Formulator 4.0 ..

[Suff]

From the DRF Monthly e-mail news letter


. Usually December is the slowest month of the year here but as we end 2003 I can tell you that this has been among the busiest months at DRF.com. Why? Formulator 4.0, that's why.

With any luck, we'll launch this new piece of software in approximately 8-10 weeks, though if I've learned anything since working in the internet world it's that these sort of self-imposed technology-driven deadlines are tough to meet (remember when I used to say Formulator 4.0 was coming before the end of 2003?). F4, though, this one is worth the wait. We're in beta testing mode right now, working out the kinks and tweaking the features and navigation, bringing this huge advance in the software's capabilities to fruition.

I'd like to be extremely specific about the details of the new features, but I'm going to wait until at least next month for that. I will tell you this much:

-One of our out-of-house beta testers describes F4 as the first steps of online PPs being "a truly interactive DRF."

-Imagine being able to ask the past performances any question you'd like to ask them about a trainer, or a chart, and having the past performances respond to your questions with the answers you've been looking for.

-Finally, imagine if those answers are not just a matter of some stats popping up on the screen, but also access to the PPs themselves that back up the statistical data-- those too are suddenly a click of the mouse away--and you're starting to get the picture.

Alright, alright, I've said too much already. This is major stuff, a marriage between the narrative offered by our PPs and statistical information catered to your preferences. The financial investment on DRF's part is significant, and though there will be a trial period for you all to get used to the new features, it will be followed by the introduction of additional subscription costs for Formulator 4 users, though our prices will stay the same as they currently are for Formulator 3 and PDF files. When you see the edge this new piece of software will give you as a player, I think many of you will be happy to pay for it.

Happy Holidays,

[JimG]

Originally posted by Suff
From the DRF Monthly e-mail news letter


The financial investment on DRF's part is significant, and though there will be a trial period for you all to get used to the new features, it will be followed by the introduction of additional subscription costs for Formulator 4 users, though our prices will stay the same as they currently are for Formulator 3 and PDF files. When you see the edge this new piece of software will give you as a player, I think many of you will be happy to pay for it.



What a crock! Raising the price of online past performances in this day and time is akin to increasing the takeout rate.

[Handle]

Bah Humbug. That's a lot of "Super" this and "edge" that for stuff that most of the software I know of, including EquiSim, has been able to do for at least a year, if not a _lot_ longer. Bring up PPS related to something you're interested in with the click of a mouse - ES did that 2 years ago. Ask ANY question about a trainer? Any at all. Its not the software that Bahhhgs me, its just the marketing goo.

[Tom]

I'm still waiting for the pace figures they were working on, what a year and a half ago?
This is nothing but a price increase. Not long after F4 hits, you will probably see F3 and the cheaper files disappear.
Formulaotr, when it was forst introduced was noting but a cheap imitator of ITS's version of PPs...and to this day, it is not as good or as versitlal as ITS.
And with all the various erros in the DRF this past few months that have been pointed out on this forum, why would anyone even suspect DRF has the talent/desire/capabiltiy to offer a complex product? Just that many more opportunities for failures to occurr. And at a higher price, too!
I just can't get exited over anything DRF ever has to offer.
:eek:

[cj]

I've been testing the new Formulator, and I have to say, its quite good. I've ripped DRF in the past as you can see if you look on this site, so I'm not cheerleading the cause. In this case I think many of you will be pleasantly surprised.

[LOU M.]

I didn't read anything that mentioned a price increase.Just that they would be charging the same amount as previously.

[lousycapperII]

Does DRF continue to chum the waters for more suckers? The smart handicappers left them long ago. It's a shame or should that be "a sham". I would like to see them come forward with a single comma delimited file format for a reasonable price. $125.00 a month for all files, and I mean ALL files, based on a yearly prepaid subscription. Then I might give them a try again. *JMTCW*

HAVE A HAPPY AND PROPEROUS NEW YEAR, YA'LL!

-LCII

[LOU M.]

They offer unlimited downloads for $795 per year and the info is all exportable.All info sources have their pros and cons IMHO.

[Tom]

$99 a month right now. Lifetime PPs of all horses.
Lots of data, most of it accurate <G>

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by LOU M.
They offer unlimited downloads for $795 per year and the info is all exportable.All info sources have their pros and cons IMHO.

NOT TRUE...when you read the fine print you are actually getting about 1/3 of the races run that are playable. Look at the "*" . It tells you the average number of cards per day that you are actually getting. I haven't checked recently but it's around 6 cards per day.

-LCII

[lousycapperII]

Annual Plan
Get the best value for money with long-term subscriptions to DRF Online. DRF's annual plans are ideal for hard core horseplayers, offering significant volume discounts, starting as low as $0.36 per card.*

120 Racecards $189.95 --- 240 Racecards $299.95 ---
720 Racecards $549.95 -- Unlimited Racecards $799.95

As a subscriber, you select the number of racecards you need on the days you choose to play and you have unlimited access to news and charts throughout the term of your subscription. Accessing the information is simple. Once you are a registered subscriber, go directly to DRF.com's `Download Data' section to select your racecards (available two days in advance of the races), the `Results' section to access full charts, and the `News' section to catch up on the latest and greatest coverage.

DRF Past Performances are available in two formats -- PDF and Formulator (comma delimited). Formulator is a must-have for any serious handicapper and can be downloaded FREE of charge. Formulator allows you to customize DRF Past Performances and manipulate the data, with an update feature delivering official betting numbers and morning line odds.

* price based on an average of six cards per day.

THIS WORKS OUT TO ABOUT 20,000 RACES...SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN TWICE THE YEARLY FEE TO GET ALL THE RACES! NICE TRY BUT STILL NO CIGAR!

-LCII

[Pace Cap'n]

Originally posted by lousycapperII
Annual Plan
Get the best value for money with long-term subscriptions to DRF Online. DRF's annual plans are ideal for hard core horseplayers, offering significant volume discounts, starting as low as $0.36 per card.*

120 Racecards $189.95 --- 240 Racecards $299.95 ---
720 Racecards $549.95 -- Unlimited Racecards $799.95

As a subscriber, you select the number of racecards you need...

* price based on an average of six cards per day.

THIS WORKS OUT TO ABOUT 20,000 RACES...SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN TWICE THE YEARLY FEE TO GET ALL THE RACES! NICE TRY BUT STILL NO CIGAR!

-LCII

Not the way I read it at all.

The way I see it, the more cards that are downloaded, the lower the average cost. No limit stated (unlimited) on the number of cards that can be downloaded.

[Tom]

I think that the 6 cards per day averge is just DRF's inabilit yto handle math and english. Unlimited means all cards every day, or ebven the same card several times (for those elusive winners):rolleyes:

[VetScratch]

Originally posted by LOU M.
They offer unlimited downloads for $795 per year and the info is all exportable.All info sources have their pros and cons IMHO. IMHO, Formulator 3.1 was really one of the best-crafted handicapping products... the PDF manual and Help system represent a fine professional support effort.

The rub is that Formulator acts as a filter. The DRF2 downloads are not documented and a secret password is required to un-zip them. Because the export function releases only a subset of the downloaded data, this effectively inhibits the creation of dozens of other handicapping programs that might become available at shareware costs... or even as freeware.

Never have understood why DRF would not want hundreds of free-lance programmers developing stuff that would only make their downloads more attractive to more users.

BRIS has fared very well because dozens of programs outside the BRIS in-house stable have been developed to support BRIS files. You would think DRF would want the same free leverage adding value to their downloads.

I have an affinity for DRF because my mom says it was the only publication in the house when I was a baby. One morning, she claims my dad actually tried to diaper me with a DRF while she was helping out on the backside. :)

[TonyK@HSH]

Originally posted by lousycapperII
Annual Plan
Get the best value for money with long-term subscriptions to DRF Online. DRF's annual plans are ideal for hard core horseplayers, offering significant volume discounts, starting as low as $0.36 per card.*

120 Racecards $189.95 --- 240 Racecards $299.95 ---
720 Racecards $549.95 -- Unlimited Racecards $799.95

As a subscriber, you select the number of racecards you need on the days you choose to play and you have unlimited access to news and charts throughout the term of your subscription. Accessing the information is simple. Once you are a registered subscriber, go directly to DRF.com's `Download Data' section to select your racecards (available two days in advance of the races), the `Results' section to access full charts, and the `News' section to catch up on the latest and greatest coverage.

DRF Past Performances are available in two formats -- PDF and Formulator (comma delimited). Formulator is a must-have for any serious handicapper and can be downloaded FREE of charge. Formulator allows you to customize DRF Past Performances and manipulate the data, with an update feature delivering official betting numbers and morning line odds.

* price based on an average of six cards per day.

THIS WORKS OUT TO ABOUT 20,000 RACES...SO YOU WOULD HAVE TO PAY MORE THAN TWICE THE YEARLY FEE TO GET ALL THE RACES! NICE TRY BUT STILL NO CIGAR!


-LCII

The unlimited plan is truly unlimited...no restrictions that I've ever run into.

Tony

[takeout]

Slicker than grease and clear as mud.

WHY should this much energy have to be put into understanding ANYONE'S pricing?

When you guys get this all straightened out I've got an insurance policy over here that I would like someone to take a look at. :D

[VetScratch]

What part of "unlimited" is limiting our understanding? :)

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by takeout
Slicker than grease and clear as mud.

WHY should this much energy have to be put into understanding ANYONE'S pricing?

When you guys get this all straightened out I've got an insurance policy over here that I would like someone to take a look at. :D

YOU HAVE IT RIGHT..."UNLIMITED" AND "IS" HAVE NEW MEANINGS. THAT LIL' OL' ASTERISK IS THE "BUG" IN THE DRF SOUP. NO SALE!!!

-LCII

[VetScratch]

Maybe this is a case of LousyReading. :)

DRF advertised prices as low as: $0.36 per card.*

But the footnote,

"* price based on an average of six cards per day"

is hardly the same as

"* price based on a limit of six cards per day"

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by VetScratch
Maybe this is a case of LousyReading. :)

DRF advertised prices as low as: $0.36 per card.*

But the footnote,

"* price based on an average of six cards per day"

is hardly the same as

"* price based on a limit of six cards per day"

"LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR...I'M NOT A CROOK"

$799.95 / 0.36 = 2222 cards * an average of 8.5 races per card = 18887 races.

This is about 1/3 of ALL the races run. Hence we/you are being bamboozled by the DRF, [clever marketing or what you may call it], as usual. I'm not buying it. How about it DRF? Dig your way out of this one!

-LCII

[Pace Cap'n]

What part of "Unlimited" are you not comprehending?

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by Pace Cap'n
What part of "Unlimited" are you not comprehending?

"UNLIMITED" has two meanings. The first being the dictionary version. You can look it up for yourself. The second version is DRF's...meaning "UNLIMITED" as to the number of cards you can down load on a daily basis but restricted to an average of 6 cards per day. $799.95 / 0.36 = 2222 cards * 8.5 races per card = 18887. To me "UNLIMITED" means without restriction. Again, there are more than 18,000 races run in a year's time, hence DRF is playing games with us. Get it? Got it? Good? HAPPY NEW YEAR!
LET'S PUT THIS TURKEY TO BED...HMMMMM?

-LLII

[Buddha]

Originally posted by lousycapperII
"UNLIMITED" has two meanings. The first being the dictionary version. You can look it up for yourself. The second version is DRF's...meaning "UNLIMITED" as to the number of cards you can down load on a daily basis but restricted to an average of 6 cards per day. $799.95 / 0.36 = 2222 cards * 8.5 races per card = 18887. To me "UNLIMITED" means without restriction. Again, there are more than 18,000 races run in a year's time, hence DRF is playing games with us. Get it? Got it? Good? HAPPY NEW YEAR!
LET'S PUT THIS TURKEY TO BED...HMMMMM?

-LLII

I have to come into this thread. You obviously don't know the meaning of unlimited as others have said. I am using and unlimited account, and have downloaded all cards all days, and have no probs. In the account with card remaining it says UNLIMITED, not 2000, not 1,000,000,000,000, but UNLIMITED. There little asterisk is just to give people an idea of the cost with the unlimited, not restricted to only that many cards.

[Tom]

If you have this much trouble comprehending the suscription price, maybe the data in question would be beyond your scope of understanding?

BTW...what track(s) do you play:D

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by Buddha
I have to come into this thread. You obviously don't know the meaning of unlimited as others have said. I am using and unlimited account, and have downloaded all cards all days, and have no probs. In the account with card remaining it says UNLIMITED, not 2000, not 1,000,000,000,000, but UNLIMITED. There little asterisk is just to give people an idea of the cost with the unlimited, not restricted to only that many cards.

Have you downloaded every card, every day, for an entire year? That would be around 50,000 races starting January 1st and ending December 31st. If you have, then I owe DRF and the folks on this forum my apology and I am DEAD WRONG! If not, then re-check my computations to see if I missed something.

-LCII

[lousycapperII]

BTW...what track(s) do you play:D [/B][/QUOTE]

I favor no particular circuit.

-LCII

[Buddha]

I download all but about 3 tracks every day as I don't even think about playing those other ones. So far there has been no problems.

[JimG]

Unlike Die Hard and Rocky, this sequel seems to be as good as the original.

Welcome Back Lousycapper II:rolleyes:

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by JimG
Unlike Die Hard and Rocky, this sequel seems to be as good as the original.

Welcome Back Lousycapper II:rolleyes:

Thank you...HAPPY NEW YEAR!

-LCII

[Tom]

Originally posted by lousycapperII
Have you downloaded every card, every day, for an entire year? That would be around 50,000 races starting January 1st and ending December 31st. If you have, then I owe DRF and the folks on this forum my apology and I am DEAD WRONG! If not, then re-check my computations to see if I missed something.

-LCII

Yes.

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by Tom
Yes.

Thank you. THEN I AM DEAD WRONG AND AN APOLOGY IS IN ORDER... I HEREBY APOLOGISE TO DRF AND THE FOLKS ON THIS FORUM FOR THE TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT. HEH, HEH!

[cj]

What part of the data is hidden, or not released, when files are exported? I do a bit of programming with the files, and have found everything I could ever want with one small exception, the Tomlinson distance rating. Am I missing something?

[Steve 'StatMan']

Having Broadband Internet service, I've download every Formulator file for 2003. If I ever want to take on a new circuit, or do some statistical studies, I've already got a year's worth of PPS that I can run through the export process.

I've also downloaded all the free Equibase results files for every track in 2003, so I can at least do the manual checking of results.

I sure wish comma-delimited results files could be available on a reasonable subscription plan. Not really sure what deals, if any, are out there.

[BillW]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW

I sure wish comma-delimited results files could be available on a reasonable subscription plan. Not really sure what deals, if any, are out there.

Steve,

I think Game Theory's chart importer will output comma delimited files for import into databases etc. Check with him, as I may be wrong.

Bill

[lousycapperII]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW

I've also downloaded all the free Equibase results files for every track in 2003, so I can at least do the manual checking of results.

I sure wish comma-delimited results files could be available on a reasonable subscription plan. Not really sure what deals, if any, are out there. [/B]

If you've saved the EB results files as "text" you should be able to convert them to comma delimited files using a line editor. If you use Netscape 7.01 and up as your browser and save as "text" you won't have to parse out HTML code.

-LCII

[VetScratch]

CJ,

As I recall, there are nine or ten files inside the DRF2 file. Just add .zip to any DRF2 download-file-name and you can see the directory of file contents with any of several utilities (e.g., PowerDesk). However, you can't unscramble and extract without a password (not given).

In addition to Tomlinson distance ratings, maybe I missed something, but are the Jockey Form and Trainer-Jockey Form figs exported? I only saw a documented export layout for the Trainer Form stuff. The other obvious stuff like consensus picks and the image of the race course are not important.

I really think Formulator is a very professional product, but I don't like the concept of exports when the downloaded data is sitting right there. The first thing I did is look at the raw DRF2 file content, saw Phil Katz's signature, and realized it was a zip file. If there wasn't a password (for what reason?), maybe I would assume everything that is possibly useful gets exported.

Probably the undocumented fields that find their way into other vendors' downloads have made me too mistrustful... but I see no need for programs like Formulator to act as filters.

I am adamantly opposed to the use of password crackers (and assume the passwords themselves would vary by encryption based on the track and date for each DRF2 file), so I never pursued using Formulator data for my own programs.

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by BillW
Steve,

I think Game Theory's chart importer will output comma delimited files for import into databases etc. Check with him, as I may be wrong.

Bill


Yeah, that's what it does all right. Equibase HTML charts to comma delimited files for import elsewhere is the main purpose, although it is flexible enough to output the chart data in pretty much any format you desire.

Click on the "website" button below this post for the skinny...

[Steve 'StatMan']

Thank you all for the information, plus a BIG THANK YOU to GameTheory for creating and sharing his chart handler with everyone! I just downloaded it, and have been reading some of the information. I'll be taking a further look at it soon, esp. with HAW closing soon. I'm sure glad I didn't have to reinvent the UltraWheel2000 - esp. since this I had no idea how to do that yet! :D

[Marc At DRF]

"This is nothing but a price increase. Not long after F4 hits, you will probably see F3 and the cheaper files disappear."

"What a crock! Raising the price of online past performances in this day and time is akin to increasing the takeout rate."

Hi guys,

Just want to make it clear we're NOT raising the price of PDF files or Formulator 3 (or lower) files. Also, besides being unfair, it would be really stupid for us to eliminate access to those files. Formulator 4 is offering some added features, above and beyond the PPs, that cost us a pretty penny to develop and we're not giving these features away.

I just demo'ed Equisim and it was hard for me to tell if it offers quite what we'll be offering. Both have a database query functionality (they are definitely offering some stuff we're not), but we're tying ours back into the PPs in what we think is a pretty unique fashion. I've been using it for the last few weeks and it's allowing me to get inside the numbers in ways I never was able to before, but perhaps you all are way past that already.

I'm not really ready to talk publicly about the features, but please contact me privately if you're interested.

BTW, with any luck we'll take F4 live in about 6 weeks, and we'll start it out with a trial period of 6 weeks in which we won't charge any extra for the F4 features-- they'll be the same price as our other online PPs. So for those of you who use our stuff, you'll be able to test it for yourself at no additional charges.

[Niko]

I like some of the things you're doing at DRF and have picked up a couple copies for the first time in years. Used to love ?Racing Times?
Are you ever going to develop or offer pace ratings? It's the main thing keeping me away as it's become integral to my handicapping.

[Tom]

Sounds fair.

[LOU M.]

What is Equisim offering that you are not?

[Handle]

Marc,

It will be interesting to see what F4 does to tie the query functionality back into the PPs. EquiSim's Profiler is all about doing that, IMO, though I would imagine somewhat differently than F4.

Yes, EquiSim has the query capability that allows one to find out how well some trainer (or jockey, sire, owner...) does with XYZ factor. What the Profiler does, however, is a bit different.

The Profiler starts with EquiSim's way of looking at the race -- at each contestant. This "way of looking" can be customized to an extent, but it comes directly from how the program sees the PPs (the "tie back" to the PPs). When all is said and done the software determines a number of abilities for each horse. These "abilities" include cross references with the connections (trainers, jockeys, owners) in version four.

With abilities in hand, the Profiler uses database technology to determine how predictive each individual ability is. The Profiler is set up to be able to pull stats only from races similar to the one being handicapped (though this too is flexible since the amount of filtering can be customized). For example, how well did the horse that EquiSim said had the Best E1 do in races like this when the track was off?

The stats for each ability are useful. On top of those, ES takes all the stats and from them and generates "Profiler Values" that cover the horse's abilities, the trainer, jockey, etc.. Each horse receives a ranking of their Profiler Values. EquiSim has the built in ability to do further database analysis to determine how predictive each rank is. At AQU, over all races from 1/1/2003 to present, the Top Profiler Value had 1106 starters, won 31.10% of the time, for a -5.42% ROI. So I'd say its a pretty predictive number - at least at AQU (and that points to the advantage of being able to determine how well the thing works from within the software - you can find strong, and weak, spots).

Best,
-Nathan

[Marc At DRF]

" lAre you ever going to develop or offer pace ratings? It's the main thing keeping me away as it's become integral to my handicapping."

Here's the deal-- we refuse to do the mechanical pace figues you see on some of our competitors products. Mechanical figs, the braintrust here feels, we just don't believe in them. Wind and other factors can complete mess with the results, and we're not doing it. So we need some hand-massaged, Beyer style pace figs for all tracks. Not in favor of any human intervention? Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. So then the question becomes finding someone to produce pace figures that DRF feels comfortable either incorporating into its PPs or selling as part of a premium package online. So far, we haven't been able to find anyone out-of-house to work with in this regard, but we ARE openminded about this, if you know anyone who produces commercial pace figs in the parameters I've just explained. As for in-house, there's been a little bit of talk about Beyer developing them but it would require additional staffing, etc, and it just hasn't come together. Either way, I certainly agree the addition of reliable pace figures would be helpful to extend DRF's product.


"What is Equisim offering that you are not"

Speaking in terms of their database query functions, it looked like they might be offering a more extensive list of categories, but I'm not sure yet, at least partially because we're still submitting and refining categories. One of our beta testers wants 5th off layoff stats, and I really see no reason to not just provide it for those of you who think there's money to be made on 5th off of layoff stats.


"It will be interesting to see what F4 does to tie the query functionality back into the PPs. EquiSim's Profiler is all about doing that, IMO, though I would imagine somewhat differently than F4."


Thanks for the lowdown on Equisim. Helpful. Definitely different than what we are offering-- let's just say Formulator 4 is more of a research tool geared towards accessing charts and PPs while Equisim seems more geared towards predicative functions. It may get into some core theories on the ability to convert data in this fashion...

[Niko]

I don't know enough about figure making as I rely on other services to do that for me. Even simple pace figs like those by ITS and Bris help me. They're not perfect but good enough. I just ingnore the off track ratings.

Not knocking your decision as many people don't believe in or use pace ratings and you don't need them to be succesful.
But they help me.

I do like what you're doing as I'm sure many others do and I'm always glad to see someone producing a product with the horseplayer in mind. I use two data sources now for cross referencing and I could see DRF taking up one of those spots.

[Tom]

You want pace figs?
Talk to cjmolkowski.
We affectionatley refer to his numbers as "CJ's";)

[Cratos]

Formulator is a data manager and not good at doing that. If DRF wants to be creative and forward thinking, they should create a predictive software package with a “what if” function. Please no more Beyer Speed Figures.

Also the DRF should get rid of the beaten lengths in the superscripts at the points of call and the finish. They should replace the beaten lengths with time. For example a horse running 4th 4 lengths behind should be 4th at .68 seconds behind and this would be consistent with the DRF decimal time format.