's times. But unfortunately not for Tampa.

[cj]

It appears that, with the exception of the first race, Equibase is using TRAKUS's times. But unfortunately not for Tampa.

Thank goodness!

[Tom]

I was actually planning on playing both of these tracks this year, but if they don't respect the players, why should I support them.

I suggest we flood them with emails, and call Byk's show next he has one of the local jokers on - they line up for the free publicity, call in ask them why they continue to FAIL to know how to time a race. Enough of this fluff interviewing. This is a gambling game, dammit - no room for groupies here.

[cj]

Gulfstream has a new trick now. They've added changing run ups during the card for races at the same distance on dirt. Also, they are still listing the run up for 1m races on dirt as 5 feet, and that is clearly a lie. The timing of mile race has changed dramatically this year from years past.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Gulfstream has a new trick now. They've added changing run ups during the card for races at the same distance on dirt. Also, they are still listing the run up for 1m races on dirt as 5 feet, and that is clearly a lie. The timing of mile race has changed dramatically this year from years past.

Any idea why?

[cj]

Any idea why?

Whatever the reason, it can't possibly be a good one.

[andicap]

Craig,
How do u account in your figures for the faulty times?

[cj]

Craig,
How do u account in your figures for the faulty times?

I try to figure out what the real time was and do the best I can.

[Valuist]

1:08 flat for the 6f fraction and the closers still can't get there? Their fractional times are meaningless.

[cj]

1:08 flat for the 6f fraction and the closers still can't get there? Their fractional times are meaningless.

At Gulfstream? They use Trakus now, so the teletimer issues are over.

Isn't a bias the most likely explanation?

[Valuist]

At Gulfstream? They use Trakus now, so the teletimer issues are over.

Isn't a bias the most likely explanation?

4 months of use has obviously tore it up. Trakus or not, I'm skeptical of the times they are showing.

[Valuist]

I just saw the other thread about the Pan American. I'm inclined to agree with Jeremy Jet. Have to wonder if the time was accomplished at an "about" distance.

[Tom]

Trakus tells you the exact distance covered.

[cj]

4 months of use has obviously tore it up. Trakus or not, I'm skeptical of the times they are showing.

The fractions and final times have actually been good this year, in my opinion. It was a HUGE problem for past meets. I'd get races like this:

1/4: 80
1/2: 50
3/4: 82
Fin: 90

Obviously the 50 is BS, and this is exactly how I catch nearly all transcription errors in Equibase data. They use a very simplistic formula to catch "bad" times. Mine isn't that complicated, but 98 times out of 100 I'll go watch the race and the "50" was just a wrong time put in by the chart guy.

At Gulfstream, the times would be "right" per the timer, but obviously something was wrong. This year, I don't remember seeing any of those crazy times.

[CincyHorseplayer]

Thank god we have you making figures for us CJ.

[SharpCat]

Crazy times posted on the track feed in Gulfstreams 10th race. 1/4 mile 04.33, 1/2 mile 26.40 and 5/8 in 38.09.

[iceknight]

ok, I am confused by this Gulfstream time.. (track record note)

Here is Artax winning in 1:07.89
http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbPDFChartPlus.cfm?BORP=P&STYLE=EQB&DAY=D&tid=GP&dt=11/06/1999&ctry=USA&race=6

but the equibase chart of this race that happened in 1999 lists a track record of 6f (a slower time by Big Drama - 1:08.12.. in 2011) as the track record.. What am I missing?


and...I didn't know that Wise Dan was beaten in the 6f BC sprint in 2010 by Big Drama and 4 others!!! What??? (chart (http://www.equibase.com/premium/eqbPDFChartPlus.cfm?BORP=P&STYLE=EQB&DAY=D&tid=CD&dt=11/06/2010&ctry=USA&race=5) )

[cj]

I think all track records were reset when the track was reconfigured several years ago.

[wiffleball whizz]

All kinds of missing fractions and bogus times the past few weeks.

I was thinking about this and I would think as a professional handicapper u gotta love this.....think About the advantage you would have by having accurate time or close to it and the public that didn't do there homework left with wrong information,....Unless maybe its harder then I think to keep your own time watching on tv.....I guess thats not easy.....

Trying to come up with an analogy here.....maybe it would be like 2 people betting baseball and 1 has acess to the pitchers and the other one doesn't...

Now I'm not a pro handicapper by any means but if I was betting Yonkers professionally id love for wrong times to be posted if go back and time the race myself.....

But now that I thinks about it doing your own timed for the flats with different distances and different timer locations it would be nearly impossible I guess...but you would have a better clue then the clowns at otb hahaha

[cj]

I was thinking about this and I would think as a professional handicapper u gotta love this.....think About the advantage you would have by having accurate time or close to it and the public that didn't do there homework left with wrong information,....Unless maybe its harder then I think to keep your own time watching on tv.....I guess thats not easy.....

Trying to come up with an analogy here.....maybe it would be like 2 people betting baseball and 1 has acess to the pitchers and the other one doesn't...

Now I'm not a pro handicapper by any means but if I was betting Yonkers professionally id love for wrong times to be posted if go back and time the race myself.....

But now that I thinks about it doing your own timed for the flats with different distances and different timer locations it would be nearly impossible I guess...but you would have a better clue then the clowns at otb hahaha

Final time is easy if you know the track and practice. Fractions are much tougher due to camera angles and varying distances as you say.

[iceknight]

I think all track records were reset when the track was reconfigured several years ago. Thanks! After this post I had been reviewing this thread and lot of useful info! Appreciate it guys..

[ezpace]

WHO would benefit from fecking with the times and
publication or NO PUBLICATION OF THEM ?

I would think in most buisnesses if some employees
or outsiders were fecking with your buisness mgmt
would harshly DEAL WITH IT and VERY ABRUPTLY.

NOT HORSERACE TRACK MGMTS. pieces of garbage

[PaceAdvantage]

WHO would benefit from fecking with the times and
publication or NO PUBLICATION OF THEM ?

I would think in most buisnesses if some employees
or outsiders were fecking with your buisness mgmt
would harshly DEAL WITH IT and VERY ABRUPTLY.

NOT HORSERACE TRACK MGMTS. pieces of garbageWhy are you even here? What's your angle?

I mean, damn, if I hated and mistrusted something that much, why would I waste my time in a forum posting about it? I would just leave it in the rear view mirror and move on with life. But not you...

So there has to be some sort of angle...

[BIG49010]

Arlington must have returned the timer to Gulfstream yesterday, the charts are a mess.

[BIG49010]

The times for the Stakes races seem a little strange from Saturday. The mile and a half race is very strange, and the 3 yr old race either is very good or off by a mile.

Any thoughts?

[sammy the sage]

yes...they went very slow...acted as if turf WAS NOT firm although listed that way...

got the feeling many entered were NOT fully cranked either...esp...since MILLION day coming up next for many entered....

[sammy the sage]

as far as the actual timer/timing from there...I gave up a long time ago...there are several here who do...do the times manually or otherwise...perhaps they'll enlighten us both...

[cj]

The times for the Stakes races seem a little strange from Saturday. The mile and a half race is very strange, and the 3 yr old race either is very good or off by a mile.

Any thoughts?

I think they are very fishy as well.

[Valuist]

I think the only takeaways on the stakes can be taken from the American Derby and Modesty. The Amer Derby was run faster than the race for older fillies/mares. The pace was faster and we saw 7 fillies finish within 1 1/2 lengths of the winner.

As for the Stars and Stripes and Arlington Handicap, they don't card many races at 1 1/4 miles and 1 1/2 miles. At least on Million day they also run the Secretariat at the same distance (1 1/4m) for comparison. On paper, there was no early speed in either race so its not shocking they were crawling.

[thespaah]

Well, if anything, the timer is getting worse. I'm seeing more and more missing times, and a few reported times that are wrong.
This is a good example for Trakus to be installed at all major tracks.