Open season for touts

[horses4courses]

Surfing through the DRF website this afternoon, I was reminded that it is the time of year for touts to peddle their info (loose definition) on the upcoming Derby.

The ads I saw today were for John Piesen. He, and Gasper Moschera, come to mind as the most brazen when it comes to money making fiction.
I can't state with certainty that their claims are false, but I would wager heavily that this is the case.

There are some bona fide services out there, so to claim that they are all thieves would be a disservice.
Genuine suppliers of speed figures, and established clockers, are a prime example of reputable services.

As far as I'm concerned, though, people should be warned to stear clear of the likes of Piesen and Moschera.

Please feel free to share thoughts, or experiences.

Good luck in the KY Derby!

[judd]

how can you say that? piesen and gasper are former horsemen :D :D :eek:

[bigmack]

No one comes close to Piesen.


http://www.johnpiesen.com/images/070308-4thOfJuly.jpg

[Grits]

I can't believe that anyone, and I truly mean ANYONE is stupid enough to buy this stuff. Amazing. :lol: Where do these people go to bet, heaven forbid, I'd be caught near one.

[turninforhome10]

Well, shoot this guy must be genius
FULL CARD CHAMPION JOHN PIESEN
SAYS THE 2012 KENTUCKY DERBY
ISN'T ABOUT HORSES
IT'S ABOUT MONEY



Apr. 28: Derby Trial
Hierro - WIN $12.00
Apr. 14: Arkansas Derby
Bodemeister - WIN $6.80...Exacta $21.40
Apr. 14: Blue Grass Stakes
Dullahan - WIN $8.40... - Exacta 23.60
Apr. 7: Wood Memorial
Gemologist - WIN $4.40... Exacta $12.20
Mar. 25: Sunland Derby
Daddy Nose Best - WIN $9.40
Mar. 24: Rushaway Stakes
Flashy Dresser - WIN $5.60... Exacta $22.20 - Trifecta $68.60 - Superfecta $157.80
Mar. 24: Spiral Stakes
Went The Day Well - WIN $12.40
Mar. 17: Private Terms
Raconteur - WIN $5.60
Mar. 17: Rebel
Secret Circle - WIN $4.00
Mar. 10: Tampa Bay Derby
Prospective WIN $8.20
Mar. 3: Gotham
Hansen WIN $3.60...Exacta $17.60
Mar. 3: John Battaglia
State Of Play - WIN $6.00 - Exacta $36.00 - Trifecta $137.40
Feb. 26: Fountain Of Youth
Union Rags - WIN $4.40
Feb. 25: Risen Star
El Padrino - WIN $3.60 - Exacta $12.00
Feb. 20: Southwest (Div I)
Castaway - WIN $15.40
Feb. 20: Southwest Stakes (Div II)
Secret Circle - WIN $3.20
Feb. 19: San Vicente
Drill - WIN $9.60
Feb. 18: El Camino Real Derby
Daddy Nose Best - WIN $10.20 - Exacta $38.80


He has picked them all. Right

[tbwinner]

LOL....is he just giving a recap of the winners? Or did he give out 7 selections per race?

Darn....he missed Hero of Order though in LA derby!

[Milkshaker]

Slogan should instead be: "It isn't about horses, it's about ego!"

[lamboguy]

Kevin Duffy was in the New York Post for years, and he never had a losing week betting the NFL!

[Tom]

Thanks for the reminder.....anyone got Mike Warren's address? :p

[Canarsie]

With the internet reaching lots of people is relatively cheap but I still wonder how many people actually buy stuff from shady characters.

They could just log on here and get detailed analysis for nothing and gain some knowledge to boot.

[Fingal]

There have been a few envelopes showing up, & my shredder loves this time of year.

[tzipi]

Someone last year around this time said these guys give out 3 sometimes 4 horses a race and say exacta box them. If one of the three or four horses wins they say....they picked it! :ThmbUp:

[dav4463]

I can't believe that anyone, and I truly mean ANYONE is stupid enough to buy this stuff. Amazing. :lol: Where do these people go to bet, heaven forbid, I'd be caught near one.


I don't talk bad about you! :confused:

[judd]

none of these guys picked the winner, but they won cause people send them money for picks :D

[wisconsin]

Someone last year around this time said these guys give out 3 sometimes 4 horses a race and say exacta box them. If one of the three or four horses wins they say....they picked it! :ThmbUp:


Is this really any different than the tout sheets some people buy at the track?

[iceknight]

With the internet reaching lots of people is relatively cheap but I still wonder how many people actually buy stuff from shady characters.

They could just log on here and get detailed analysis for nothing and gain some knowledge to boot.

Some of these scamsters also have malware on their website, where they make more money.. even if someone does not sign up for their subscription etc..


Agree with your point that PA is a great place to get analysis to complement one's own picks

[judd]

just got postcard, -john piesen--says derby day sat, i had 2nd 3rd & 4th place finishers, but not the winner. I plan on getting back the money with my
opening day shocker at monmouth park. he says i cant wait to get over finishing a tough beat, having 3 of the top four finishers in the derby with dullahan, bodemeister and went the day well, not having the winner.


but he keeps all the checks people mailed to him !! :D :bang: :lol: :eek:

[Lt1]

I have used one of Gasper's angle from his book Trainers Hidden Form Angle and did so well that I was providing my picks to him for use by his high roller customers. Gasper asked permission to use me in one of his ads which can be found at King of the Dark Horse.com. All examples listed were hit by me. I have found Gasper to be honest . I do my own handicapping but when I was without a computer I did play Gasper's picks and did ok.

[judd]

I have used one of Gasper's angle from his book Trainers Hidden Form Angle and did so well that I was providing my picks to him for use by his high roller customers. Gasper asked permission to use me in one of his ads which can be found at King of the Dark Horse.com. All examples listed were hit by me. I have found Gasper to be honest . I do my own handicapping but when I was without a computer I did play Gasper's picks and did ok.


who did gasper pick in the derby ?

[Lt1]

I don't know who he picked since I haven't been in contact with him for a year. He did pick Animal Kingdom last year.

[jk3521]

I have used one of Gasper's angle from his book Trainers Hidden Form Angle and did so well that I was providing my picks to him for use by his high roller customers. Gasper asked permission to use me in one of his ads which can be found at King of the Dark Horse.com. All examples listed were hit by me. I have found Gasper to be honest . I do my own handicapping but when I was without a computer I did play Gasper's picks and did ok.
I have the book . Would you be willing to disclose which of the angles that you found useful, at least on what page in the book?

[rrpic6]

Thanks for the reminder.....anyone got Mike Warren's address? :p
Try calling 1-800-MIKE-WIN. Probably been disconnected for 20 years. His big steam was Speakerphone in the Preakness back in the 90's. I think the nag finished last!
RR

[judd]

there was a guy named murry kram, he actually was pretty good
gave me some $30 winners--this was years ago-dont know if hes still living

[mistergee]

when i was a kid i had some giant scores with Mike Warrens Saratoga pics, I am guessing now it was just good timing, some 20 yrs later I am sad to say curiousity got the best of me and I paid for Gasper Moschera road to the derby prep race selections, out of about 15 prep races he had maybe 1 chalk winners and the rest all not only losers but almost all off the board

[David-LV]

there was a guy named Murray Kram, he actually was pretty good
gave me some $30 winners--this was years ago-dont know if hes still living

Murray is very much alive and living in Las Vegas and still is one hell of a contest player.

________
David-LV

[Lt1]

I have the book . Would you be willing to disclose which of the angles that you found useful, at least on what page in the book?

Sure it is the apprentice jockey riding a horse that has raced in the last 28 days. During my time with Gasper I played 500 horses with a 20% win rate an a $17 win price. Also these horses were in the exacta 47% of the time. I only applied the angle to horses that were contenders. I elimated angle horses who were not contenders. About 5% of those horses did win. I had 6 triple digit winners during that time frame. I played Parx and all 3 NY tracks. My biggest win in NY was $96 in a mdn race at Belmont. Hope this helped and good luck

Tim G

[Bullet Plane]

How about the amazing Kelso Sturgis?

Anybody heard from him lately?

[PaceAdvantage]

I have edited the title of this thread and the initial post.

I suggest some of you need to go back and refresh your memories as to the Terms of Service rules you agreed to when you registered your user name here:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/TOS_PrivacyStatement.html

This section specifically applies to this thread:You agree not to use this forum to accuse anyone, any company or any product or service of being "stupid" or a "fraud" or to use a term like "snake oil" to describe a particular product, as such terms may be viewed as defamatory and abusive.

[Dave Schwartz]

How about the amazing Kelso Sturgis?

I assume you mean "Kelso Sturgeon."

He wrote a very worthwhile sports handicapping book back in the '70s (I think). Never met or spoke to him but his book contained a baseball system that absolutely worked back then.

I am friends with his son on Facebook. (Who is Kelso Sturgeon as well.)


Truthfully, I have never understood all the anger towards touts. Sure, most of them are bad. Maybe none of them are profitable. But there is a segment of our population that is just not as advanced as you guys but will to pay someone who is advanced. (Or they believe to be advanced.)

My point is, some companies sell "information" in the form of reports. Many people complain that their is too much information, so the report shrinks. Maybe it shrinks down to a single number for each horse. Call it a speed rating if you like, or a confidence number.

A few guys might carry it a step further and produce a list that says, "Bet these horses."

Why is that evil?



Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Bullet Plane]

Dave,


I don't really know anything about him; except that I used to get a lot of mail from him around this time of year...

Never got any of his stuff...

Maybe he is good, I don't know.

My comment was childish and uncalled for....I apologize.

[mistergee]

My memory was that Kelso Sturgeon was originally a jocks agent, who became a handicapper of not only horses but I believe sports gambling as well. Only thing I remember actually seeing that he did was a video that showed what he looked for in the post parade. I used to get ads from him in the past but none as of late.

[jimmy m]

Kelso was one of the many co hosts of the Roger Stein show for many years.Does paying for a Seminar count as touts.Back in the 80s one of the first radio shows was The Inside Track with Steve Arthur,Jerry Antonucci,Bruce Finklestein and Prof Gordon Jones.They used to do seminars every weekend during Hollywood Park at the old red Motel across the street forget the name.They used to charge 25 bucks but had good coffee and doughnuts.They were ok a few good winners but nothing i could not have gotten on my own they also put out a monthly magazine too.The other 3 are still around i have never found out what happend to Steve Arthur he just disappeared did see him once at Los Al harness around 1992.