Greedy bastard?

[DJofSD]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-eduardo-saverin-20120512,0,5844322.story

Eduardo Saverin, the Facebook co-founder who renounced his U.S. citizenship in what many have seen as a move to avoid paying federal taxes, has managed to unify many Americans behind Uncle Sam's outstretched hand.

Before we get to the reaction, a quick catch-up: Saverin is Mark Zuckerberg's Facebook co-founder, and his role in the business venture was immortalized in the Oscar-winning film, “The Social Network.” He has a reported 4% stake in the company, a stake that could be worth nearly $4 billion after Facebook's highly anticipated initial public offering, expected next week.

Is he a greedy bastard or a smart investor?

[HUSKER55]

TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN. right now I don't think our government could collectivly navigate their way around the inside of a cheerio.


why give them more money to piss away.


just curious...does anybody here really think our budget will be balanced?

[DJofSD]

What budget? The U. S. Senate has not passed one for, what, three years?

[TJDave]

He doesn't deserve U.S. citizenship.

I hope the day comes when he needs our help...

Desperately. ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

He doesn't deserve U.S. citizenship.

I hope the day comes when he needs our help...

Desperately. ;)

I agree with this sentiment...and I support lower taxes.

[Robert Goren]

First he wants to be a citizen and becomes one and now he don't. Singapore can have his sorry ass. We won't miss him one bit. I hope they never let him back into the country.

[Tom]

Half the people who are citizens don't pay income taxes, so why worry about him?

[TJDave]

Half the people who are citizens don't pay income taxes, so why worry about him?

But you want these people paying taxes, right?

[boxcar]

He doesn't deserve U.S. citizenship.

I hope the day comes when he needs our help...

Desperately. ;)

Actually, I agree wholeheartedly with Husker. The exceedingly corrupt U.S. government doesn't deserve this guy's money. He earned his honestly. But the state...? Plus the state is intoxicated on spending. I applaud this guy for his move.

Boxcar

[Saratoga_Mike]

Actually, I agree wholeheartedly with Husker. The exceedingly corrupt U.S. government doesn't deserve this guy's money. He earned his honestly. But the state...? Plus the state is intoxicated on spending. I applaud this guy for his move.Boxcar

Might we see you go next Box?

[boxcar]

Might we see you go next Box?

Why do you ask? In most locations around the globe, the web knows no borders -- much to your chagrin, no doubt. :D

Boxcar

[Saratoga_Mike]

Why do you ask? In most locations around the globe, the web knows no borders -- much to your chagrin, no doubt. :D

Boxcar

I thought you lived in south Florida, at least that's what you had said previously. I'd just hate to lose a great American like yourself to a place like Singapore.

[Greyfox]

Eduardo Saverin, in spite of his wealth, is showing us how the Education system has failed him badly.
I feel sorry for him. For him to renounce his citizenship is a stupid decision.
It could come back to haunt him in time.

[Tom]

But you want these people paying taxes, right?

That will never happen as long we allow dems to roam the streets unchained.
so the alternative I want NO one to pay taxes. Fair is fair - no one should have to pay taxes or pay any bills - we should all REFUSE to pay for anything.
Everyone is debt free - the American Way! Just say no to Bills.

[Tom]

Eduardo Saverin, in spite of his wealth, is showing us how the Education system has failed him badly.
I feel sorry for him. For him to renounce his citizenship is a stupid decision.
It could come back to haunt him in time.

How, exactly?
What is the value in US citizenship when you get to work and support those who do not? Democrats have devalued our dollar and and our citizenship. Not paying the taxes is probably far more valuable in the long run.

[Greyfox]

How, exactly?
What is the value in US citizenship when you get to work and support those who do not? Democrats have devalued our dollar and and our citizenship. Not paying the taxes is probably far more valuable in the long run.

Talk is cheap.
Go find out for yourself.

[Tom]

You don't gt it.....countries, and nationalism - tools that keep the masses in line.
You will notice government, banks, businesses - all going global.
While WE get to be the only ones loyal to a nation.
Right where they want us.
This is why so many countries are trying to control the internet - good old USA included. That is the one tool - as the Arabs showed us - that can free us from boarders and bring us together as a species instead of a small, manageable citizenry. The don't want US going global.

[boxcar]

How, exactly?
What is the value in US citizenship when you get to work and support those who do not? Democrats have devalued our dollar and and our citizenship. Not paying the taxes is probably far more valuable in the long run.

Exactly right, Tom! It's called starving the beast. Many more wealthy people should leave this country and take their bucks with them.

Don't forget, y'all, this all started on states' level. People would leave one hostile anti-capitalism state and move to a wallet-friendlier one. But now the tempo has picked up. People are really getting fed up. Now they just pick up and move out of the country. I say bravo! Let the voracious beast gut itself and feed on its own entrails!

Boxcar

[boxcar]

You don't gt it.....countries, and nationalism - tools that keep the masses in line.
You will notice government, banks, businesses - all going global.
While WE get to be the only ones loyal to a nation.
Right where they want us.
This is why so many countries are trying to control the internet - good old USA included. That is the one tool - as the Arabs showed us - that can free us from boarders and bring us together as a species instead of a small, manageable citizenry. The don't want US going global.

Be very careful what your wish for. Globalism isn't the answer either. A strong, militarily-backed central world government ruled by the elite few is the last thing this world needs, although this is where the world is heading.

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

You don't gt it.....countries, and nationalism - tools that keep the masses in line.
You will notice government, banks, businesses - all going global.
While WE get to be the only ones loyal to a nation.
Right where they want us.
This is why so many countries are trying to control the internet - good old USA included. That is the one tool - as the Arabs showed us - that can free us from boarders and bring us together as a species instead of a small, manageable citizenry. The don't want US going global.

Careful. You are lining up with Obama's latent message that "Nationalism Breeds Contempt."

[JustRalph]

http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-eduardo-saverins-not-the-only-one-trying-to-save-money-by-renouncing-his-citizenship-2012-5

Interesting stuff

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/4fb6a3ebeab8ea6365000019/taxleaving.png

[Tom]

There were good reasons we left England at one time.
History repeats itself.

People are not going to accept bearing the burden of half the nation who are anchors.

[NJ Stinks]

There were good reasons we left England at one time.
History repeats itself.

People are not going to accept bearing the burden of half the nation who are anchors.

Oh, really? How many taxpayers do you think there were 60 or 70 years ago in the U.S.? (Here's a hint: most women didn't work and neither did kids.)

[AndyC]

Eduardo Saverin is only dodging taxes on the increase in value of his Facebook holdings from September of last year. All value that accrued up until the point he renounced his citizenship last September is subject to US tax. Seeing how he wasn't born in the US, hasn't lived or worked in the US for 3 years it seems a little odd that people would get so upset over such a minor event. Continuing to pay tax on your world-wide income while neither living here nor working here doesn't make a lot of sense.

The liberals and their allies in the media are trying to portray this as some sort of big tax dodge by the wealthy so that they can continue their agenda of demonizing the successful and wealthy.

[Tom]

You think we left England 60-70 years ago?

[mostpost]

Eduardo Saverin is only dodging taxes on the increase in value of his Facebook holdings from September of last year. All value that accrued up until the point he renounced his citizenship last September is subject to US tax. Seeing how he wasn't born in the US, hasn't lived or worked in the US for 3 years it seems a little odd that people would get so upset over such a minor event. Continuing to pay tax on your world-wide income while neither living here nor working here doesn't make a lot of sense.

The liberals and their allies in the media are trying to portray this as some sort of big tax dodge by the wealthy so that they can continue their agenda of demonizing the successful and wealthy.

A few days ago I heard someone on the radio say that while most people consider taxes as a necessity to pay for the benefits of living in a society, conservatives consider taxes as a punishment for success. The portion of your post which I placed in bold certainly leads credence to that theory.

So now Mr Sauverin is no longer a United States citizen. But the money he is making is being made on the American stock exchange and he is making that money because Americans are using his service. So let him be a citizen of whatever freakin' country he wants as long as he pays American taxes on American money.

[Greyfox]

Continuing to pay tax on your world-wide income while neither living here nor working here doesn't make a lot of sense.



:ThmbUp: Agreed. He's not the only one who is upset about that.
Depending where you are outside of the U.S., you may be subjected to the taxes of the Country that you are in and then again to U.S. taxes.
This is a problem in that the U.S. has tried to ask the banks of other countries to send them private information on that U.S. citizen for taxation purposes. Some Countries comply, some don't.
The bottom line is, if I'm living outside of the U.S., paying taxes to the country that I've earned money in, why do I have to pay the U.S. Government for money that I earned elswhere??
The ultimate answer is complicated and would involve a lawyer's expertise which I don't have.
The bottom line is that to renounce one's Citizenship simply for money takes long and deep thinking.
Personally, I would have a very hard time relinquishing my Citizenship.

[mostpost]

The liberals and their allies in the media are trying to portray this as some sort of big tax dodge by the wealthy so that they can continue their agenda of demonizing the successful and wealthy.

As opposed to you conservatives who are constantly demonizing the poor and less fortunate. Except in this case the poor and less fortunate do not have power to fight back. By definition, this is bullying.

[AndyC]

The bottom line is that to renounce one's Citizenship simply for money takes long and deep thinking. Personally, I would have a very hard time relinquishing my Citizenship.

Yes, it would be difficult for someone who has been born and raised here but he wasn't born here and has lived and worked elsewhere.

[AndyC]

[/B]

A few days ago I heard someone on the radio say that while most people consider taxes as a necessity to pay for the benefits of living in a society, conservatives consider taxes as a punishment for success. The portion of your post which I placed in bold certainly leads credence to that theory.

So now Mr Sauverin is no longer a United States citizen. But the money he is making is being made on the American stock exchange and he is making that money because Americans are using his service. So let him be a citizen of whatever freakin' country he wants as long as he pays American taxes on American money.

Well the person you heard on the radio certainly does reflect the feelings of most conservatives.

Mr Sauverin is paying taxes on the money he earned via the American Stock exchange up until the time he renounced his citizenship. Just as a US citizen can use foreign stock exchanges for trading stocks without paying foreign taxes Mr Sauverin will have the same ability to use American exchanges. Facebook is international and it has nothing to do with "American money".

[mostpost]

There were good reasons we left England at one time.
History repeats itself.

People are not going to accept bearing the burden of half the nation who are anchors.

We didn't leave England because of taxes. We left because of representation. We had none. We revolted because we had no say in determining what taxes we should pay to England and how those taxes should be apportioned. None of the founding fathers advocated that no taxes should be collected. Both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution provided for the collection of taxes.
Article one; Section eight:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The problem was not taxes, it was that we were being asked to pay taxes that others (living in England) were not being asked to pay. And we were not being allowed a voice in deciding what those taxes should be.

[AndyC]

As opposed to you conservatives who are constantly demonizing the poor and less fortunate. Except in this case the poor and less fortunate do not have power to fight back. By definition, this is bullying.

Just exactly how are the poor and less fortunate being demonized? What is the bullying and why does anybody need to fight back?

It's not surprising that a liberal would try to paint the picture that success only happens when the poor and less fortunate are used as a stepping stool.

[rastajenk]

That's the whole Elizabeth Warren/Occupy philosophy.

[Robert Fischer]

You guys see what they are doing?

Facebook down 10% today at this time.

CNN just ran a special segment on social media alternatives to Facebook. Leading off with a young trendy social media expert declaring [paraphrase]"I have had enough of facebook, no more...".
Fox is probably talking about it. News and TV media will follow.


It's often worth paying a premium.

[Robert Goren]

Facebook is down today for a lot of reasons. Many of them have to do with the massive screw up by the NASDEQ on Friday. It will take the better part of this week for market to reach a real market price for Facebook. for the record I do not Facebook nor would I ever in the next couple of years if I had the money to. There is a lot of risk involved in owning it. I am not sure exactly how they going to make money in today's environment.

[PaceAdvantage]

Facebook is down today for a lot of reasons. Many of them have to do with the massive screw up by the NASDEQ on Friday. It will take the better part of this week for market to reach a real market price for Facebook. for the record I do not Facebook nor would I ever in the next couple of years if I had the money to. There is a lot of risk involved in owning it. I am not sure exactly how they going to make money in today's environment.What did the opening NASDAQ snafu have to do with it? All day long they were propping up the bid at 38 on opening day...today, that support was nowhere to be found...has nothing to do with the NASDAQ problem...

[NJ Stinks]

Just exactly how are the poor and less fortunate being demonized? What is the bullying and why does anybody need to fight back?



First Bush cuts taxes including capital gains and follows that up by declaring war on Iraq.

Then Repubs/conservatives wail that we've got to cut back on government services because we can no longer afford to fund those government services.

Is that exact enough for you, Andy? :rolleyes:

[elysiantraveller]

We didn't leave England because of taxes. We left because of representation. We had none. We revolted because we had no say in determining what taxes we should pay to England and how those taxes should be apportioned. None of the founding fathers advocated that no taxes should be collected. Both the Articles of Confederation and the Constitution provided for the collection of taxes.

We left because a lot of Virginians didn't want to pay their creditors...

[elysiantraveller]

What did the opening NASDAQ snafu have to do with it? All day long they were propping up the bid at 38 on opening day...today, that support was nowhere to be found...has nothing to do with the NASDAQ problem...

His ability to be wrong in the O/T is simply amazing....

[Tom]

mostie, they demanded NO TAXES without representation, and ever hear of the Boston Tea Party - the tea tax was a cause of the war.

[newtothegame]

What did the opening NASDAQ snafu have to do with it? All day long they were propping up the bid at 38 on opening day...today, that support was nowhere to be found...has nothing to do with the NASDAQ problem...
Maybe it has something to do with a company, facebook, trading at over a 100x earnings??? Now people are having buyers remorse??
You could pay me to touch that stock at those evaluations!!! JMHO

[toetoe]

A few days ago I heard someone on the radio say that while most people consider taxes as a necessity to pay for the benefits of living in a society, conservatives consider taxes as a punishment for success.





I thought taxes were to pay for wars ... :confused:

Of course, you've steadfastly refused to tell me what the tax rates should be. How about taxes for city/county/state only ? The one-worlders would hate it, but wouldn't it make more sense to "pay for the benefits " of living in one's very neighborhood ?

[AndyC]

First Bush cuts taxes including capital gains and follows that up by declaring war on Iraq.

Then Repubs/conservatives wail that we've got to cut back on government services because we can no longer afford to fund those government services.

Is that exact enough for you, Andy? :rolleyes:

If your first statement had any relevance to your second statement I could answer your question.

[RaceBookJoe]

Maybe it has something to do with a company, facebook, trading at over a 100x earnings??? Now people are having buyers remorse??
You could pay me to touch that stock at those evaluations!!! JMHO

FB is a stock you trade for now, not invest in as a hold.

[newtothegame]

FB is a stock you trade for now, not invest in as a hold.
You're definitely right joe.....and at those valuations, I would imagine more downside to come!

[RaceBookJoe]

You're definitely right joe.....and at those valuations, I would imagine more downside to come!

Been an interesting ipo to say the least. Employee of MS is being investigated that he may have leaked to other institutions of MS dumping stock or lowering outlook. As far as valuations..since i dont hold, i never look at them, they dont mean anything to my trading. FB can go to $5 or $500, it really doesnt matter to me.

[Bettowin]

You think it's going down now. Wait until the 90 day locked up shares hit the market and then when the 180 day shares unlock. I read somewhere there will be 55% more stock that can hit the market.

[NJ Stinks]

If your first statement had any relevance to your second statement I could answer your question.

Do you believe in fairy tales too, Andy?

Anyway, there is a news item over here that says it all about Tories/Republicans/Conservatives.

Apparently, British airline passengers are complaining long and loud about how long it takes British citizens to get through their own immigration windows at Heathrow. Critics say not enough immigration officers are being assigned to work at the British passport control windows due to budget cuts made by the Tory government. Tories, of course, are blaming the long lines on bad weather - or anything else they think of besides the obvious.

Anybody walking without blinkers on understands queues are longer at the supermarket if there are less cashier windows open. Perhaps Tories/Republicans/Conservatives just need a change in equipment! :lol:

[newtothegame]

Do you believe in fairy tales too, Andy?

Anyway, there is a news item over here that says it all about Tories/Republicans/Conservatives.

Apparently, British airline passengers are complaining long and loud about how long it takes British citizens to get through their own immigration windows at Heathrow. Critics say not enough immigration officers are being assigned to work at the British passport control windows due to budget cuts made by the Tory government. Tories, of course, are blaming the long lines on bad weather - or anything else they think of besides the obvious.

Anybody walking without blinkers on understands queues are longer at the supermarket if there are less cashier windows open. Perhaps Tories/Republicans/Conservatives just need a change in equipment! :lol:
IF (notice the big IF), if this is the case, which I haven't researched, where would you like for them to get the money to pay for these extra immigration officers? I am almost sure that the government isn't running a surplus. If they were, are they hoarding the monies?
I mean the money has to come from somewhere right? See, here in lies the problem between the two parties....one thinks you can just spend (even if you do NOT have the money), the other tries to be fiscally responsible......(even if it causes some delays). Then again, Why don't you just recommend they do away with all the immigration officers? hell, I am sure that would help :bang:

[NJ Stinks]

IF (notice the big IF), if this is the case, which I haven't researched, where would you like for them to get the money to pay for these extra immigration officers? I am almost sure that the government isn't running a surplus. If they were, are they hoarding the monies?
I mean the money has to come from somewhere right? See, here in lies the problem between the two parties....one thinks you can just spend (even if you do NOT have the money), the other tries to be fiscally responsible......(even if it causes some delays). Then again, Why don't you just recommend they do away with all the immigration officers? hell, I am sure that would help :bang:

Getting back to my main point with AndyC, Newt, one thing is for sure. If you cut taxes/budgets, services will suffer. And that includes immigration officers working at Heathrow Airport.

As for where the money comes from, take a look at all the taxes you are paying when you buy an airline ticket. One of those fees is for airport security.

[newtothegame]

Getting back to my main point with AndyC, Newt, one thing is for sure. If you cut taxes/budgets, services will suffer. And that includes immigration officers working at Heathrow Airport.

As for where the money comes from, take a look at all the taxes you are paying when you buy an airline ticket. One of those fees is for airport security.
Here's another thing for sure...if you continue to raise taxes, people will leave. You need not look further than California to see this trend. Cali is losing business by the bundles! Or, look at all the people who INCREASINGLY are renouncing their citizenship.....I can assure you this is not because we are a tax friendly place. So guess we just either lose the people and have no tax base under your plan, or we try our best to have those people here and increase the tax base by having people want to come here and start business.....you take your choice!
If you truly want to increase revenue, you do NOT do it through taxing a fixed number of businesses and individuals. You INCREASE the number of businesses and individuals. NOT drive them out as you libs propose!

[AndyC]

Getting back to my main point with AndyC, Newt, one thing is for sure. If you cut taxes/budgets, services will suffer. And that includes immigration officers working at Heathrow Airport.

As for where the money comes from, take a look at all the taxes you are paying when you buy an airline ticket. One of those fees is for airport security.

One would have to believe that cutting taxes always leads to reduced revenues to the government. That simply is not the case. No nation has ever taxed its way to prosperity

[JustRalph]

Moving van rep at the house today scoping my place out for the pack and move. He told me his company closed their last office in California a few weeks back. They moved across the border to Nevada to avoid the taxes. He says they do about 20 moves out of California for every move into the state.

New tax regs made them move the office. Some screwy rule says if they have an office in California they have to pay some new tax of 900 bucks for every truck in the fleet, per year. It was cheaper to move across the border.

[Cardus]

You guys see what they are doing?

Facebook down 10% today at this time.

CNN just ran a special segment on social media alternatives to Facebook. Leading off with a young trendy social media expert declaring [paraphrase]"I have had enough of facebook, no more...".
Fox is probably talking about it. News and TV media will follow.


It's often worth paying a premium.

A friend of mine, Paul-Jon McNealy, will be interviewed by CNBC this morning at 11:45 eastern time at the Stock Exchange regarding Facebook.

P.J. wrote a book recently regarding downloading video games through Facebook, or something similar to that. Regardless, he will discuss flaws in Facebook with CNBC.

[NJ Stinks]

One would have to believe that cutting taxes always leads to reduced revenues to the government. That simply is not the case. No nation has ever taxed its way to prosperity

I did not say a country taxed it's way to prosperity. I said if you cut taxes and start a war simultaneously, services will have to be cut on people who need them the most. The only reason most services/entitlements have not been cut to date is because of Obama and the Democrats.

A couple things are for sure IMO. If the poor turn out to vote in November, it won't help Romney. Another thing for sure is that ten years later the Bush tax cuts have still not had a positive effect on the U.S. economy.

[Greyfox]

The only reason most services/entitlements have not been cut to date is because of Obama and the Democrats.

:ThmbUp: Absolutely true, and therein lies the problem.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks
The only reason most services/entitlements have not been cut to date is because of Obama and the Democrats.

I think you believe this a good thing.
You do not have a problem with those who do the work and pay the taxes having to cut back, though, do you? You are willing to keep sucking them dry while some do not share the sacrifice.

In NY, welfare was RAISED, while those who pay for it - remember, the government never pays for anything - people do - work longer hours, pay more for gas to get to work, and have to cut their life styles. Sickening basterd of governor that we have.

This is why I hate - and I mean hate in the worst sense of the word -liberals.
They mouth the words of the idiot in chief, but not a one of them has a clue.
Shared sacrifice is code for soak the rich, which about all a liberal is worth - one stupid idea that will never work. No solutions to problems will ever come from the left. Ever.

[AndyC]

I did not say a country taxed it's way to prosperity. I said if you cut taxes and start a war simultaneously, services will have to be cut on people who need them the most. The only reason most services/entitlements have not been cut to date is because of Obama and the Democrats.

At the risk of sounding insensitive, there are far too many people getting services and entitlements who could really exist quite nicely without them. The only job some people have is figuring out the best way to get their "entitlements".

It's good that you realize that we can't tax our way to prosperity but that is what we seem to want to try. Most people just look at income taxes and claim that taxes were higher 15 years ago and everything was hunky dorry. But since then there have been a myriad of fees and costs heaped on individuals and businesses that eat away at our disposable income.

And once again, cutting taxes doesn't mean that revenues will fall. The Laffer curve explains that very nicely.

[DJofSD]

Good old Art. I haven't seen his face on TV for a while. I guess after he moved he is more or less retired.

[AndyC]

http://www.mtgriffith.com/web_documents/taxcutfacts.htm

[fast4522]

No disrespect to anyone for my next comment please:

This country functions best for all inside the "fat dumb and happy" mode, so called "change" means less pocket change for everybody. You people want to see eight percent growth again, it means sending Obozo back to Chicago to organize where he belongs. As Americans we have to come together for America and if need be reach into that kitchen draw for the clothespin to vote. Transportation is a whopping 30+ percent of our economy, no gas pipeline from Canada, left wing war on coal, failed transportation polices from this administration. President Ronald Reagan looked so great because he replaced Jimmy Carter the complete failure. If we continue this model everything will be lost forever, everything we know and love as Americans will be lost to integrate with the New World Order (Filth Inc.), it all hinges on you!

[NJ Stinks]

I think you believe this a good thing.
You do not have a problem with those who do the work and pay the taxes having to cut back, though, do you? You are willing to keep sucking them dry while some do not share the sacrifice.



Earth to Tom. 35% (the highest federal income tax rate) is not sucking anybody dry. If you can't see that simple fact, you need better glasses. :rolleyes:

[bigmack]

Earth to Tom. 35% (the highest federal income tax rate) is not sucking anybody dry. If you can't see that simple fact, you need better glasses. :rolleyes:
Oh Magoo, you've done it again

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/TopFederalIncomeTaxRates19162013ReferenceComparere viewsratings.png

http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=bst&media=WAVS&type=TV_Shows&movie=Mr_Magoo&quote=doneit.txt&file=doneit.wav

[NJ Stinks]

I think you get your information from Mr. Magoo, Macky.

[Tom]

Earth to Tom. 35% (the highest federal income tax rate) is not sucking anybody dry. If you can't see that simple fact, you need better glasses. :rolleyes:

Earth to stinky....the MIDDLE CLASS people who drive to work everyday, pay twice for gas what they did when Obama took office, maybe a single paycheck now thanks to the moronic economic policies of the left killing jobs, there people ARE being sucked dry. No raises the last three yers, expenses going up, thepople carrying the anchors are having to cut back while the anchors do not.

What the HELL planet do you live on?

[fast4522]

Heck New Jersey stinks for a reason right?