Dubai World Cup day

[gm10]

Looks like an excellent World Cup card. I'm not having any major bets, but here are my thoughts anyway.



Al Quzo sprint. Your guess is as good as mine. Eagle Regiment is a regular 5F monster and I have a few high ratings for him, so I'll take him. Secret Asset a nice longshot. Conditions will suit. The draw is a negative, but on the plus he's got an intelligent jockey riding him. Prohibit and Sole Power claims too. Great race to watch.

Golden Shaheen. If Giant Ryan brings his NY form, he has a good chance. Otherwise Lucky Nine looks a very decent price 12/1.

Duty Free. Great field. Really like this race. My selection is Dark Shadow. 20/1 on Dubawi Gold makes him of interest.

Sheema ... at American M/L odds, I would be backing Beaten Up (20/1!!!) and Treasure Beach (20/1). St Nic ... I wonder if he isn't better during autumn. Cirrus is a very tough, classy horse.

World Cup ... an interesting race. The quality is pretty good, certainly better than the BC Classic last year. The international dimension is there. The Tapeta is a very fair surface. Should be a fun race to watch. FWIW, I'm on Royal Delta. The 5lbs filly allowance could make the difference. I don't think that the surface is an issue for her. Nice race.

[olddaddy]

Anyone know why twinspires is taking rolling dds and xpressbet is not on the Dubai card?

[cj]

Is Todd Schrupp really going to keep pronouncing Godolphin as Go Dolphin?

[olddaddy]

Is Todd Schrupp really going to keep pronouncing Godolphin as Go Dolphin?

HRTV has the direct Dubai feed.

[cj]

Thanks, wasn't listed on my guide.

[Tom]

I took Sandagiyr at the odds. I like the winner, but 4-5.....not.
Off to a slow start.

I have to give Zanzamar (Race3) a shot at the price - won over the track two back, second off a long layoff, then ran in the all important prep card on March 10. Got a competitive figure.....exotic shot.

Opinion Poll looks good, as does Joshua Tree.

[Shelby]

Is Todd Schrupp really going to keep pronouncing Godolphin as Go Dolphin?

Yes. Sigh.

[olddaddy]

Im going to try to catch a far east horse today at a price so I'll go with the :1: in the 3rd.

[Wickel]

Exactly. I'm already irritated.

[FenceBored]

Stupid question: who's running the US pools? Need to know the takeout on the exacta.

[ten2oneormore]

Gold Cup--Opinion Poll and Fox Hunt match race.Maybe Barbican for a price

Derby--Like Daddy Long Legs(10-1).If he matured at all during his time off he has good chance with his stable mate taking the money.For a bomb I think Yang Tse Kiang looks like an overlay at 20-1.

Al Quoz--Monsieur Joe,Addictive Dream, and Nocturnal Affair are all 20-1 and think they have as good a chance as any.

Golden Shaheen--Krypton Factor is peaking at the right time to run down all the speed at 10-1.

Duty Free--I Like Cityscape at 12-1 but Green Destiny at 20-1 seems off even with the clunker on the wrong surface last time.

Sheema Classic--I agree with Beaten Up but seen him as low as 4-1 so don't think there is any chance at getting close to his ML.You can make a case for Bold Silvano getting back on turf at most likely better than 15-1 if you view his 2 races this year as fitness preps.

World Cup--Really hoping So You Think doesn't win.He has such a following and gets so much hype as if he is unbeatable every race.I'll try Zazou at 15-1 with Eishin Flash /Master Of Hounds.Capponi looks like the in form horse but he mimics Golden Sword of 2011.Looked really good against lesser but couldn't hang in the big one.

[olddaddy]

Horrible situation.

[lamboguy]

OIY VEY

[guckers]

I asked my wife if she liked Fox Hunt, she said no, it looks like he has weak legs... yikes.

[depalma113]

Two races two breakdowns.

So much for the bad evil dirt and drugs.

[Shelby]

Wow. This is terrible.

[PhantomOnTour]

They did the only thing they could and stopped the race.
Obviously the fallen horse was critically injured and could not be moved before they came around again.

Very sad to see.

[cj]

Ugly so far today, very ugly.

[olddaddy]

Very fortunate the breakdown did not affect other horses.

[Shelby]

I'm just sick :(

[Tom]

So much for statistics......does Drape add another installment to his series now? Two down on the BEST day of racing.....what is that rate per 1,000?

[Grits]

To be handicapping another track's card while only listening to the one running, at times, can be a blessing.

[cj]

Now these tracks are "organic"...really? I had to go back to TVG, the picture is MUCH better. This wasn't Shrupp, but the other guy, Simon Bray.

[affirmedny]

Now these tracks are "organic"...really? I had to go back to TVG, the picture is MUCH better. This wasn't Shrupp, but the other guy, Simon Bray.

If he says "conventional dirt" one more time I may blow my brains out.

[Tom]

Is there unconventional dirt?

Race 4 :6::8::9::10:

Really like the 9 in here at 12-1 right now.
May have run into a speed favoring track in last, but horses who run in the prep card do well. He has not run this far that I can see in the limited PPs, but I think he can get it based on his Tommy's for the distance. At 12-1, you can be forgiving.

[olddaddy]

Ill stick with my angle today, :5: in the 4th. The :1: was running very well in previous race.

[Shelby]

Sheesh, I wish Twinspires would refund my bet already.....

[PhantomOnTour]

Total stab...R4 gimme the :6: Mickdaam.
Prominent throughout...like the :9: Kinglet also

[ten2oneormore]

looks like Daddy Long Legs is washed out.

[ArlJim78]

I put some money on :3: and :8:

[depalma113]

So much for statistics......does Drape add another installment to his series now? Two down on the BEST day of racing.....what is that rate per 1,000?


38 per 1000, but who's counting.

[depalma113]

:4:
with
:2: :12:

[ten2oneormore]

guess it didn't matter

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm afraid I missed the third, but now hear they may re-run the race after the 9th? What happened?

[David-LV]

looks like Daddy Long Legs is washed out.

Washed out???
I guess it doesn't really matter.

_______
David-LV

[Shelby]

I'm afraid I missed the third, but now hear they may re-run the race after the 9th? What happened?

The :11: Fox Hunt ridden by De Sousa broke down on the outside of the pack. Horse passed away. They had to stop the race as they were coming around again because there was no way for the riders to avoid the horse that was still laying there.

Edited to say that De Sousa got up and is fine.

[cj]

I'm afraid I missed the third, but now hear they may re-run the race after the 9th? What happened?

The favorite broke down in the stretch the first time, and couldn't be moved before the horses would have come back around.

[uncbossfan]

Nice call on Derby! Hope you hit it hard.

Gold Cup--Opinion Poll and Fox Hunt match race.Maybe Barbican for a price

Derby--Like Daddy Long Legs(10-1).If he matured at all during his time off he has good chance with his stable mate taking the money.For a bomb I think Yang Tse Kiang looks like an overlay at 20-1.

Al Quoz--Monsieur Joe,Addictive Dream, and Nocturnal Affair are all 20-1 and think they have as good a chance as any.

Golden Shaheen--Krypton Factor is peaking at the right time to run down all the speed at 10-1.

Duty Free--I Like Cityscape at 12-1 but Green Destiny at 20-1 seems off even with the clunker on the wrong surface last time.

Sheema Classic--I agree with Beaten Up but seen him as low as 4-1 so don't think there is any chance at getting close to his ML.You can make a case for Bold Silvano getting back on turf at most likely better than 15-1 if you view his 2 races this year as fitness preps.

World Cup--Really hoping So You Think doesn't win.He has such a following and gets so much hype as if he is unbeatable every race.I'll try Zazou at 15-1 with Eishin Flash /Master Of Hounds.Capponi looks like the in form horse but he mimics Golden Sword of 2011.Looked really good against lesser but couldn't hang in the big one.

[PaceAdvantage]

Seems like this year is going to be unrelenting in terms of tragedy in the spotlight.

[Shelby]

Daddy Long Legs is trending on Twitter :)

[olddaddy]

Sheesh, I wish Twinspires would refund my bet already.....

Mine were refunded

[Shelby]

Mine were refunded

Thanks :) I just checked again and I was too. Phew :)

[olddaddy]

:4: :6: :13: in the 5th

[Tom]

Break downs on the safest surface in the world and among the best horses in the world. So much that tired argument by the Drapes of the world.

Meanwhile,

R5 :10:

Late money in big pools.....

[redshift1]

Daddy Long Legs is trending on Twitter :)

Looked better today than when I bet him in the BC Juvenile.

[nearco]

Break downs on the safest surface in the world and among the best horses in the world. So much that tired argument by the Drapes of the world.
.

Yeah, you won' t be getting a job as an actuary anytime soon.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, you won' t be getting a job as an actuary anytime soon.So actuarial science is the standard these days (especially among critics like PETA)? Don't make me laugh.

[olddaddy]

:12: My key of the day

[firstoffclaim]

What are you talking about? There is no such thing as a safe surface

[depalma113]

Who came in 2nd? I have the 15 under the 10, but TVG said the 6. How could the 15 not have come in 2nd?

Never mind, it was the 15.

[PaceAdvantage]

Who came in 2nd? I have the 15 under the 10, but TVG said the 6. How could the 15 not have come in 2nd?It was the 15 second...10-15-6

:10: - :15: Ex pays $76.20

[depalma113]

Thanks.

Got the :9: / :1: :12: in the next

[GaryG]

Golden Shaheen
:1: :5:

[ArlJim78]

:12: /:1: :7: :9: :11:
for the sprint

[Tom]

I'm going with the Factor....KRYPTON Factor, that is :5:

[boogazie]

Rocketman has only ever lost once on synthetics. Even though he's getting old I'll take a shot.

Win: :1: :12:
Exacta Box :1: :9: :12:

[Tom]

Golden Shaheen
:1: :5:

Gary, you basterd!
I saw your post and threw in the 1 for a last second exacta.
Guess we're warmed up for this afternoon now.....:cool:

[FiveWide]

I'm going with the Factor....KRYPTON Factor, that is :5:


Nice hit Tom :ThmbUp:


-Five

[Tom]

BTW, the winner was CJ's 4 rules horse with his converted RP numbers.
You know, that conversion that won't work........:D

[PaceAdvantage]

Good to see guys like Kieren Fallon getting yet another chance... :rolleyes:

[GaryG]

Gary, you basterd!
I saw your post and threw in the 1 for a last second exacta.
Guess we're warmed up for this afternoon now.....:cool:Those basterds...they are moving like a tremendous machine....

[netbet]

Krypton Factor is a very nice animal. Nice ride by Fallon didn't hurt.
The other Factor was no factor.

[castaway01]

I'm going with the Factor....KRYPTON Factor, that is :5:

Nice call at 8-1.

[olddaddy]

:7: :8: :9:

[GaryG]

:4: :7: :15: :9:

[Hoofless_Wonder]

Dubai Duty Free:

Seems odd that if :4: is the chalk at 2-1, odds would be lower on :8: and :9: since only a couple of lengths separate those three the last few races.....

Going with :8: , Portus Blendium, since it looks like he's also raced under the name of California Memory - so I'm sure that ringer will show up today.... :)

[Shelby]

LOVED the show! WOW. Quite a production.

[depalma113]

:4: / :9: :11:

[depalma113]

God I hate this coverage!

Was the 4 second?

[PaceAdvantage]

They're gonna rerun the 3rd race (Dubai Gold Cup) at 2:25pm...non-wagering race...

[ten2oneormore]

God I hate this coverage!

Was the 4 second?

Nah the 10-Mutahadee

[depalma113]

Nah the 10-Mutahadee

I need to get my eyes checked.

[depalma113]

:9: / :8: :10: in the next one.

[lamboguy]

I need to get my eyes checked. i can't see the numbers on the saddle cloth's either. i haven't cashed a race there ever in life

[guckers]

:8: :9: :5: for 9th

[gm10]

Gold Cup--Opinion Poll and Fox Hunt match race.Maybe Barbican for a price

Derby--Like Daddy Long Legs(10-1).If he matured at all during his time off he has good chance with his stable mate taking the money.For a bomb I think Yang Tse Kiang looks like an overlay at 20-1.

Al Quoz--Monsieur Joe,Addictive Dream, and Nocturnal Affair are all 20-1 and think they have as good a chance as any.

Golden Shaheen--Krypton Factor is peaking at the right time to run down all the speed at 10-1.

Duty Free--I Like Cityscape at 12-1 but Green Destiny at 20-1 seems off even with the clunker on the wrong surface last time.

Sheema Classic--I agree with Beaten Up but seen him as low as 4-1 so don't think there is any chance at getting close to his ML.You can make a case for Bold Silvano getting back on turf at most likely better than 15-1 if you view his 2 races this year as fitness preps.

World Cup--Really hoping So You Think doesn't win.He has such a following and gets so much hype as if he is unbeatable every race.I'll try Zazou at 15-1 with Eishin Flash /Master Of Hounds.Capponi looks like the in form horse but he mimics Golden Sword of 2011.Looked really good against lesser but couldn't hang in the big one.

I think you are the man to follow in the World Cup!!!

[stuball]

I am not very familiar with betting foreign races...I bet 2 horse to place in a
race and they came 2nd and 3rd. I got paid on both tickets. then I bet
Jackalberry cause I made some nice hits on Tackleberry last year.....
He finished 3rd at long odds...paid 12.60 on my place bet....place obviously
means something different over seas...LOL

:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :jump: :jump: :jump: :D

[gm10]

I am not very familiar with betting foreign races...I bet 2 horse to place in a
race and they came 2nd and 3rd. I got paid on both tickets. then I bet
Jackalberry cause I made some nice hits on Tackleberry last year.....
He finished 3rd at long odds...paid 12.60 on my place bet....place obviously
means something different over seas...LOL

:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :jump: :jump: :jump: :D

it depends on the type of race, the field size, who you're betting with ... the only rule is ... read the rules

[depalma113]

:4: / :2: :5:

[Tom]

The big one.......

:12::4::5::11:

[ArlJim78]

I'm also going with :3: Zazou for all the marbles. Those coming out of the races at Chantilly have been productive today.

[iceknight]

I am not very familiar with betting foreign races...I bet 2 horse to place in a
race and they came 2nd and 3rd. I got paid on both tickets. then I bet
Jackalberry cause I made some nice hits on Tackleberry last year.....
He finished 3rd at long odds...paid 12.60 on my place bet....place obviously
means something different over seas...LOL

:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :D :jump: :jump: :jump: :D

Place does not mean 2nd along there. It means Placed 2nd or placed 3rd. if you use expressebet, you can look at the probables - you will see that the "Show" line is empty.

[gm10]

Place does not mean 2nd along there. It means Placed 2nd or placed 3rd. if you use expressebet, you can look at the probables - you will see that the "Show" line is empty.

no it doesn't mean that
it can be 2, 3, 4 even 5

[philofbelloni]

:4: :2: :10:

[iceknight]

:8: :9: :5: for 9th

Great Call!! at sweeeeet odds

[Tom]

Holy cow, that jock could have fallen off at the wire!

[toussaud]

told you game on dude wanted no part of this track. he's a dirt horse. had no business in this race. and chantel's shitty ride did not help

so you think is just overrated. had every chance to win and just got out kicked

[philofbelloni]

Who won that??? Eric Montross???
Ha, Ha
This race never fails to have a 30-1 or higher win.
Dumb, dumb, dumb move by the jock.

[cj]

told you game on dude wanted no part of this track. he's a dirt horse. had no business in this race. and chantel's shitty ride did not help

so you think is just overrated. had every chance to win and just got out kicked

It was very predictable he would run poorly against this group on synthetics even though he has run well on it before.

[Grits]

Sheihk Mo really needed "mo money." Runs 1-2. :lol:

NEXT .... on to Gulfstream.

[Tom]

So, run the race again and LOSE TWO MORE HORSES!!!!

I thought turf and poly were so much safer than dirt!
What is the break down rate now for the World Cup?
I thought no drugs meant sounder horses?

'splain this one for me, Drape-boys.

Luck got canceled for three horses over a year's time.
Here we lost three in one race.

Guess we better cancel the World Cup.
Worst carnage day I can remember.

[depalma113]

Sad day for racing, yet one that really screws those with an agenda.

[usedtolovetvg]

Love the move by the jock. I guess if he falls off well... I remember when tennis was all prim and proper. No emotion, no color, no fans. Then along came Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe, boom one of the most popular sports. The same can be said about golf, remember Lee Trevino. Even figure skating for goodness sake. The masses don't buy the aristocratic attitude. Maybe, racing should get down and dirty and let the people have some fun. My idea of fun is certainly different from Frank Stronach's. It couldn't hurt.

[KirisClown]

e-gc4FeA8NM

[gm10]

So, run the race again and LOSE TWO MORE HORSES!!!!

I thought turf and poly were so much safer than dirt!
What is the break down rate now for the World Cup?
I thought no drugs meant sounder horses?

'splain this one for me, Drape-boys.

Luck got canceled for three horses over a year's time.
Here we lost three in one race.

Guess we better cancel the World Cup.
Worst carnage day I can remember.
They are much safer.

I didn't watch the races, where did they lose three horses?

[Tom]

Ran the race twice - lost one, then lost two more the second time.

[depalma113]

They are much safer.

They weren't today.

[v j stauffer]

Love the move by the jock. I guess if he falls off well... I remember when tennis was all prim and proper. No emotion, no color, no fans. Then along came Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe, boom one of the most popular sports. The same can be said about golf, remember Lee Trevino. Even figure skating for goodness sake. The masses don't buy the aristocratic attitude. Maybe, racing should get down and dirty and let the people have some fun. My idea of fun is certainly different from Frank Stronach's. It couldn't hurt.

No one is saying it's not a joy to watch the thrilled exuberance of a 19 year old.

However, unlike all the sports and examples you listed, those flamboyant characters were not competing in a sport where the players are literally responsible for each others lives.

It's cool until something happens and something will inevitably happen.

To make that ameturish move at that point of the race was simply put careless riding. A jock with the talent to win a race of this stature is also accomplished enough to know how dangerous what he did was.

At the end of a grueling mile and a quarter with both he and his mount tired just the slightest shift of weight could have spelled disaster. The horse could have ducked out from under him reacting to something he'd never experienced. Worse yet he could have had a bad weight shift when fatigued and injured himself. Whos's to say he didn't? His eqipment could have broken as well.

I'm pretty sure the Nick Notle character on Luck was based on Charlie Whittingham. Just whipping a horse at the wrong time cost the Irish Girl the mount on his good horse. Can you imagine how he would have reacted to that kind of selfishness?

Jockey's are responsible to take care of their mounts and fellow riders. That kid dodged a bullet and may again but it only takes once.

Cordero, Borel and especially Dettori have been very flamboyant and great for the game. But their histrionics have almost always been long after the race mostly out of harms way. Though, even Lanfraco's dismounts have caused some dangerous moments.

Hate to sound like a fuddy duddy. I feel as much passion about our game as anyone. For jockeys though that passion MUST take a backseat to safety first. Always.

He'd be in my office the next morning and looking at a $200 fine. Talk about peeing on a forest fire:)

[FenceBored]

So, run the race again and LOSE TWO MORE HORSES!!!!

I thought turf and poly were so much safer than dirt!
What is the break down rate now for the World Cup?
I thought no drugs meant sounder horses?

'splain this one for me, Drape-boys.

Luck got canceled for three horses over a year's time.
Here we lost three in one race.

Guess we better cancel the World Cup.
Worst carnage day I can remember.

You hear something more about Grand Vent than what I'm seeing?
But the re-run was also marred by death. Bronze Cannon (http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?race_id=551369&r_date=2012-03-31&horse_id=688007#topHorseTabs=horse_race_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form), trainedby Herman Brown, pulled-up and had to put down following a leg injury. Grand Vent, owned by Godolphin, was also pulled-up.
-- http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/gold-cup-opinion-poll-clings-on-for-dettori/1008929/top/
Let's not go all Drape and assume every pull-up is a fatality.

[firstoffclaim]

The Dubai racing club should be charged with murder, this is more than an outrage. I can never even look at that track again.

[gm10]

No one is saying it's not a joy to watch the thrilled exuberance of a 19 year old.

However, unlike all the sports and examples you listed, those flamboyant characters were not competing in a sport where the players are literally responsible for each others lives.

It's cool until something happens and something will inevitably happen.

To make that ameturish move at that point of the race was simply put careless riding. A jock with the talent to win a race of this stature is also accomplished enough to know how dangerous what he did was.

At the end of a grueling mile and a quarter with both he and his mount tired just the slightest shift of weight could have spelled disaster. The horse could have ducked out from under him reacting to something he'd never experienced. Worse yet he could have had a bad weight shift when fatigued and injured himself. Whos's to say he didn't? His eqipment could have broken as well.

I'm pretty sure the Nick Notle character on Luck was based on Charlie Whittingham. Just whipping a horse at the wrong time cost the Irish Girl the mount on his good horse. Can you imagine how he would have reacted to that kind of selfishness?

Jockey's are responsible to take care of their mounts and fellow riders. That kid dodged a bullet and may again but it only takes once.

Cordero, Borel and especially Dettori have been very flamboyant and great for the game. But their histrionics have almost always been long after the race mostly out of harms way. Though, even Lanfraco's dismounts have caused some dangerous moments.

Hate to sound like a fuddy duddy. I feel as much passion about our game as anyone. For jockeys though that passion MUST take a backseat to safety first. Always.

He'd be in my office the next morning and looking at a $200 fine. Talk about peeing on a forest fire:)

He did the same on Pour Moi at Epsom. I like it tbh. Most jockey's do a lot more dangerous things during a race than that.

[usedtolovetvg]

Fair enough V.J. But I wasn't talking about endangering lives. I was talking about things that are in vogue these days, like the patrons having fun or maybe a tattooed, smack-talking young jockey. I doubt that a 21 year-old's idea of fun would be the same as most of those in charge of racing. If we are to reach the next generation of horse player we have to put the game in their wheel house. And, I'm not talking Late DD. That was created by some old racing establishment types who think they know what's hip.

I, for one, enjoyed the enthusiasm of the young jock. I believe that kind of energy and fun should be nurtured not condemned. You would know better than me whether that was dangerous. I think racing should come up with a way to exploit an obvious personality not dampen his spirit.

[PaceAdvantage]

The Dubai racing club should be charged with murder, this is more than an outrage. I can never even look at that track again.I honestly don't even want to get into the kind of mindset that makes a post like this...but I guess I just have, haven't I? :eek:

[classhandicapper]

I'm still trying to figure out why Mott sent Royal Delta there. If it didn't have so much respect for his judgement, I would have made her 100-1 in that race.

I don't want to come off as negative because she's a very good filly with some upside, but her record is flattered by a perfect trip in the Black Eyed Susan and another perfect trip in the Alabama against fillies that wanted no part of 10F. IMHO, her only legitimately brilliant performance was in the Breeder's Cup (excellent that day). Her first race back this year was a bit of a disappointment too.

Why would you travel to the other side of the world to take on Grade 1 older males on a synthetic track when she doesn't have a single race in her PPs that made her a very likely winner, most of her races would get her totally buried, and she may not even be 100%?

There had to be a better spot than that without any potential downsides.

I heard she had a rough trip (didn't watch closely), but still. This was not a typical Mott move.

[classhandicapper]

Ran the race twice - lost one, then lost two more the second time.

Wow, that's really terrible. I shut off the feed after the big race and didn't even know that. There's going to be a lot of people second guessing that decision now.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow, that's really terrible. I shut off the feed after the big race and didn't even know that. There's going to be a lot of people second guessing that decision now.Not only that, some are calling it murder... :rolleyes:

[OTM Al]

I'm still trying to figure out why Mott sent Royal Delta there. If it wasn't that I have so much respect for his judgement, I would have made her 100-1 in that race.

I don't want to come off as negative because she's a very good filly with some upside, but her record is flattered by a perfect trip in the Black Eyed Susan and another perfect trip in the Alabama against fillies that wanted no part of 10F. IMHO, her only legitimately brilliant performance was in the Breeder's Cup (excellent that day). Her first race back this year was a bit of a disappointment.

Why would you travel to the other side of the world to take on Grade 1 older males on a synthetic track when she doesn't have a single race in her PPs that made her a very likely winner, most of them would get her totally buried, and she may not even be 100%?

I heard she had a rough trip (didn't watch closely), but still. This was not a typical Mott move.

She had a better chance than that and certainly could have hit the board. Had terrible traffic problems much of the race between horses, checking and shuffled almost all the way back and still was running on well at the end. Better than Game on Dude at any rate.

[Tom]

Let's not go all Drape and assume every pull-up is a fatality.

First of all, did I ever use any term other than bread down?
Secondly, my reporting is 100% more accurate than Drapes chart culling.

[gm10]

I'm still trying to figure out why Mott sent Royal Delta there. If it didn't have so much respect for his judgement, I would have made her 100-1 in that race.

I don't want to come off as negative because she's a very good filly with some upside, but her record is flattered by a perfect trip in the Black Eyed Susan and another perfect trip in the Alabama against fillies that wanted no part of 10F. IMHO, her only legitimately brilliant performance was in the Breeder's Cup (excellent that day). Her first race back this year was a bit of a disappointment too.

Why would you travel to the other side of the world to take on Grade 1 older males on a synthetic track when she doesn't have a single race in her PPs that made her a very likely winner, most of her races would get her totally buried, and she may not even be 100%?

There had to be a better spot than that without any potential downsides.

I heard she had a rough trip (didn't watch closely), but still. This was not a typical Mott move.

I have a lot of respect for your handicapping but I totally disagree with you on this one. She was bullied out of it at the crucial stage of a slowly run race, that's all you can say imo.

[Tom]

Myself, I gave GOD and RD a combined zero change of winning that race.
And I cashed on the Megaball last night, so it's not like I don't know a thing or two about gambling! (I got three big ones burning a hole in my pocket as we speak!):lol:

[gm10]

They weren't today.
Had a look at racingpost.com. It looks like there were TWO fatalities, both on the turf, one in the re-run. Don't want to minimize the death of two horses, but if anything this tells us that the race shouldn't have been re-run.

[PaceAdvantage]

Had a look at racingpost.com. It looks like there were TWO fatalities, both on the turf, one in the re-run. Don't want to minimize the death of two horses, but if anything this tells us that the race shouldn't have been re-run.I've said it before, and I'll say it again. If you're telling me that horses are this fragile, that this race should not have been run again (it wasn't really run the first time around, now was it?)

Then kill the sport entirely. Horses are obviously made out of glass and should not be racing. PETA is right.

[FenceBored]

First of all, did I ever use any term other than bread down?
Secondly, my reporting is 100% more accurate than Drapes chart culling.

1) Yes, Tom, you did:
Luck got canceled for three horses over a year's time.
Here we lost three in one race.
And:Ran the race twice - lost one, then lost two more the second time.
What does "lost" mean, here? Is "lost" equivalent to 'break down' or could someone take it to mean 'died' as in "we lost Uncle Vincent last month?" Given that it was three deaths that impacted Luck and that the 'one' in the first running was a death, it's not a stretch to think 'lost two more' meant 'two more died.'

2) No argument. :)

[v j stauffer]

Fair enough V.J. But I wasn't talking about endangering lives. I was talking about things that are in vogue these days, like the patrons having fun or maybe a tattooed, smack-talking young jockey. I doubt that a 21 year-old's idea of fun would be the same as most of those in charge of racing. If we are to reach the next generation of horse player we have to put the game in their wheel house. And, I'm not talking Late DD. That was created by some old racing establishment types who think they know what's hip.

I, for one, enjoyed the enthusiasm of the young jock. I believe that kind of energy and fun should be nurtured not condemned. You would know better than me whether that was dangerous. I think racing should come up with a way to exploit an obvious personality not dampen his spirit.

Completely agree. If we can make rockstars out of the jockeys that would be huge. I expect that some from one generation removed from me would embrace them. Very tough competition though with all the others out there both sports and media vying for the same exposure.

Had Chantal won that would have been a huge boost. Expect she would have made a somewhat national media tour. Wasn't to be.

Totally wearing two hats on this one. Promotional side of me says WOW we need that. Steward side much more conservative always looking to make a very dangerous sport safer.

Texted 4 fellow stewards the following question:

" Would you call in and or fine the jockey who rode the winner of the Dubai World Cup for his actions nearing the wire?"

2 replys so far.

" Definitely big yes"

" Yes, we would call him in the next morning. Probable fine"

Fellow fuddy duddy's I guess. Comes with the job I guess. Glad I have at least two hats.:)

[5k-claim]

Fellow fuddy duddy's I guess. Comes with the job I guess. Glad I have at least two hats.:)Watching the coverage, Mickael Barzalona lost his balance and jumped off his horse after pulling up... he held on to the reins and they gave him a leg-up so he could be back on the horse for the photo.

That is a ridiculous stunt to pull during a race, and any support of any blatantly careless riding is misguided. It would piss me off if I had a horse running close behind him. And I do not even have to call myself a "fuddy duddy" to say that.

I just hope that no horse is injured one day when they eventually have to run over Barzalona during a race.


.

[Tom]

it's not a stretch to think 'lost two more' meant 'two more died.'

But it is incorrect.

[usedtolovetvg]

Completely agree. If we can make rockstars out of the jockeys that would be huge. I expect that some from one generation removed from me would embrace them. Very tough competition though with all the others out there both sports and media vying for the same exposure.)

How many times was John McEnroe fined? How much did he care? I suspect that at least a few in the sport recognized his value.

How many time did my parents demand I cut my shoulder length hair in 60s? How many times have I told my daughter I hate her tattoos? Clearly, one of racing's problems is their stodgy attitude. I'm with you. There should be some jockeys that are bad boy rock stars. No one under 30 wants to see or follow someone who tows the line. It is their disdain of the Establishment that makes them popular. It's tough to blame them. Look at the mess we have put the world in.

It's nice to hear you wear two hats, me, it's a funny nose and glasses.

Btw, Mickael Barzalona's quote when asked about his celebration which mirrored the Epsom Derby celebration, he said: “I just had to. I had no choice.” Ya gotta love the passion!

[Tom]

How many times did McEnroe put another player's life in danger?

[Shelby]

I'm glad he has such passion....but it was a tad early. I wish he'd have waited a few more feet. Frankly, he scared me to death.

[Shelby]

How many times did McEnroe put another player's life in danger?

A few of the umpires probably felt threatened at times. :lol:

[FenceBored]

But it is incorrect.

How would anyone not living inside your head know that, Tom?

[usedtolovetvg]

How many times did McEnroe put another player's life in danger?

I'm not condoning his actions which I am told was very dangerous. Honestly, I do not know but I'll take your word for it. I am, however, celebrating his passion and enthusiasm. That is something that should be applauded not suffocated.

[Wickel]

You hear something more about Grand Vent than what I'm seeing?But the re-run was also marred by death. Bronze Cannon (http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home.sd?race_id=551369&r_date=2012-03-31&horse_id=688007#topHorseTabs=horse_race_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form), trainedby Herman Brown, pulled-up and had to put down following a leg injury. Grand Vent, owned by Godolphin, was also pulled-up.
-- http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/gold-cup-opinion-poll-clings-on-for-dettori/1008929/top/
Let's not go all Drape and assume every pull-up is a fatality.


Bloodhorse story says that in the rerun, Bronze Canyon broke left front and was put down, Grand Vent injured a hind leg and was sent to the vet hospital. In addition, Mikhail Glinka and Makani Bisty were eased. So that makes five horses that were affected. Incredible! My heart goes out to the owners and trainers. And thank God the jocks survived unscathed.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not condoning his actions which I am told was very dangerous.Why would you have to be "told" anything? Do you not have common sense? Eyes?

Are you not aware how skittish horses (especially thoroughbred race horses) can be? Do you think that the stunt that jockey pulled is something the particular horse he was riding was used to seeing/feeling? A rider jumping up and standing tall in the saddle, going nuts while the horse is running at top speed during a race...you think that is something that horse saw every day?

No, that's not a circus trick horse, so allow me to tell you that the horse was not used to something like that, and could have EASILY spooked in such a way as to kill himself, his rider, and/or other riders/horses in that race.

Do winning NASCAR or INDY drivers lean out of their windows and wave with both hands (ie. none on the wheel) at top speed before they cross the finish line?

[classhandicapper]

I have a lot of respect for your handicapping but I totally disagree with you on this one. She was bullied out of it at the crucial stage of a slowly run race, that's all you can say imo.

Thanks. It's mutual.

I didn't see the trip, but had she gotten a clean trip and run very well, all it would have done is reinforce my view that Mott is a great trainer with excellent judgement.

On her races as a 3YO filly, nothing is going to change my view that only one of her races was of truly high quality, even that one was not good enough to beat legitimate Grade 1 older males, and it looked like she came back well short of that peak a few weeks ago. IMO, all that made it a very tough spot.

[nijinski]

Had a look at racingpost.com. It looks like there were TWO fatalities, both on the turf, one in the re-run. Don't want to minimize the death of two horses, but if anything this tells us that the race shouldn't have been re-run.

All the horses were vetted and cleared . I don't think they made poor judgement , it was just unfortunate .

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't see the trip, but had she gotten a clear trip and run well, all it would have done is reinforce my view about Mott's typically excellent judgement.Trying to reconcile this with what you wrote earlier:I'm still trying to figure out why Mott sent Royal Delta there.

[5k-claim]

All the horses were vetted and cleared . I don't think they made poor judgement , it was just unfortunate .I do not necessarily disagree with you. I tend to think the day was plagued by misfortune, as well.

But I am not at all surprised that the horses were cleared by the vets. Why would they not be? Heck, they probably could have even had that second attempted race called off midway through, come back to the barns, waited a few hours, and then still vetted fine for a third attempt at the race.

Not sure that I would have wanted my horse to take a third crack at it, though. Even going back out for a second start on the day would have felt very, very odd. Not necessarily wrong, but just odd.

.

[cj]

I'm still trying to figure out why Mott sent Royal Delta there. If it didn't have so much respect for his judgement, I would have made her 100-1 in that race.



I agree, and would have said the same about EVERY American based horse in any of the races.

[cj]

A horse pulled up in the 2nd race as well, Western Aristocrat. Any news on him?

[classhandicapper]

Trying to reconcile this with what you wrote earlier:

1. Based on her PPs and her first race this year, I gave her very little chance of winning.

2. I consider Mott to be among the best trainers I have ever witnessed, somewhat conservative in how he spots horses, and having excellent judgement.

So I guess my feeling was that either he knew something I didn't or he was making a rare mistake. I guess given the trip the answer is inconclusive. :confused:

[Shelby]

A horse pulled up in the 2nd race as well, Western Aristocrat. Any news on him?

Twitter:


David Grening ‏ @DRFGrening (https://twitter.com/#%21/DRFGrening) Tom Ludt said Western Aristocrat is fine. Jockey thought he broke down. There is some swelling in ankle and a few cuts. Nothing significant

[Tom]

How would anyone not living inside your head know that, Tom?

Maybe one would have a clue if they had been reading the thread.
Don't worry, not having a clue is allowed here.

[cj]

I guess given the trip the answer is inconclusive. :confused:

You are being nice. It was a bad spot.

[usedtolovetvg]

Why would you have to be "told" anything? Do you not have common sense? Eyes?

I do know I see a lot more dangerous things in almost every race. I also know that in many workouts, the exercise rider or jockey is standing straight up in the irons. Was it dumb? Probably.His horse didn't die and there was no incident, just like the other time he did it. Cut him some slack he's young. You're supposed to do stupid things when you're young. It was born out of his love of the sport. He is racing's future. Guide him don't handcuff him. If racing is to attract a younger generation it will be because of role models like him, not old fogies like me.

[PaceAdvantage]

Guide him don't handcuff him.Is this a thinly veiled reference to the movie Superbad? :lol:

[usedtolovetvg]

Is this a thinly veiled reference to the movie Superbad? :lol:

Not my cup of tea but I must say I like Jonah Hill much better as a fat stoner instead of a thin serious guy.

[Grits]

1. Based on her PPs and her first race this year, I gave her very little chance of winning.

2. I consider Mott to be among the best trainers I have ever witnessed, somewhat conservative in how he spots horses, and having excellent judgement.

So I guess my feeling was that either he knew something I didn't or he was making a rare mistake. I guess given the trip the answer is inconclusive. :confused:

Didn't Royal Delta's owner pay about 8.5 million for her at the Keeneland November Sale? If so, and you were her trainer, would you not possibly, as the old saying goes, "blow a little smoke up your owner's butt"?

Maybe that new owner will get it all back when she becomes a broodmare.

[PaceAdvantage]

Didn't Royal Delta's owner pay about 8.5 million for her at the Keeneland November Sale? If so, and you were her trainer, would you not possibly, as the old saying goes, "blow a little smoke up your owner's butt"?I think Mott saw this for what it was. A relatively uninspiring group of horses and a monster purse, where even if she doesn't win, she has a chance at banking some serious coin.

So why not take the shot?

It's good to see a little Lukas in Mott every now and then...

[Grits]

I regret repeating the saying. Its crude.

There's Lukas in all of us. If not, life would be pretty boring.

[nijinski]

Mott still savours his first trip there with Cigar.That was huge and it was during Cigar's long winning streak.

[johnhannibalsmith]

No one is saying it's not a joy to watch the thrilled exuberance of a 19 year old.

However, unlike all the sports and examples you listed, those flamboyant characters were not competing in a sport where the players are literally responsible for each others lives.

It's cool until something happens and something will inevitably happen.

To make that ameturish move at that point of the race was simply put careless riding. A jock with the talent to win a race of this stature is also accomplished enough to know how dangerous what he did was.

At the end of a grueling mile and a quarter with both he and his mount tired just the slightest shift of weight could have spelled disaster. The horse could have ducked out from under him reacting to something he'd never experienced. Worse yet he could have had a bad weight shift when fatigued and injured himself. Whos's to say he didn't? His eqipment could have broken as well.

I'm pretty sure the Nick Notle character on Luck was based on Charlie Whittingham. Just whipping a horse at the wrong time cost the Irish Girl the mount on his good horse. Can you imagine how he would have reacted to that kind of selfishness?

Jockey's are responsible to take care of their mounts and fellow riders. That kid dodged a bullet and may again but it only takes once.

Cordero, Borel and especially Dettori have been very flamboyant and great for the game. But their histrionics have almost always been long after the race mostly out of harms way. Though, even Lanfraco's dismounts have caused some dangerous moments.

Hate to sound like a fuddy duddy. I feel as much passion about our game as anyone. For jockeys though that passion MUST take a backseat to safety first. Always.

He'd be in my office the next morning and looking at a $200 fine. Talk about peeing on a forest fire:)

Sharp post.

[iceknight]

(it wasn't really run the first time around, now was it?)

Then kill the sport entirely. Horses are obviously made out of glass and should not be racing. PETA is right.

Check the replay of the first run of that race: except for Fox Hunt (who went at ~33 sec), the other horses were RACING... for almost a third or more of the race distance. Having had them run at a good clip already, asking them to go out and RACE again for the marathon 2 mile just a few hours later, is a little too much to ask for, isn't it? A sharp workout of 4F or so and then a full race few hours later - wow!

There is a big difference between a false start and half run race.

[FenceBored]

Maybe one would have a clue if they had been reading the thread.
Don't worry, not having a clue is allowed here.

:rolleyes: I've been reading your posts for years.

[FenceBored]

And then there were three.GRAND VENT has become the third victim of the ill-starred Dubai Gold Cup at Meydan.

The Godolphin stayer was pulled-up in Saturday night's race, which was restaged after being declared void when stablemate Fox Hunt (http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home_popup.sd?horse_id=747754#topHorseTabs=h orse_race_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form) suffered a fatal injury at the top of the straight.
-- http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/simon-crisford-grand-vent-put-down-after-sustaining-leg-injury/1009185/top/

[Tom]

:rolleyes: I've been reading your posts for years.

I am available on Cliff Notes,if that helps.

[FenceBored]

I am available on Cliff Notes,if that helps.

I saw you on a old episode of America's Funniest home Videos last night. It's the one where the video shows you throwing a shovel full of snow in your sister's face. And when your Dad immediately asks why you did it you reply, "I didn't do it." :D

Some things never change. Belated congrats on the $10k prize.