Death and Disarray at Americas Racetracks

[aharon5741]

I would love to hear what the community has to say on this investigative piece from the NY times. Personally I didn't know that New Mexico was such a standout in incidents involving both horses and riders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks.html

[FenceBored]

Interesting results. It's all there in their chart comment based data.

Did you know that while cheaper claiming races are more dangerous, Finger Lakes is the safest thoroughbred track in NY? Next thing you know they'll say Saratoga must be the worst, right?

Incidents per 1,000 starters at New York tracks:

5.5 Saratoga
5.3 Aqueduct
4.8 Belmont Park
2.5 Finger Lakes


Source: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/24/us/for-horse-and-jockey-risks-vary.html

:faint:

[bigmack]

Racing has a new PR director. Dr. R.Arthur.

“It’s hard to justify how many horses we go through,” said Dr. Rick Arthur, the equine medical director for the California Racing Board. “In humans you never see someone snap their leg off running in the Olympics. But you see it in horse racing.”

[FenceBored]

For the alternate view here's the link to the Equine Injury Database data on Saratoga's Racing fatalities over the past three seasons:

http://jockeyclub.com/pdfs/eid/_Saratoga.pdf

Summary (fatalities per 1,000 starters):
2009: 0.98
2010: 1.52
2011: 0.93

[FantasticDan]

It should be noted that those numbers the NYT estimates include breakdowns and "signs of injury" culled from racing reports, vs confirmed fatalities in the EID report. So it's not surprising there's a disparity.

[gm10]

Racing in the US is just going to continue to plummet to its own death as long as it doesn't clean up its act. You can make up any argument you like, but in the end the simple fact is that the use of drugs leads to more breakdowns, and every breakdown is a little disaster for the sport. One year of little disasters is merely a blip on the bottom line. 20 years of these little disasters form a major turn-off for entire generations of potential fans.

[Delawaretrainer]

Some breakdowns are inevitable. Olympic athletes aren't being steered with over 100 lbs on their backs at high speed. Nice horses from nice barns break down.

However, I would like to see the stats on cheap claimers vs. higher level horses. Trainers enter compromised horses hoping they get claimed all the time and these types should not consider themselves true horseman...... Maybe a change to the claiming rules (breakdown=no money) would help.

Anyone that has a problem with this is part of the problem.

[Wingtips]

However, I would like to see the stats on cheap claimers vs. higher level horses. Trainers enter compromised horses hoping they get claimed all the time and these types should not consider themselves true horseman...... Maybe a change to the claiming rules (breakdown=no money) would help.

Per the graph on the right side of the article:


Claiming price Incidents/1,000 starts

$0 to $5,000 6.5
$5,000 to $7,500 6.1
$7,500 to $20,000 4.9
> $20,000 4.3
Non-claiming 4.5

[JustRalph]

Devastating article

[Wingtips]

When is part 2?

[firstoffclaim]

Devastating article

Right on the mark, just an awful indictment of racing

[MightBeSosa]

Racing has a new PR director. Dr. R.Arthur.

Quote:
“It’s hard to justify how many horses we go through,” said Dr. Rick Arthur, the equine medical director for the California Racing Board. “In humans you never see someone snap their leg off running in the Olympics. But you see it in horse racing.”

Yeah, but a few years ago a weight lifter dislocated his shoulder and it looked even worse than snapping a leg.

[jdhanover]

How about how many baseball pitchers go thru Tommy John surgery or never make it out of the minors due to injury? Or the concussions and other injuries football players get?

Granted they don't die (and it is tragic when horses do) but athletes get hurt.

Cleaning up the drugs would be a big step forward....but the whole sport seems to need a clean up that i doubt will happen.

[PaceAdvantage]

Devastating articleI'm inclined to agree.

[nijinski]

Racing has a new PR director. Dr. R.Arthur.

When he spoke out during the "Refinery" case , I stopped taking hm seriously .

[Grits]

When posting the link earlier this week concerning adjustments that NYRA is making I had no idea this NYT piece was forthcoming. Joe Drape has been an award winning, highly respected journalist for many years. He has a tremendous passion for this sport and has covered it well. One can understand that this was extremely difficult for him and his co-writers to work on. The report has been released only a few hours and the term, "Pulitzer" has been suggested several times, already. The comments that follow it are abundant. So, how will all of this be received by the industry and the public?

(a)The article may be the one published work that serves to motivate racing's governing bodies, its trainers, owners, vets, etc, to correct that which is, and has been, wrong for many years. To begin to work together, nationwide, allowing best practices to be implemented that will benefit, more certainly, the horses. Practices and regulations that will benefit all who are involved in the industry. And too, devise rulings that will cull those who can't comply.

(b) The article may be what serves as the lone preemptive strike that launches the death of thoroughbred racing and wagering.

How long can we believe a sport is going to remain viable, appeal to the public, to commercial interests who provide televised coverage of its premier events? The sport's face of dysfunction is so self serving, so crooked, so wrought with problems of drugs and greed it lands, not only between the covers of trade publications each week, worse, its now featured, horrifically, in one of the nation's most successful news publications.

We live in a nation that has had no qualms --none whatsoever-- about putting honest, hard working people out of work. It has had no problem allowing its industries to go overseas, paying workers to do jobs for nothing in comparison to wages paid prior to outsourcing.

It IS devastating. Unfortunately, you industry folk be damned, this is a nation that won't care about your job. Lord, knows Congress won't; they can turn on a dime. Ugliness and secrets aren't popular when allowed out from under the bed. (Congress is kinda funny that way, though they're pros at ugly!) If those in the countless "front office kingdoms of racing", quibbling and covering, had used their time more wisely, those of us who love thoroughbreds, may not have found our sport exposed in the New York Times in what may well become, Horseracing Hell.

[depalma113]

Racing has a new PR director. Dr. R.Arthur.

I've seen plenty of athletes legs snap when running at high speed. The ACL and MCL are not designed to take the kind of punishment athletes give it. The only difference is humans can survive on their own after a leg snaps, horses will eventually die from their injuries.

[depalma113]

I would love to hear what the community has to say on this investigative piece from the NY times. Personally I didn't know that New Mexico was such a standout in incidents involving both horses and riders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks.html


By the way, who reads the New York Times anymore?

[castaway01]

How about how many baseball pitchers go thru Tommy John surgery or never make it out of the minors due to injury? Or the concussions and other injuries football players get?

Granted they don't die (and it is tragic when horses do) but athletes get hurt.

Cleaning up the drugs would be a big step forward....but the whole sport seems to need a clean up that i doubt will happen.

The difference being, of course, that the human athletes had a choice in participating in those athletic events and to take any drugs they used to enhance performance while the horses did not.

I don't want to take this off topic, but I will add that the NFL has ignored the brutal impact the game has had on its players (who have a lifespan 20 years shorter than the average man) and is currently scrambling to protect itself from class-action lawsuits by former players that will be coming. That's why they came down so hard on the Saints with the bounty incident---they're now trying to look as if they care.

Still, i

[nijinski]

I have to say people like Maggi Moss and Earle Mack are doing there part .

After dealing with the W Va and Pa commisions they sent faxes to in an
effort to keep a nine year old with a bad ankle from racing . He recieved a
a decline fo W. Va, and no response from Pa . Mack finally purchased the horse from the bum who got him for a grand. He must have had to give him a great deal more.
It's a very involved story that has been covered by Paulick and thank goodness there's a good ending .

We need more owners and breeders to take on that responsibility. Many can afford to .

Rescues (not Peta) should be represented on the backstretch with open communication to the commissions . Canter has been working very hard to keep at risk horses safe as well as many others . They are visiting barns.

The sport took a blow when the kill buyers that parked at the tracks were exposed on on the tube . This new report has the potential to air as well.
It's a horror that needs to be remedied immediately.

[Grits]

By the way, who reads the New York Times anymore?

Maybe more than you may realize, certainly as far as the online version rather than the hard copy goes. So, I wouldn't necessarily count on this one being insignificant. Too, when network news programming picks up on what print journalists have already rolled out, its seldom pretty.

Read how many comments the story's gathered since its release last night. Better yet, read the tone of the comments. Readers, if not vehemently calling for a ban, are writing that they won't ever go to a racetrack again. Even some owners have commented that they "didn't know it was this bad", they are getting out of the sport. A few, hope for change and for the sport to "get its act together".

The report IS devastating for the game. And I don't think it will go away quietly. This isn't a bunch of nut cases at PETA. Far from it.

[lamboguy]

i just saw the front page of the NEW YORK TIMES this morning. it looks like there was a problem with breakdowns in RUIDOSO PARK in NEW MEXICO. i was going to buy the paper, but the lady wanted $7 and i decided against buying it.

the headlines did not sound to favorable to horse racing and slot machines.

[Canarsie]

The need for a national commissioner with some real backbone is stronger than ever. The problem is most states who have racing would decline to become part of it.

If it ever did happen it would be nice to see independent people devising strategies and rules that are good for the owners, breeders, patrons and so on.

That's what Christie did in NJ with his commission. While I originally opposed what they wrote it turned out to be very positive.

[Robert Goren]

Racing has a problem. We all know that. Instead of addressing the problem, at least some of the posters attack the messenger. That will be the industry responce too. The last thing the industry is a PR person. It needs people inside the industry to step up and address the problem. I doubt that will happen since they have failed to address any of the other myriad of problems that the industry faces.

[depalma113]

Racing has a problem. We all know that. Instead of addressing the problem, at least some of the posters attack the messenger. That will be the industry responce too. The last thing the industry is a PR person. It needs people inside the industry to step up and address the problem. I doubt that will happen since they have failed to address any of the other myriad of problems that the industry faces.

The messenger needs to be attacked. It was a hit piece and not journalism. The writer exploited a bad situation in New Mexico and than extrapolated it to the entire industry throughout the country. Rather than showing the problem in one state, a state that lacks regulation and enforcement, the writer sets his sights on the entire sport.

Did they run their computer analysis without the data from New Mexico? My guess is they didn't. When five of the six worst offenders are in one state, that one state has a problem. Had they included in their story that they had run the data without New Mexico and the results were the same, than they have a legitimate argument. I doubt the data would support that result.

Last year a 3 year-old died at the OBS June sale. It was the only fatality during the 2 day under tack show. Nearly 600 horses worked out and one had a heart attack and died on the track. PETA ambushed OBS based on that one horse. Just as The New York Times is ambushing the entire racing industry because of one jurisdiction. It sensationalized one incident and ignored the hundreds of times the racing goes off without a problem.

Anyone who writes that "race officials have always done their best to hide fatal breakdowns" and than sites a screen used to keep the public from seeing a horse being euthanized, has an agenda. Those same screens are used on highways all across America when fatal car accidents occur. It is not some sinister plot.

[FenceBored]

Racing has a problem. We all know that. Instead of addressing the problem, at least some of the posters attack the messenger. That will be the industry responce too. The last thing the industry is a PR person. It needs people inside the industry to step up and address the problem. I doubt that will happen since they have failed to address any of the other myriad of problems that the industry faces.

Yes, the industry needs to step up and address the problems. But, in order to address the problems you have to know what exactly the problems are, and how extensive. This article doesn't help answer those questions.

The data analysis is shoddy at best. Does anyone really believe that Finger Lakes is safer than Saratoga? Maybe the chart caller at Saratoga makes note of things the one at Finger Lakes doesn't see as worth mentioning. In that case, the methodology of the NYT analysis actually rewards the behavior it derides.

Last year at the track, Dr. Ohlinger counted 63 dead horses. That, she said, is more than double the fatalities of five years earlier.
Don't have the number of starters at Finger Lakes in 2011 right to hand, but the figure for 2010 was 11,167. If, as we are expected to assume, those 63 horses reflected racing fatalities and the number of starters in 2011 was roughtly the same as 2010 that would be over a 5.50 per thousand starters fatality rate. But, our friends at the Times tell us that Finger Lakes has a 2.5 per thousand INJURY not just fatality rate. One of these things is definitely not like the other.

[usedtolovetvg]

While there are too many bad stories out there involving racing, there are a lot of good ones. Racing doesn't have the leadership to deal with the issues nor does it have credible marketing organization to tell the good things that racing does and defend itself against the bad. The public perception is rich people and degenerates but most of us lie somewhere in the middle. The industry is like a punching bag with no defense. Sort of like George Chuvalo when he fought Muhammad Ali.

[lamboguy]

The need for a national commissioner with some real backbone is stronger than ever. The problem is most states who have racing would decline to become part of it.

If it ever did happen it would be nice to see independent people devising strategies and rules that are good for the owners, breeders, patrons and so on.

That's what Christie did in NJ with his commission. While I originally opposed what they wrote it turned out to be very positive.
its a great idea, but it will never happen because there are to many states that want their fingers in the game. but that doesn't mean that racetracks along with the rest of the industry get together to come up with rules that will address the heart and sole of the game.

in my 40 years of racing horses, i have had 2 breakdowns in a race. it is the very worst feeling you can possibly have as a trainer and an owner. one breakdown was due to a bad step on a turf course, the other one was my fault and if i knew ahead of time would have been prevented. it was a young horse that my trainer trained with high dosages of bute all the time, i didn't find out about the bute until after he was put down.

today, i no longer have high profile trainers and stay on top of every single horse every single day. if a trainer does not have the time for me, i take the horse away from him. i probably won't win to many big races with the trainers that i have, but my mind is at ease that i am not abusing any one of these very precious lives and risking them for the sake of making money.

[FenceBored]

Anyone who writes that "race officials have always done their best to hide fatal breakdowns" and than sites a screen used to keep the public from seeing a horse being euthanized, has an agenda. Those same screens are used on highways all across America when fatal car accidents occur. It is not some sinister plot.

To be fair to the NYT writers, there is some truth to that. The Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database was started with track specific data withheld (the only way they could get buy-in) and even with the latest releases of limited track data most tracks choose not to have their's released. Also, on another board (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showpost.php?p=848157&postcount=6), there's a trainer arguing that for the good of the industry the public shouldn't be given any injury or medication data.

[Robert Goren]

Even the NY last week admitted they had a problem in a around about way when they moved from the inner track early, restructured the purse schedule and was raising their bottom claiming prices. This is not a problem limited to New Mexico. It is problem in a lot of places and it is only getting worse. No amount of pretending that it is only a New Mexico problem is going to change the facts that too many horses are racing are a break down waiting to happen. It maybe worse at small tracks, but as this winter showed, big name tracks aren't immune.

[Dahoss9698]

Joe Drape has been an award winning, highly respected journalist for many years. He has a tremendous passion for this sport and has covered it well.

He has?

If hit and run pieces that paint the sport he has "tremendous passion" for in a terrible light while getting some of the facts correct is covering it well...then yeah, he's great. :rolleyes:

[Dahoss9698]

Even the NY last week admitted they had a problem in a around about way when they moved from the inner track early, restructured the purse schedule and was raising their bottom claiming prices.

Don't ever let the facts get in the way of something you write.

[Tom]

How many articles does the NY Times print about racing in a year?
How many that are not hit and run articles?

The only animal the Times is good for is fish - as in wrapping them in it.

[Forego]

While there are too many bad stories out there involving racing, there are a lot of good ones. Racing doesn't have the leadership to deal with the issues nor does it have credible marketing organization to tell the good things that racing does and defend itself against the bad. The public perception is rich people and degenerates but most of us lie somewhere in the middle. The industry is like a punching bag with no defense. Sort of like George Chuvalo when he fought Muhammad Ali.


Absolutely right, on so many levels!

Within days, racing has taken more of a 1-2 punch than even Ali could have delivered to Chuvalo...LUCK (which, to your point, was largely about rich people and degenerates) and these NY Times pieces.

Racing has no ability to be reactive, let alone proactive. And the new efforts they are making, which they are basing on McKinsey, seem dubious at best.

Jockey Club, for some reason, feels the Spiral Stakes and the Bourbonette Oaks are races which must be on national TV. So between air time and production costs, that costs 200,000? $300,000? On top of that, how much does Jockey Club pay Cornett to produce those cheezy spots?

How does any of that change the conversation? How does any of that, in any way, impact the public's negative perception of racing? Wouldn't Jockey Club's money be much better spent to get out in front of all this? To, as you correctly suggest, not only tell the good things but also defend racing against the bad?

[OTM Al]

It should be noted that those numbers the NYT estimates include breakdowns and "signs of injury" culled from racing reports, vs confirmed fatalities in the EID report. So it's not surprising there's a disparity.

It's going to skew funny at the very good tracks because of this. Horses are worth a lot more money there so any suspicion of something off they will van the horse as a precaution. At cheap tracks with cheap horses, they are going to give them a good hose down and walk them off. A year or two ago there were 2 fatalities at Saratoga the whole meet. One on the turf as a result of a heart attack and the other was a hrse that flipped and cracked his skull in the paddock, which means that one never even made their report.

[Grits]

Good reporters like Joe Drape have the skill to investigate and expose problems, dealing with the good and the bad while covering and celebrating all sports events. He's been sports reporter (horseracing) for the Times for over 12 years--Triple Crown, Breeders' Cup, etc. Plus, he's authored books on the sport and won Eclipse Awards for his writing. One of his books, "The Black Maestro, The Epic Life of an American Legend", the story of jockey, Jimmy Winkfield is in my den bookcase. Fine book!

Some of us may not be fond of this particular report, as its quite sordid--still, the summation that Drape is "hit and run," is more than a tad off the mark. This may be a good time for the reminder, "don't shoot the messenger". Changes are long overdue as everyone knows.

Here, one who is paid to write, paid to investigate, has brought out into the open the problems, particularly drugs, that this crowd has alluded to and bounced back and forth for 10 years. And you guys claim he's composed a "hit and run" piece? Sorry, suck it up and deal with it. Otherwise, keep bitching along the lines of status quo.

[Robert Goren]

Don't ever let the facts get in the way of something you write.So which one of those thing I listed didn't NYRA do. Or are you the person in the world who believes that the rash of break downs this winter had nothing to do with their actions? Or maybe you have some other explaination for their actions. Even the governor appointed a task force to investigate the rash of break downs.

[FenceBored]

Even the NY last week admitted they had a problem in a around about way when they moved from the inner track early, restructured the purse schedule and was raising their bottom claiming prices.

Don't ever let the facts get in the way of something you write.

He made three statements that can be checked:


"they moved from the inner track early"
"restructured the purse schedule"
"raising their bottom claiming prices"
Well, according to this article (http://www.drf.com/news/aqueduct-nyra-adjust-bottom-claim-level-purses-following-breakdowns) at DRF, NYRA is:


"However, NYRA has decided to move racing to the main track beginning Wednesday, two weeks earlier than scheduled."
" the head of the association said Friday that purses will be cut for lower-level claiming races beginning April 4."
"Also, beginning April 4, the bottom claiming level will be raised from $7,500 to $10,000. At Belmont, which opens April 27, the bottom will likely rise to $12,500."
So what was he factually wrong about?

[Delawaretrainer]

Depending on the track, I feel like most trainers really do care about the welfare of their horses. There are always those that treat them as a number, especially at the new factory style shedrows of the supertrainers.

I also feel like violations are swept under the rug because it is bad for PR. You see a low level trainer start batting 35% wins for a while, then it stops all of a sudden. Almost as if they were found out. Of course no one is going to be shouting from the rooftops that they caught the guy because it just proves to everyone something was going on.

[Jeff P]

Read the comments from the general public beneath this (IMHO devastating) article. Then read some of the comments about the article posted around the web by people with close ties to racing.

For a reality check, compare the two.

One of the biggest problems racing faces is the huge disconnect between the way racing's decision makers see things vs. the way the general public (including the overwhelming majority of horseplayers) see things.

Must... stick... to... the... status... quo... even... if... it... kills... us.


-jp

.

[jognlope]

Applaud this article, even though it focuses on the worst tracks, as it should really. That's so true about Finger Lakes. I have never seen a breakdown when I tune in now and then. Awhile ago I wrote the track manager and thanked him for that retirement facility there, really applauded him. He was a humble sort, wrote back a humble sort of answer.

[acorn54]

the powers-that-be in the racing industry are just like the politicians of this country, they are the last ones to find out what needs to be done to make this sport grow. i just hope they catch on before horseracing becomes a thing of the past.

[Robert Fischer]

as racing consolidates, grows, and does more with mass media, we need to control the media and it has to be an industry of it's own.

Otherwise outsiders will control the media for their own personal gain.

[JustRalph]

Now on the front page at MSNBC website

[JustRalph]

as racing consolidates, grows, and does more with mass media, we need to control the media and it has to be an industry of it's own.

Otherwise outsiders will control the media for their own personal gain.

As has been well established...........there is no horse racing media. Very little anyway. Just complicit fans it seems.

Horse racing is going to find out this week what it's like to have a real media policing it..............

I bet Brian Williams or someone does something on this on a network news show this week. The Times has a long reach.............

This week may spell the end or a new beginning for horse racing. Based on past experiences with the leadership of the sport, I am not optimistic


http://politics.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/25/10852935-mangled-horses-maimed-jockeys-death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks#comments

[Grits]

Print does the leg work. The talking heads are too busy doing just that--talking. Didn't take long for this one to be picked up.

Don't mean to sound like gloom and doom, but still believe we're getting ready to be welcomed to Horseracing Hell.

[Robert Fischer]

As has been well established...........there is no horse racing media. Very little anyway. Just complicit fans it seems.

Horse racing is going to find out this week what it's like to have a real media policing it..............

I bet Brian Williams or someone does something on this on a network news show this week. The Times has a long reach.............

This week may spell the end or a new beginning for horse racing. Based on past experiences with the leadership of the sport, I am not optimistic


http://politics.newsvine.com/_news/2012/03/25/10852935-mangled-horses-maimed-jockeys-death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks#comments

agree.

[appistappis]

While there are too many bad stories out there involving racing, there are a lot of good ones. Racing doesn't have the leadership to deal with the issues nor does it have credible marketing organization to tell the good things that racing does and defend itself against the bad. The public perception is rich people and degenerates but most of us lie somewhere in the middle. The industry is like a punching bag with no defense. Sort of like George Chuvalo when he fought Muhammad Ali.


As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospitol, georgie went out drinking.

[lansdale]

I realize that this NY Times piece has been linked in another thread, but I think it's important enough to deserve its own thread. I've excerpted what seemed to be to be some of the most significant findings. I think it's worth keeping in mind that the stats provided herein are doubtless more accurate than any of those provided by the profoundly corrupt and self-serving racing industry. One of the reasons I'm happy to see this piece is that I've been amazed by the hypocritical overreaction from many of the horseplayers on this site over the horseraces that died during the shooting of the HBO series 'Luck', as though the average 1200 thoroughbreds that die in th U.S. annually were doing something other than simply, like television, providing entertainment.


"On average, 24 horses die each week at racetracks across America. Many are inexpensive horses racing with little regulatory protection in pursuit of bigger and bigger prizes. These deaths often go unexamined, the bodies shipped to rendering plants and landfills rather than to pathologists who might have discovered why the horses broke down.
In 2008, after a Kentucky Derby horse, Eight Belles (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/eight_belles_race_horse/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), broke two ankles on national television and was euthanized, Congress extracted promises from the racing industry to make its sport safer. While safety measures like bans on anabolic steroids have been enacted, assessing their impact has been difficult because many tracks do not keep accurate accident figures or will not release them.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/25/us/death-and-disarray-at-americas-racetracks.html?_r=1&hpw

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/24/us/for-horse-and-jockey-risks-vary.html

[Hambletonian]

We are all to blame...few of us will give up any advantage in owning or betting, even if it is for the long term benefit of the sport.

If we can make money, we are happy, generally. Horse racing has disintegrated into a sport of misfits, criminals, heartles b&stards and the like.
Considering how little money most tracks make from live racing...maybe it is time to come down hard.

Quarter horse racing is even seedier then tbreds. More horses bred, and I bet more horses knocked off. Anyone have statistics on the number of career starts for QHs as opposed to TBs? I am guessing it is lower. I am not surprised the the capital of quarter horse racing in the US is the center of this issue. It was not that many years ago when no less than two horses broke their legs during the All American Futurity...couldn't even make it 440 yards with four intact legs.

Horse racing has become all about gambling...but running a track is a terrible way to extract money from the public through gambling. It is all about people on their computers now, betting races from across the country. Nobody goes to the races anymore...and wait and see how many tracks will still be around in 5 years. Once the public accepts slots/casino gambling off track...wait and see how many racinos crumble.

Don't blame the NY Times....blame yourself. We have all allowed it to get to this point, even major league baseball manned up and took the heat by making an example of the steroid abusers. Too bad that the racing industry is dominated by self interested dim bulbs.

[Kirbyjrt]

After reading the "Luck" article, the NYT article, finding out the number of horses being put down at Aqueduct inner track, the 24 horses per week number, I have decided that I have to take a major hiatus on this sport.

There needs to be something to minimize these deaths. The horses are the athletes here, and unfortunately they have no say in how they are treated. I never thought this was a pure sport, but I always thought there was a respect for the animals well being. Boy, was I wrong.

I agree with those who see the truth's in the NYT article. This industry needs an overhaul, and until it does, my playing days are over. Vote with your wallet.

I'll have to start reading about things the industry is doing to make the sport safer for the horses. I don't hold out much hope for that.

[Grits]

If we can make money, we are happy, generally. Horse racing has disintegrated into a sport of misfits, criminals, heartles b&stards and the like.

Horseracing has always been about gambling. And too, about horses. It was so, before the first racetrack was ever built when men stood in the middle of a field, or a dirt path, or a street, exclaiming, "I've got $20 that says my horse can outrun yours by daylight." --This isn't new. This is the way it began, its the way it remains. Its a betting sport.

As far as your quote--I'm sorry but bettors make this game go and unfortunately this isn't the best room to enter and imply that we've all disintegrated into misfits, criminals, and heartless bastards. I'm pretty confident that those of us here are not.

[Cardus]

After reading the "Luck" article, the NYT article, finding out the number of horses being put down at Aqueduct inner track, the 24 horses per week number, I have decided that I have to take a major hiatus on this sport.

There needs to be something to minimize these deaths. The horses are the athletes here, and unfortunately they have no say in how they are treated. I never thought this was a pure sport, but I always thought there was a respect for the animals well being. Boy, was I wrong.

I agree with those who see the truth's in the NYT article. This industry needs an overhaul, and until it does, my playing days are over. Vote with your wallet.

I'll have to start reading about things the industry is doing to make the sport safer for the horses. I don't hold out much hope for that.

Good riddance.

[Cardus]

Horseracing has always been about gambling. And too, about horses. It was so, before the first racetrack was ever built when men stood in the middle of a field, or a dirt path, or a street, exclaiming, "I've got $20 that says my horse can outrun yours by daylight." --This isn't new. This is the way it began, its the way it remains. Its a betting sport.

As far as your quote--I'm sorry but bettors make this game go and unfortunately this isn't the best room to enter and imply that we've all disintegrated into misfits, criminals, and heartless bastards. I'm pretty confident that those of us here are not.

An ancient history expert, too?

Who was on the $20 bill back then?

The highilghted portion: rubbish.

[Grits]

Keep carping, its what you do best.

An ancient history expert, too?

Who was on the $20 bill back then?

The highilghted portion: rubbish.

[Cardus]

Keep carping, its what you do best.

Keep pontificating, its what you do best.

[alhattab]

The difference being, of course, that the human athletes had a choice in participating in those athletic events and to take any drugs they used to enhance performance while the horses did not. i

Many people at the Times would probably disagree with this statement. These guys wouldn't be risking life and limb playing gladiator sports if they had equal access and opportunities for less dangerous pursuits.

[jeebus1083]

Looks like another breakdown at Aqueduct in the finale - There Goes Molly

From the Equibase chart caller:

"THERE GOES MOLLY displayed poor action from the get-go, bore out continuously down the backstretch while not persevered with, got pulled up and was subsequently vanned off."

Any word on this horse?

[cj]

Reynolds just returned to racing after a long absence. Why he would claim that horse, I have no idea.

[nijinski]

Although I agree this whole thing is tragic and sickening to hear , there will be more pressure again on the people in all areas the industry.
Social media has given the the opportunity to help out and many are.
Three Chimneys , WinStar and other breeders are aware and they are doing more than ever before to get at risk runners rehomed. Advice was just plucked from a $3,000 claimer in Az. because the public saw the red flags and went after the breeders and even as far as the bloodstock agents.

Wish this could be so of all the abused animals , but it takes time and
perserverance.

Drape had every right to do a story on this mess .Tthe other side of the coin is he's made a good living over the years with articles on the spectacular side of the sport. He gained the trust of many horsemen and gained privelage for some very good headlines. With the news of these reports becoming a series of Sunday news , I do hope he will highlight some of the changes and ongoing efforts of those who truly love these horses and the sport. If not , I might just start e mailing some select info to the Times.

[JustRalph]

Good riddance.

Good riddance my ass. The man makes a valid point. I can assume that many more will come to the same conclusion. For you to spout off with this crack you show that you are no better than those who have ignored problems for years. Keep tossing people out of the pools and pretty soon you have no sport.

no matter how you feel about the sport, it all comes down to leadership. Like everything else in this world of ours. The sports leaders are a disjointed amalgamation of interests lacking a confluence of ideas. Each for their own Statewide interest. It's the nature of the beast. It is a huge flaw in the sport. It is a glaring item that has been discussed for the entire ten years I have followed the game. Yet nothing has changed.

This article reminds me of the quote:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

This sport lacks identifiable good men. It abounds with scoundrels.

[menifee]

The states have created artificial subsidies with slot money. As with any other state subsidy (i.e., post-graduate education), the quality of the product suffers and the quantity supplied expands because the market is distorted. Thus, you have people entering lame and injured horses in an attempt to chase that money. Those New Mexico tracks would not survive without the artificial subsidy.

[Cardus]

Kirby is an adult, who, if he wishes to react to Drape's piece by ceasing to wager, then so be it.

I have a different outlook: I am not letting Joe Drape and The New York Times be the impetus for me to leave the sport.

I have been on the ownership side, and to a much, much greater extent, the fan/bettor side, and I am aware of the issues plaguing the sport.

I say this as someone who has followed the sport for over 30 years.

[nijinski]

Looks like another breakdown at Aqueduct in the finale - There Goes Molly

From the Equibase chart caller:

"THERE GOES MOLLY displayed poor action from the get-go, bore out continuously down the backstretch while not persevered with, got pulled up and was subsequently vanned off."

Any word on this horse?

No word yet on this poor filly , 25 starts last year . All prior trainers involved need to be questioned by the new inquiry board as well as the Vets. Just my opinion.
Not to mention since age two , never had a season off . cmon.
Whoever the Vet was that cleared her needs to explain. if she cae out with bad action , something was wrong.

[Red Knave]

As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospital, Georgie went out drinking.
As a Canadian and a Chuvalo booster, I have to add that this was after the first fight in '66, not the 2nd one in '72.
After the first fight Ali said "He's the toughest guy I ever fought", Dundee said "He never stopped coming on ... you've got to admire a man like that."
Although George wasn't knocked down in either fight, he was seriously outpointed by Ali both times.

[usedtolovetvg]

As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospitol, georgie went out drinking.

No doubt about it, George could take a beating and keep on standing.

[Cardus]

Starting at the beginning might help the discussion.

A little Journalism 101: if New Mexico's record regarding deaths weren't so, would Drape have been able to write this?

I am not arguing that fatalities, drug issues, and regulatory concerns are not problems, but was it handled well here?

And, was using New Mexico as the "news peg" (in a way) -- and I am certain that everyone here knows what that is -- sound journalism?

Is using New Mexico a worthy foundation to draw such broad conclusions, as has been done here?

It is not unreasonable to consider these elements.

[Cardus]

The messenger needs to be attacked. It was a hit piece and not journalism. The writer exploited a bad situation in New Mexico and than extrapolated it to the entire industry throughout the country. Rather than showing the problem in one state, a state that lacks regulation and enforcement, the writer sets his sights on the entire sport.

Did they run their computer analysis without the data from New Mexico? My guess is they didn't. When five of the six worst offenders are in one state, that one state has a problem. Had they included in their story that they had run the data without New Mexico and the results were the same, than they have a legitimate argument. I doubt the data would support that result.

Last year a 3 year-old died at the OBS June sale. It was the only fatality during the 2 day under tack show. Nearly 600 horses worked out and one had a heart attack and died on the track. PETA ambushed OBS based on that one horse. Just as The New York Times is ambushing the entire racing industry because of one jurisdiction. It sensationalized one incident and ignored the hundreds of times the racing goes off without a problem.

Anyone who writes that "race officials have always done their best to hide fatal breakdowns" and than sites a screen used to keep the public from seeing a horse being euthanized, has an agenda. Those same screens are used on highways all across America when fatal car accidents occur. It is not some sinister plot.

Sharp post.

[firstoffclaim]

Oaklawn 9th, 3 horses did not finish the race, fell,collapsed,eased

[Cardus]

Oaklawn 9th, 3 horses did not finish the race, fell,collapsed,eased

In that order?

Is this the first of a daily report from you?

[cj]

No word yet on this poor filly , 25 starts last year . All prior trainers involved need to be questioned by the new inquiry board as well as the Vets. Just my opinion.
Not to mention since age two , never had a season off . cmon.
Whoever the Vet was that cleared her needs to explain. if she cae out with bad action , something was wrong.

I don't really get this. She obviously has been a sound, sturdy horse. She has just been slow. She has raced regularly, much more than average, without incident...until today. There is no way to know if the vet missed something. Until horses learn to talk, things like this will happen.

[Marlin]

The states have created artificial subsidies with slot money. As with any other state subsidy (i.e., post-graduate education), the quality of the product suffers and the quantity supplied expands because the market is distorted. Thus, you have people entering lame and injured horses in an attempt to chase that money. Those New Mexico tracks would not survive without the artificial subsidy.This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?

[cj]

This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?

Well, if that is true, why did NYRA cut purses for the cheaper horses? They same to believe exactly what you termed nonsense. It is a lot easier to "flip" horses with bigger purses and make a profit without worrying about the horse's welfare.

[nijinski]

I don't really get this. She obviously has been a sound, sturdy horse. She has just been slow. She has raced regularly, much more than average, without incident...until today. There is no way to know if the vet missed something. Until horses learn to talk, things like this will happen.

She had 25 races at three , One month off from age two so aboust 31 straight total , at that point . Well above average . She has heart and ability no doubt , but that's squeezing her . Again that's my feeling.

[racingfan378]

I think racing in general needs to clean up their act and go drug free like in Australia and Hong Kong. PERIOD

But I also disagree with parts of the NY times story too. The CT race had a horse break down but all the others who fell came away unharmed including the horses and riders and it was the stewards decision to scrap the last race b/c of concerns about the SLY rated track NOT what the story said. So get the damn story right!

I think the small time tracks need to close such as: FP, RUI, WRD, NP, FON, ALB, ASD, ARP, SRP & FMT based on handle alone to help with the horse population at better tracks.

With that being said I also think the all weather surfaces in CA has done NOTHING to make the sport safer. Just look at the #s according to the article. Why is HP at 7.9 in the last 3 yrs while PID is 1.3?

I am sick and tired of hearing about this sport being dead. The day that NBC (or any tv network) stops showing racing on TV is when this sport's days are numbered!

People hated Michael Vick for dog fighting, but he came back and most forgot about it. Look at the "loser" N.O. coach paying to take out players in the NFL. We are talking about hurting another human with INTENT!! Baseball has players doping up and hurting the game like Bonds, McGwire, etc. Basketball had a ref fixing games so his "pals" could win in Vegas. NHL games have fight after fight and guys using sticks as weapons and people take their kids to see this shit!?! WWF is the same thing (acting or not) Soccer (non U.S.) has riots in the stands and people dying at a damn sporting event! Local pop warner football where the parents are taking out kids on the field, knocing them down (youtube it sometime) and then parents go at each other like a dog in heat. I could go on and on...

This sport called horse racing is a gem that has many rough spots. Yes there arent many fans in the stands. But thank the OTBs, internet, phone betting, $4 a gallon gas etc for that.

Vegas wasnt built on winners and everyone loves the neon lights, the 24/7 action and instant riches they can get from a casino (which they never do get) and not two hours to find out if I hit a .50 pick 4. This is why casinos make their money b/c people dont know the odds that are stacked against them when they walk in the door.

CA racing is a joke anymore and NM racing should be ashamed, but there are SO many great stories in this game that many people dont cover. I get goosebumps during the triple crown and the excellent montages NBC does on horses, trainers, jockeys etc that make this sport tick, waking up at 4am in the morning or spending millions of dollars to find a derby champ.

We have some bad seeds in this sport, but every sport does. When the racing big wigs can band together and stop this shit, the better it will become for this game.

If the one guy wants to stop betting, so be it. But I hope he enjoys going to a basketball game paying $70 for a half decent seat along with the other charges he would fork over to watch a professional sport that the players might be in a half-ass mood depending on whether or not their g/f was "in the mood" hours before the game starts or they stubbed their toe in the 5 star hotel they are staying in

Bottom line horse racing... clean up the drugs and fix the crap with the right answers that are staring you in the face. I will still watch my races, make my bets, and unless racing shuts their doors, that wont change me no matter what any person writes in any paper!

[appistappis]

A friend of mine owns a cheap 4000 claimer at ft erie. At 9 years old he can no longer run anymore but he has put him on a farm and pays 2 to 300 a month for his upkeep. Funny how you won't ever find a piece on his story.

[nijinski]

A friend of mine owns a cheap 4000 claimer at ft erie. At 9 years old he can no longer run anymore but he has put him on a farm and pays 2 to 300 a month for his upkeep. Funny how you won't ever find a piece on his story.
:ThmbUp: I like hearing this !

[racingfan378]

same here

the great stories about racing hardly get a second glance or read, but something bad happens and its the end of the world

[PaceAdvantage]

same here

the great stories about racing hardly get a second glance or read, but something bad happens and its the end of the worldThe problem lately is that something bad ALWAYS seems to be happening.

Whether it be another trainer busted...another jockey busted...another high profile horse breaks down in a high profile race...another high profile horse ends up in the slaughter house...and on and on and on and on...

Let's face it...the industry itself makes it EASY for the NY Times to write such articles...

That same industry does NOT make it EASY to find the positives...

[racingfan378]

i agree with you 100%

it is going to take a big wig with some balls to make the right choices to preserve this sport but i still dont think it is "dead" like some on here say

I was at AQU on the last day of the inner track where i saw four breakdowns in two races and left after that, i saw enough

doesnt mean i'll turn my back on the sport i love

we shall see how racing plans to clean up their act...

[menifee]

This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?

You are absolutely right = Adam Smith and thousands of other great economists must have had it wrong. Economic incentives and state subsidies have no impact on human behavior. People don't lie and cheat more if there is a greater economic reward subsidized by the state. Health care fraud would be the same if we had medicare or not. I don't know what I was thinking.

[aharon5741]

Soccer (non U.S.) has riots in the stands and people dying at a damn sporting event!

Great point, and way to put things in perspective. Let's not forget that 74 people were killed in a soccer riot in Egypt just last month, an extreme example for sure but people get killed at soccer (the beautiful game) matches every year. Kind of makes racing's problems as a sport seem minuscule in comparison.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-01/africa/world_africa_egypt-soccer-deaths_1_egypt-al-masry-muslim-brotherhood?_s=PM:AFRICA

[Robert Goren]

Great point, and way to put things in perspective. Let's not forget that 74 people were killed in a soccer riot in Egypt just last month, an extreme example for sure but people get killed at soccer (the beautiful game) matches every year. Kind of makes racing's problems as a sport seem minuscule in comparison.

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-02-01/africa/world_africa_egypt-soccer-deaths_1_egypt-al-masry-muslim-brotherhood?_s=PM:AFRICA So that means we should ignore the problems of horse racing because Egypt doesn't know how to control crowds at soccer matches?

[depalma113]

The problem lately is that something bad ALWAYS seems to be happening.

Whether it be another trainer busted...another jockey busted...another high profile horse breaks down in a high profile race...another high profile horse ends up in the slaughter house...and on and on and on and on...

Let's face it...the industry itself makes it EASY for the NY Times to write such articles...

That same industry does NOT make it EASY to find the positives...

Mine That Bird, Rachel Alexandra and Zenyatta were all great stories with a ton of positive press. The problem is that there is a big anti horse racing agenda by a very few in this country and they pounce on every incident and blow it way out of proportion.

Eight Belles broke down on the track. A sad horrible event for racing, but what the media and PETA did to Larry Jones was borderline criminal.

The problem racing has is that it is run by people that grew up on farms or in farming communities. The media is controlled by people who have mostly never stepped on a farm in their life. When you mix that with a population that was raised by this same media to believe that animals have the same rights humans, it's a recipe for disaster.

[Marlin]

You are absolutely right = Adam Smith and thousands of other great economists must have had it wrong. Economic incentives and state subsidies have no impact on human behavior. People don't lie and cheat more if there is a greater economic reward subsidized by the state. Health care fraud would be the same if we had medicare or not. I don't know what I was thinking.No question, I agree here. I also agree with CJ that people buy and sell horses at a higher rate (flip) at tracks with slot infused inflated purses. However it is a large jump to go from there, to the assumption that people are entering a higher percentage of lame and injured horses at slot subsidized tracks. Thats not what I would consider a "lie or cheat". I would consider that something else entirely. People "lie and cheat" for economic reward. Where is the economic reward in entering a lame or injured horse? Possibly at the claim box. However idiots have been dropping unsound horses hoping to have them claimed since the claiming race was invented.(Before Racinos BTW)After all, people can't really think racing a lame or injured horse will result in riches on the track. They probably can't win. And if they cant win, where is the economic reward?

[Blenheim]

The mob clamored for speed and the breeders produced a fast horse - breeders couldn't have known that a fast horse would possess lighter, fragile bones. http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=10 Breeders are now producing a fast fragile horse required to run more often - a deadly recipe, not only for the horse but for the rider. As they breed for more and more speed the likelihood of catastrophic incidences will also increase - we are witnessing a runaway effect that can only be reversed by breeding a stouter horse, a horse better able to withstand the rigors of more and more racing.

Most everyone is focused on the problem, few are focused on providing solutions.

[Cardus]

This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?

Very funny.

[Kirbyjrt]

The problem lately is that something bad ALWAYS seems to be happening.

Whether it be another trainer busted...another jockey busted...another high profile horse breaks down in a high profile race...another high profile horse ends up in the slaughter house...and on and on and on and on...

Let's face it...the industry itself makes it EASY for the NY Times to write such articles...

That same industry does NOT make it EASY to find the positives...

You are exactly right. This is an industry problem. I don't know how to fix it. People can say what they want about me pulling my $100.00 on a Saturday from this industry. Good riddance to me I suppose. My choice, as it is theirs to continue to bet. I don't think I am going to put any tracks out of business, but as a consumer, I have to choose where to spend my entertainment dollars. I may not be out forever, but I would certainly like to read some things in the future on what the sport is doing to minimize the number of breakdowns.

Let the criticisms begin.

By the way, what is this basketball someone referred to? The day I spend $70 on a basketball game is the day h&&l freezes over.

[turninforhome10]

The mob clamored for speed and the breeders produced a fast horse - breeders couldn't have known that a fast horse would possess lighter, fragile bones. http://www.jockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=10 Breeders are now producing a fast fragile horse required to run more often - a deadly recipe, not only for the horse but for the rider. As they breed for more and more speed the likelihood of catastrophic incidences will also increase - we are witnessing a runaway effect that can only be reversed by breeding a stouter horse, a horse better able to withstand the rigors of more and more racing.

Most everyone is focused on the problem, few are focused on providing solutions.

I am going out on limb here, but we have one of the only industry's where the only requirment for inclusion into a breeding program is four legs and a heartbeat. How much has the commercial market changed the way people breed? Is it more important for the breeder to produce a 9 and change 2yo or a horse that will remain sound? Get em to the sale and after that the horse is someone else's problem. How many sons of Storm Cat that never made the races do we need. The breedding book needs qualifications. Would like to see the data on the decline of the owner-breeder since the commercial markets started pushing out the million dollar babies.

[johnhannibalsmith]

....

Let's face it...the industry itself makes it EASY for the NY Times to write such articles...



March 18, Summers at Delmar, pulled up, vanned off at Santa Anita.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/SA031812USA6.pdf

Six days later, March 24, Summers at Delmar, pulled up, vanned off at Turf Paradise.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/TUP032412USA2.pdf

No work between races. Entered at a different track just two days after being vanned off.

You can change medication rules, breeding requirements, necropsy protocol, retirement accomodations... but as long as you have every person responsible for safeguarding the animal and the public at every stop between point A and point B just completely indifferent to, if nothing else, the perception problem that accompanies such a ridiculous scenario - racing will continue to shoot itself in the foot.

I've looked around and couldn't find this horse on a vet's list from California. Hard to imagine that he wasn't, but this is the type of failure arising from a horse moving between jurisdictions that makes me see the light on the need for centralization.

Maybe it was a total fluke occurence and the horse wasn't put on a vet's list for a good reason and nobody could have realistically thought that he would be entered right back and be vanned off again. But in 2012, with every lapse in judgement scrutinized when things go haywire and are used against you, there was almost no good outcome that could have happened in a race with a horse vanned off, back in less than a week later elsewhere, showing no work. Perception and manipulation of circumstances to tell a story are what is doing the sport in - this is just an example of many situations outside the parameters of what we usually blame for perception problems - things that needn't happen at all if those that rely on the sport for a paycheck would step up and recognize the "power of perception" and intervene before they add to the avalanche.

[5k-claim]

While high-profile Triple Crown races get the most attention, the mainstay of racing in America is the lower tier, so-called claiming races. Horses in these races are most vulnerable, in part because regulators often give them less protection from potentially dangerous drugs. What regulators? The ones in Kentucky? (If the authors are trying to make a state vs. state (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/24/us/for-horse-and-jockey-risks-vary.html) distinction they could just say so. Unless they really do mean a class distinction within the state.)

Why racehorses break down at such a high rate has been debated for years, but the discussion inevitably comes back to drugs. Laboratories cannot yet detect the newest performance-enhancing drugs, while trainers experiment with anything that might give them an edge, including chemicals that bulk up pigs and cattle before slaughter, cobra venom, Viagra, blood doping agents, stimulants and cancer drugs. Am I the only one who would be more than willing to have our blood and urine samples sent to the exact same labs, and put under the exact same tests, as those used in Canada or Europe? And yes, I mean exact same.

Apparently nowhere else in the world exists Viagra, cancer drugs or human nature. There must be some damn fine drug tests out there in the world that catch everything, though. I say, bring them on. It is time to clean up the drug addiction that exists in America's trainer community.

By contrast, Woodbine Racetrack in Toronto, which year after year has one of the lowest breakdown rates in North America, had an incident rate of only 1.4, according to the Times analysis. “One of the differences here is medication is not as permissive as it is in the U.S.,” said Jamie Martin, executive vice president of racing at Woodbine. With 6 people contributing to this piece I am glad they at least found the time on their schedule to do the same analysis (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/03/24/us/for-horse-and-jockey-risks-vary.html) on at least one cherry-picked track from outside the U.S.. If I may do a little cherry-picking of my own, I would point out that Keeneland (incident rate 1.6 on their report) is not only in the U.S., but more specifically the state of Kentucky which some would say has fairly permissive medication rules. I guess they ran out of time compiling the article to include anything about Keeneland or Kentucky's drug policies- which I am pretty sure the authors would consider lax.

Are there problems in racing and improvements to be made? Yes. Of course. Obviously.

Would I rather that all of the problems were just swept under the rug and ignored? Nope. Not at all.

But really, I have seen just as compelling rants on this message board as what this article demonstrates. To anyone who would quit on the sport because of this article and its authors all I can say is, "too bad". In more ways than one.

.

[FantasticDan]

Beyer weighs in:

http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-racing-confronts-another-crisis

[cj]

Beyer weighs in:

http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-racing-confronts-another-crisis

Once again, he nails it and shows the fallacies of Drape's article.

[alhattab]

How many articles does the NY Times print about racing in a year?
How many that are not hit and run articles?

The only animal the Times is good for is fish - as in wrapping them in it.

Just to emphasize the Times' position on things, the "Ethicist" column in the NYT Magazine is running a contest, the winner being the person who best articulates why it is ethical for Man to eat meat.

[JustRalph]

Once again, he nails it and shows the fallacies of Drape's article.

I agree. But I disagree also. He points out that quarter horse racing is different. Yep, but the only difference I see is the incident rate. I don't care if the incident rate is lower in T-breds, the same problems still exist and they are ignored in exactly the same manner. T-Bred racing has been dancing around the same issues as qhorse racing but on a much larger scale. There is a similarity to be drawn and the differences are not that far apart.

And the public will see no difference at all............

Think about it. This is a sport that allows participants to get away with murder (in some cases almost literally) with no recourse except for mild suspensions. We have snake venom users and cocaine abusers playing the tale of the dog in this dog and pony show, and they are wagging the rest of us. I feel very little for the "regulators" whom by the way are almost non existent in some places, and even less for those who cry foul because it's about an entire industry being damaged.

I find it very hard to cheer for those who are good within the sport, when they have watched this go on for so long.

[usedtolovetvg]

I would like to believe that any person could see that this is a huge and maybe final wake up call for the industry. Wouldn't this be the right time for a smart racing jurisdiction to hire an independent investigation into all, and I mean all, the shenanigans that take place in racing. Stop the drugs, stop the abuse, get rid of the megalomaniacs and degenerates running the show. It is now or maybe never that public perception needs to be changed and confidence restored. And, the player has to believe there is a level playing field. Now, excuse me while a chase that flock of pigs that just flew by.

[lansdale]

Once again, he nails it and shows the fallacies of Drape's article.

CJ,

I don't think you're claiming this issue is not a genuine problem. Beyer exposed no 'fallacies' in the article - just a misleading emphasis on QH breakdowns in NM. But as JR pointed out, this in no way gets thoroughbred racing off the hook for its criminal indifference to the welfare of horses. Also, should the abuses of QH racing be ignored because the horses aren't thoroughbreds? It's a ridiculous distinction. Beyer's conclusion is in total agreement with the thrust of the Times' story:

"Racetracks today are surely better engineered and better maintained than they were 30 years ago, but the accident rate is significantly higher. Everybody knows what has changed during that period: the proliferation of legal and illegal medications in the United States. On this subject the New York Times was exactly right: “Breakdowns can be caused by a variety of factors . . . but drugs, often used to mask existing injuries, are the prime suspect.”
Drugs have been a crucial part of the sport since the 1970s, when the U.S. became the first major racing nation to allow the use of medications on race day. Horsemen argue that Thoroughbreds need drugs such as Butazolidin to withstand the stresses of modern racing, and for decades they have resisted most proposals to curtail the use of medications.

But racing may now have reached a critical point. The sport’s fatality rate is being subjected to unprecedented scrutiny. PETA is a formidable adversary. While people in racing may complain that critics distort the facts, the industry doesn’t have a good answer when those critics say that the misuse of drugs is responsible for killing racehorses. Until racing has a proper response to this charge, it will remain under attack."

[Cardus]

Yet again, Andy Beyer demonstrates how to handle a vital horse racing matter in an intellectually honest matter. Beyer 1, Drape 0.

He lists recent criticism -- Drape's flawed piece, and PETA's disgraceful attack on "Luck" -- and debunks crucial elements of each on the merits.

Not differentiating Thoroughbred racing and Quarter Horse racing -- I wonder if some of the others included in the Times' byline had ever heard of Quarter Horse racing before, and even after, the article was printed -- is a huge flaw, and not using the term until well into the article (certainly after it left the front page) is an example of how people with an agenda seek intellectual cover. This is what I mean:

Drape can say that he used the term "Quarter Horse racing" in the piece, but it is when the term was used that matters. Forty-eighth paragraph? That is deep into his piece. Thanks for mentioning it, Joe.


"Subtract the Quarter Horse component from the study and the Times might not have a carnage-laden front page story", Beyer wrote. This addressed one of my questions.

Beyer's is a balanced column, though: he takes racing to task for its inability or unwillingness to address the issue of medication usage. Who here can say that Drape's feature is "balanced"? Any takers?

And from a writing perspective -- substance and style, grammar and diction -- Beyer's work laps Drape's. So much for fawning over the decorated, award-winning writers of the day. Right, Grits?

Some of the initial reactions here to The New York Times' effort were knee-jerk reactions.

Thankfully, Beyer provided an alternative.

[Dahoss9698]

I agree. But I disagree also. He points out that quarter horse racing is different. Yep, but the only difference I see is the incident rate. I don't care if the incident rate is lower in T-breds, the same problems still exist and they are ignored in exactly the same manner. T-Bred racing has been dancing around the same issues as qhorse racing but on a much larger scale. There is a similarity to be drawn and the differences are not that far apart.

And the public will see no difference at all............

Think about it. This is a sport that allows participants to get away with murder (in some cases almost literally) with no recourse except for mild suspensions. We have snake venom users and cocaine abusers playing the tale of the dog in this dog and pony show, and they are wagging the rest of us. I feel very little for the "regulators" whom by the way are almost non existent in some places, and even less for those who cry foul because it's about an entire industry being damaged.

I find it very hard to cheer for those who are good within the sport, when they have watched this go on for so long.

I'm sure that we all would love for the sport to be totally on the up and up, but it isn't realistic.

All sports have issues. Football has MAJOR issues right now with all of the concussion stuff that is just finally starting to see the light of day. Lawsuits are being filed almost daily by former players. Baseball saw decades of steroid use and pretended it didn't happen. To the point where some of the biggest names the sport has ever seen are in jeopardy of not making the hall of fame because they were cheating.

It doesn't excuse horse racing's issues, but I'm tired of people acting like horse racing is so evil compared to other sports.

We need to be careful what we wish for. We had a show on HBO that revolved around the sport we all spend countless hours talking about and it made it through one season because we didn't stand behind it and we didn't stick up for our sport when PETA was wrong again. This is a time we need to be standing up for our sport when it comes to erroneous reports and lazy journalism.

I am in total agreement with you that there needs to be stricter suspensions, and even some permanent bans. The sport needs some cleaning up. Maybe lots of cleaning up. But it didn't get this way overnight and it won't be changed overnight.

[Tom]

Just to emphasize the Times' position on things, the "Ethicist" column in the NYT Magazine is running a contest, the winner being the person who best articulates why it is ethical for Man to eat meat.

No-brainer - God gave us cows and teeth.

[Tom]

You can change medication rules, breeding requirements, necropsy protocol,
I've looked around and couldn't find this horse on a vet's list from California. Hard to imagine that he wasn't, but this is the type of failure arising from a horse moving between jurisdictions that makes me see the light on the need for centralization.



Spot on, you Basterd.
Racing is so far in the dark ages it isn't funny. There is no way there should not be a national database that has every-damn-medical procedure a race horse undergoes the day it happens. There is no excuse for the boarder line incompetent way this game is run. Baseball has stats on how many times a pitcher spits per inning, but racing cant' seem to figure out howto know if a horse is gelded or not or even what he weighs! Rocket-friggin science to the weak minds of this game. Every horse's medical record should be available on line in real time. If the morons who run the game can't figure it out, they need to be replaced.

[cj]

CJ,

I don't think you're claiming this issue is not a genuine problem. Beyer exposed no 'fallacies' in the article - just a misleading emphasis on QH breakdowns in NM. But as JR pointed out, this in no way gets thoroughbred racing off the hook for its criminal indifference to the welfare of horses. Also, should the abuses of QH racing be ignored because the horses aren't thoroughbreds? It's a ridiculous distinction. Beyer's conclusion is in total agreement with the thrust of the Times' story:



I'm not. Why did Drape have to use New Mexico and a different breed when he could have found plenty to write about in his own backyard? I've started a few threads about some of the stuff that is happening with the cheaper claiming horses. Why go across breeds and a few time zones? It makes no sense to me.

[Tom]

Only reason I can see is he had that nifty photo to use.
Filling an article with facts is just so boring.....

[Grits]

And from a writing perspective -- substance and style, grammar and diction -- Beyer's work laps Drape's. So much for fawning over the decorated, award-winning writers of the day. Right, Grits?

I'm asking you. Please, put me on ignore and . . . .

Don't ever mention my name another time in your posts.

[turninforhome10]

Just did a google search on the phrase "24 horse die on average each week at American racetracks" and it returned thousands of hits. This is becoming a very politically charged issue and am seeing a few politicians using this to sway voters from those who would love to see horse racing die. Here is my problem with the whole mess. Who is really looking after the horse?
Trainers are being blamed for pushing their stock to hard and running cripples.
Owners are being blamed for trying to squeeze every asset from their horse.
Racing Secretary's are trying to fill races and don't care how.
Regulators are clueless as to how to fix the problem, even though after every roundtable they "have a plan"
Handicappers want full fields with no funny business.
Vets want sell meds and services.
Politicians want the slot money.
Who is looking after the horse?

It was mentioned in an earlier post "Racetracks today are surely better engineered and better maintained than they were 30 years ago, but the accident rate is significantly higher". I disagree in the fact that the track I ran horses at Penn National and they have been struggling for some time to find a full time track engineer who knows how to take care of a track. I sometimes wonder if Polytrack was invented to make a track easier to maintain rather than the safety issue. I remember one year at Canterbury, they installed a new track surface. You could drive right down the road and see the corn field it came out of. We took a horse to run in a stakes, and with very little rain the track was so bad the ambulance could not even get around so they cancelled. Was it the surface at AQU or the horses?
This whole mess reminds me of the old political cartoon Gen Jackson slays the many headed monster. So many regulatory bodies and no one to make them work together to come up with a solution.
I am afraid Peta and Washington with the bleeding heart media are going to find a solution for us. We better have good lobbyists

[Cardus]

I'm asking you. Please, put me on ignore and . . . .

Don't ever mention my name another time in your posts.

I do not put people on ignore.

Never have, never will.

The second sentence sounds like a threat. I don't do that, either.

This is an interesting topic, and I am glad that an alternative voice -- the most prominent racing media one, at that -- provided a different, and I believe, correct, analysis.

In a sport in which our differing opinions play out for all to see -- on a toteboard -- every race, I see no reason why disparate opinions cannot be debated and dissected here.

[gm10]

Yet again, Andy Beyer demonstrates how to handle a vital horse racing matter in an intellectually honest matter. Beyer 1, Drape 0.

He lists recent criticism -- Drape's flawed piece, and PETA's disgraceful attack on "Luck" -- and debunks crucial elements of each on the merits.

Not differentiating Thoroughbred racing and Quarter Horse racing -- I wonder if some of the others included in the Times' byline had ever heard of Quarter Horse racing before, and even after, the article was printed -- is a huge flaw, and not using the term until well into the article (certainly after it left the front page) is an example of how people with an agenda seek intellectual cover. This is what I mean:

Drape can say that he used the term "Quarter Horse racing" in the piece, but it is when the term was used that matters. Forty-eighth paragraph? That is deep into his piece. Thanks for mentioning it, Joe.


"Subtract the Quarter Horse component from the study and the Times might not have a carnage-laden front page story", Beyer wrote. This addressed one of my questions.

Beyer's is a balanced column, though: he takes racing to task for its inability or unwillingness to address the issue of medication usage. Who here can say that Drape's feature is "balanced"? Any takers?

And from a writing perspective -- substance and style, grammar and diction -- Beyer's work laps Drape's. So much for fawning over the decorated, award-winning writers of the day. Right, Grits?

Some of the initial reactions here to The New York Times' effort were knee-jerk reactions.

Thankfully, Beyer provided an alternative.

I don't understand why people like Beyer and others are focusing on the New Mexico and quarter horse aspect so much. It's irrelevant ... I'm in the middle of a car crash but it's not as bad as it looks. My brakes aren't working, but the rest of my car is just fine!

[cj]

I don't understand why people like Beyer and others are focusing on the New Mexico and quarter horse aspect so much. It's irrelevant ... I'm in the middle of a car crash but it's not as bad as it looks. My brakes aren't working, but the rest of my car is just fine!
If you read the article he states why. Again, why cross two time zones and a breed to write that article when there was plenty to investigate in his backyard?

[gm10]

If you read the article he states why. Again, why cross two time zones and a breed to write that article when there was plenty to investigate in his backyard?

I mean that the damage is done. It's disastrous PR, and must have caused outrage. Picking on some of the details of the article isn't going to do any good. It will only add to the perception that racing is deaf and blind as well as cruel.

[cj]

I mean that the damage is done. It's disastrous PR, and must have caused outrage. Picking on some of the details of the article isn't going to do any good. It will only add to the perception that racing is deaf and blind as well as cruel.

If somebody writes an article that Ford's are pieces of crap, is Chevy going to go scrambling to change the image that is portrayed. Why is damage done to the thoroughbred industry by an article mostly about quarterhorses in New Mexico? Beyer is a thoroughbred horse racing columnist, what was he supposed to write?

[Cardus]

I don't understand why people like Beyer and others are focusing on the New Mexico and quarter horse aspect so much. It's irrelevant ... I'm in the middle of a car crash but it's not as bad as it looks. My brakes aren't working, but the rest of my car is just fine!

Beyer reacted to the Times' feature, which was premised on dysfunction in New Mexico, mainly among Quarter Horses.

I am quite certain that Beyer would not author the piece that Drape produced.

Furthermore, it is interesting that there has been very little -- perhaps no -- defense of Drape's feature here since yesterday.

[Tread]

If somebody writes an article that Ford's are pieces of crap, is Chevy going to go scrambling to change the image that is portrayed. Why is damage done to the thoroughbred industry by an article mostly about quarterhorses in New Mexico? Beyer is a thoroughbred horse racing columnist, what was he supposed to write?

I don't understand why you continue to deflect the Tbred negative data that is presented in this article. While the prose may have been focused on the worst issues (those being in NM), there is plenty of damning data for the TBred industry presented in the data/charts on the right side of the column.

To my knowledge, Ohio/Penn/WV do not have quarter horse racing, and I believe it has already been stated that harness was not involved in the data, so that data for those states provided is purely T-Bred, is it not?

Why does Ohio have over 400 drug positives? Which is especially shocking given the extremely small field sizes you see in Ohio these days, if these figures were done in terms of positives per start, the stat would jump out even more.

Why are the death figures in Penn and WV so close to the NM number, if the problem here is purely a Quarter Horse and/or NM problem? The assertion that this data is only damning of quarterhorses is downright ridiculous. The inclusion of that data may make things looks slightly worse than they are in the TBred world, but there is still plenty of TBred only data in this report that should be very concerning.

[racingfan378]

Ohio might have 400 positives, but mark my words, with them getting slots, the racing there will be much better than what MNR has to offer and better than PA with this $72 million they want to cut from the horsemen

With that the purses will be better and they wouldnt have to use as many drugs to get a horse around the track.

With that being said...

The NY Times article had pros and cons, but I dont trust the NY times one bit with the inaccurate parts of the article they wrote about

Once again, the bottom line is simple, the tracks need to band together and clear up their act (with drugs and everything else) before it's too late!

[turninforhome10]

How far are we on the way to "the last nail in the coffin"? Who's job is it to clean up the mess? The regulators, the owners who? What would a two week boycott by the horse players do? Are we helping when we continue to wager on a product that has these problems. What can the handicapper do to send a message that we want to play our hard earned money on a sport that has a level playing field.
My question is this
Take the horse Jersey Jazz in the 4th at Parx on 3-27. Pulled up Walked off in last. I like the horse and am thinking about playing him in the exacta.
In any other form of sports wager I would have complete understanding of the injury that cause the layoff. Horse racing? We accept the fact that this is a secret. Why? Horse runs a bang up race for second at hefty odds. Here is the crux info for the handicapper. If we go to total transparency, horse becomes a possible claim. So how do we provide info to the handicapper that also keeps the potential claiming owners at bay . We can't . There is the problem.

[5k-claim]

Yet again, Andy Beyer demonstrates how to handle a vital horse racing matter in an intellectually honest matter. Beyer 1, Drape 0.

Beyer's is a balanced column, though: he takes racing to task for its inability or unwillingness to address the issue of medication usage. Who here can say that Drape's feature is "balanced"? Any takers? I would agree with you that Beyer is "intellectually honest". Especially in comparison to that Drape article.

But he still might be cutting some corners on the breakdown issue, I think. (Not in my opinion reaching the level of intellectual dishonesty, but cutting a few corners...)

From his article:

But blaming dirt is (in my opinion ) a specious argument. Racetracks today are surely better engineered and better maintained than they were 30 years ago, but the accident rate is significantly higher. Everybody knows what has changed during that period: the proliferation of legal and illegal medications in the United States. On this subject the New York Times was exactly right: “Breakdowns can be caused by a variety of factors . . . but drugs, often used to mask existing injuries, are the prime suspect. .... ” Here are the fatality numbers from 3 tracks as reported in the Jockey Club's Equine Injury Database.

Fatalities per 1,000 starts:

* Woodbine (http://jockeyclub.com/pdfs/eid/_Woodbine.pdf) 2009: 1.05 , 2010: 0.88 , 2011 0.92 , 3-Year total: 0.95

* Keeneland (http://jockeyclub.com/pdfs/eid/_Keeneland.pdf) 2009: 0.7 , 2010: 1.09 , 2011: 1.38 , 3-Yeat total: 1.05

* Turfway Park (http://jockeyclub.com/pdfs/eid/_TurfwayPark.pdf) 2009: 1.67 , 2010: 1.14 , 2011: 1.07 , 3-Year total: 1.32

Would you say that at Keeneland and Turfway Park "the accident rate is significantly higher"?

Remember the quote from Drape's article: By contrast, Woodbine Racetrack in Toronto, which year after year has one of the lowest breakdown rates in North America, had an incident rate of only 1.4, according to the Times analysis. “One of the differences here is medication is not as permissive as it is in the U.S.,” said Jamie Martin, executive vice president of racing at Woodbine. The state of Kentucky has what are considered by some to be fairly lenient drug policies. We get to use some Bute as an anti-inflammatory, but not on race day, and also Lasix. (As for the Bute, it is no different from any other drug used in the U.S. or Canada or Europe or Australia or the planet Mars- it all comes down to detection times and withdrawal times. The world uses the same drugs, it is just a matter of what withdrawal time is prudent to use in whatever jurisdiction is being raced in.) In Kentucky, the amount of Bute that you can legally still have in your system on race day does not reach the level of "pain masking" and cruelty... and anyone, no matter how famous, making the argument otherwise is out to lunch.

It should also be remembered in looking at the numbers for Woodbine, Keeneland and Turfway Park that in addition to allowing Lasix, Keeneland takes in shippers from all over the region for its meet, and Turfway Park races cheaper claiming horses in the middle of winter.

So what to make of the drug policy in the state of Kentucky? Is it an evil policy that contributes to "significantly higher" accident and fatality rates?

I am not saying that drug policies across the country could not be improved. And God knows the testing procedures (especially for the illegal drugs) are in constant need of additional funding and improvement. As much as it may pain me to say this, I really do believe that significant funding (even from slot money!!) needs to always be earmarked for improved drug testing procedures. Always. And yes, that even means money that would otherwise go to purses.

Illegal drugs are dangerous to our horses, and the cheating humans (with both legal and illegal drugs) are dangerous to both the horses and also our bank accounts. I have no problem with the industry spending money (even slot money!!) on tracking them down. And then spending the money to continue to do so into the future.

But that is a far cry from the "cutting corners" that many people take in just laying problems at the feet of legal therapeutic drugs, and current drug policies.

I think this sums up better where I would personally make some major crackdowns: I am in total agreement with you that there needs to be stricter suspensions, and even some permanent bans. The sport needs some cleaning up. Maybe lots of cleaning up. There simply exists no real deterrent to cheating in this sport. And even banning Lasix isn't go to change that if the punishments for using it are a joke. I want to make sure the trainers are guilty... dead-to-rights guilty. But when they are... then the punishments need to be meaningful. Very meaningful. There needs to be rock solid, strong deterrents to cheating.

That is what I would put at the top of my "To Do" list.

And finally, as for this:

I find it very hard to cheer for those who are good within the sport, when they have watched this go on for so long.Well... bully for you, Ralph.

.

[lansdale]

I'm not. Why did Drape have to use New Mexico and a different breed when he could have found plenty to write about in his own backyard? I've started a few threads about some of the stuff that is happening with the cheaper claiming horses. Why go across breeds and a few time zones? It makes no sense to me.

CJ,

Others here have pointed up the blind spot in your post, so I won't belabor it, but the piece was about malign neglect in the horseracing industry as a whole, not just T'bred racing. And, since this is supposed to be only the first installment of a multi-part series, the piece focussed first on what it found to be the worst offender nationwide - New Mexico QH racing. And as the excerpt from Beyer that I pasted strongly asserted, the fact that T'bred racing is, on average, not as horrible as NM, doesn't mean it's not badly in need of an overhaul on the issues the piece raises.

Another post you made here also questions the why the Times is supposedly going so far out of its own region in singling out NM racing. The Times, like the WSJ, is not just a local paper. What do you think leaders in the U.S. and other countries read - the 'Cleveland Plain Dealer' (nothing vs. Cleveland, BTW)? These are the two most influential papers in the world, and their coverage is both global and national as well as local.

Cheers,

lansdale

[cj]

CJ,

Another post you made here also questions the why the Times is supposedly going so far out of its own region in singling out NM racing. The Times, like the WSJ, is not just a local paper. What do you think leaders in the U.S. and other countries read - the 'Cleveland Plain Dealer' (nothing vs. Cleveland, BTW)? These are the two most influential papers in the world, and their coverage is both global and national as well as local.

Cheers,

lansdale

I have no problem with somebody attacking racing. It needs to be done. There are lots of problems and too many horses dying. But, it should be done right. This guy was all over the place in his writing. Often, his examples are vague, or his conclusions questionable. It is pretty clear to me this guy doesn't understand the game, or didn't do his research. Here are a few examples:

A computer analysis of data from more than 150,000 races, along with injury reports, drug test results and interviews, shows an industry still mired in a culture of drugs and lax regulation and a fatal breakdown rate that remains far worse than in most of the world.

OK...what are the rates here? What is "most of the world", and what are its rates? Which ones are worse since it is only most? Since the NYT did this analysis, did they also study the rest of the world with the same criteria, or did they simply use somebody else's stats?

The greatest number of incidents on a single day — 23 — occurred last year on the most celebrated day of racing in America, the running of the Kentucky Derby. One Derby horse fractured a leg, as did a horse in the previous race at Churchill Downs. All told, seven jockeys at other tracks were thrown to the ground after their horses broke down.

What is the point? Some day had to be the worse. Isn't it very likely that there are more races run that day than most others, with more horses? Does this somehow relate to it being Kentucky Derby day? Did the casual fan watching the Derby also watch Thistledown and Ruidoso just because of the Derby?

“It’s hard to justify how many horses we go through,” said Dr. Rick Arthur, the equine medical director for the California Racing Board. “In humans you never see someone snap their leg off running in the Olympics. But you see it in horse racing.”

I don't even know where to begin with this one. I don't recall a horses leg ever snapping off during a race. I've seen plenty of humans pull up in distress while racing. Hell, I've done it myself. Luckily we are built a bit differently and don't have to be euthanized most times.

Even some of America’s most prestigious tracks, including Belmont Park, Santa Anita Park and Saratoga Race Course, had incident rates higher than the national average last year, records show.

I thought the point of the article was that racinos are largely to blame. How many of those tracks had casinos last year? Hint, it is less than one.

As many as 90 percent of horses that break down had pre-existing injuries, California researchers have found.

How can it be "as many as"? Either 90 percent do, or they don't. What is the number?

Yet no accident over the last three years can match what occurred in a single race on Feb. 29, at Hollywood Casino at Charles Town Races in West Virginia. Eight horses started. Seven fell. One finished. Along the way, seven jockeys were left scattered on the ground.

He tries to give the impression that seven horses had problems in the race, when in fact, it was only one. If seven horses fell, any idiot can figure out the seven jockeys were "left scattered on the ground". Those words were just added to inflame the reader, and done so by using a faulty example.

From the same race:

The next and final race was canceled, not just because it took so long to clear the track, but also because too few jockeys were available or willing to ride.

Well, really? Who would have known. I figured there were at least an extra 10 riders hanging out at CharlesTown for the last race, you know, just in case seven fell in the prior. Willing or available? I'm pretty sure available was the answer, but he tries to make it sound like a bunch of excess riders were cowering in the corner with fear. Please.

That is enough for now. Everyone can read the article for themselves.If the writer really understood the game, he could have done so much better. Did he visit a single track or venture to the backstretch? Did he talk to any of the trainers he vilifies (some rightfully so)? Finally, why is there a "horse racing industry as a whole"? The sport has enough issues without being lumped in with quarterhorse racing. He didn't need to do that to write the article, but my guess is it just made it easier for him to write without leaving his desk.

[cj]

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to defend the sport a bit. I've started several threads here about horses I thought were being treated poorly. Very few bothered to respond, and of those that did some even tried to explain away the actions of the connections involved.

I'm all for no drugs and tough suspensions. If this article helps, great. He certainly has the right forum to push for change. As I said though, it could have been so much better.

[Tom]

Good coverage/discussion on At the Races Monday - first two hours.
Steve hits a home run on this one.

The NYT data is so seriously flawed, one cannot accept anything in the article as accurate. The game needs to do a lot of cleaning up, but the racing media needs to do much more - it needs to purge itself of lying SOBs like this author.

[ElKabong]

When posting the link earlier this week concerning adjustments that NYRA is making I had no idea this NYT piece was forthcoming. Joe Drape has been an award winning, highly respected journalist for many years. He has a tremendous passion for this sport and has covered it well. One can understand that this was extremely difficult for him and his co-writers to work on. The report has been released only a few hours and the term, "Pulitzer" has been suggested several times, already. The comments that follow it are abundant. So, how will all of this be received by the industry and the public?

(a)The article may be the one published work that serves to motivate racing's governing bodies, its trainers, owners, vets, etc, to correct that which is, and has been, wrong for many years. To begin to work together, nationwide, allowing best practices to be implemented that will benefit, more certainly, the horses. Practices and regulations that will benefit all who are involved in the industry. And too, devise rulings that will cull those who can't comply.

(b) The article may be what serves as the lone preemptive strike that launches the death of thoroughbred racing and wagering.

How long can we believe a sport is going to remain viable, appeal to the public, to commercial interests who provide televised coverage of its premier events? The sport's face of dysfunction is so self serving, so crooked, so wrought with problems of drugs and greed it lands, not only between the covers of trade publications each week, worse, its now featured, horrifically, in one of the nation's most successful news publications.

We live in a nation that has had no qualms --none whatsoever-- about putting honest, hard working people out of work. It has had no problem allowing its industries to go overseas, paying workers to do jobs for nothing in comparison to wages paid prior to outsourcing.

It IS devastating. Unfortunately, you industry folk be damned, this is a nation that won't care about your job. Lord, knows Congress won't; they can turn on a dime. Ugliness and secrets aren't popular when allowed out from under the bed. (Congress is kinda funny that way, though they're pros at ugly!) If those in the countless "front office kingdoms of racing", quibbling and covering, had used their time more wisely, those of us who love thoroughbreds, may not have found our sport exposed in the New York Times in what may well become, Horseracing Hell.

Helluva great post, Grits. Wwell said

But I don't think (b) will happen. Racing doesn't get "front and center " very often, this will blow over with the general public after a short period of time.....out of sight, out of mind

[JustRalph]

Good coverage/discussion on At the Races Monday - first two hours.
Steve hits a home run on this one.

The NYT data is so seriously flawed, one cannot accept anything in the article as accurate. The game needs to do a lot of cleaning up, but the racing media needs to do much more - it needs to purge itself of lying SOBs like this author.

But there is a larger point. And they don't have to do with the stats. So what? The stats are lower than what they quote. They are still applicable.

Many of us have bitched about the drugs in the game forever. Nothing has changed. Beyer gets it right.......and has for a long time. But nobody listens to him either.

[Robert Goren]

What we need is article about breakdowns in the Weekly Standard. Then conservatives wouldn't get hung up over where it was printed and concentrate on find what was written.

[Dahoss9698]

What we need is article about breakdowns in the Weekly Standard. Then conservatives wouldn't get hung up over where it was printed and concentrate on find what was written.

Oy vey.

I'm not conservative, not by any stretch of the imagination and I think the article is crap.

This is the problem with horseplayers (and those that pretend they are one on the internet). We don't defend our sport against the stupidity of PETA or against the stupidity of this article.

Instead we watch as our sport gets thrown under the bus. Like I said earlier, we need to be careful what we wish for. Eventually, the game will just be shut down and then what would you bitch about everyday?

There are a lot of things that need to be changed in this sport. Making up stuff to suit an agenda, skewing statistics and allowing the PETA's of the world to dictate to the sport how it should be run is ridiculous and is not going to induce any change. We need better leadership at all levels and people that actually care about the sport succeeding long term.

[Robert Goren]

Oy vey.

I'm not conservative, not by any stretch of the imagination and I think the article is crap.

This is the problem with horseplayers (and those that pretend they are one on the internet). We don't defend our sport against the stupidity of PETA or against the stupidity of this article.

Instead we watch as our sport gets thrown under the bus. Like I said earlier, we need to be careful what we wish for. Eventually, the game will just be shut down and then what would you bitch about everyday?

There are a lot of things that need to be changed in this sport. Making up stuff to suit an agenda, skewing statistics and allowing the PETA's of the world to dictate to the sport how it should be run is ridiculous and is not going to induce any change. We need better leadership at all levels and people that actually care about the sport succeeding long term.PETA is not the problem nor is the NYT article. The breaking down of horses on the race track is. People like you are letting the messenger get in road of the message. Horse racing needs address its problems and stop worrying about the who is writing about them or if they got every stat exactly right. Bitching about PETA or the NYT isn't going to stop one breakdown. If horse racing spent as energy into to trying to fix that problem as they did in damage control over the article maybe some horses might have been saved. If they want PETA off their backs then reduce the number of breakdowns. The industry knows what needs to be done, but they don't want to do it. They can't eliminate all break downs, but they reduce the number by quite a bit. We know that it can be done because a few tracks have done it.

[FenceBored]

I don't understand why people like Beyer and others are focusing on the New Mexico and quarter horse aspect so much. It's irrelevant ... I'm in the middle of a car crash but it's not as bad as it looks. My brakes aren't working, but the rest of my car is just fine!

It's like saying that flat racing in the UK is too dangerous to horses and using as your evidence examples from the National Hunt.

[Robert Goren]

I am not a big bettor, but I do wager some. I have been betting horses since the 1960s. I really resent the fact you imply that I don't bet on horses. I love this game as much as anybody. I hate that is it is Hell bent on committing suicide. There are people who post here who are milking the game for every penny that they can and could care less whether it will be around in 20 years. They oppose any changes to the game. I am not one of those people. I may not be around in 20 years, but I hope horse racing is. I hope it is around in a 50, but it won't be unless it changes its business model.

[pondman]

After dealing with the W Va and Pa commisions they sent faxes to in an
effort to keep a nine year old with a bad ankle from racing .

I lived on the hill above mountaineer...played there as a pro. You won't believe what I could tell you about the place. Drugs are just the tip, (most trainers aren't going to spend too much on low level claimers.) Beware of playing your money in W. Va.

However, if you want to see kilos of drugs, you want to look in the barns at SA. They've got the money for the drugs.

[gm10]

It's like saying that flat racing in the UK is too dangerous to horses and using as your evidence examples from the National Hunt.

No, that's not the same. Flat thoroughbred racing isn't dangerous in the UK.

Anyway, I'm glad that you bring up National Hunt racing.

National Hunt racing sometimes goes into the danger zone exactly because of the higher number of breakdowns (which is similar to American dirt, amazingly). Flat racing doesn't get that kind of attention. There simply aren't enough breakdowns for people to get upset about it. It's a cleaner sport over here.

Let me be clear, I don't say this to get a raise out of you. It really is a cleaner sport. You don't get the feeling that the horses are just a commodity, a way to make money. People call them by their name, not their program number. The horses seem to matter.

And it pays off. Going the races remains a great day out for everyone. Gamblers may keep the sport ticking over, but I don't you can keep it going without making a day at the races an attractive way to spend the afternoon for families, fans, young people, etc.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I lived on the hill above mountaineer...played there as a pro. You won't believe what I could tell you about the place. Drugs are just the tip, (most trainers aren't going to spend too much on low level claimers.) Beware of playing your money in W. Va.

However, if you want to see kilos of drugs, you want to look in the barns at SA. They've got the money for the drugs.

Quite an accusation

[pauly]

The Times disdains racing and horseplayers and can be counted on to run at least one negative article about the sport a year. It can also be counted on to drum up support for every phony war and NATO adventure our government deigns profitable to the tune of thousands of people dead. That's why its difficult to take the rag seriously. Nonetheless everything that can be done should be done to make the sport as safe as possible for horses and jockeys; and as legit as possible for the player. But that means consolidating an industry intent on cannibalizing itself; an industry that has nothing but contempt for its degenerate customers; an industry with so called leaders that are NYT readers and have the same contempt for the working class the Times does. By the way, if racing stopped what would happen to the thoroughbred breed? By the way are all these people who are dismayed and disgusted with the sport vegetarians? I hope so because where meat comes from and how its made, i.e. how those animals are "processed" makes horseracing look like animal paradise.

[cj]

No, that's not the same. Flat thoroughbred racing isn't dangerous in the UK.



Now you are being silly. Of course it is dangerous. The levels may be lower, but there are plenty of breakdowns.

[thaskalos]

This is the problem with horseplayers (and those that pretend they are one on the internet). We don't defend our sport against the stupidity of PETA or against the stupidity of this article.

Instead we watch as our sport gets thrown under the bus. Like I said earlier, we need to be careful what we wish for. Eventually, the game will just be shut down and then what would you bitch about everyday?

There are a lot of things that need to be changed in this sport. Making up stuff to suit an agenda, skewing statistics and allowing the PETA's of the world to dictate to the sport how it should be run is ridiculous and is not going to induce any change. We need better leadership at all levels and people that actually care about the sport succeeding long term.
This sport deserves to get thrown under the bus once in a while...so its leadership can wake up and realize that casino profits alone will not sustain the game in the long run.

For years now we have been waiting for the powers that be to address the drug problem, which has been allowed to reach epidemic proportions...and nothing has been done. Drug testing is terribly ineffective and insufficient...and the punishments dished out to the cheating trainers are a joke.

The industry has been given plenty of time to do what needs to be done...but have used that time only to push for casino-style gaming..
to enrich everyone, except the long-suffering fan.

And now the fan is being blamed for not defending the game enough?

No matter what damage this article does to the game...it pales by comparison to the damage inflicted upon it by the industry itself.

[gm10]

Now you are being silly. Of course it is dangerous. The levels may be lower, but there are plenty of breakdowns.

It is a safe sport. One breakdown for every 1500 starters. That is really very little. Also look at the number of jockey's in the US that end up dead or paralysed. There's almost none of that here.

[cj]

It is a safe sport. One breakdown for every 1500 starters. That is really very little. Also look at the number of jockey's in the US that end up dead or paralysed. There's almost none of that here.

I'd go with safer. I've seen plenty some ugly incidents on big days there.

[Robert Goren]

It is a safe sport. One breakdown for every 1500 starters. That is really very little. Also look at the number of jockey's in the US that end up dead or paralysed. There's almost none of that here.Where did you get that number?

[gm10]

I'd go with safer. I've seen plenty some ugly incidents on big days there.

I remember the O'Brien horse at Epsom but nothing else comes to mind.

I've seen a lot of races, and only two breakdowns. One had a heart attack as Ascot, the second was a cheap handicapper that broke down at Lingfield on a cold day in December. I even remember her name ... Telephonist (http://www.racingpost.com/horses/horse_home_popup.sd?horse_id=438684#topHorseTabs=h orse_race_record&bottomHorseTabs=horse_form) .

It just doesn't happen very often.

[nijinski]

No, that's not the same. Flat thoroughbred racing isn't dangerous in the UK.

Anyway, I'm glad that you bring up National Hunt racing.

National Hunt racing sometimes goes into the danger zone exactly because of the higher number of breakdowns (which is similar to American dirt, amazingly). Flat racing doesn't get that kind of attention. There simply aren't enough breakdowns for people to get upset about it. It's a cleaner sport over here.

Let me be clear, I don't say this to get a raise out of you. It really is a cleaner sport. You don't get the feeling that the horses are just a commodity, a way to make money. People call them by their name, not their program number. The horses seem to matter.

And it pays off. Going the races remains a great day out for everyone. Gamblers may keep the sport ticking over, but I don't you can keep it going without making a day at the races an attractive way to spend the afternoon for families, fans, young people, etc.

Five hurdlers at CHT in three days euthanized in March Age 7 to 13 yo olds , that are confirmed. I believe all geldings Very sad . The fences are another mess.

[nearco]

Where did you get that number?

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/equine-science-and-welfare/horsewelfare.asp

Flat = 0.6/1000
Jumps = 4/1000

[nearco]

Australia is something like 0.44/1000, which surprises me given they do so much sprinting and race on firmer ground. They are very proactive on the veterinary end of things from what I hear.

[nijinski]

Well many of us want a Vets list available. I don't think that's alot for the supporting public to ask for. I know New York has been refusing, but I think the new pressures might change that.

On another note New York tracks will be releasing a data base going three years back on all their horse fatalities. Complete with connections names.
An interesting move. They have been doing a pretty good job in getting rid of some owners who's horses ended up on feed lots . They seem to be getting concerned and taking some action.

[Jeff P]

This sport deserves to get thrown under the bus once in a while...so its leadership can wake up and realize that casino profits alone will not sustain the game in the long run.

For years now we have been waiting for the powers that be to address the drug problem, which has been allowed to reach epidemic proportions...and nothing has been done. Drug testing is terribly ineffective and insufficient...and the punishments dished out to the cheating trainers are a joke.

The industry has been given plenty of time to do what needs to be done...but have used that time only to push for casino-style gaming..
to enrich everyone, except the long-suffering fan.

And now the fan is being blamed for not defending the game enough?

No matter what damage this article does to the game...it pales by comparison to the damage inflicted upon it by the industry itself.

Can't say it any better than that... Agree 100%.

-jp

.

[melman]

While I agree with what Thaskalos and Jeff are saying about the people in charge of racing let's not overlook something. Today there are so many more options for the casual gambler. Not just the general public but the general gambling public. At one time casino betting meant Vegas, loto betting meant the local bookie, sports betting was small time. Now casino's are in many many places, plenty of states with loto games both daily numbers and instant ripoff games. Plus mega millions games. Sports betting has exploded with betting on NFL and NCAA now a huge number. There is still a niche market of people who take horse racing very serious (many of them post here) :) The casual gambling public has rejected horse racing. It's hard for me to type that but it is what it is. There will always be horse racing in places like NY, CA, and some southern tracks during the winter months. One track in Ill also and Woodbine in Canada. However IMO the day of the general gambling public looking forward to a meet or talking about it with many others is over. Yes the racing game is the better bet but while we as long time players may not like it has been rejected by the gambling public. The only hope I see is for a LOT of minor tracks to close. The big tracks to have full fields and lot less "super trainers". Lower takeout would help but not that much on most bets. Some tracks are doing a little bit better with the 15% take on pic4/5 bets. I would love to see all the large tracks go with that. Would love to see NYRA with a 15% take on All pic bets. That's NOT a knock on NYRA as I know those rates are set by the state. Just would like to see the powers that be at all large tracks push that item. Many regular everyday serios players might question that. I understand that. However what the racing industry needs and needs badly is the "numbers" casual gambling public. Trying to get more people to enjoy the handicapping and work needed to win or at least hold your own is just not going to hapen IMO.

[Jeff P]

Melman,

I agree with what you are saying to a large extent. What I am about to say is my opinion... an opinion formed after countless conversations with players and after seeing results from multiple player surveys we've done through HANA.

There are 3 primary reasons why the public rejects racing in favor of other forms of gaming:

1. It's the takeout stupid. (Racing's takeout is so high that it makes all other forms of gaming the more attractive gamble whenever you compare them side by side with racing.)

2. Integrity/Drugs. Other forms of gaming are regulated in such a way that there is very little question the game is on the up and up. (Something racing doesn't have.) Get caught cheating in a casino? The police are called. You are arrested and the house WILL prosecute. There's a very good chance you do jail time. Get caught cheating in racing? You get a short suspension and race your horses in your assistant's name while serving out your 5 days. Worse, there are trainers who've gotten long suspensions - or who've been denied licenses by a recognized jurisdiction - and get around it by racing their horses in another state - one that doesn't have reciprocity.

3. Odds that change after the bell. Bet a $5.00 chip on red in roulette and collect $10 (even money) if red comes up. The payoff doesn't drop to $7.40 once the dealer starts spinning the wheel. In racing, bet $5.00 on a horse you think is an overlay at even money facing up to the gate and it's likely that your final odds will be 3/5 or 4/5 by the time they hit the far turn.

I hate to be blunt but I have to call it the way I see it. For as long as I've been active in HANA, track management, horsemen, and state regulators have done everything in their power to bury their collective heads in their collective asses pretending that the above 3 issues don't exist. But these 3 things DO exist. And pretending they don't exist isn't going to make them go away.

The long term downward handle trend, articles like the one just released by the NY Times, and the ones yet to come, and the anti-doping bill that's about to make its way through Congress are the direct result of industry decision makers who deny these 3 things exist and stick to the status quo at all costs.


-jp

.

[Dahoss9698]

This sport deserves to get thrown under the bus once in a while...so its leadership can wake up and realize that casino profits alone will not sustain the game in the long run.

For years now we have been waiting for the powers that be to address the drug problem, which has been allowed to reach epidemic proportions...and nothing has been done. Drug testing is terribly ineffective and insufficient...and the punishments dished out to the cheating trainers are a joke.

The industry has been given plenty of time to do what needs to be done...but have used that time only to push for casino-style gaming..
to enrich everyone, except the long-suffering fan.

And now the fan is being blamed for not defending the game enough?

No matter what damage this article does to the game...it pales by comparison to the damage inflicted upon it by the industry itself.

Oh stop, I'm not blaming the fan. I'm saying that the article is crap. All forms of gambling have integrity issues.

We all know what the problems are with horse racing. And yes, the industry has dropped the ball a lot. I'm not denying it. I've complained about a lot of this stuff for years.

The point I'm trying to make is the article was another NY Times hit piece on horse racing. There is a pattern here.

[Dahoss9698]

I really resent the fact you imply that I don't bet on horses.

The truth hurts.

[Tom]

No, that's not the same. Flat thoroughbred racing isn't dangerous in the UK.



It is exactly the same. T-bred racing at Saratoga has zero to do with Q horse racing in New Mexico.

[JustRalph]

This will die off......sure.

But what happens when a horse breaks down in the Derby? The Preakness? Belmont? These are baby steps........on the road to perdition (http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=sea&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=define%20perdition&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=646dbdd0cedd2082&ix=sea&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1236&bih=565)

[Tom]

At least ESPN won' t be covering racing and exploit the breakdowns ,like they did with 8 Belles. One huge step in cleaning the stench out of racing was getting ESPN out of it.

[Cardus]

This will die off......sure.

But what happens when a horse breaks down in the Derby? The Preakness? Belmont? These are baby steps........on the road to perdition (http://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ix=sea&ie=UTF-8&ion=1#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=define%20perdition&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=646dbdd0cedd2082&ix=sea&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1236&bih=565)

Eight Belles?

Union City?

[Track Phantom]

I have no problem with somebody attacking racing. It needs to be done. There are lots of problems and too many horses dying. But, it should be done right. This guy was all over the place in his writing. Often, his examples are vague, or his conclusions questionable. It is pretty clear to me this guy doesn't understand the game, or didn't do his research. Here are a few examples:



OK...what are the rates here? What is "most of the world", and what are its rates? Which ones are worse since it is only most? Since the NYT did this analysis, did they also study the rest of the world with the same criteria, or did they simply use somebody else's stats?



What is the point? Some day had to be the worse. Isn't it very likely that there are more races run that day than most others, with more horses? Does this somehow relate to it being Kentucky Derby day? Did the casual fan watching the Derby also watch Thistledown and Ruidoso just because of the Derby?



I don't even know where to begin with this one. I don't recall a horses leg ever snapping off during a race. I've seen plenty of humans pull up in distress while racing. Hell, I've done it myself. Luckily we are built a bit differently and don't have to be euthanized most times.



I thought the point of the article was that racinos are largely to blame. How many of those tracks had casinos last year? Hint, it is less than one.



How can it be "as many as"? Either 90 percent do, or they don't. What is the number?



He tries to give the impression that seven horses had problems in the race, when in fact, it was only one. If seven horses fell, any idiot can figure out the seven jockeys were "left scattered on the ground". Those words were just added to inflame the reader, and done so by using a faulty example.

From the same race:



Well, really? Who would have known. I figured there were at least an extra 10 riders hanging out at CharlesTown for the last race, you know, just in case seven fell in the prior. Willing or available? I'm pretty sure available was the answer, but he tries to make it sound like a bunch of excess riders were cowering in the corner with fear. Please.

That is enough for now. Everyone can read the article for themselves.If the writer really understood the game, he could have done so much better. Did he visit a single track or venture to the backstretch? Did he talk to any of the trainers he vilifies (some rightfully so)? Finally, why is there a "horse racing industry as a whole"? The sport has enough issues without being lumped in with quarterhorse racing. He didn't need to do that to write the article, but my guess is it just made it easier for him to write without leaving his desk.

Excellent anaylsis

[PaceAdvantage]

You have helluva low standards.You're quickly becoming nothing but a hump.

[gm10]

Where did you get that number?

BHA website

[FenceBored]

Quick fact from 3 years of EID data for the 24 tracks that allowed their individual summaries to be published: Saratoga's dirt track (0.81 three year combined) has a lower fatality rate than any of the currently installed synthetic tracks in North America.*

*Arlington's data isn't published, but as they are the only one that isn't I can see that it has to be higher than Saratoga's main track.

[5k-claim]

Let me be clear, I don't say this to get a raise out of you. It really is a cleaner sport. You don't get the feeling that the horses are just a commodity, a way to make money. People call them by their name, not their program number. The horses seem to matter. I don't think this work warrants a raise, so it's a good thing you weren't going for one.

Who are you talking about?

.

[Cardus]

You're quickly becoming nothing but a hump.

Certain posters' bogus ideas are protected, I suppose.

Que sera.

[PaceAdvantage]

Certain posters' bogus ideas are protected, I suppose.

Que sera.Emphasis on the word certain...as in certain posters are constantly in your cross hairs...give it a freakin' rest. Make your point without beating others over the head.

You could have so easily stated your opinion about Drape without all the other "Here Grits, here's another stomp for you" side business....

Coming off as a mean SOB is no way to go through life son...

[CincyHorseplayer]

Quick fact from 3 years of EID data for the 24 tracks that allowed their individual summaries to be published: Saratoga's dirt track (0.81 three year combined) has a lower fatality rate than any of the currently installed synthetic tracks in North America.*

*Arlington's data isn't published, but as they are the only one that isn't I can see that it has to be higher than Saratoga's main track.

I think these numbers and the ones from Turfway illustrate what many of us have suspected all along=the issue is more high class vs low class than dirt vs synthetic.We get these black and white stats and finger waggers in our face if we don't accept them as one,immutable,eternal truth.

[Dahoss9698]

Emphasis on the word certain...as in certain posters are constantly in your cross hairs...give it a freakin' rest. Make your point without beating others over the head.


Isn't Cardus constantly in certain posters cross hairs?

[FenceBored]

I think these numbers and the ones from Turfway illustrate what many of us have suspected all along=the issue is more high class vs low class than dirt vs synthetic.We get these black and white stats and finger waggers in our face if we don't accept them as one,immutable,eternal truth.

Just to confuse matters, take a look at Sacramento (0.00), Fresno (0.58), and Stockton (1.05). I can't imagine those are high class TBs running the CA Fair Circuit. Me, I'll just wave my hands and go "small sample size."

[PaceAdvantage]

Isn't Cardus constantly in certain posters cross hairs?I can confidently answer that question with a resounding NO...

You on the other hand, are another story...but then again, you both bring a certain amount of this on yourselves with the style you use to engage...

[Dahoss9698]

I can confidently answer that question with a resounding NO...

You on the other hand, are another story...but then again, you both bring a certain amount of this on yourselves with the style you use to engage...

Yeah...wrong answer. I can think of at least one "guy" who constantly has Cardus in his cross hairs.

[FenceBored]

Tying the EID data back to the NYT article (before branching out to a different thread), today a few more tracks had their individual EID summaries released. Two of them (the Indiana tracks) released both QH and TB figures, allowing for a comparison between them. Of course, it can be argued that the difference in sample size limits the usefulness, but that's never stopped us before (;)).

Anyhow, taking the individual surfaces at each of the publishing tracks as a separate line item (currently 51 entries), combining the numbers for 2009-2011, and ranking by fatality rate ...

Indiana Downs (QH) comes in at #2.
Indiana Downs (TB) on dirt comes in at #27.

Hoosier Park (QH) is #32.
Hoosier Park (TB) is #33.

This is significant, as one of the main questions/complaints against the NYT article is the comparitive safety of QH vs. TB racing. The data from Indiana might illustrate that safety problems in the Southwest with QH racing may not be a function of QH racing per se, but reflect local practices or surfaces.

[Tom]

How convenient for old Joe Drape that he didn't use stats from harness racing.
Could it have been an oversight, or would that have made his manufactured statistics look not as bad, and after all, it was a hit piece by a stinking hack without a shred of integrity or talent.

[Grits]

I wonder how much input Joe Drape might have really had. Wasn't he getting old (not that there is anything wrong with that) when he retired 10 years ago? Just thinking he might have been had, like, apparently, the rest of us. From what I've heard of him, this piece just doesn't seem in character.

You've got the wrong individual. Joe Drape has a 6 year old son, and most likely is in his early to mid forties--if that.

[Pace Cap'n]

In that case, never mind.

[Cardus]

Emphasis on the word certain...as in certain posters are constantly in your cross hairs...give it a freakin' rest. Make your point without beating others over the head.

You could have so easily stated your opinion about Drape without all the other "Here Grits, here's another stomp for you" side business....

Coming off as a mean SOB is no way to go through life son...

Oh, really?

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh, really?Really...I guess you're no fan of Animal House...

[Cardus]

Really...I guess you're no fan of Animal House...

Great movie. Big fan.

[affirmedny]

You've got the wrong individual. Joe Drape has a 6 year old son, and most likely is in his early to mid forties--if that.

he's thinking of Joe Durso

[Cardus]

Maybe I missed the thread devoted to Steve Crist's excellent, pertinent rebuttal to The New York Times' intellectually dishonest piece, but here is a link:

http://www.drf.com/news/crist-home-brewed-stats-skew-times-analysis

Like Beyer, he covers the relevant bases and blasts away at the shoddy reporting and seemingly pre-conclusions of the Times' "reporting" team.

Also, another reliable critic weighs in:

http://leftatthegate.blogspot.com/2012/03mangled-journalism.html

I saw both pieces courtesy of Steve Byk, who posted them at Derbytrail.

It is interesting -- or maybe predictable -- that there has been little defense here of Drape's piece after the initial wave of agreement and hand-wringing.

In my opinion, a little more discernment was in order.

[Grits]

Yeah, bloggers have won numerous writing awards. Why don't you try allowing more of the series to run before you keep hacking and berating?
...... Well, this being a stupid question because you wouldn't know how to stop beating yourself across the chest like an ape high in the trees of the Amazon if you tried. Jane Goodall and Diane Fossey would love you. (God, they're the only two.)

[5k-claim]

Maybe I missed the thread devoted to Steve Crist's excellent, pertinent rebuttal to The New York Times' intellectually dishonest piece, but here is a link:

http://www.drf.com/news/crist-home-brewed-stats-skew-times-analysis

Like Beyer, he covers the relevant bases and blasts away at the shoddy reporting and seemingly pre-conclusions of the Times' "reporting" team.
From the Crist article: “The doping of injured horses and forcing them to compete is deplorable and must be stopped,” said Rep. Ed Whitfield of Kentucky, who is trying to revive his and Udall’s failed 2008 bill that would put racing under the control of the Food and Drug Administration and ban the use of therapeutic raceday medications. It is unclear at best that either of those steps would improve equine welfare or racing safety. Unclear at best, indeed.

And this from a member of the media? Impressive.

We need so desperately in this sport ever-improving drug testing and strong penalties for violators, not jokes in the form of slaps on the wrist. Until there exists actual deterrents (in the form of rock-solid penalties) for drug violators our horses will remain squarely in harm's way.

It is in the testing and enforcement of current drug policies, and the creation of actual deterrents, where the safety of horses can (and I will say would) be markedly improved.

.

[Tom]

Was there part 2 this week?
What did he attack this week, motherhood and apple pie?

[turninforhome10]

Here is how our sport was just portrayed on the tabloid show Inside Edition
Can only find the reference to the story as it airs today but very damaging.
Their attack method, as expected; Barbaro, Charles Town Race, Jacky Martin and the now infamous QH picture. Also made reference to snake venom. The demographics of those who watch Inside Edition would have been sickened IMHO
http://www.insideedition.com/news/7961/inside-edition-investigates-horse-injuries-at-race-tracks.aspx

[JustRalph]

Was there part 2 this week?
What did he attack this week, motherhood and apple pie?

They are waiting on more break downs?

[FenceBored]

They are waiting on more break downs?

Wood Memorial day, or the morning after.

[Tom]

The Curse of the Wood. :eek:

[Cardus]

From the Crist article: Unclear at best, indeed.

And this from a member of the media? Impressive.

We need so desperately in this sport ever-improving drug testing and strong penalties for violators, not jokes in the form of slaps on the wrist. Until there exists actual deterrents (in the form of rock-solid penalties) for drug violators our horses will remain squarely in harm's way.

It is in the testing and enforcement of current drug policies, and the creation of actual deterrents, where the safety of horses can (and I will say would) be markedly improved.

.

I agree that the sport needs improved drug testing and stronger penalties, but Crist did not address those issues in what you quoted, above.

He believes that it is "unclear at best" that placing racing under the FDA's control and banning "therapeutic raceday medications" would improve the Thoroughbreds' welfare.

On these matters -- particularly the first -- Crist is correct when he concludes that it is "unclear at best" that they would aid racing.

[5k-claim]

I agree that the sport needs improved drug testing and stronger penalties, but Crist did not address those issues in what you quoted, above.

He believes that it is "unclear at best" that placing racing under the FDA's control and banning "therapeutic raceday medications" would improve the Thoroughbreds' welfare.

On these matters -- particularly the first -- Crist is correct when he concludes that it is "unclear at best" that they would aid racing.That's right. In my post I simply acknowledged, and appreciated, that Crist had described both of those items as "unclear at best".

After that, the rest of my post was just my own statement about the need for ever-improving drug testing, and strong penalties for violators. It was a separate subject, sort of. (And by the way, an area of concern where I would vote for spending a percentage of slot money, for sure. That would certainly be something positive to come out of extra money to everyone's benefit.)

Sticking just with Crist, I really respect his article. And not just because I agree with it. There are other industry writers who are a little more content to connect legal doses of raceday meds, in particular Lasix, with all of the problems of racing, including breakdowns. I personally feel that is at least a little bit lazy and sloppy- if not downright opportunistic. Certainly the entire issue is not so black and white. I guess on this topic I appreciate that Crist has put in the time and thought necessary to have apparently landed himself on one of the shades of gray.

.

[Cardus]

That's right. In my post I simply acknowledged, and appreciated, that Crist had described both of those items as "unclear at best".

After that, the rest of my post was just my own statement about the need for ever-improving drug testing, and strong penalties for violators. It was a separate subject, sort of. (And by the way, an area of concern where I would vote for spending a percentage of slot money, for sure. That would certainly be something positive to come out of extra money to everyone's benefit.)

Sticking just with Crist, I really respect his article. And not just because I agree with it. There are other industry writers who are a little more content to connect legal doses of raceday meds, in particular Lasix, with all of the problems of racing, including breakdowns. I personally feel that is at least a little bit lazy and sloppy- if not downright opportunistic. Certainly the entire issue is not so black and white. I guess on this topic I appreciate that Crist has put in the time and thought necessary to have apparently landed himself on one of the shades of gray.

.

Oh, I thought that you were knocking him.

I see.

[nearco]

Thoroughbred Times did an analysis of charts from 2009-2011 (same ones NY times used).
They then went back and did a chart analysis from 1999-2001 and compared that to the 2009-11 figures.
Overall there has been a significant increase in "incidents" over the decade.

Article
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2012/04/11/increase-in-injury.aspx#

The tables
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/media/pdfs/breakdowntablespart2.pdf

[5k-claim]

Thoroughbred Times did an analysis of charts from 2009-2011 (same ones NY times used).
They then went back and did a chart analysis from 1999-2001 and compared that to the 2009-11 figures.
Overall there has been a significant increase in "incidents" over the decade.

Article
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2012/04/11/increase-in-injury.aspx#

The tables
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/media/pdfs/breakdowntablespart2.pdfThis is an interesting (sort of) look at the evolution of chart calling terminology over the years at American racetracks.

For example, the term "Euthanized" was not invented until after 2001.

Also, "vanned off" could be precautionary and "lame" could cover a wide range of "incidents"- some much more long-term and serious than others. I guess it would just depend on whoever was writing the chart, how sharp their eyes were, and how much detail and effort they wanted to put in.

.

[Tom]

Put all the lipstick on that pig you want, using the charts for your data is bogus.
He made up data to further his agenda and he lied. The man has no credibility.

[johnhannibalsmith]

March 18, Summers at Delmar, pulled up, vanned off at Santa Anita.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/SA031812USA6.pdf

Six days later, March 24, Summers at Delmar, pulled up, vanned off at Turf Paradise.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/TUP032412USA2.pdf

...

The hat trick. Connections should be very, very proud. Three van rides in three consecutive starts.

http://equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/TUP042712USA6.pdf

[tzipi]

The hat trick. Connections should be very, very proud. Three van rides in three consecutive starts.

http://equibase.com/static/chart/pdf/TUP042712USA6.pdf


That's ridiculous. Why is the trainer or track letting this horse run for? To watch it break down? :mad:

[BombsAway Bob]

That's ridiculous. Why is the trainer or track letting this horse run for? To watch it break down? :mad:
this is gonna sound odd, but one of the first things i feared
when Suffolk Downs got tough of T'Breds going to slaughter,
was some dirtbags would just use it as an excuse to run horses
until they literally drop dead on the track, or are banned by the
Track Vet for coming to the track in poor shape multiple times.
i hope i'm wrong.

[cj]

Do we have to wait for 2017 for part 2?

[JustRalph]

Do we have to wait for 2017 for part 2?

I've been wondering about this. What's up?

[Wingtips]

I've been wondering about this. What's up?

Educated guess- next Saturday the 5th.

To maximize exposure, the online edition will be posted in the pm (same day as Derby) and the print format will be front page Sunday morning.

Again, just a prediction.

[toetoe]

As long as we are looking to get the facts straight, Ali spent the night after the fight in the hospitol, georgie went out drinking.



If our sport is Chuvalo, we're not even down; forget about out. :jump:

[menifee]

Originally Posted by menifee

"The states have created artificial subsidies with slot money. As with any other state subsidy (i.e., post-graduate education), the quality of the product suffers and the quantity supplied expands because the market is distorted. Thus, you have people entering lame and injured horses in an attempt to chase that money. Those New Mexico tracks would not survive without the artificial subsidy."

Marlin's response:


This is some nonsense. The first and last sentences are correct. However, what is in the middle makes it a bull**** sandwich. People chase that money regardless. A guy with a horse at a slot subsidized track is no more likely to enter a "lame or injured" horse than a guy at a track with no slots. In fact, the incentive would be greater with bigger purses to take a more patient approach. Your logic is dangerous because somebody might read it and actually be dumb enough to believe it. Whats next, slot subsidies killed Kennedy?

Marlin, please read this article and let me know if you still disagree.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/us/casino-cash-fuels-use-of-injured-horses-at-racetracks.html?_r=2