Value added?

[takeout]

Just noticed that #5, Jeanie's Gold, in the 2nd race at CT tonight, 12/27/03, has a win showing in her PPs back on June 9th at Delaware (in the first race) yet her trainer's record for 2003 shows 0-for-60 with no indication in the PPs of a claim or "Previously trained by".

Whaddayathink? Trainer switch go unnoticed by Equibase?

[ranchwest]

My Track Master file from June shows Donald Campbell as the trainer. Equibase's charts showed Donald Edward Campbell as the trainer. Today's file shows William A. Campbell as the trainer.

[takeout]

Thanks, Ranch. Now I see what happened but I still don't understand how it happened.

I also got a hold of a paper DRF and they have four "Previously trained bys" in with the 10 running lines for that horse. Both TSN and the BRIS DRF PPs don't have ANY (!) so it looks like DRF has this one right. (Yeah, I was surprised too.)

Both times the horse went from MD to Del the name changed from William A. Campbell to Donald E. Campbell. The TSN & BRIS PPs didn't pick up the change either time the horse went up there.

So, Trackmaster, using data from EQ, has it right.

TSN, using data from EQ, has it wrong.

DRF, using data from EQ that is somehow magically transformed into DRF data, has it right.

BRIS, using DRF data, has it wrong.

No wonder I stay confused. And there seems to be no real consistency as to who will have this kind of stuff right or wrong the next time around. It's pretty much anybody's guess. How do BRIS & TSN, getting data from both EQ and DRF, manage to have it missing from BOTH of their PPs? I thought BRIS was the one that first came out with the "Previously trained bys". Go figure. :confused:

[Tom]

Theses files are cheap, and they offer niffty volume plans, too.
So now you want the data to be accurate too?
:confused:

[takeout]

Originally posted by Tom
So now you want the data to be accurate too?
:confused:
Sure wouldn't hurt.

Aside from obvious examples like the one that began this thread, I think the vast majority of us never know if we have used inaccurate data or not - no matter what we paid for it.

[BillW]

Does anyone know if those are 2 seperate operations?

Bill

[takeout]

Originally posted by BillW
Does anyone know if those are 2 seperate operations?
They sure used to be. I know they're owned by the same people and I think that someone once mentioned that they were right across the hall from each other. The reason I switched to TSN in the first place was because of the abundance of wrong trainer names (which probably produced an abundance of wrong trainer stats) in the BRIS and DRF data. Since then, it appears that much "melding" has gone on with the PPs of BRIS and TSN and I have no idea what's happening now. I just thought it odd that *both* of them missed that trainer switch.

I thought a lot of that stuff was automated but maybe not. I'm still wondering how that happened.

[BillW]

takeout,

What I was refering to was occasionally an asst. trainer is listed as trainer of record. The only case I can relate off the top of my head is that when Steve Asmussen is asked to take a vacation (by the stewards) his mother sometimes takes over the training duties. In this case a no transfer occurred and a prevoiusly trained by note would be inappropriate.

Bill

[takeout]

BillW,

Sorry about the mix up.

I don't really know if they are two different operations or not. From looking at the Form I assume that the two Campbells are family and one has a license in MD and the other in Del. Maybe the fact that they both have the same last name had something to do with it not getting picked up at BRIS and TSN?

[BillW]

Originally posted by takeout
BillW,

Sorry about the mix up.

I don't really know if they are two different operations or not. From looking at the Form I assume that the two Campbells are family and one has a license in MD and the other in Del. Maybe the fact that they both have the same last name had something to do with it not getting picked up at BRIS and TSN?

I saw that also, but being so close (an hour or 2 away) I thought of this possibility (One working for the other). Certainly if they are running their own seperate operations, family or not, noting a trainer switch would be appropriate.

Anybody here with connections to check this out?

Bill

[kenwoodallpromos]

Families of trainers in Ca are not too uncommon= Hess and Hess JR. I have even seen trainers with different last names switch-shipping horses back and forth. I take it as positive when someone very familiar with a track takes over a shipper's (legal) responsibility for the horse rather than an assistant running it in the trainer's name.

[takeout]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
I have even seen trainers with different last names switch-shipping horses back and forth.
Me too. I see a lot of them constantly ping-ponging horses back and forth. That reminds me, wasn't national licensing for trainers being considered at some point? Did anything ever happen with that? Sure would save a lot of previously trained by comments in the PPs if the only reason the horse was starting under a different trainer's name when shipping was because the real trainer didn't have a license there.

[kenwoodallpromos]

National racing license compact oooon Google is it!

[takeout]

Originally posted by BillW
I saw that also, but being so close (an hour or 2 away) I thought of this possibility (One working for the other). Certainly if they are running their own seperate operations, family or not, noting a trainer switch would be appropriate.

I've been informed that BRIS & TSN have been doing this on purpose. If the trainers have the same *last name* they haven't been putting in the previously trained bys. I asked them to please give this another look as it is very misleading when the trainer data doesn't match what the 'capper is seeing in the running lines. One can only assume on these occasions, as I did, that a mistake had been made in the data.

I think if any part of a trainer's name is different (whether shipping or not) then there should be a previously trained by in there even if it turns out to ultimately be the same outfit. After all, the different named trainer (first name) is the one getting credit for the win.

As far as I know, BRIS & TSN are the only ones doing this. Hopefully they will see fit to change it. The good news is that it is a rare occurrence.

[ranchwest]

It seems the data could be significantly skewed based on how common a last name is. That is rather short sighted.

[takeout]

Originally posted by ranchwest
It seems the data could be significantly skewed based on how common a last name is. That is rather short sighted.
Fortunately the proper trainer is getting credit for the wins. By proper I mean the one whose name the horse ran under when he won, regardless of whether that person was the *real* trainer of the horse or not. If data providers start guessing as to who the real trainer may have been, we're going to be in a lot of trouble data-wise.

They just need to make the data in the PPs match up so that it makes sense (adds up) for the 'capper. They can do that by putting in the previously trained bys when *any part* of a trainer's name is different than before and
Campbell, Donald E. is certainly different than
Campbell, William A.

All I was seeing was Campbell, William A., with no wins showing in his yearly record, while the horse showed a win in her running lines 6 months ago.