TSN-BRIS?

[Niko]

I've seen this somewhat mentioned in the past but don't remember a definitive answer.
Are the TSN and BRIS Speed and Pace Figs the same?
If they're different has anyone noticed a positive or negative result using TSN instead of BRIS? Easier to ask then downloading a few files.
Thanks

[BillW]

Originally posted by Niko
I've seen this somewhat mentioned in the past but don't remember a definitive answer.
Are the TSN and BRIS Speed and Pace Figs the same?
If they're different has anyone noticed a positive or negative result using TSN instead of BRIS? Easier to ask then downloading a few files.
Thanks

They're different ... don't mix them. I have about 25000 Bris races anf 50000 TSN races and they look about the same. Also note that the derived figures (class, prime power etc) are derived from their respective base data, which wasn't always the case.

Bill

[rrbauer]

It used to be that the BRIS stuff came from data that BRIS got from DRF. And, TSN stuff came from data that BRIS got from Equibase. Since Equibase now supplies DRF, I'm not sure what differences exist.

Send them an email and ask them.

[BillW]

Originally posted by rrbauer
It used to be that the BRIS stuff came from data that BRIS got from DRF. And, TSN stuff came from data that BRIS got from Equibase. Since Equibase now supplies DRF, I'm not sure what differences exist.

Send them an email and ask them.

Richard,

They calculate their speed/pace figs differently.

Bill

[Niko]

Thanks for the responses. I'll give a few of their files a try and see what happens.

[HTRFGuy]

Originally posted by Niko
I've seen this somewhat mentioned in the past but don't remember a definitive answer.
Are the TSN and BRIS Speed and Pace Figs the same?
If they're different has anyone noticed a positive or negative result using TSN instead of BRIS? Easier to ask then downloading a few files.
Thanks

They are different but highly correlated.

1st Call...

TSN = -6.32 + .991 x BRIS
Corelation Coeff. = .96

2nd Call...

TSN = -4.71 + .936 x BRIS
Correclation Coeff. = .90

Final Call..

TSN = -5.81 + .996 x BRIS
Corrleation Coeff. = .986!

Thus, for stubby pencil handicapping, TSN = BRIS - 6

[Niko]

Then it looks like it would be worth it to switch to their comma-delimited files to save a little money if I can expect the same/similar results. The money adds up after a year.
Anyone else taken this road?

[HTRFGuy]

Originally posted by Niko
Then it looks like it would be worth it to switch to their comma-delimited files to save a little money if I can expect the same/similar results. The money adds up after a year.
Anyone else taken this road?

Yes but remember that the TSN files DO NOT include an explicit daily track variant! So, it all depends upon how you use the data files. If you are not using the data in your own software for computations and are merely using the speed and pace ratings then you should be OK.

[Larry Hamilton]

HTRF guy, thanks for the correlation, hope you dont mind if I save it

There is one more difference to mention and that is text names..They found a way to do most names differently.

[marcus]

hope you got my e-mail i got yours, what i stated, if you did this you would have got 12 out of 12 WINNERS at the 2 meetings at uk tracks today regards marcus

[Larry Hamilton]

I made three points to marcus:

1. restate your request.

2. we must corresponde as I am a trouble magnet.

3. Are you this punter? I listed one

Now as to did I receive his email....no. It would have been damed difficult to mess that up when all you have to do is reply.

Since he has chosen to make more out of our correspondence than exists, I am no longer neutral.

This whole deal stinks.

[marcus]

check your e-mail did you? 2nd lot of answers :no im not this punter, so you are in trouble thats your problem, my request if you had read the thread ( uk tipster coming to florida) is in the original thread try and read BEFORE passing judgement.

[Larry Hamilton]

still no email...

Dare: find the English gambling contest that he is self-programed king of two years running...

I have no trouble with this guy mining this site for suckers, I do resent being publically included in his mine attempts...

[JimL]

Bris has their past performances posted almost a day before Tsn. I am talking about morning line and scratches. I sometimes call and ask TSN to please post Turfway and Beulah.

[Tom]

Originally posted by HTRFGuy
They are different but highly correlated.

1st Call...

TSN = -6.32 + .991 x BRIS
Corelation Coeff. = .96

2nd Call...

TSN = -4.71 + .936 x BRIS
Correclation Coeff. = .90

Final Call..

TSN = -5.81 + .996 x BRIS
Corrleation Coeff. = .986!

Thus, for stubby pencil handicapping, TSN = BRIS - 6

[mhrussell]

to HTRFGuy

Thanks for the curve fits.. quick question for you: is the Final call the Late Pace or the Speed Fig?

Going to add this to my collection.. I can now convert between just about every speed/pace fig on the planet...

Thanks!

[HTRFGuy]

Originally posted by mhrussell
to HTRFGuy

Thanks for the curve fits.. quick question for you: is the Final call the Late Pace or the Speed Fig?

Going to add this to my collection.. I can now convert between just about every speed/pace fig on the planet...

Thanks!

It is the Late Pace.

[andicap]

the 6 ponts -- am I missing something or is this across the board for all the pace calls and final times?

Recember at TSN/BRIS, two points is a length generally for pace times and 1 pt is length at final time.

[HTRFGuy]

Originally posted by andicap
the 6 ponts -- am I missing something or is this across the board for all the pace calls and final times?

Recember at TSN/BRIS, two points is a length generally for pace times and 1 pt is length at final time.

In my original post of the correlations between BRIS and TSN I provided a fit that compared BRIS and TSN PACE RATINGS (Not Speed Ratings) at three points of call. First call, second call, and Final. The correlation was based upon published values of PACE RATINGS (not time) in their respective data files. The correlation that I furnished had nothing to do with times or lengths albeit the pace ratings are of course based upon time but this is not the computation that I made. It was simply the correlation between two columns of pace rating, a BRIS column and a TSN column.

The inquiry regarding the Final Call correlation was if it dealt with the late pace rating or the speed rating. I responsed that it was the late pace rating AND NOT the speed rating.

[Tom]

I once loaded several days races into Access -TSN and BRIS files and then looked at all winner's speed rating for both. The conversion was not simple-some were about 8 points different, some only a point, etc..
They may not use the same variants andpars for the figs.
I'll try this agin and see what I get.
Should not take a large samle soze to see if it is worth the effort.

[Tom]

I used Friday's Belmont PPs to compare only winning TSN SR and BRIS SR. The differences varied al lover the place. I used dirt only and seperated by distance - no real comparison appeared, such as +6 or -3 or whatever. The varaiations were from 1 to 14 points for the same races. I stopped after one day.

[Tom]

Up

There was some talk about TSN vs BRIS in Software...this is related.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Tom
I used Friday's Belmont PPs to compare only winning TSN SR and BRIS SR. The differences varied al lover the place. I used dirt only and seperated by distance - no real comparison appeared, such as +6 or -3 or whatever. The varaiations were from 1 to 14 points for the same races. I stopped after one day.

Tom,

That was my recollection from an "informal" study I did a few years ago. I decided to just seperate them in my database and forget a coorelation.

Bill