RTN's Days Numbered ?

[edmond1]

I have heard rumors that Dish Network is not sure about the future of RTN - currently only 1000 subscribers. They anticipated much better interest and are very disappointed. Can anyone confirm this ?

[PhantomOnTour]

RTN did a lot of advertising all over Pimlico last weekend.
Even had a plane with a banner circling all afternoon on Preakness day.

[cj]

I saw the adds on Preakness day and my wife asked why I didn't have it. Of course they don't mention the price. I am betting races left and right. I guess it is just principle, but I simply refuse to pay that much to watch races I'm already paying quite a premium to bet on.

I can get about 500 channels, most in HD, for less. This is a very tough game to beat without adding another $1200 a year. It seems outrageous to me. I could get it if I wanted it, but I pass. I don't care how you want to spin it, that price is too much. I get NBA League Pass for $199 or whatever it was for the whole season, in HD, and it never goes out on big days. I'm pretty sure you could get all four of the major sports, and throw in MLS and Fox Soccer Channel Plus, for about the same price.

So, I watch what I can on TVG and HRTV and I watch others on the web where it costs nothing. This isn't 1998, the video is pretty good on the web most days. All the big races are on TV for the slow video days anyway.

[Not4Love]

In my experience it is worth every penny. No talking heads or commercials. It allows me to focus more and im much more productive with my wagering.

[cj]

In my experience it is worth every penny. No talking heads or commercials. It allows me to focus more and im much more productive with my wagering.

Agree, but I can do pretty much the same no the net.

[satrabyk]

I know that HPI internet feed is about 2-3 seconds slower that RTN feed. I think Twinspires Express feed is better - not sure. In any case I believe that Roberts Communications(affiliated with RTN) is deliberately keeping other feeds slower so that people subscribe to RTN. Tracks should use a webcasting service - internet feed would be several seconds faster than RTN - hence less chance of getting shut out. RTN might be OK for residential use but definitely very inadequate for commercial use - too slow/weather dependent etc....

[bks]

cj wrote:

I saw the adds on Preakness day and my wife asked why I didn't have it. Of course they don't mention the price. I am betting races left and right. I guess it is just principle, but I simply refuse to pay that much to watch races I'm already paying quite a premium to bet on.

Can you explain this, cj? Do you mean paying a premium to watch races? How do you pay a premium to bet races?

[Dave Schwartz]

FWIW

When we (our Skype group) do live play sessions, I always have my satellite RTN running. In the background (it is open mike for everyone) I can hear someone else's internet version.

This gives us a clear comparison between the internet & satellite.

Satellite is sometimes only 3-4 seconds ahead, but occasionally it is as much as 15-20 seconds. Internet is NEVER faster.

[JustRalph]

FWIW

When we (our Skype group) do live play sessions, I always have my satellite RTN running. In the background (it is open mike for everyone) I can hear someone else's internet version.

This gives us a clear comparison between the internet & satellite.

Satellite is sometimes only 3-4 seconds ahead, but occasionally it is as much as 15-20 seconds. Internet is NEVER faster.

How many in a group? Sounds like fun. I cant get more than a couple to participate. Skyping? or Google hangout?

[cj]

Can you explain this, cj? Do you mean paying a premium to watch races? How do you pay a premium to bet races?

I'm just saying that you already pay enough to bet races, about 20% of your bet. I think another $99 a month on top of that to watch races you bet on is a bit much. I'm not knocking those that do it at all. It is just something I can't do on principle. I get all the video I want on my computer. I hook up a computer to my television and the picture looks damn good to me, just as good at TVG or HRTV.

Maybe if Roberts would start providing HD it would be worth it to me, but either horse racing or myself will probably be long gone before that happens.

Let me ask a question. Isn't this typical of the racing industry? I think they should be giving away video and basic PPs. Anybody should be able to get them any time. It could encourage betting. Instead, racing clings to business models from the 1900s.

[Dave Schwartz]

How many in a group? Sounds like fun. I cant get more than a couple to participate. Skyping? or Google hangout?

We've got about 45 in our biggest group.

The guys chat almost every day but we only play "live" on goto meeting a couple of times a month.

Feel free to join us on Skype.

Dave

[duncan04]

I have heard rumors that Dish Network is not sure about the future of RTN - currently only 1000 subscribers. They anticipated much better interest and are very disappointed. Can anyone confirm this ?

Not surprised. Seemed like a good idea but the price is a bit much per month. Can get same feed from Twinspires and am content with HRTV and TVG. And save money for other things!

[Al Gobbi]

and so what happens to the tracks that use the service if it is pulled? I went to the track the other day and found that the TVG feed was about 3-5 seconds ahead of Roberts feeds and were much cleaner.

[duncan04]

and so what happens to the tracks that use the service if it is pulled? I went to the track the other day and found that the TVG feed was about 3-5 seconds ahead of Roberts feeds and were much cleaner.

I don't think tracks use the service. I'm sure they have a separate deal with Roberts.

[BreadandButter]

I'm just saying that you already pay enough to bet races, about 20% of your bet. I think another $99 a month on top of that to watch races you bet on is a bit much. I'm not knocking those that do it at all.

It's actually $50 a month with Dish. It was $99 a month prior to the change over to Dish when it was the 40 channels on RTN. So when it moved from RTN to Dish the number of feeds doubled to 80 and the price was cut in half to $50 and the signal quality improved along with the equipment allowing for fast forwarding, rewinding, pausing, recording etc..

[baconswitchfarm]

The signal you are watching now at your local track is the same as the rtn feed you get on dish network . It is about 4 seconds behind the feed you were watching at the tracks six months ago. You are now getting shut out if you wait right until the break.

[cj]

It's actually $50 a month with Dish. It was $99 a month prior to the change over to Dish when it was the 40 channels on RTN. So when it moved from RTN to Dish the number of feeds doubled to 80 and the price was cut in half to $50 and the signal quality improved along with the equipment allowing for fast forwarding, rewinding, pausing, recording etc..

Thanks, good to know.

[GaryG]

I will be sorry to seem them go if that is the case. The $50 is worth it considering that every race is shown live which is not the case with TVG and HRTV. The replays are extensive as well.

[Tom]

I pay about $30 a month for Dish, get two sem-watchable TV channels plus all the other content. $50 a month.....not bloody likely.

[satrabyk]

FWIW

When we (our Skype group) do live play sessions, I always have my satellite RTN running. In the background (it is open mike for everyone) I can hear someone else's internet version.

This gives us a clear comparison between the internet & satellite.

Satellite is sometimes only 3-4 seconds ahead, but occasionally it is as much as 15-20 seconds. Internet is NEVER faster.

Late last year HRTV was providing customers a free internet feed for a limited time period. They were using USTREAM (webcasting service). Their Santa Anita feed was at least 2 seconds faster than the RTN feed. They later changed their method of delivery and feeds were delayed several seconds. I immediately cancelled subscription. This was mentioned in a thread a while back. When questioned HRTV did not seem too concerned about the increased delay ???????? I know of another track using a webcasting service - 2-3 seconds faster than RTN. Average delay of a Roberts Communications internet feed is 2-3 seconds slower than RTN. This is what happens when you have a monopoly convincing people that a 5 second delay (RTN) is good enough so that they can fill their pockets. Technology exists to decrease the delay dramatically - TVG must be using alternative methods too access some feeds.

[bks]

I'm just saying that you already pay enough to bet races, about 20% of your bet. I think another $99 a month on top of that to watch races you bet on is a bit much. I'm not knocking those that do it at all. It is just something I can't do on principle. I get all the video I want on my computer. I hook up a computer to my television and the picture looks damn good to me, just as good at TVG or HRTV.

Maybe if Roberts would start providing HD it would be worth it to me, but either horse racing or myself will probably be long gone before that happens.

Let me ask a question. Isn't this typical of the racing industry? I think they should be giving away video and basic PPs. Anybody should be able to get them any time. It could encourage betting. Instead, racing clings to business models from the 1900s.

It's a problem, for sure. Yet since I found this site I've gotten a lot better about finding things like PPs and video for free [BRIS is great for that, with PPs to prob. 75% of the races I consider betting and video to the majority of the tracks]. Not to rub a sore spot, but NYRA is the worst about video. I get most of the video I want, but I can't get NYRA tracks. I would love to have Saratoga in the summertime and Belmont during the spring and fall.

Can someone explain their reasoning for denying video?

[Track Collector]

It's actually $50 a month with Dish. It was $99 a month prior to the change over to Dish when it was the 40 channels on RTN. So when it moved from RTN to Dish the number of feeds doubled to 80 and the price was cut in half to $50 and the signal quality improved along with the equipment allowing for fast forwarding, rewinding, pausing, recording etc..

And for those who can write it off as a business expense, (cj -- I would think you come under this category), the net cost is really about $27.50 x 12 months = $ 330 per year. For me it is a no-brainer as the signal clarity is great and every track has its' own channel. Except for the smallest of tracks, there are on RTN. :jump:

[ElKabong]

I'll switch over to Dish when my responsibility with Directv runs out, simply for RTN.

3 months ago i replaced my receiver, had to agree to a 12 month extension...had i known about RTN I'd have ended my Directv association real quick

I watch Delta on TWIN SPIRES, the video the past 2 weeks has been awful. In and out, almost never saw a race live. Having the old Philly Park Racing Network 10 + yrs ago, I loved that service & wish I had it (RTN) now

[Al Gobbi]

IF RTN does go out would the tracks return to their previous delivery methods?

[Dave Schwartz]

I doubt that RTN would disappear. It would likely just be the Dishnet deal that would go away.

I would assume that RTN would continue to look for a viable way to market/conduct their business model.

Think of it this way... if there are ONLY 1,000 subscribers paying $50+ per month, how many of those would become RTN direct subscribers at $50 per month (especially considering that many of us signed with Dishnet just for the RTN package)?

That revenue has to be far more than they are currently getting from the Dishnet deal.

That also has to be more than they had before with the old $100 per month program.

My guess would be that they would switch to a pure web-based solution, with some kind of subscription service.


Who knows?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[thespaah]

I doubt that RTN would disappear. It would likely just be the Dishnet deal that would go away.

I would assume that RTN would continue to look for a viable way to market/conduct their business model.

Think of it this way... if there are ONLY 1,000 subscribers paying $50+ per month, how many of those would become RTN direct subscribers at $50 per month (especially considering that many of us signed with Dishnet just for the RTN package)?

That revenue has to be far more than they are currently getting from the Dishnet deal.

That also has to be more than they had before with the old $100 per month program.

My guess would be that they would switch to a pure web-based solution, with some kind of subscription service.


Who knows?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz
There is a service called 'sky angel'. This is a religious programming service of about 30+ channels. At one time Dish Network offered this service through Dish equipment. As the number of subscribers dwindled( probably due to the $35 per month subscription fee) and Dish needing the satellite transponders for their growing lineup of HD services, ended their agreement with Sky Angel.
Sky Angel became a web based service and has been for quite a few years now.
Based on that reality, it is entirely within the realm of possibility that RTN which in the planning stages of an internet application for it's signals, may very well go all internet.
Stay tuned!