Biting the hand that feeds

[DJofSD]

More proof that liberalism is a mental disorder: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-attacks-private-equity-raises-funds-private-equity-leaders_644470.html

[mostpost]

More proof that liberalism is a mental disorder: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-attacks-private-equity-raises-funds-private-equity-leaders_644470.html

Proof that conservatism is a mental disorder: Any post by DJofSD.

Any fool can see that Obama is not attacking private equity per se, but rather private equity that earns its profits by causing companies to fail. In other words, Bain Capital. Private Equity firms that earn their profits by helping companies to succeed are an obviously important part of out economy.

If a private equity firm invests in a company in order to provide capital for growth then that PE firm has a right to share in the success of that company.
If a PE firm invests in a company in order to tear down that company and scavenge its bones, then that PE firm has a no right to any profit.

[ArlJim78]

he begs for money from a large private equity firm so that he can run ads against Mitt Romney for running a private equity firm. typical nonsense.

It's like the democratic convention in North Carolina, they're making a big claim that they are not taking any corporate money. But if you read the fine print they are not taking corporate money "for the formal nominating process"
For the rest on it they are only too happy to accept money from the hated evil corporations. what is the formal nominating process anyway, the hour or so that they take the role call?

[Greyfox]

If a PE firm invests in a company in order to tear down that company and scavenge its bones, then that PE firm has a no right to any profit.

Obviously none of us want to see companies fail and people lose jobs.
But your comment above just does not make sense.
Of course a PE firm has a right to make a profit on failing ventures that they have to disassemble.

[Robert Goren]

These companies do provide a service to the economy, but to claim that a former ceo of one is an expert on creating jobs because he ran one is a bit of stretch. If you want a business person who knows about creating jobs, then get someone like Bill Gates or the Google founders who actual grew a company from nothing to a large employer. Romney may or not know how to create jobs, but his record as businessman does support his claim that he does.

[Saratoga_Mike]

These companies do provide a service to the economy, but to claim that a former ceo of one is an expert on creating jobs because he ran one is a bit of stretch. If you want a business person who knows about creating jobs, then get someone like Bill Gates or the Google founders who actual grew a company from nothing to a large employer. Romney may or not know how to create jobs, but his record as businessman does support his claim that he does.

When he started Bain Capital, it had about 10 employees. When he left it had over 100 employees. I guess high-paying financial-services jobs don't count.

[mostpost]

Obviously none of us want to see companies fail and people lose jobs.
But your comment above just does not make sense.
Of course a PE firm has a right to make a profit on failing ventures that they have to disassemble.
Romney and Bain Capital did not make a profit on profit on failing ventures that they had to disassemble. They made a profit on successful ventures that they deliberately caused to fail. Three examples can be found here:
http://www.romneyeconomics.com
Dade Behring; Armco Steel and Stage Stores all of which Bain bought, saddled with debt and siphoned profits from.

What doesn't make sense is your blind, unquestioning faith in these scumbags.

[mostpost]

When he started Bain Capital, it had about 10 employees. When he left it had over 100 employees. I guess high-paying financial-services jobs don't count.

Three companies that Bain Capital bought and destroyed.

Dade Behring: Jobs lost 2,937.
Armco Steel (Renamed GST) Jobs lost 750
Stage Stores: Jobs lost 5,794

Total jobs lost 9,518. At three companies.
Jobs gained at Bain Capital: 90

90 jobs that each cost 106 jobs.
90 jobs that contributed nothing to the economy at the expense of 9,518 jobs that kept families fed, kids in school, people housed. Jobs that contributed to the well being of many. As opposed to 90 jobs that allowed some fat cat to buy another Lexus or rent another time share. Do you have any idea how screwed up your priorities are.

And let me remind you that all of these companies were doing well before Bain acquired them and their demise could be directly attributed to Bain's policies.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Three companies that Bain Capital bought and destroyed.

Dade Behring: Jobs lost 2,937.
Armco Steel (Renamed GST) Jobs lost 750
Stage Stores: Jobs lost 5,794

Total jobs lost 9,518. At three companies.
Jobs gained at Bain Capital: 90

90 jobs that each cost 106 jobs.
90 jobs that contributed nothing to the economy at the expense of 9,518 jobs that kept families fed, kids in school, people housed. Jobs that contributed to the well being of many. As opposed to 90 jobs that allowed some fat cat to buy another Lexus or rent another time share. Do you have any idea how screwed up your priorities are.

And let me remind you that all of these companies were doing well before Bain acquired them and their demise could be directly attributed to Bain's policies.

We can play that game - how employees does Staples have? Bright Horizons? You can't have it both ways. He either gets credits on the good deals or you can't blame him on the bad deals. Anyway, I don't believe your Dade numbers. I'll go back to their old 10Ks.

[Robert Goren]

When he started Bain Capital, it had about 10 employees. When he left it had over 100 employees. I guess high-paying financial-services jobs don't count.So many employees work at Google or Microsoft? they went from 0 to thousands. Bain Capital is small potatoes when it comes to employees. My parting lots went from 15 employees to over a hundred during the time I worked there but I don't claim to be a major job creator because we didn't create any jobs. We just aquired some new parking lots. The employees were already there. The only thing that happened was the name changed on their paychecks. The same thing happened at Bain Capital. Only fewer people got paychecks when Bain Capital took over.

[Saratoga_Mike]

So many employees work at Google or Microsoft? they went from 0 to thousands. Bain Capital is small potatoes when it comes to employees. My parting lots went from 15 employees to over a hundred during the time I worked there but I don't claim to be a major job creator because we didn't create any jobs. We just aquired some new parking lots. The employees were already there. The only thing that happened was the name changed on their paychecks. The same thing happened at Bain Capital. Only fewer people got paychecks when Bain Capital took over.

You're making statements with no facts. Try going to sec.gov and pulling up Dade's financials (form 10K) that contains employee counts. I will do this sometime this week, a quick look already tells me MP's claims about Dade are wrong.

[Tom]

Sometimes companies HAVE to be gutted to survive.
One I worked for was bought out after bankruptcy by a turn-around specialist. They closed several plants, laid off hundreds of people, dumped many non-profitable product lines and cut expenses to the bone (it HURT!)

But the few plants that survived became profitable.
Nothing else matters.

The purpose of a business is to make money, not create jobs.
Like it or not, that is reality.

Because companies that make money do create jobs, and companies that exist to create jobs don't make money, or create jobs.

[Tom]

Speaking of jobs, Romney sould be talking about the several million porkulus bucks going to a green company in Canada, not the USA, to bail it out.
It employees 2 people. Total. 2!

2!

[mostpost]

We can play that game - how employees does Staples have? Bright Horizons? You can't have it both ways. He either gets credits on the good deals or you can't blame him on the bad deals. Anyway, I don't believe your Dade numbers. I'll go back to their old 10Ks.

Fact Checker gives Romney three Pinoccios for his claim that he created 89,000 jobs at Staples. They say that he counted jobs that were created long after he ceased to have any input into the day to day operations of the company. If he ever had any to begin with. Also, Romney's claims do not take into account jobs lost at small independent stationery stores forced out of business by Staples and other mega stores.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Romney's claims do not take into account jobs lost at small independent stationery stores forced out of business by Staples and other mega stores.

In other words, the only jobs worth creating are public sector jobs where there is no threat of competition and resulting failure. Really... when you start bemoaning that jobs "created" were detrimental because the success caused others to fail and job loss resulted... you've pretty much decided to come with anything at all.

[Tom]

He brought a knife to a gun fight.

[mostpost]

In other words, the only jobs worth creating are public sector jobs where there is no threat of competition and resulting failure. Really... when you start bemoaning that jobs "created" were detrimental because the success caused others to fail and job loss resulted... you've pretty much decided to come with anything at all.

Talk about misinterpreting! :bang: If Staples opens a store in your town and causes five office supply stores to go out of business with a loss of 65 Jobs, the 50 people staples hires is not a gain of 50 jobs. It is a loss of 15.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Sometimes companies HAVE to be gutted to survive.
One I worked for was bought out after bankruptcy by a turn-around specialist. They closed several plants, laid off hundreds of people, dumped many non-profitable product lines and cut expenses to the bone (it HURT!)

But the few plants that survived became profitable.
Nothing else matters.

The purpose of a business is to make money, not create jobs.
Like it or not, that is reality.

Because companies that make money do create jobs, and companies that exist to create jobs don't make money, or create jobs.

Funny how that works!

[mostpost]

He brought a knife to a gun fight.
I bring a knife. You bring a nuclear arsenal. I still win. ;)

[Saratoga_Mike]

Talk about misinterpreting! :bang: If Staples opens a store in your town and causes five office supply stores to go out of business with a loss of 65 Jobs, the 50 people staples hires is not a gain of 50 jobs. It is a loss of 15.

Yes, I can't understand why Obama bailed out the auto industry. Do you realize how many horse-and-buggy jobs were killed by the auto industry?

Also, checkout scanners have resulted in far fewer cashiers at grocery stores. Bad checkout scanner companies!

EZ-Pass, a true evil, displacing loyal union toll collectors. Very, very bad EZ-Pass.

Bad NetFlix, helping killing off Blockbuster.

It's called progress!

[johnhannibalsmith]

Talk about misinterpreting! :bang: If Staples opens a store in your town and causes five office supply stores to go out of business with a loss of 65 Jobs, the 50 people staples hires is not a gain of 50 jobs. It is a loss of 15.

The misinterpretation isn't on this end... I don't think... he wasn't creating jobs for America the Beautiful at that point in time, he was creating jobs for his enterprises. If he did that, then he created jobs. To apply your standard that there was a net loss because his successes led to losses elsewhere in the private sector is totally irrelevant.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The misinterpretation isn't on this end... I don't think... he wasn't creating jobs for America the Beautiful at that point in time, he was creating jobs for his enterprises. If he did that, then he created jobs. To apply your standard that there was a net loss because his successes led to losses elsewhere in the private sector is totally irrelevant.

...and if you don't mind, the idea that capitalism is a zero-sum game is nonsense.

[Tom]

Talk about misinterpreting! :bang: If Staples opens a store in your town and causes five office supply stores to go out of business with a loss of 65 Jobs, the 50 people staples hires is not a gain of 50 jobs. It is a loss of 15.

So mostie, is this exact method you describe used by the Obama-bots when they point to all the jobs he has created with stimulus and whatever other voodoo they use over there?

And can you point me to the details of each job they claim to have created?

And, a question, if Obamacare kills 50,000 good manufacturing jobs, but we end up with 100,000 more McDonald's jobs, is that a gain of 50,000 jobs, and a good thing that Obama did?

[bigmack]

Let Mostie and his ilk say anything they want. Fact is, Romney wins in a landslide.

Watch all of their "nothing to see here" attitude about unemployment, gas prices & debt to change DRAMATICALLY come post-Novemba.

[NJ Stinks]

Yes, I can't understand why Obama bailed out the auto industry. Do you realize how many horse-and-buggy jobs were killed by the auto industry?

Also, checkout scanners have resulted in far fewer cashiers at grocery stores. Bad checkout scanner companies!

EZ-Pass, a true evil, displacing loyal union toll collectors. Very, very bad EZ-Pass.

Bad NetFlix, helping killing off Blockbuster.

It's called progress!

I wouldn't be caught dead using a checkout scanner. People who don't think about other people do.

Ditto with EZ-Pass. I want toll collectors to keep their jobs. Probably awfully French of me.

Never rented from NetFlix either.

Pretty simple, really. If I can stop somebody from losing a job and all it takes is waiting in line, I'm waiting in line.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I wouldn't be caught dead using a checkout scanner. People who don't think about other people do.

...

Oh I see... so now you are trying to put the people that assemble checkout scanners out of a job. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:




:kiss:

[NJ Stinks]

Oh I see... so now you are trying to put the people that assemble checkout scanners out of a job. :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:




:kiss:

That's the kind of job Romney would create in China. Or the Philippines. :faint:

At least I know the toll collector or cashier is from here.

[Tom]

You mean Mr. Patel?