More TSA crap

[JustRalph]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120418/OPINION03/204180345/1409/METRO/Seniors-get-TSA-runaround-lose-300

Now they are just plain robbing old people

[Tom]

Hey, perverts need to have jobs, to.
TSA is tailor made for perverts and other assorted mental defectives.

[highnote]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120418/OPINION03/204180345/1409/METRO/Seniors-get-TSA-runaround-lose-300

Now they are just plain robbing old people


What's the big deal? It's for the good of the country. You never know, a 95 year old man might want to blow himself up and take a plane full of people with him. And what about the missing $300, you might ask. Well, that's just the part of the cost we all must bear to make sure TSA agents can maintain a decent standard of living. Do you know how much it costs to live in San Diego these days?

[boxcar]

Don't forget: This, apparently, is what most of the American People wanted, i.e. more intrusive government in their lives. So, now no one has a right to complain. The time to complain has passed. Traveling Americans should have stood up to TSA from the git go when the new rules went into effect. This is what happens when we think we can gently hand-feed and tame the power-hungry monster -- the one we call the State.

Boxcar

[Tom]

If passengers had been carrying guns, 9/11 would never have happened.
Hand out free guns with every boarding pass.

[Shemp Howard]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120418/OPINION03/204180345/1409/METRO/Seniors-get-TSA-runaround-lose-300

Now they are just plain robbing old people


But we feel so safe! Thank you, benevolent masters. My taxes will be on time again this year.

[fast4522]

If passengers had been carrying guns, 9/11 would never have happened.
Hand out free guns with every boarding pass.

Somehow it does not quite seem like the right answer, from your posts Tom it is apparent you support others gun rights but in your heart you know it is not for you. Which seems about right, I really feel everyone knows if it is a bad fit or a acceptable fit. Closer to what is current today is the guy with a current CCW plus a stack of expired ones saved in the bottom dresser draw is equal when boarding the plane with potential whack jobs. Not saying anyone should get special treatment but feel every single Special agent of the FBI and every single agent of homeland security knows in his or her heart of hearts that some people are not going to pull a Alex Baldwin panty fit about turning off a electronic device when asked to at the very least. As humans we do not live up to the ability to devise a system that actually employs logic fitting for the times. Instead we employ systems that cater to liberals who like the feel and sound of things but really prefer ridiculous.

[highnote]

I think airlines should be responsible for their own security or they could hire an outside firm.

Everyone knows gov is inefficient. TSA is a waste of taxpayer money. I'd rather see airlines pay for their own security and have it paid for by customers. The free market could handle this better than a gov agency.

Would there be problems? Yes. Of course, there would be. And guess what would happen? The problems would get fixed or else people would stop flying the airlines with problems.

Right now, if there is a problem with TSA customers have no recourse. TSA is a gov monopoly.

Security would be better if it was done by for-profit companies.

[boxcar]

Security would be better if it was done by for-profit companies.

And the best solution would be to learn from the Israelis. But that makes too much sense.

Boxcar

[highnote]

And the best solution would be to learn from the Israelis. But that makes too much sense.

Boxcar


I flew El Al Airlines to Israel back in the 90s. The woman who checked me asked a lot of questions and carried a machine gun.

[NJ Stinks]

It's almost impossible to not respond to the endless moaning.

How many problems have we had since 9-11?

How many passengers get through without a hint of a problem at the airport?

You guys want perfection in a job that pays about $35,000 a year on average. I don't know about you but I wouldn't touch that job for that kind of money. Would you?

If you do, here's the job qualifications:



QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:

Applicants must meet these qualifications in order to be further evaluated in the TSO hiring process:

Be a U.S. Citizen or U.S. National at time of application submission;
Be at least 18 years of age at time of application submission;
Be proficient in the English language (i.e., able to read, write, speak, and listen);
Have a high school diploma or General Educational Development (GED) credential OR at least one year of full-time work experience in the security industry, aviation screening, or as an X-ray technician.
[And some other stuff required - see below:]

KEY REQUIREMENTS



Pass a background investigation including a credit and criminal check

Pass a Drug Screening and Medical Evaluation

No default on $7,500 or more in delinquent debt (but for some bankruptcies)

No delinquent Federal or State taxes or past due child support payments

Selective Service registration required


Link: http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/314855200

[johnhannibalsmith]

... I don't know about you but I wouldn't touch that job for that kind of money. Would you?

...

If I wasn't collecting a federal government pension or if I wasn't only on week 23 of unemployment benefits that go on for eternity or if I had bills to pay, a family to feed and house, and the general belief that having a job and making money is better than not having a job and crying about not having a job, then yes, I would take that job. I would hate it, but the world was built on the backs of people that hated their jobs.

[highnote]

This is all fine and good, but it would still be better to have private enterprise handle the security needs because customers would choose the airlines with the best security operation. This in turn would prompt the other airlines to beef up their security to match the competition. Those airlines who don't match up would lose business. I like the idea of the free market determining what works best.



It's almost impossible to not respond to the endless moaning.

How many problems have we had since 9-11?

How many passengers get through without a hint of a problem at the airport?

You guys want perfection in a job that pays about $35,000 a year on average. I don't know about you but I wouldn't touch that job for that kind of money. Would you?

If you do, here's the job qualifications:



QUALIFICATIONS REQUIRED:

Applicants must meet these qualifications in order to be further evaluated in the TSO hiring process:

Be a U.S. Citizen or U.S. National at time of application submission;
Be at least 18 years of age at time of application submission;
Be proficient in the English language (i.e., able to read, write, speak, and listen);
Have a high school diploma or General Educational Development (GED) credential OR at least one year of full-time work experience in the security industry, aviation screening, or as an X-ray technician.
[And some other stuff required - see below:]

KEY REQUIREMENTS



Pass a background investigation including a credit and criminal check

Pass a Drug Screening and Medical Evaluation

No default on $7,500 or more in delinquent debt (but for some bankruptcies)

No delinquent Federal or State taxes or past due child support payments

Selective Service registration required


Link: http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/314855200

[Robert Goren]

I think airlines should be responsible for their own security or they could hire an outside firm.

Everyone knows gov is inefficient. TSA is a waste of taxpayer money. I'd rather see airlines pay for their own security and have it paid for by customers. The free market could handle this better than a gov agency.

Would there be problems? Yes. Of course, there would be. And guess what would happen? The problems would get fixed or else people would stop flying the airlines with problems.

Right now, if there is a problem with TSA customers have no recourse. TSA is a gov monopoly.

Security would be better if it was done by for-profit companies.We tried that and the result was planes flying into buildings.

[highnote]

We tried that and the result was planes flying into buildings.

Had the U.S. Gov't agencies responsible for U.S. security been paying attention in the first place those planes never would have been able to fly into buildings.

The creation of TSA was a knee jerk reaction to 911 -- and a power grab.

The Bush admin could have just as easily said that airlines need to be responsible for their own security. The U.S. Gov't could still have had a role in training, advising and communicating with private security companies.

[JustRalph]

Stinks.......that's more than i made as a 911 operator

[Robert Goren]

Had the U.S. Gov't agencies responsible for U.S. security been paying attention in the first place those planes never would have been able to fly into buildings.

The creation of TSA was a knee jerk reaction to 911 -- and a power grab.

The Bush admin could have just as easily said that airlines need to be responsible for their own security. The U.S. Gov't could still have had a role in training, advising and communicating with private security companies.How could they have done that? Fine them the next time somebody hijacks one of their planes? When you leave the private companies in charge of anything, it doesn't take long for the cost of it to become the overriding concern. This is doubly true in the airline industry where most of the airlines have been having financial problems long before 9/11.
You are right that some U.S. Gov't agencies did miss this threat just like they missed the OK city bombing or even Pearl Harbor. After something like those happen, the agencies adjust their thinking and do a better job at least for awhile. There haven't been anymore 9/11s or OK cities since they happen, but that wasn't from terrorists not trying. There is trial going on right now of a terrorist that government caught. The plot involved the NYC subway system. I am not sure his group would have caught pre 9/11.

[boxcar]

I flew El Al Airlines to Israel back in the 90s. The woman who checked me asked a lot of questions and carried a machine gun.

So? Tell me, please, which experience would be more intrusive: The one you just described or the one that pats you down, touches your junk or scans your body and puts it at a health risk? And aren't TSA agents armed?

Boxcar

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Robert Goren
We tried that and the result was planes flying into buildings.


Had the security guys done their job that day, 9/11 would have been stopped.

[Robert Goren]

Had the security guys done their job that day, 9/11 would have been stopped.
Both the government ones and the rent-a-cop ones that airlines employed. And Bush would have acted the report that was sitting on his desk unread before he took off to Florida.... There is plenty of blame to go around for 9/11. Congressial hearing found there were federal agents who thought there was something afoot, but they were ignored by higher ups. The point is that going back to doing things the way they were on 9/11 will mean that something simular will likely happen again. 9/11 didn't happen because security was to tight, it happened because it was too lax. I am amazed that people want to return to that lax security. The safety of someone working in a sky scrapper should depend on some low level scanner who is scared to check someone because they might throw a fit about being searched. A chain is only as good as its weakest link. I do not believe for one second that a terrorist would not use an old lady or a baby to smuggle a bomb aboard a plane. Heaven knows that drug smugglers have tried used them. The Viet Cong used young childern to kill US troops. A friend of mine died that way.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Stinks.......that's more than i made as a 911 operator

I'm beginning to wonder just how well IRS auditors are paid when that kind of salary is treated like a minimum wage job. That $35k would be the best year for me in a long time.

[Rookies]

Here's a description of what presumably happens pre all El Al flights. http://www.examiner.com/article/exactly-what-are-israeli-airport-security-measures-and-would-they-work-here

It's an interesting read and I've never been through one, having never travelled to Israel. The writers' response to the question about whether American (or North American travellers for that matter) would put up with the intense invasiveness, the time alloted to go through it, the missing flights and the intrusion of deep questioning, is that they would.

I highly doubt it.

And there's the rub. If you're going to upgrade from the Walmart greeter to a sophisticated security operation, that shift demands many different changes. Would travellers here on this Forum, for example, be happy and willing to comply with such an airport security upgrade and, as the author mentions AND pay an extra $70 per to pay for it ?

Pleeeease. Never.

[highnote]

And there's the rub. If you're going to upgrade from the Walmart greeter to a sophisticated security operation, that shift demands many different changes. Would travellers here on this Forum, for example, be happy and willing to comply with such an airport security upgrade and, as the author mentions AND pay an extra $70 per to pay for it ?

Pleeeease. Never.


I think the cost of security should be born by travelers, not taxpayers.

A portion of the U.S. federal taxes that some non-flying taxpayers pay no doubt goes to airport security. It would be better, in my opinion, if airlines and their customers paid for their own security. Although, I seem to recall that there are now extra fees tacked onto airline tickets for security.

[highnote]

So? Tell me, please, which experience would be more intrusive: The one you just described or the one that pats you down, touches your junk or scans your body and puts it at a health risk? And aren't TSA agents armed?

Boxcar


The El Al experience was far less intrusive. To my knowledge there have been no El Al airplanes hijacked and involved in acts of terror. I'll take the El Al experience any day.

[TJDave]

And the best solution would be to learn from the Israelis. But that makes too much sense.


I once got on an EL AL flight with a 3" blade pocket knife. The agent asked if I had any weapons. I said I had a knife. He looked at it and in a scene reminiscent of Crocodile Dundee said, "That's not a knife." and handed it back.

[highnote]

How could they have done that? Fine them the next time somebody hijacks one of their planes? When you leave the private companies in charge of anything, it doesn't take long for the cost of it to become the overriding concern. This is doubly true in the airline industry where most of the airlines have been having financial problems long before 9/11.


Cost should be an overriding concern. If an airline cuts costs and one of their planes gets hijacked then they will either go out of business or beef up their security.

How much money, time and effort should the U.S. spend to prevent terrorism? Should the U.S. go bankrupt trying to stop terrorism? Is bankruptcy an acceptable outcome?

I would argue that not every act of terror can be stopped everywhere. The world is a dangerous place to live and people should accept that there are risks.

Has it really been worth all the money, time and lives the U.S. has spent to invade Iraq and Afganistan?

The threat of terror still exists. The only thing that has changed is that the balance of power has shifted in the middle east.

[highnote]

I once got on an EL AL flight with a 3" blade pocket knife. The agent asked if I had any weapons. I said I had a knife. He looked at it and in a scene reminiscent of Crocodile Dundee said, "That's not a knife." and handed it back.


My grandfather was a tough old farmer. In his later years, probably about 1970, he flew with my mother to Paris to visit my brother who was an exchange student. He wore his bib overalls on the flight. When he got in line the security agent told him he couldn't take his pocket knife on the airplane. He said, "Son, I've been carrying this pocket knife for 50 years. I'll be goddamned if I'm going to stop now." He boarded the flight with his knife.

[NJ Stinks]

I'm beginning to wonder just how well IRS auditors are paid when that kind of salary is treated like a minimum wage job. That $35k would be the best year for me in a long time.

My starting salary was $9,500 and I was making about $28G's after 10 years. Of course, I'm talking about 1973 and 1983.

My point is not that someone who needs a job desperately to raise a family (or whatever) would or should look down at the opportunity offered by working for TSA. Rather, my point is that when you consider the qualifications for the job along with what it pays, certainly there are going to be bad apples hired. Especially in a place like San Diego where $35G's isn't going to buy much.

P.S. There are lots of jobs I wouldn't touch. For example, I wouldn't be a funeral director for $200G's a year.

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Rather, my point is that when you consider the qualifications for the job along with what it pays, certainly there are going to be bad apples hired...

I'm tempted to Gooooooooogle salaries for Secret Service agents. ;)

[Rookies]

I'm tempted to Gooooooooogle salaries for Secret Service agents. ;)

Might be an excellent time to enter this job market... :D

[JustRalph]

P.S. There are lots of jobs I wouldn't touch. For example, I wouldn't be a funeral director for $200G's a year.

Most Funeral directors make much more than that.......

[Pace Cap'n]

I'm tempted to Gooooooooogle salaries for Secret Service agents. ;)

About $80,000/yr, with a chance to get some head.

[Tom]

Talk about taking one for the president!

[JustRalph]

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11371144-tsa-pats-down-4-year-old-after-she-hugs-grandmother?lite


How many gun totin 4 year olds have attacked Americans

?

[highnote]

http://overheadbin.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/24/11371144-tsa-pats-down-4-year-old-after-she-hugs-grandmother?lite


How many gun totin 4 year olds have attacked Americans

?


You simply can not trust Kansas grandmothers. Everybody knows this. What's the big deal? :rolleyes:

Every child should have to go alone to a secluded room to be debriefed (pardon the pun) by TSA whenever there is suspicion of terrorism. Children won't lie. If the girl had a gun given to her by her grandmother then the girl would have told the truth and grandma would have been arrested.

The only thing that will stop terrorism is terrorizing our own children at a young age so that when they grow up they will be afraid to commit a crime.

Yeah. That's the ticket!

[lsbets]

Most Funeral directors make much more than that.......

You ever notice every time you see the local funeral director he shakes your hand?

He's checking your pulse.

[boxcar]

You ever notice every time you see the local funeral director he shakes your hand?

He's checking your pulse.

Only if the director is shaking some extraterrestrial's hand, perhaps. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. Good thing you didn't try to become a doctor. :rolleyes:

[highnote]

Only if the director is shaking some extraterrestrial's hand, perhaps. :rolleyes:

Boxcar
P.S. Good thing you didn't try to become a doctor. :rolleyes:


What? Are you a funeral director? :D

[lsbets]

What? Are you a funeral director? :D

Thanks for quoting that John.

That was his response to a fairly common joke?

Ass clown, that's Box.

[boxcar]

What? Are you a funeral director? :D

Don't have to be to know where the pulse is in humans. You don't know?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Thanks for quoting that John.

That was his response to a fairly common joke?

Ass clown, that's Box.

Hey, John, tell yo-yo LS that is was a response to a stupid joke. It's no wonder he used it and thinks so highly of it. :lol:

Boxcar