Havre de Grace nominated to Oaklawn Hdcp: Why bother?

[FenceBored]

Say what?
Rick Porter’s champion mare trained by Larry Jones has been nominated to both the $500,000 Apple Blossom Handicap (gr. I) for fillies and mares April 13 and the $400,000 Oaklawn Handicap (gr. II) April 14.
Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/68665/havre-de-grace-tops-racing-festival-noms#ixzz1rC5108ss

Why would they consider running in G2 for $100k less money? Is it the weight? Are there some really scary fillies they'd avoid by facing Win Willy and the boys? Hmmm...
Let's go to Oaklawn's Handicap
Run 'gainst Win Willy and the boys
To give two pounds to It's Tricky
In the Apple Blossom would our hopes destroy

[Jasonm921]

Not sure why either...none of these fillies could come close to Grace. Porter could do whatever he wants...years ago I would have complained about the weight shopping but nowadays I am just happy seeing a quality horse around for more than one season...so let him do what he wants.

[cj]

IT is the weight. Jones has been whining about it already.

[FenceBored]

IT is the weight. Jones has been whining about it already.

Looking at other perspectives here, I'm not seeing a downside from Oaklawn's perspective for encouraging HDG to go in the Oaklawn Handicap. It's a former G1 that doesn't seem to attract big names like it used to (or did for awhile at least). Maybe having the reigning HOY pick it over the Apple Blossom would help them in a long term strategy of regaining a G1 ranking for the race. If so, will they let Porter 'twist their arm' and up the purse on the Oaklawn Handicap a bit to make it more attractive? And would that ensure she'll get a higher impost than her connections would want in the Apple Blossom?

[FenceBored]

Sigh, Oaklawn Handicap it is, I guess.
Should she start at 123 pounds in the Apple Blossom, Havre de Grace would concede between six and 11 pounds to her expected competition.

Havre de Grace was also assigned 118 pounds for the $400,000 Oaklawn Handicap (gr. II) against males. The Oaklawn Handicap is the day after the Apple Blossom.

Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/68747/havre-de-grace-works-assigned-123-pounds#ixzz1rOOqGCKV

[horses4courses]

It was announced this afternoon that Havre De Grace will not run in the Apple Blossom.

[cj]

Only a trainer would think 5 pounds was worthing taking on males for less money.

[Tom]

Some champion!

[shots]

I think he was planning to run her in the Oaklawn Hdcp all along. She had her prep race there. Interested to see what kind of schedule he decided on. Figure he's aiming at the Breeders Cup Classic again.

[FenceBored]

I think he was planning to run her in the Oaklawn Hdcp all along. She had her prep race there. Interested to see what kind of schedule he decided on. Figure he's aiming at the Breeders Cup Classic again.

I thought she opted for the New Orleans Ladies as her prep?

[Al Gobbi]

She will be pointed to the F&M stake on the Oaks Undercard, a race where she will carry 123lbs.

[cj]

From Rick Porter on some Facebook page, what a tool:

FROM RICK PORTER:

Larry and I really wanted to defend our title in the Apple Blossom. We were expecting fair weights and when they were released today, Larry called me and we were flabbergasted at the weights. Plum Pretty was the most unexpected but a lot of them were very unfair. Tiz Miz Sue was getting 8 pounds after just running over a hundred beyer and winning the graded Azeri Stakes. Absinthe Minded was getting 9. No one can say that we have ducked any one in racing. Hard Spun took on every tough race there was as did Round Pond and the immortal Eight Belles. We love the competition. Havre de Grace took on Blind Luck six times and ran against the boys in the prestigious Woodward and we didn't bat an eye at running in the granddaddy of them all, the Classic. We have decided one thing though, we will take on any horse and take our defeats when we get them but we won't let the racing secretaries decide who is going to win the races. That is why we took this stand on the Apple Blossom. The weights are unfair and I have asked all the journalists to demand that Pope explain how he came up with the numbers for the weights. He owes it to the fans that were going to pack the house for the Apple Blossom. He just didn't invent these weights, his duty as racing secretary is to analyse each horse and their races and come up with fair weights. Since he had to do it, he should make it public so we can see his thinking and reasoning. I hope he takes on his responsibility. We will run in The La Troienne at Churchill Downs on May 4th. This is exactly what I said we would do if Pope came out with unfair weights. I hope you all understand. We have decisions to make in running a racing operation and today was one of those tough ones.

The use of immortal in regards to Eight Belles probably wasn't well thought out here, but neither was much else in the post.

[Tom]

The only class in that barn if HDG.

[classhandicapper]

It's the Grade 2 La Troienne.

I'm pretty forgiving of trainers that don't go out of their way looking for tough spots when they can make just as much (or more) money in an easier spot. But I'm calling BS on avoiding the more prestigious race you were scheduled to run in to run in an easier spot for LESS money.

No one likes to spot a lot of weight to other good horses, but she was probably going to be 3-5 with the extra weight anyway. It's not even like they were asking her to carry 128 or 129 pounds or something.

[depalma113]

Translation:

Harve de Grace isn't as good now as she was at this point last year.


Note to Rick Porter:

If you don't like handicap races, don't nominate your horses to them.

[FenceBored]

Why no Oaklawn Handicap then? {check's assigned weights (http://www.oaklawn.com/media/uploads/the_oaklawn_hdcp_weights.pdf)} Getting two from Mission Impazible? What? :eek: :faint: Porter's right, that's unfair.

[Grits]

The screed on the fb page reads like the whining of a putz. The racing secretary doesn't tell Porter how to do his job, yet Porter requires and feels entitled to an explanation of how the racing secretary does his since his HOY would have, no doubt, as he indicated, packed the house.

. . . . Dream on Mr.Porter, there's immortal but it comes in the form of the truly greats. As much as you may believe so, your filly was not in this realm. The one you're whining about will come closer---that is, if you allow her the chance.

[Tom]

The point here is that he was HOY LAST year.....what have you done lately?

[FenceBored]

Is it me, or is HDG's 2012 campaign combining the weaknesses of Rachel's 2010 schedule (New Orleans Ladies, skip the Apple Blossom, then the La Troienne) and the weight complaints of Zenyatta's 2010 campaign?

[cj]

Is it me, or is HDG's 2012 campaign combining the weaknesses of Zenyatta's 2010 schedule and the weight complaints of Zenyatta's 2010 campaign?

FTFY!

[Robert Goren]

Is it possible to have thread about good horses running now without dragging Zenyatta and Rachael into it? I, for one, am sick of that debate.

[FenceBored]

FTFY! Now, now. Zenyatta didn't run in the New Orlean's Ladies (like Rachel and HDG), skip the Apple Blossom (like Rachel and HDG), and run in the La Troienne (like Rachel and reportedly HDG). But, if HDG scratches on raceday morning, that would be Zenyatta 2009.

[classhandicapper]

In case you guys are forgetting, Zenyatta carried 129 pounds twice. That's not exactly a light load for a filly/mare on the scale of weights.

Could they have given her 130 the second time?

I suppose so, but that's not exactly avoiding weight.

Let's be honest, the critics at the time wouldn't have been happy with any weight assignment unless it practically ensured her defeat.

In any event, IMO the issue here is not that he complained about the weights in an effort to secure a better assignment. Every last trainer on the planet has been doing that for decades. The issue is not running in the race you were scheduled to run in even though the weight assignment was not even tough. She would have been 2-5 or 3-5 in that race at those weights.

If trainers are going to avoid Grade 1 races with high purses to run in Grade 2 races with lower purses when they have to spot "any "weight, then we may as well just eliminate all handicap races.

[cj]

Nobody said she avoided it, just that there were complaints about it.

My post was just in jest anyway, are people still uptight about this?

[classhandicapper]

Nobody said she avoided it, just that there were complaints about it.

My post was just in jest anyway, are people still uptight about this?

I don't have much of a problem with the lobbying/complaints. The thing that bugs me is that she's avoiding one of the most prestigious Grade 1 races and highest purses for fillies/mares for the year over a couple of pounds and IMO the assignment was not even high or tough.

[cj]

I don't have much of a problem with the lobbying/complaints. The thing that bugs me is that she's avoiding one of the most prestigious Grade 1 races and highest purses for fillies/mares for the year over a couple of pounds and IMO the assignment was not even high or tough.

Yes, it is sad.

[OntheRail]

Truthfully I'd like to hear the reasoning of Race Secretary. Not for the sake of this race but to get some insight in general.

To the race... it's a shame. Back in the day high weight was considered an Honor. Something to be proud of.

Maybe one day they'll require the jockey's be neutrally buoyant with a helium vet and the assigned weight will be 0. They'd have to tether them to the saddle in case they fell up.

Someday we could here... They're rounding the clubhouse turn... Ohhhh JV was up seated around the corner and floated home two length behind Nowaitforme. :lol:

[mountainman]

I've probably weighted 150-200 handicaps, and the feedback from horsemen can be crazy. On one occasion, an utter standout assigned 128 (or 129?) demolished a field of outclassed rivals-at odds of 1/9-I think- and the trainer came in AFTER the beatdown to complain AGAIN about the impost. My favorite incident, though, was the time an owner came in to whine about a LOW weight assignment in a hcp race. There was a clause that read "high weights preferred", and the race was expected to overfill. So I understood his concern about hitting the AE's or being excluded. UNTIL, that is, the race lured just 8 or 9 actual entrants, which meant his horse indeed made the body-at which point the dude came in to complain that, come to think of it, the impost was too HIGH. You can't win when weighting handicaps. There's just NO way to keep people from bitching.

[classhandicapper]

My favorite incident, though, was the time an owner came in to whine about a LOW weight assignment in a hcp race. There was a clause that read "high weights preferred", and the race was expected to overfill. So I understood his concern about hitting the AE's or being excluded. UNTIL, that is, the race lured just 8 or 9 actual entrants, which meant his horse indeed made the body-at which point the dude came in to complain that, come to think of it, the impost was too HIGH.

OMG, no shame. :lol:

[tbwinner]

Rumors are that Harve de Grace is at Rood and Riddle and a retirement announcement is pending.

[LRL Racing]

Have to say I saw her two weeks ago and she looks GREAT. She has grown and is much stronger. Gallop girl said she is better now than ever. Totally unaware of the Rood & Riddle comment as I believe all is well except she isn't at Oaklawn and that seems to upset people for some reason. My thoughts are is that she is Porter's horse so he can do what he wants.

[cj]

My thoughts are is that she is Porter's horse so he can do what he wants.

Of course he can, but that doesn't mean he can't be criticized for making stupid statements about why he is doing what he is doing.

[rastajenk]

Back in the day high weight was considered an Honor. Something to be proud of.:What day was that?

[FenceBored]

What day was that?

August 24, 1968, or maybe November 2, 1968, I can't decide.

[Tom]

Her people area basically saying she is just that good anymore.
That spread and that high weight.....maybe Optional Claimers are her level this year.

[Canarsie]

What day was that?

It was more then one day just read this.

http://books.google.com/books?id=m5f72G7RpDsC&pg=PA286&lpg=PA286&dq=kelso+carries+137+pounds&source=bl&ots=dEsC9GQTfY&sig=NdB6Co5Yz-G0uBXvCpNds0Si0Vo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=k4mJT7CzBYmngweriMTdCQ&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=kelso%20carries%20137%20pounds&f=false

[rastajenk]

I see "pounds" highlighted several times in that link, but not "proud" or "honor." :p

[bushwick]

Tbwinner is way ahead of the game! Spot on!