The Tax man is too much for some. Renounce citizenship

[JustRalph]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47064295

People renouncing citizenship in the U.S. to avoid regulations and taxes

[Robert Goren]

Good Riddance!!!!! For everyone of those losers, there are plenty who are willing to their place. 1700 getting out and over 10 million illegals already here who would gladly take their place as citizens and pay their taxes and probably more than that number who would come here and become citizens if we let them. Most Americans realise how lucky they are to born Americans. Many even put their lives on the line to defend this country. To those few who think that being an American is too trouble to be bother with, I say to them "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out".

[JustRalph]

Good Riddance!!!!! For everyone of those losers, there are plenty who are willing to their place. 1700 getting out and over 10 million illegals already here who would gladly take their place as citizens and pay their taxes and probably more than that number who would come here and become citizens if we let them. Most Americans realise how lucky they are to born Americans. Many even put their lives on the line to defend this country. To those few who think that being an American is too trouble to be bother with, I say to them "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out".

You win the booby prize........i made a bet that you or one of your compadres would say 'good riddance'. Didn't take long..... :lol:

So predictable.....

[Dick Schmidt]

I've always wondered about those who think they can resign from being a citizen. That would mean they renounce police and fire protection, they would never drive on a public roadway or walk on a public sidewalk. They would renounce the use of government printed money and become fair game for anyone who wants to rob or harm them. To attack or shoot one would not be a crime I suppose. Strange how these people think they can skip paying taxes yet continue to enjoy tax supported services. To become an uncitizen is to become an unperson.

Dick

Who just recently sent the government a large check and is glad to have the privilage of paying taxes to a government that provides a good life for him and his family.

[lsbets]

Whatever happened to the dude who used to post on here about being a sovereign citizen and some crap about the federal district or whatever loony shit he posted? Is he in jail?

[boxcar]

Good Riddance!!!!! For everyone of those losers, there are plenty who are willing to their place. 1700 getting out and over 10 million illegals already here who would gladly take their place as citizens and pay their taxes and probably more than that number who would come here and become citizens if we let them. Most Americans realise how lucky they are to born Americans. Many even put their lives on the line to defend this country. To those few who think that being an American is too trouble to be bother with, I say to them "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out".

I never thought you had it in you to wax so patriotic. I always thought you were one of those libs who preached how America was wrong with everything in the world -- too rich -- too powerful -- too arrogant -- too domineering internationally -- far too capitalistic -- way too greedy -- too disrespectful to the goddess Mother Earth, etc. What a day of remarkable revelation this is! :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I've always wondered about those who think they can resign from being a citizen. That would mean they renounce police and fire protection, they would never drive on a public roadway or walk on a public sidewalk. They would renounce the use of government printed money and become fair game for anyone who wants to rob or harm them. To attack or shoot one would not be a crime I suppose. Strange how these people think they can skip paying taxes yet continue to enjoy tax supported services. To become an uncitizen is to become an unperson.

Huh!??? I think these people renounced their citizenship not because they balked at paying for the essential services, but because they perceived the government was confiscating way too much of their hard-earned money to redistribute their wealth to others. I think there's a point where people say: Enough is enough! They think: I bust my rump every day to support myself and my family, risk my money in business, etc., for what? So that my tax dollars can buy someone's contraceptives? Or so that I can become a surrogate parent and help feed someone else's out-of-wedlock baby, etc., etc., etc.?

Dick

Who just recently sent the government a large check and is glad to have the privilage of paying taxes to a government that provides a good life for him and his family.

And I'm still kicking myself for way overestimating my tax liabiltiy. I really missed the mark for last year, so I'm waiting for the government to send me a large check ASAP. I will put that money to much better and productive use than the the State ever could.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47064295

People renouncing citizenship in the U.S. to avoid regulations and taxes

There's a companion story to this one, too. On the radio yesterday I heard that the UK estimates that about 2 million wealthy Brits will be making their exodus from Great Britian int the next few years or so. They, too, feel they're paying too much of their "fair share". However, I don't think they have to renounce their citizenship. They can simply relocate to some other country because the British government doesn't tax their citizens who work abroad, as the U.S. does.

Boxcar

[GameTheory]

I think some are missing the fact that the article is talking about Americans that don't live in America -- they all are already dual-citizens or presumably become citizens where they actually live. The U.S. is unusual in that it demands you pay taxes on money you make in other countries (you also have to pay the host country in most cases), and also wants to know every detail of your foreign accounts (or your spouse's, even if they aren't American, as the article points out). And now with foreign banks in your place of residence refusing to even give you an account to avoid the hassle, I can sympathize. It is not an unreasonable choice for some.

[boxcar]

I think some are missing the fact that the article is talking about Americans that don't live in America -- they all are already dual-citizens or presumably become citizens where they actually live. The U.S. is unusual in that it demands you pay taxes on money you make in other countries (you also have to pay the host country in most cases), and also wants to know every detail of your foreign accounts (or your spouse's, even if they aren't American, as the article points out). And now with foreign banks in your place of residence refusing to even give you an account to avoid the hassle, I can sympathize. It is not an unreasonable choice for some.

And I read somewhere that the new IRS regulations are so complex and so numerous that compliance is virtually impossible. And here's the kicker: If the IRS finds that you didn't comply perfectly in filling out the mountains of paperwork, they could levy very stiff fines. I believe the whole overseas system is designed to get people to not comply so that the government can collect those heavy fines and penalties.

Great tax system.... :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[TJDave]

I am with Mr Goren 1000%. Funny how these same folks don't have a problem with making their fortunes here. There are a lot worse things than paying excessive taxes. Here's an idea...Maybe a few months vacation in North Korea would open their eyes.

[TJDave]

I think some are missing the fact that the article is talking about Americans that don't live in America -- they all are already dual-citizens or presumably become citizens where they actually live. The U.S. is unusual in that it demands you pay taxes on money you make in other countries (you also have to pay the host country in most cases), and also wants to know every detail of your foreign accounts (or your spouse's, even if they aren't American, as the article points out). And now with foreign banks in your place of residence refusing to even give you an account to avoid the hassle, I can sympathize. It is not an unreasonable choice for some.

Technically, I'm one of these folks. Most of what you are saying isn't accurate. You get offsets of almost 100k and foreign banks will compete for your business. The regulations are not excessive nor compliance difficult.

Unpatriotic whiners, all. :mad:

[boxcar]

Technically, I'm one of these folks. Most of what you are saying isn't accurate. You get offsets of almost 100k and foreign banks will compete for your business. The regulations are not excessive nor compliance difficult.

Unpatriotic whiners, all. :mad:

You could not be more wrong with respect to Americans working overseas. In fact, many overseas banks don't even want Americans opening accounts with them because the IRS forces the banks to comply with reporting requirements, which includes quite a bit of paperwork. The banks don't want to be bothered.
Can't say I blame them.

Boxcar

[acorn54]

as far as the complexity of complying with the tax laws,we live in a complex world for better or for worse.
when you have an illness you go to a doctor who has years of training on the science of the body and it's illnesses, even nature is complex.
to comply with the tax laws you hire a tax lawyer or a cpa that have years of training in preparing taxes.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
to comply with the tax laws you hire a tax lawyer or a cpa that have years of training in preparing taxes.

Exhibit A for taking the whole damn thing and shredding it.

Middle men - making every system required of the common man too complicated for the common man to contend with and then jumping in to the rescue, taking your money and watching you slobber with gratitude for taking it.

[boxcar]

as far as the complexity of complying with the tax laws,we live in a complex world for better or for worse.
when you have an illness you go to a doctor who has years of training on the science of the body and it's illnesses, even nature is complex.
to comply with the tax laws you hire a tax lawyer or a cpa that have years of training in preparing taxes.

Your analogy is flawed. The "science of the body" is complex due the nature of the subject, over which we have no control to change. But the tax code is manufactured complexity. It doesn't have to be that complex because the system could be reformed to make it much simpler. We can change the nature of the current tax by simply switching to another system that by its nature would be simpler to implement and easier to comprehend.

The following link might help to put things into perspective for you. Notice carefully that the code didn't start out to be that complex but grew into the monster it has become today. Dave says that 72,536 pages of tax code isn't complex. He'll probably really love it when it grows to become double that size. :rolleyes:

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/07/2011-number-of-pages-in-us-tax-code.html

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

I think some are missing the fact that the article is talking about Americans that don't live in America -- they all are already dual-citizens or presumably become citizens where they actually live. The U.S. is unusual in that it demands you pay taxes on money you make in other countries (you also have to pay the host country in most cases), and also wants to know every detail of your foreign accounts (or your spouse's, even if they aren't American, as the article points out). And now with foreign banks in your place of residence refusing to even give you an account to avoid the hassle, I can sympathize. It is not an unreasonable choice for some. Dual citizenship is joke. The US should make these people choose. You are either an America or you are not. If they want to be an Israeli or whatever, that is fine. But if you want to be an American, be a 100% one.
There some Americans who work abroad and that is fine. They have an unique set of problems and I have some sympathy for them. But if it becomes too much for them to handle, they can always quit and move move back.

[GameTheory]

Dual citizenship is joke. The US should make these people choose. You are either an America or you are not. If they want to be an Israeli or whatever, that is fine. But if you want to be an American, be a 100% one.
There some Americans who work abroad and that is fine. They have an unique set of problems and I have some sympathy for them. But if it becomes too much for them to handle, they can always quit and move move back.What kind of liberal are you? Disenchanted with the European model? Nobody else taxes income from foreign countries. Dual-citizenship is quite common around the world. Where's your enlightenment? When a person from one country marries a person from another, and especially if they have children, dual-citizenship makes sense in many cases.

[Robert Goren]

What kind of liberal are you? Disenchanted with the European model? Nobody else taxes income from foreign countries. Dual-citizenship is quite common around the world. Where's your enlightenment? When a person from one country marries a person from another, and especially if they have children, dual-citizenship makes sense in many cases.I am the kind that believes you can not serve in two armies at the same time. It may or may not make sense of the people have it, but it doesn't make sense for America to allow it. Divided loyalities don't make any sense. Having two country is like having two wives or two husbands. Somebody opr some country is getting the short end.

[TJDave]

You could not be more wrong with respect to Americans working overseas. In fact, many overseas banks don't even want Americans opening accounts with them because the IRS forces the banks to comply with reporting requirements, which includes quite a bit of paperwork. The banks don't want to be bothered.
Can't say I blame them.

Boxcar

OK, what part of "Technically, I'm one of these folks" did you not understand? I live (part-time) and have business interests outside of the States. I have personal experience which means I sorta know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

Most, if not all foreign banks do business in the U.S. They already comply as a matter of charter requirements.

[Tom]

If you don't want to pay taxes, register as a democrat and join the 52%ers.

Funny bobby has no problem with that HUGE groups of anchors, but begrudges those who actually worked for their money and want to keep it.

I would rather have a nation full of those people than the slugs we are saturated with now.

[GameTheory]

I am the kind that believes you can not serve in two armies at the same time. It may or may not make sense of the people have it, but it doesn't make sense for America to allow it. Divided loyalities don't make any sense. Having two country is like having two wives or two husbands. Somebody opr some country is getting the short end.Priorities, priorities. There is a price to pay if we disallow it as well.

We do let non-citizens into our own military you know (although they can't be officers). The Republican plan being currently floated for dealing with illegal immigration calls for applicants who want legal status to serve 2 years in the military while still being non-citizens (there is another choice, can't remember what it is). Interestingly, this plan doesn't provide a path to citizenship at all, just legal status, but it is turning out to have great support among the immigrant population to the chagrin of the left who always project a bunch of nonsense onto their perceived "oppressed groups" without actually interacting or asking people from those groups what they really want. Turns out the immigrants don't care about a "path to citizenship" or voting. (They also generally oppose bi-lingual education and other such leftist creations that do them harm in the name of compassion.) They just want to be legal so they can live above board in the U.S. -- go figure.

[Bettowin]

Whatever happened to the dude who used to post on here about being a sovereign citizen and some crap about the federal district or whatever loony shit he posted? Is he in jail?

Are you talking about Light?

[lsbets]

Are you talking about Light?

No, I can't remember his name. I'm sure someone does. I think he had been in some legal trouble for selling a tax avoidance scheme in the past.

[GameTheory]

No, I can't remember his name. I'm sure someone does. I think he had been in some legal trouble for selling a tax avoidance scheme in the past.
Jonnielu. Banned I think?

[JustRalph]

I've always wondered about those who think they can resign from being a citizen. That would mean they renounce police and fire protection, they would never drive on a public roadway or walk on a public sidewalk. They would renounce the use of government printed money and become fair game for anyone who wants to rob or harm them. To attack or shoot one would not be a crime I suppose. Strange how these people think they can skip paying taxes yet continue to enjoy tax supported services. To become an uncitizen is to become an unperson.

Dick

Who just recently sent the government a large check and is glad to have the privilage of paying taxes to a government that provides a good life for him and his family.

I guess you missed the part about them leaving the country, Dick?

[lsbets]

Jonnielu. Banned I think?

Yeah, that's the dude.

I figured he was in jail.

[boxcar]

OK, what part of "Technically, I'm one of these folks" did you not understand? I live (part-time) and have business interests outside of the States. I have personal experience which means I sorta know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

Having business interests (e.g. investments) abroad and earning a living abroad (wages) are two very different things. Therefore, you don't know what you're talking about. Google it. Maybe you'll learn something.

As far as the foreign banks go, the regulations in recent years have changed drastically. Speaking NON-TECHNICALLY, since my wife actually worked overseas a few decades ago, it used to be much, much simpler for Americans to comply, according to her. In fact, she didn't even have to file back then because her wages fell under the 90K or so filing threshold.

When foreign banks balk at opening accounts for Americans living and working in their countries, then you know something is seriously amiss.

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

Yeah, that's the dude.

I figured he was in jail.

I think he's immune from prosecution as a sovereign country of one.

[boxcar]

OK, what part of "Technically, I'm one of these folks" did you not understand? I live (part-time) and have business interests outside of the States. I have personal experience which means I sorta know what I'm talking about. :rolleyes:

Most, if not all foreign banks do business in the U.S. They already comply as a matter of charter requirements.

Okay, what part of extremely complex don't you understand? I'm thinking that if the tax code were twice the size than it currently is, you'd still be defending that unnecessary and insane monstrosity.

The rules pertaining to who needs to file which tax form as well as the preparation of reports are extremely complex and should be addressed with the assistance of a competent U.S. international tax advisor. Persons who are required to file these reports but fail to do so (or prepare them incorrectly) may be subject to substantial monetary penalties as well as criminal prosecution for intentionally ignoring their responsibilities. Special guidelines for voluntary compliance before September 23 have been established by the IRS for persons who failed to comply with these rules in prior tax years depending on whether they are now voluntarily reporting undisclosed income or merely overlooked filing the required foreign information reports but had no additional income to report. All U.S. international taxpayers are urged to review their prior year and present filing requirements now and if necessary, take steps to correct the situation before the deadline.

And again,

Where once only multinational corporations and their expatriate executives were usually subject to these complex international tax rules and reporting requirements, over the past decade more and more Americans (including small and medium sized businesses and individual citizens) have sought economic opportunities abroad.[i] Unfortunately, U.S. international tax rules are extremely complex and are beyond the knowledge and comprehension of CPAs and Tax Specialists who have not been exposed to or specialize in U.S. international tax. [i]As a result many U.S. expatriates and small/ medium businesses inadvertently fail to file all required reports and often miscalculate their U.S. income tax on foreign income or business activities. For some this means paying far too much U.S. tax while others substantially understate their U.S. income and employment tax liabilities exposing them to substantial penalties.

http://www.powerstax.com/irs_warning.htm

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

Priorities, priorities. There is a price to pay if we disallow it as well.

We do let non-citizens into our own military you know (although they can't be officers). The Republican plan being currently floated for dealing with illegal immigration calls for applicants who want legal status to serve 2 years in the military while still being non-citizens (there is another choice, can't remember what it is). Interestingly, this plan doesn't provide a path to citizenship at all, just legal status, but it is turning out to have great support among the immigrant population to the chagrin of the left who always project a bunch of nonsense onto their perceived "oppressed groups" without actually interacting or asking people from those groups what they really want. Turns out the immigrants don't care about a "path to citizenship" or voting. (They also generally oppose bi-lingual education and other such leftist creations that do them harm in the name of compassion.) They just want to be legal so they can live above board in the U.S. -- go figure.How many republicans have signed on this plan? It wouldn't fly with republicans in this state and wouldn't even fly with most of what few democrats we have here. This sounds like a scheme dreamed up by the people who now employ them. The people like me who want them deported, don't want them here period. If they got to be here, then they should be citizens. The last thing we need is a lot of non citizens in this country. It is asking for trouble. I think we should tightly control immigration and with very few exceptions the people coming here should want to become citizens of this country.Futhermore it should apply to all immigrants whether they are from Mexico or the Middle East or Asia or Europe.

[TJDave]

Having business interests (e.g. investments) abroad and earning a living abroad (wages) are two very different things. Therefore, you don't know what you're talking about.

I both own and work in (as in receiving a salary from) offshore companies.

I currently have accounts with several foreign banks.

I own property and pay taxes in foreign countries and the U.S.

I consult with offshore companies regarding tax liability.

I am an enrolled agent with the IRS.

I know what I'm talking about.

[boxcar]

I am an enrolled agent with the IRS.

It's no wonder you can't bring yourself to criticize the tax code. Thanks for your impartial and objective opinion.

Boxcar

[chickenhead]

I don't have much of an issue with dual citizenship or looser tax laws on foreign income.

I guess it has to do with American exceptional-ism that we get so fired up about this...people leave countries and join new ones all the time. 1700 seems stupidly low, considering our population and the tax laws for those living abroad.

A ton of ex-pats wherever you go...they live a pretty nice life it seems, usually. Americans appear underrepresented amongst the nomads.

[boxcar]

I currently have accounts with several foreign banks.

I'm sure you do. I have about 150 such accounts myself, not wanting to put all my eggs in one basket, of course. :rolleyes: But if you go back and read what I said earlier, I said that in some countries banks don't want to open up NEW accounts for American citizens. I imagine if you have an existing one, the bank won't force you to close it -- at least not at this time. Here's more on the foreign banking side of this tax issue:

Treasury, IRS propose easier tax rules for overseas banks

Overseas financial institutions including Toronto-Dominion Bank of Canada, Allianz of Germany and Aegon of the Netherlands have said earlier versions of FATCA were too complex. In some cases, the reporting requirements under U.S. law conflicted with bank secrecy laws and other banking regulations.

U.S. citizens living outside the country have complained about the burden created by the reporting requirement, which can apply to people who have never lived in the United States and whose parents are U.S. citizens.

Not surprisingly the 5 big socialist countries in Europe are sucking up to the IRS, but not all countries want to abide.

Several countries where U.S. citizens hold assets, including Canada and Switzerland, weren’t included in the agreement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/treasury-irs-propose-easier-tax-rules-for-overseas-banks/2012/02/08/gIQAhiD4zQ_story.html

Boxcar

[TJDave]

It's no wonder you can't bring yourself to criticize the tax code. Thanks for your impartial and objective opinion.

Boxcar

You have no clue.

Google "enrolled agent".

[boxcar]

You have no clue.

Google "enrolled agent".

I know what it is. Still doesn't change my opinion. You're hardly an unbiased observer who can view the tax code objectively. You ARE ONE of THEM, not "one of us". I bet you can't wait until the tax code triples in size. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[elysiantraveller]

I know what it is. Still doesn't change my opinion. You're hardly an unbiased observer who can view the tax code objectively. You ARE ONE of THEM, not "one of us". I bet you can't wait until the tax code triples in size. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

Do you tell your doctor whats wrong with you too? :rolleyes:

[Tom]

Yeah, that's the dude.

I figured he was in jail.

He works for Beyer Associates now.

[boxcar]

Do you tell your doctor whats wrong with you too? :rolleyes:

What is a "whats"? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Robert Goren]

He works for Beyer Associates now. If this is not sarcasm on Tom's part, thanks for the update. He was one strange dude, entertaining, but strange.

[newtothegame]

Good Riddance!!!!! For everyone of those losers, there are plenty who are willing to their place. 1700 getting out and over 10 million illegals already here who would gladly take their place as citizens and pay their taxes and probably more than that number who would come here and become citizens if we let them. Most Americans realise how lucky they are to born Americans. Many even put their lives on the line to defend this country. To those few who think that being an American is too trouble to be bother with, I say to them "Don't let the door hit you on the butt on the way out".
So Bobby, please do tell ...why don't they? Why don't they gain their citizenship and pay their fair share? Why do they send tons of money out of this country every year, to their home countries?
Maybe this is why the democratic machine is claiming they don't need ID's to vote....I mean that would be one step closer to tracking all of those Illegals who would "gladly take their place"...god forbid! :bang:

[lsbets]

If this is not sarcasm on Tom's part, thanks for the update. He was one strange dude, entertaining, but strange.

I've been thinking the same thing. I can't tell if its sarcasm or not.

[Robert Goren]

So Bobby, please do tell ...why don't they? Why don't they gain their citizenship and pay their fair share? Why do they send tons of money out of this country every year, to their home countries?
Maybe this is why the democratic machine is claiming they don't need ID's to vote....I mean that would be one step closer to tracking all of those Illegals who would "gladly take their place"...god forbid! :bang:So where your eviedence that illegals are voting? They certainly are voting for democrats in any numbers or all the border states would be solidly democratic according to your theory.
As for wanting them gone, nobody wants that more than me. They have no ties to this country and are a huge liability. The only people who really want them here are their employers who see them as cheap labor and not care about the harm they cause.

[Tom]

I've been thinking the same thing. I can't tell if its sarcasm or not.

It was.
Johnny was very anti-Beyer.:D

[Pace Cap'n]

Now he's having Beyer's remorse.

[Tom]

Now he's having Beyer's remorse.

I don't care who you are, that is funny!:lol:

[Tom]

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