This is why i love Belmont

[PhantomOnTour]

Race 7 today at 1m on the turf - MSW 3+

What value to be had with these pedigrees and trainers.

Suns Out Guns Out - Romans
making his turf debut, by Empire Maker out of a Smart Strike mare, and my key horse...6-1

Darwin Award - Mott
by Johannesburg out of a Boundary (Danzig) mare, also making his turf debut for a dangerous barn...24-1

Redemption Road - J Jerkens
barn always dangerous first time going long, Garcia up...11-1

Coexist - Kimmel
first timer by Giant's Causeway out of an Afleet mare...Afleet is good with firsters, not sure about his broodmare production. Ramon up...25-1 WINNER.

And on and on...these races are the ones that blow up P3 and P4 payoffs.
Gotta spread but you can catch bonafide horses at very nice prices.
Hopefully this will continue all summer long.

And no, i didn't have the winner :(

[Tom]

Make up for it on the thrilling feature stake today.....been waiting for this quality of racing all winter!

Next year, make the Westchester a turf sprint..... get get 5 or 6.

[cj]

Make up for it on the thrilling feature stake today.....been waiting for this quality of racing all winter!

Next year, make the Westchester a turf sprint..... get get 5 or 6.

I think it was a good card, but the feature was embarrassing.

[Tom]

I used to complain about the 5 horse stakes as Belmont.
Guess I should have been happy back then!

[Valuist]

Race 7 today at 1m on the turf - MSW 3+

What value to be had with these pedigrees and trainers.

Suns Out Guns Out - Romans
making his turf debut, by Empire Maker out of a Smart Strike mare, and my key horse...6-1

Darwin Award - Mott
by Johannesburg out of a Boundary (Danzig) mare, also making his turf debut for a dangerous barn...24-1

Redemption Road - J Jerkens
barn always dangerous first time going long, Garcia up...11-1

Coexist - Kimmel
first timer by Giant's Causeway out of an Afleet mare...Afleet is good with firsters, not sure about his broodmare production. Ramon up...25-1 WINNER.

And on and on...these races are the ones that blow up P3 and P4 payoffs.
Gotta spread but you can catch bonafide horses at very nice prices.
Hopefully this will continue all summer long.

And no, i didn't have the winner :(

I was with you on Suns Out Guns Out. What were they thinking having him prompt a 1:10 pace?

[andtheyreoff]

I used to complain about the 5 horse stakes as Belmont.
Guess I should have been happy back then!

The race was originally 7 horses, which included Marilyn's Guy, one of the better horses of the winter at Aqueduct, G1 winners Jersey Town and Boys at Tosconova, and, of course, To Honor and Serve It was shaping up to be a great race, but unfortunately scratches ruined it. Not NYRA's fault.

They put on a great show anyway today- 94 horses over 10 races, nice prices throughout the program, and the bettors spoke with a handle of $11,680,144. Hopefully it will keep up throughout the spring and summer.

[Robert Fischer]

Hushion was there to throw haymakers with Bold Deed.

Looked like he might get away for an instant or two.

[Tom]

Originally, I was going to Harvard Business School.

[thaskalos]

Originally, I was going to Harvard Business School.
So was I...but something stood in my way.

They told me I had to finish high school first.

[Grits]

So was I...but something stood in my way.

They told me I had to finish high school first.

On Harvard, your parents would've been pouring their money down the drain. You would've ducked class and played poker and horses every afternoon.:)

[Tom]

Instead, I did just that....at CCFL!

[thaskalos]

On Harvard, your parents would've been pouring their money down the drain. You would've ducked class and played poker and horses every afternoon.:)
I can testify from personal experience that the race track can be a major obstacle to high academic learning...

I was reared to be an intellectual...but the race track proved to be too much for me to overcome.

[Grits]

I can testify from personal experience that the race track can be a major obstacle to high academic learning...

I was reared to be an intellectual...but the race track proved to be too much for me to overcome.

You're still an intellectual. :lol: Harvard wouldn't have improved upon this. Granted you may have a job that doesn't give you headaches and worries, but that's not a given.

Look at our President. (I'd rather be in hell with my back broke than have his job.) :faint:

[PhantomOnTour]

And now we know why Tom doesn't love Belmont :D

[Robert Goren]

I like Belmont except for the turf sprints. Most places card a couple of them a week, but it seems like Belmont has at least a couple a day. Prehaps somebody could tell me why? Are they really that popular with the bettors.

[lamboguy]

i have a love hate relationship with BELMONT. it is the major league of all horse racing worldwide. the place is as first class to horses like no other.

but i have suffered through many setbacks and tragedy's there. i am as confident as can be that this is all going to change for me this year starting in less than 2 weeks. there is nothing better than winning at BELMONT, and that is exactly what i plan to do.

[mannyberrios]

i have a love hate relationship with BELMONT. it is the major league of all horse racing worldwide. the place is as first class to horses like no other.

but i have suffered through many setbacks and tragedy's there. i am as confident as can be that this is all going to change for me this year starting in less than 2 weeks. there is nothing better than winning at BELMONT, and that is exactly what i plan to do.
Go get em, Lambo, good luck, and be careful as Belmont can be a little rough

[sovereign]

I like Belmont except for the turf sprints. Most places card a couple of them a week, but it seems like Belmont has at least a couple a day. Prehaps somebody could tell me why? Are they really that popular with the bettors.

They like to see how much money they could lose in under a minute.

[classhandicapper]

They like to see how much money they could lose in under a minute.

There's an easy way to fix that. You just have to turn the page. I have that mastered. I think I may have played 5-10 turf sprints in my life and they all involved Linda Rice.

[turninforhome10]

I can testify from personal experience that the race track can be a major obstacle to high academic learning...

I was reared to be an intellectual...but the race track proved to be too much for me to overcome.

College can be very hard when you have to handicap in order to pay for it. Every time I see a high paid doctor, I think to myself that could have been me if my brother would have not taken me to Prairie Meadows back in 1991. I spent more time figuring out how to parlay a laboratory degree into working in the race business.

Life has a certain flavor for those who have fought and risked all that the sheltered and protected can never experience.
John Stuart Mill

[the little guy]

People should play the races the are most comfortable with, and have the most success with, but this notion that turf sprints are some uncrackable nut is absolute nonsense. I struggled with them as well, but when I went to work at NYRA I realized I better try to figure them out, or else in addition to losing my money betting them, I would bring even further public embarrassment to myself. Now, I'm not saying I'm the world's foremost expert on turf sprints, but they are playable, and frequently offer realistic price plays. It's about keeping an open mind. We're horseplayers. We take abstract puzzles and try to piece them together. This whine that we can't put this particular puzzle together is BS. Relish the challenge.

[MadWorld]

I used to complain about the 5 horse stakes as Belmont.
Guess I should have been happy back then!

Everything used to be better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcbHpy61bTk

[setup]

Hard to understand why so many find turf sprints so difficult. The particular attraction of BEL for me is the TWO turf courses and the many races run over them. There's enough difference between the two courses and enough of a variety in the distances run that there are any number of profitable angle plays. The only way it would be any better, which would be about as good as it could ever get, is if they carded 5F,5.5F and 6.5F sprints, in addition to the 6f and 7F's. (But they can't given the configuration, from what I understand.) A lot of money to be made betting turf sprints.

[Robert Fischer]

Turf sprints are something I struggle with relative to most other races.

I think the impression (or "excuse") that I like to make is that too often the best horse is compromised at the start. The other excuse I make is that the races are so pace dependent.

Belmont is pretty fair. I think the same principles pretty much apply in the turf sprints as any other race. I just may pull the trigger a little less often as it isn't my comfort zone.

[tzipi]

People should play the races the are most comfortable with, and have the most success with, but this notion that turf sprints are some uncrackable nut is absolute nonsense. I struggled with them as well, but when I went to work at NYRA I realized I better try to figure them out, or else in addition to losing my money betting them, I would bring even further public embarrassment to myself. Now, I'm not saying I'm the world's foremost expert on turf sprints, but they are playable, and frequently offer realistic price plays. It's about keeping an open mind. We're horseplayers. We take abstract puzzles and try to piece them together. This whine that we can't put this particular puzzle together is BS. Relish the challenge.


Well said :ThmbUp:

I don't put a lot of money into them yet but it is fun trying to figure these races out. OK, I'm off to Belmont :)

[Robert Fischer]

wowww READYTODEFER sure ran better today without that IDIOT ortiz pummeling him when he made the lead. Cohen apparently didn't get the message that he should punish the horse instead of urging him home and won the race. Must be a horse for course.

Reminded a lot of STONECOLDSTEAMER yesterday. For some reason Dominguez didn't get the memo from Junior Alvarado that horses on the lead should be whipped into the rail , wrangled back and then whipped off their lead several jumps from the rail. Somehow Dominguez ignored those instructions and guided the horse to a WIN. Must have loved the course.

Nice to see some better rides to start this meet.

[setup]

Reminded a lot of STONECOLDSTEAMER yesterday. For some reason Dominguez didn't get the memo from Junior Alvarado that horses on the lead should be whipped into the rail , wrangled back and then whipped off their lead several jumps from the rail. Somehow Dominguez ignored those instructions and guided the horse to a WIN. Must have loved the course.



Watch NYRA races much? Dominguez, for all his strengths, is just about the worst I've ever seen (outside of really bad riders) at keeping his horses on righty lead through the lane. He blows a ton of races this way.

[Robert Fischer]

Watch NYRA races much? Dominguez, for all his strengths, is just about the worst I've ever seen (outside of really bad riders) at keeping his horses on righty lead through the lane. He blows a ton of races this way.

I've never had a problem with Dominguez in general.

In this specific case (Stonecoldsteamer) the rides were night and day.

[Tom]

Why bother with a 5.5 furlong turf sprint when I'm a mouse-click away from a 9 furlong real turf race? I think it is a crime that Belmont waste so many races on those beautiful turf courses, two of the best in the country. A few here and there, fine, but IMHO, turf sprints and state bred races have really diluted both Belmont and Toga.

[PhantomOnTour]

Rail placement is an important factor in turf sprints at Bel, esp when the rail is at 27ft for their 7f races on the Widener.

[classhandicapper]

People should play the races the are most comfortable with, and have the most success with, but this notion that turf sprints are some uncrackable nut is absolute nonsense. I struggled with them as well, but when I went to work at NYRA I realized I better try to figure them out, or else in addition to losing my money betting them, I would bring even further public embarrassment to myself. Now, I'm not saying I'm the world's foremost expert on turf sprints, but they are playable, and frequently offer realistic price plays. It's about keeping an open mind. We're horseplayers. We take abstract puzzles and try to piece them together. This whine that we can't put this particular puzzle together is BS. Relish the challenge.

I agree with what you are saying, but I find that the more things in a race that are difficult to value well, the less likely I will be able find any edge and win money on the race.

Those turf sprints races are full of things that are tough to put values on.

They are full of horses switching from dirt to turf, turf routes to turf sprints, 5F to 6F (which can be huge), long layoffs, plus all the other ordinary complexities of day to day racing.

It might not be so bad, but a lot of the things that are significant in turf routes (like pedigree, experience on turf etc...) are less meaningful in turf sprints. In fact, many dirt sprinters with no turf pedigree do quite well, but then again some are horrible.

I can identify potentially live long shots, find a few easy throw outs, narrow down the contenders, but I have no idea if a horse should be 3-1 or 5-1, 10-1 or 15-1 etc... because of all the factors that are more speculative in nature. When it's like that, I usually turn the page because I have no edge even if I can pick winners.

I think it would require a serious amount of dedication for me to find some consistently playable or bet against angles. It doesn't seem worth the trouble if I can turn the page and find a race I understand better.

[MightBeSosa]

Watch NYRA races much? Dominguez, for all his strengths, is just about the worst I've ever seen (outside of really bad riders) at keeping his horses on righty lead through the lane. He blows a ton of races this way.

good thing too, else the other jocks might starve.

ps, D was on an also ran yest, when he tried to grab the loose horse at the 1/4 pole , didnt hold on. Did anyone else catch that move?