an excuse for staying up late tonight, Black Caviar!

[senortout]

Australia C-Morphettville
Race 7 6 Furlongs Turf Purse $414,140 Stakes SPORTINGBET ROBERT SANGSTER
Win, Place, Show, Exacta, Quinella, Trifecta, Superfecta http://www.twinspires.com/resources/shared/images/programs/stopwatch.gif ("]Wager[/url]http://www.twinspires.com/resources/shared/images/programs/printer.gif Minutes to post: 99 Est. Post: 2:23 AM EDT 4/28/2012 View FREE PPs [url="https://www.twinspires.com/secure-bin//RepAccess/servlet/RepAccess?file=aupau_0427a.pdf) 1
pp 3
Black Caviar Nolen, L 125 lbs. ML: 0.40 2/5 Current:N/A Tr: Moody, P G 2
pp 5
Lone Rock Zahra, M 125 lbs. ML:12/1Current:N/A Tr: Smerdon, R W 3
pp 6
Power Princess Gatt, P 125 lbs. ML:30/1Current:N/A Tr: Miller, Simon 4
pp 9
Just Sybil Stojakovic, Ms L 125 lbs. ML:50/1Current:N/A Tr: Mueller, B C 5
pp 1
Sistine Angel Payne, Ms Michelle 125 lbs. ML:30/1Current:N/A Tr: Noblet, Andrew 6
pp 7
Valentine Miss Pegus, M 125 lbs. ML:20/1Current:N/A Tr: Kavanagh, M A 7
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All Friared Up Arnold, S W 125 lbs. ML:50/1Current:N/A Tr: Bates, S R 8
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Shekinaar Potter, J 125 lbs. ML:50/1Current:N/A Tr: Jolly, D R 9
pp 10
Spurcific Boss, G 125 lbs. ML:50/1Current:N/A Tr: Griffiths, R D 10
pp 4
Tabulated Rose, Nathan 125 lbs. ML:50/1Current:N/A Tr: O'connor, Jon

[DaylightDies]

Yes!

Plus the late Hollywood card makes it an all night betting extravaganza!

[NJ Stinks]

Looks like $2 on #2 thru #10 might be in order.

(TVG has #1 Black Caviar at 1-9 withthe rest at 99-1. They are at the gate.)

[duncan04]

Simply amazing!!! 20 for 20. Makes it look so easy!!

[Buchan]

Simply amazing!!! 20 for 20. Makes it look so easy!!

She is a fantastic horse, but that was against substandard horses, at a substandard venue.
The trainer is picking his marks carefully.

[duncan04]

She is a fantastic horse, but that was against substandard horses, at a substandard venue.
The trainer is picking his marks carefully.

Nonetheless still being undefeated is still impressive. So many things could go wrong.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

By Black Caviar's standards that was a poor performance today even when winning by 4.6L

Either she was very underdone as the trainer wants her to peak in June in the UK or she has lost it and no longer wants to be a racehorse. She has another start in Adelaide in 2 weeks which should indicate if she was underdone today or has lost it

[precisionk]

She hasn't proved herself against anything worthwhile in those wins. When she goes over to Royal Ascot, will be a testament if she is the real deal or not.

[cj]

VgntUqL-ZHw

[Tom]

She is a fantastic horse, but that was against substandard horses, at a substandard venue.
The trainer is picking his marks carefully.

Isn't the object of a trainer?
This is a business.

[wisconsin]

She is a fantastic horse, but that was against substandard horses, at a substandard venue.
The trainer is picking his marks carefully.


People say stuff like this all of the time. If it were so easy, it would happen far more often than it does.

[cj]

People say stuff like this all of the time. If it were so easy, it would happen far more often than it does.

Don't you find it odd it there have been long streaks like 5 or 6 times in the last few years?

[Buchan]

Isn't the object of a trainer?
This is a business.

Yes, of course.
I am not knocking in any way, just stating fact.
My personal opinion is that she is the best horse I have ever seen and ever will.

And she is very good for the sport over here.
Morphettville would normally have 2.5 people attending their meetings. Yesterday there was 30000 there, just to see her.
That is the affect she is having where ever she goes.
And to the person that says she has not beaten anything,.......dream on.
You can only beat what is there to beat, and she does it......every time.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

precisionk

You have it wrong with Black Caviar. Black Caviar is the best horse I have seen. Her first 19 wins were full of quality. Some of the fields she beat were weak but she always posted quality performances in doing so. She was not like Zenyatta who would post low Beyers. Black Caviar would run the equivalent of big Beyers and do it almost every race (only exception being a very slow pace like the Caulfield 1400m race recently where a fast time was impossible). Along the way she met and beat Hay List several times and Hay List is absolute top notch and a better horse than some of the Aussie horses to win at Royal Ascot in recent years

However you cannot live on past glories and you are only as good as your last race. BC's run yesterday was well down on her past form. On her peak form she would have blitzed that field by about 9 lengths in second gear. But she has won by about half that margin. She has run several lengths below all her recent runs

If she does run in the Goodwood Stakes in 2 weeks time most likely she will face another walkover field where she can be well below her best and still win easily. But there is one horse that might cause her problems and that horse is Barakey. Barakey is a good horse who is unbeaten but he is no star. He is a horse up to winning a G1 one day but no better than that. I would never have thought that he could beat Black Caviar as she was lengths better than him. But then she does that race yesterday where she has lost a few lengths. If she runs like that again in the Goodwood then Barakey will be a chance to beat her

Barakey is racing today in a Listed stakes race in the bush where he will be 1-10 fave. If he wins that race the Goodwood Stakes in 2 weeks has to be the most likely next race for him

[Buchan]

Barakey is a good horse, but it's impossible to tell how good, until he leaves the backblocks of Perth.
He is meeting and beating rubbish, and today is more of the same, listed race or not
But anyway, the only way he will ever beat Black Caviar is if she is scratched and doesn't run!, breaks a leg, or has simply lost 10 lengths somewhere.

[classhandicapper]

Don't you find it odd it there have been long streaks like 5 or 6 times in the last few years?

I don't think there's any question that a few cheap horses were managed to keep their win streak alive, but I think in the case of Zenyatta and Black Caviar they were just great mares managed with specific long term goals in mind while running in Grade 1 races most of the time.

If someone thinks they are better than BC, they know where to find her.

I'm basically clueless about Australian racing. So I have no idea if she lost a step or if they went out of their way to find a very easy spot to get the 20th win. But their goal has been to ship for a series of really tough races in a few months. So I'm sure wanting to keep her fresh is part of the plan.

[cj]

I don't think there's any question that a few cheap horses were managed to keep their win streak alive, but I think in the case of Zenyatta and Black Caviar they were just great mares managed with specific long term goals in mind while running in Grade 1 races most of the time.

If someone thinks they are better than BC, they know where to find her.

I'm basically clueless about Australian racing. So I have no idea if she lost a step or if they went out of their way to find a very easy spot to get the 20th win. But their goal has been to ship for a series of really tough races in a few months. So I'm sure wanting to keep her fresh is part of the plan.

I don't want to get into the whole Zenyatta thing. She obviously was a great mare. Still, I don't see how anyone could deny that the streak became a huge factor in her schedule.

[wisconsin]

Don't you find it odd it there have been long streaks like 5 or 6 times in the last few years?


Say what you will about some of the streaks we have seen, weak horses, weak competition, and so on and so forth. If it were so easy, we would see more wouldn't we?

The fact remains that these streaks are rare. 5 or 6 streaks in the past few years from the thousands upon thousands of horses that have run in the past few years.

[classhandicapper]

I don't want to get into the whole Zenyatta thing. She obviously was a great mare. Still, I don't see how anyone could deny that the streak became a huge factor in her schedule.

I really don't think that was the case.

I think her entire schedule over the last two years was based on getting her to peak for the Breeder's Cup Classic races because they wanted to win the big one and get HOTY. That's the only reason she even ran at 6. If she got HOTY at 5, IMO she would have been retired.

Even her workout patterns were crystal clear in that regard. They never had her cranked up and near 100% for either of her last 2 seasons except on both BC days.

They avoided shipping and racing against Grade 1 males in CA early in the year because she would have to be closer to 100% to beat them and they didn't want to wear her down. You can't win HOTY running at 90% and losing. They just wanted to take on whatever fillies chose to run against her in CA because she could handle any fillies/mares without cranking her up 100% (including Blind Luck etc..)

Essentially they were doing the opposite of what the connections of Rachel Alexandra and Havre de Grace chose to do. Those guys shipped and took on Grade 1 older males in easier spots than the Classic, but built more impressive campaigns doing so.

But I think you can't win either way.

If you don't take on the best male horses in the country you get criticized for avoiding top competition and if you do you risk getting to the Classic sub par like HDG or totally burnt out like RA.

[Figaro]

bump

Betting Australia these days so think I'll stay up to watch Black Caviar tonight. I'm jumping on the bandwagon to see what this horse is all about during a live race. ;)

Australia 7C

[duncan04]

Black Caviar looks amazing warming up. Another huge crowd

[duncan04]

21 for 21. Makes it look so easy. Jockey Luke Nolan never moved a muscle. Next up for Black Caviar is the Golden Jubilee Stakes at Royal Ascot, June 23rd.

[Some_One]

It looked easy since she was facing nothing, 2nd choice 160-1 in N.A. pools...hope the aussie's enjoy today, win streak ends at Ascot.

[classhandicapper]

It looked easy since she was facing nothing, 2nd choice 160-1 in N.A. pools...hope the aussie's enjoy today, win streak ends at Ascot.

Who is regarded as the best horse she has beaten to date?

Isn't that Hay List?

She's been dominating him. Didn't Hay List just win a Group 1 at Newmarket and move ahead of Rocket Man (or close) on the handicap list.

I don't have the knowledge to evaluate her properly, but if Hay List has more or less proven he's one of the best in the world, it's hard to imagine that Black Caviar isn't an all time great.

[Grits]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/britain-bound-black-caviar-improves-to-21-0-as-she-prepares-for-1st-overseas-trip/2012/05/12/gIQA50YoJU_story.html


Last week, Moody said he fully expected Black Caviar to win at Ascot, but also warned he would not run Black Caviar if she was not 100 percent fit after her first overseas journey.

One English media report suggested that Black Caviar had beaten no major international horses in Australia and had to win at Ascot to prove herself.

“You have never seen anything like this horse before,” Moody said in reply. “It would be an absolute tragedy if she went there and got beaten by your B-grade sprinters for half the prize money and (traveling) three-quarters of the way around the world.”

It continues to be suggested that she's better than the topped ranked, Frankel. Many saying ... she'd smoke him.

Why do they need to go head to head to prove anything? :faint:

[senortout]

However, its only because owners, and trainers of above average horses don't want to ruin their charges by butting heads with this great champion. She's the deal, I've seen all her races on video, many times over. I had yet to notice a concern on the part of her Jockey Nolen. She only runs a fraction of a part of her races in earnest. This is the part as she is given her head, straightening from the turn, to the finish. Her extremely high rate of cruising speed places her well in ANY Field of crack sprinters. And she has to be very intelligent to shut it down late as she does. She is the deal folks.

ps could I add..........she may have been worth the nickel on the dollar she paid last night. I took it. Anyone know what you would have had you bet all her races .....probably not that much but I tried to find that today and could use some help with that.

[classhandicapper]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/britain-bound-black-caviar-improves-to-21-0-as-she-prepares-for-1st-overseas-trip/2012/05/12/gIQA50YoJU_story.html



It continues to be suggested that she's better than the topped ranked, Frankel. Many saying ... she'd smoke him.

Why do they need to go head to head to prove anything? :faint:


I agree with Moody. Anyone that thinks they are better than Black Caviar could have shipped to Australia and run for more money there to take her on and prove it. Why should she ship when there were already Group 1 races and big purses at home where she's a national treasure. The public should be thankful she's going to ship at all.

Frankel is a miler.

She is a sprinter.

They don't even belong in the same race, but if she wins at Ascot the nitwits will just move the chain for her to prove herself and demand she run a mile next.

This is the same kind of stuff we've seen in the past. To me, by dominating Hay List and then him winning a Group 1 in Europe, we pretty much already know she's been a great mare. It would be a shame if she's not still 100% because if she loses it will give the nitwits ammunition to attack her.

[Buchan]

I agree with Moody. Anyone that thinks they are better than Black Caviar could have shipped to Australia and run for more money there to take her on and prove it. Why should she ship when there were already Group 1 races and big purses at home where she's a national treasure. The public should be thankful she's going to ship at all.

Frankel is a miler.

She is a sprinter.

They don't even belong in the same race, but if she wins at Ascot the nitwits will just move the chain for her to prove herself and demand she run a mile next.

This is the same kind of stuff we've seen in the past. To me, by dominating Hay List and then him winning a Group 1 in Europe, we pretty much already know she's been a great mare. It would be a shame if she's not still 100% because if she loses it will give the nitwits ammunition to attack her.

Hat List has not won at Newmarket in Europe, he has never left Australia.
He won what is called the "Newmarket Hcp" at Flemington in Melbourne Australia, and it's a G1
But Hay List is a VERY good horse, and if it did not keep bumping into Black Caviar, it would have a record as good as her nearly.

Anyway, If she were mine she wouldn't be going to Ascot.
Why bother when she can win much more by staying at home?

And to 'Some_One', can I have some of what you are smoking?
If she goes to Ascot, and she is on song, then it will just be the same old story....Black Caviar winning again.
Anybody that thinks otherwise, needs to go see an optometrist :)
Just open your mind and enjoy the best sprinter you or anybody else has ever seen.

[cj]

Australian sprinters have done well at Ascot, and none were nearly as good as Black Caviar.

[classhandicapper]

Hat List has not won at Newmarket in Europe, he has never left Australia.
He won what is called the "Newmarket Hcp" at Flemington in Melbourne Australia, and it's a G1
But Hay List is a VERY good horse, and if it did not keep bumping into Black Caviar, it would have a record as good as her nearly.


Thanks for the clarification. :blush:

Shows you how closely I follow the racing overseas.

I guess I'll reserve some judgement before making very strong comments. But either way, Hay List is ranked very highly internationally. I find it hard to believe the international rankings could be that far off. If she's killing him, it's not like she's totally unproven because a few of her races were soft.