Canterbury reduces Pick 3 and Pick 4 takeout!!

[Goofyscott]

Great news as I love playing and going to Canterbury Track. They finally cut the takeout to be one of the lowest in the country now. Meet starts May 18th also!!!

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/69762/canterbury-cuts-takeout-39-on-pick-wagers?source=rss

[cj]

I'm certainly not going to complain about any takeout decrease, but I'm still waiting for somebody to cut win/place/show to the 10% range.

[duncan04]

I'm certainly not going to complain about any takeout decrease, but I'm still waiting for somebody to cut win/place/show to the 10% range.

Now that would be the day! If that ever happened I'd definitely bet the track that did that.

[Goofyscott]

Very true. Hopefully it also increases the pools. Last year it was very difficult to make any profit in the pick 3's and 4'sat Canterbury for me. I will wait and see this year.

I'm certainly not going to complain about any takeout decrease, but I'm still waiting for somebody to cut win/place/show to the 10% range.

[jelly]

Have never bet the track,Handle definitely low but will give it a shot. :ThmbUp:

[Turkoman]

I'm certainly not going to complain about any takeout decrease, but I'm still waiting for somebody to cut win/place/show to the 10% range.

I'm waiting too, and hope they don't do it after I'm dead.

[ronsmac]

I'm certainly not going to complain about any takeout decrease, but I'm still waiting for somebody to cut win/place/show to the 10% range.
Has anyone noticed it's always the pick 3 or 4 or 5 that's reduced. Never the exacta, even though Charles Town and Remington reduced Tri's, it's never reduced to 14 or 15 % like pick 4's. I'm just saying.

[RXB]

Has anyone noticed it's always the pick 3 or 4 or 5 that's reduced. Never the exacta, even though Charles Town and Remington reduced Tri's, it's never reduced to 14 or 15 % like pick 4's. I'm just saying.

They reduce the multi-race takeouts because the wagered amounts are lower. Then they blow their marketing horn about their reduced takeouts-- without actually reducing the total blended takeout by a significant amount.

No change to Canterbury's vicious 23% exacta takeout.

[billyball]

usually in last few years the p3-4 pools at canterbury were very small---some p3 pools under 1k---if they could double the pools the track would come out ahead---most of the very large number of ontrack patrons seem to bet $2wps and come for the cheap beer and hotdogs---canterbury seems to have one of larger numbers of ontrack attendance in the nation---but one of the smallest money bet per patron---wishing canterbury goodluck and looking forward to the meet---billyball

[Robert Goren]

usually in last few years the p3-4 pools at canterbury were very small---some p3 pools under 1k---if they could double the pools the track would come out ahead---most of the very large number of ontrack patrons seem to bet $2wps and come for the cheap beer and hotdogs---canterbury seems to have one of larger numbers of ontrack attendance in the nation---but one of the smallest money bet per patron---wishing canterbury goodluck and looking forward to the meet---billyball Maybe they count the poker players in their ontrack attendance numbers. It does have a very successful poker room. Sort of a minor league Foxwoods.

[andicap]

This begs the question: What kind of field sizes do u get at Canterbury? Do figs hold up there or are there a lot of inscrutable upsets? Is it one of those trainer-driven tracks where the ones with best needles (and vets) win 40% of the time like at Penn Nat?
I've never played the track but 14% on pik-3s sure gets my attention (assuming the pools increase)

[johnhannibalsmith]

This begs the question: What kind of field sizes do u get at Canterbury? Do figs hold up there or are there a lot of inscrutable upsets? Is it one of those trainer-driven tracks where the ones with best needles (and vets) win 40% of the time like at Penn Nat?
I've never played the track but 14% on pik-3s sure gets my attention (assuming the pools increase)

Field size is pretty average - according to the HANA chart, they hit at 7.92 which is just below Santa Anita, but above Hollywood, Aqueduct, and Belmont, for example. They will often run a handful of short fields early in the card with the beef later on, often in contentious maiden races an grass races, just like many other tracks.

For the most part, I wouldn't characterize CBY as one "of those" tracks. They have had some dominant trainers (ie Mac Robertson) but they aren't generally winning with recent claims that improve 52 and a third lengths in the new barn - they just tend to bring superior stock from places like Chicago and Florida - and seem to find the best spots for those horses.

I don't get a chance to play CBY very often, but I enjoy it when I can. Of course, that may be a bad thing for most considering the tracks I tend to enjoy :D , but I wouldn't discourage anyone from giving the place a chance.

[Turkoman]

They reduce the multi-race takeouts because the wagered amounts are lower. Then they blow their marketing horn about their reduced takeouts-- without actually reducing the total blended takeout by a significant amount.

No change to Canterbury's vicious 23% exacta takeout.

Same old little trick. They want to make people think they're making the move of the century, but only the ignorants will be fooled. In reality, they're giving horseplayers vinegar bars covered by chocolate.

[billyball]

opening night on track attendance per equibase was 8,844---on track handle $232,248=$26.26 per patron---off track handle $245,266---beautiful weather---beer lines were long all night---track owner curtis sampson's steeds won the 5th and 7th races($51.40 and $10.20)---that keyed a late 50 cent p4 with one winning ticket of $8237.90---$9579 in the pool---most p3 pools were in the 2-4K range---billyball

[JohnGalt1]

opening night on track attendance per equibase was 8,844---on track handle $232,248=$26.26 per patron---off track handle $245,266---beautiful weather---beer lines were long all night---track owner curtis sampson's steeds won the 5th and 7th races($51.40 and $10.20)---that keyed a late 50 cent p4 with one winning ticket of $8237.90---$9579 in the pool---most p3 pools were in the 2-4K range---billyball


Total handle was 30% higher than opening night last year.

I hope the trend continues.

[rgustafson]

I would guess that most if not all of that increase would have come in the pick three and pick four pools due to the lower takeout. Canterbury is my home track and I have been going there since it opened. The problem here is management can't find a way to get anyone to bet real money. Your per capita wagering figure from those on track betting the local product ($26) says it all. It has to be one of the lowest in the country. In 1985 when the track opened, I have seen conflicting figures that pegged the per capita wagering at either in the mid $50 or just over $70 for the initial meet. They would kill for those numbers now, and imagine what the inflation adjusted numbers would be to equal that amount. Hopefully the reduced takeout is a step in the right direction.

[therussmeister]

The problem here is management can't find a way to get anyone to bet real money.
The real problem is that management can't get anyone out-of-state to bet the product. On track handle is huge compared to a lot of tracks - Hawthorne, for instance, or any other track with total handle in Hawthorne's range, but out-of-state handle is miniscule compared to these tracks.

[comet52]

Yeah I lived up there back then and I knew a guy who hit a p6 for 75k and that was a 1/4 share if I recall. Those kind of p6 pots were routine during the early years. Nothing like that these days.

[rgustafson]

As of last year they eliminated the pick six altogether. Added a second pick four and now are trying to build those pools.

[andicap]

Same old little trick. They want to make people think they're making the move of the century, but only the ignorants will be fooled. In reality, they're giving horseplayers vinegar bars covered by chocolate.

So what's the problem? Avoid the exactas and play the pik-3s. Take what they give you.

[castaway01]

The real problem is that management can't get anyone out-of-state to bet the product. On track handle is huge compared to a lot of tracks - Hawthorne, for instance, or any other track with total handle in Hawthorne's range, but out-of-state handle is miniscule compared to these tracks.

You're right. Canterbury has something unusual going on---casual fans who actually go to the track, hang out, and bet a few bucks. Hey, at least people attend, which is rare these days at a meet that's not Del Mar, Keeneland, or Saratoga. They're just not hardcore gamblers, and it's the hardcores around the country ignoring the track that limit its growth.

Nice job on the takeout reduction. It's a start anyway. Maybe people in simulcast-land will start paying more attention.

[Track Phantom]

I've bet Canterbury (my home track) since 1986.

They've been at a purse disadvantage yearly since racino money has come on the scene. Overall, they've done a great job keeping the place hip and fun for a younger audience. However, just like racing as a whole, newbies have little interest in taking the game seriously from a betting standpoint. Not sure how that will change.

As far as racing quality goes, it's about average. Because of the massive class differential (OP shippers dominating TUP shippers), the prices tend to be short. If you beat a favorite or two in the pick 4, you can take the pool.

It's the one track I focus on in the summer simply because there are a lot of nuances I know about due to experience.

[billyball]

one way to promote the p/4 or p/3 would be for paul allen to announce the "will pays" over the pa system early before the last leg of said bet---they show them a short time on the monitors most often but some times when a p/3 and p/4 are both going into the last leg they leave the p/3 will pay up for minutes while ignoring the p/4---some of the people in the information booths if you mention this have a puzzled look like "whats a will pay"---announcing the payoffs would also let the thousands in attendance hear about the money that is available by playing the horizontal wagers---the more that they hear about the payoffs maybe it will induce them to take a shot---they talk about the low take out all during the card but when you want some information that is easy to get over the internet at the live track it is hard to come by---

[Track Phantom]

one way to promote the p/4 or p/3 would be for paul allen to announce the "will pays" over the pa system early before the last leg of said bet---they show them a short time on the monitors most often but some times when a p/3 and p/4 are both going into the last leg they leave the p/3 will pay up for minutes while ignoring the p/4---some of the people in the information booths if you mention this have a puzzled look like "whats a will pay"---announcing the payoffs would also let the thousands in attendance hear about the money that is available by playing the horizontal wagers---the more that they hear about the payoffs maybe it will induce them to take a shot---they talk about the low take out all during the card but when you want some information that is easy to get over the internet at the live track it is hard to come by---

One of the things that irritates me the most is not showing the willpays. I cannot believe they market the P4 but do not show what they will pay going into the last leg. Why is this even a discussion point?!?!! Seriously amazing.

Another thing I like is when tracks announce the number of live tickets remaining after each leg of a pick 6, 5 or 4. That is pretty cool. Wish they would do that more.

[Robert Goren]

In order to get a $26 average, something has to be go on. That is just over $2 a race. The $2 bettor hardly ever passes a race when he at the track. You know there at least some $5 and $10 bettors. People are either coming very late or they are counting people who aren't betting on the horses. I suspect the latter.

[rgustafson]

Robert, You are right that they count some people that don't bet, but after all it is a per capita measurement so you do count every paid admission. The track by far, is the cheapest form of an afternoon or evening entertainment in the metro ($5 admission and free parking) compared to the sports teams and even going to a movie. I believe that though they have done a great job getting people in the door, many of them come to eat and drink ( and these prices are lower than other venues as well) and watch the races. As another poster mentioned, they are not getting the out of state money that other venues get which hurts the overall handle.Hopefully the lowered take out on the pick threes and pick fours will attract some of this money

[Bettowin]

The last couple of times I was at Canterbury I was amazed at how young the crowd was. Not everyone was betting and some of the groups of 4 or 6 people would each throw in a buck and do an exacta box. Other posters are right when they say it is the best bang for your buck entertainment in the area not to mention people there are outside as much as possible during the summer:)

[therussmeister]

They count everyone that enters into the racetrack part of the building after a certain time of day, but not the poker room. A lot of horse players may be just playing the simulcasts.

[rgustafson]

They count everyone that enters into the racetrack part of the building after a certain time of day, but not the poker room. A lot of horse players may be just playing the simulcasts.

You are right about the simulcasts. The bigger players that I have known over the years and are regulars there bet very little if anything on the local product.

[cnollfan]

I always make it to Canterbury for the Dog Days contest, this year Aug. 17 - 20.
Pretty track, friendly management, good simulcasting, good paddock, good outside seating, good food, good atmosphere. I wish the horses were faster and more money was bet locally, but unlike many racetracks, they are trying.