Corzine in Deep Doo Doo

[badcompany]

Apparently, there's an internal email from Corzine authorizing the transfer of funds out of customer accounts. He has previously testified before Congress and said he didn't knowingly do this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-23/mf-global-s-corzine-ordered-funds-moved-to-jpmorgan-memo-says.html

[ArlJim78]

keep in mind Biden and Obama stated that Corzine is the first person they turn to regarding economic matters, and was on the short list for treasury secretary.

[badcompany]

keep in mind Biden and Obama stated that Corzine is the first person they turn to regarding economic matters, and was on the short list for treasury secretary.

Definitely good political ammo for Romney.

[boxcar]

keep in mind Biden and Obama stated that Corzine is the first person they turn to regarding economic matters, and was on the short list for treasury secretary.

No wonder they liked him. Birds of a feather and all that...

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Definitely good political ammo for Romney.

But he's so PC, will he use it? :rolleyes: Besides, the left will blame Bush for Corzine's woes. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[NJ Stinks]

Apparently, there's an internal email from Corzine authorizing the transfer of funds out of customer accounts. He has previously testified before Congress and said he didn't knowingly do this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-23/mf-global-s-corzine-ordered-funds-moved-to-jpmorgan-memo-says.html

That internal e-mail was not sent by Corzine. It was sent by "Edith O’Brien, a treasurer for the firm" according to your link.

[badcompany]

That internal e-mail was not sent by Corzine. It was sent by "Edith O’Brien, a treasurer for the firm" according to your link.


"Edith O’Brien, a treasurer for the firm, said in an e-mail sent the afternoon of Oct. 28, three days before the company collapsed, that the transfer of the funds was “Per JC’s direct instructions,” according to a copy of a memo drafted by congressional investigators and obtained by Bloomberg News."



Technically, you are correct, but it still doesn't look good for "JC." Then again, maybe she meant Jimmy Carter, Jenny Craig or Jim Carrey.:lol:

[PhantomOnTour]

I'm quite sure she meant John Coltraine

[badcompany]

I'm quite sure she meant John Coltraine

This just in. "JC" was really John Connor from the Terminator. Since he's from the future, his market forecasts tend to be spot on.:ThmbUp:

[HUSKER55]

JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT COULDN'T GET WORSE SOMEONE FROM THE FUTURE COMES BACKS TO GET SOME DIGS IN....:D

[JustRalph]

http://americanwiki.pbworks.com/f/1291840429/jekyll.jpg

[boxcar]

"Edith O’Brien, a treasurer for the firm, said in an e-mail sent the afternoon of Oct. 28, three days before the company collapsed, that the transfer of the funds was “Per JC’s direct instructions,” according to a copy of a memo drafted by congressional investigators and obtained by Bloomberg News."



Technically, you are correct, but it still doesn't look good for "JC." Then again, maybe she meant Jimmy Carter, Jenny Craig or Jim Carrey.:lol:

Hey, Stinky, how in the world did you miss that highlighted phrase? On second thought, don't answer that. I know how. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[bigmack]

I'm quite sure she meant John Coltraine
I'm real sure you got Coltrane wrong.

==========

One down, one to go.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_OrVZvhF2wI/TrQzYlLru3I/AAAAAAAAANk/4YyOw-qgVOw/s400/ObamaCorzine.jpg

Corzine, booted from Sachs in '99, after pocketing a cool $400M, used $62 million of that haul to buy a Democrat seat in the Senate.

Then spent $38 million to buy the New Jersey governorship, which he then lost in to C2.

This guy is a piece of work.

[PhantomOnTour]

Jimmy Cliff !

The harder they come the harder they fall...one and all.

[NJ Stinks]

Hey, Stinky, how in the world did you miss that highlighted phrase? On second thought, don't answer that. I know how. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

The e-mail did not come from Corzine. Even you can understand that slight technicality. No?

John Corzine is not my favorite Democrat. But he' still entitled to his day in court.

[bigmack]

The e-mail did not come from Corzine. Even you can understand that slight technicality. No?
John Corzine is not my favorite Democrat. But he' still entitled to his day in court.
Oh he'll have his day in court alright.

Could you be any more purblind? You think he has an 'out' against her word of saying he authorized it?

No wait, you think Edith had the authority to green light the use of customer funds. :D

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/899.png

[boxcar]

You're wasting your time, Mack. NJ is as blind as a bat. NJ probably even thinks this gal is going to be the defense's strongest witness. :lol:

Boxcar

[WPL]

The best thing to happen to NJ was getting that corzine punk out of office.

And The Sopranos.

And That Female Anteater, Snooki.

And Cypress Hill...

Where'd the cash go, Jon? What happened to The Cash?

http://youtu.be/ZwJQy2BkJ-o

[fast4522]

another rendition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdbSikEtjDQ

[badcompany]

You're wasting your time, Mack. NJ is as blind as a bat. NJ probably even thinks this gal is going to be the defense's strongest witness. :lol:

Boxcar

NJ should be overjoyed that Corzine is out of office and that New Jersey has a Governor with integrity:

http://crooksandliars.com/files/vfs/2010/10/chris-christie.jpg

[plainolebill]

The treasurer, O'brien has stated that she will take the 5th unless granted complete immunity - hard to figure what's going to happen - if she gets immunity she might just own the whole thing and let JC walk.

[JustRalph]

Prediction:

JC flees the country or puts a bullet in his own head

[Let's Roll]

Prediction:

JC flees the country or puts a bullet in his own head
Or maybe he gets a pardon from a lame duck president.

[bigmack]

if she gets immunity she might just own the whole thing and let JC walk.
I'm fairly sure if she's afforded immunity it would be only on the condition she sing like a canary against Corzing.

[plainolebill]

I hope you're right, the scumbag should hang. Ex-Goldman guy to boot. :mad:

[Robert Goren]

I heard on CNBC that what he did retail banks do everyday with the money in your checking account. Is that true? Do banks take the money out of your deposits and invest it and then put it back when you withdrawl it. Is the only difference is that the bank are better at investing it than Corzine?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by NJ Stinks
The e-mail did not come from Corzine. Even you can understand that slight technicality. No?
John Corzine is not my favorite Democrat. But he' still entitled to his day in court.

His day in court and his years in jail. Yes. He is entitled.

[badcompany]

I heard on CNBC that what he did retail banks do everyday with the money in your checking account. Is that true? Do banks take the money out of your deposits and invest it and then put it back when you withdrawl it. Is the only difference is that the bank are better at investing it than Corzine?

There is a grain of truth to what you say, but, the difference is leverage. A bank takes in $100 in deposits and normally can lend out about $90.

My guess is that Corzine was levered up 20 or 30 to 1. In other words, for every $100 he had in capital, he borrowed 2 or 3k which he then invested. I say this because bonds are much less volatile than stocks and to lose heavily, quickly, you have to be so levered up that a small swing the wrong way can bust you.

[PhantomOnTour]

I heard on CNBC that what he did retail banks do everyday with the money in your checking account. Is that true? Do banks take the money out of your deposits and invest it and then put it back when you withdrawl it. Is the only difference is that the bank are better at investing it than Corzine?
See the sig of Swetyejohn

[ElKabong]

Corruption to the core.

110-1 this guy doesn't do time on Obama's watch.

[mostpost]

There is a grain of truth to what you say, but, the difference is leverage. A bank takes in $100 in deposits and normally can lend out about $90.
That is not what I have heard. Let me say that I am far from an expert on banking, but I have heard this from a number of sources.
If you deposit $100 in an account, the bank can use that $100 as collateral to borrow $1,000 from the Federal Reserve and can then loan out that $1,000

My guess is that Corzine was levered up 20 or 30 to 1. In other words, for every $100 he had in capital, he borrowed 2 or 3k which he then invested. I say this because bonds are much less volatile than stocks and to lose heavily, quickly, you have to be so levered up that a small swing the wrong way can bust you.

Of course I understand that what I have written in bold above is not the same as what Corzine allegedly did. Corzine's actions were more akin to if I were to take money out of the cash drawer at the Post Office in order to pay for my losses at the track. Even if I intended to pay the money back, I would be committing a crime. The same would appear to apply to Corzine.

[mostpost]

Corruption to the core.

110-1 this guy doesn't do time on Obama's watch.
I'll take that bet, contingent on Obama being elected to a second term. There is just no way that an investigation, indictment and trial would be completed in the next 10 months.

As proof of my sincerity, I am taking an envelope, writing "ELKabong" on the face and inserting a penny which I will send on Jan. 21, 2017. IF I lose.

[badcompany]

That is not what I have heard. Let me say that I am far from an expert on banking, but I have heard this from a number of sources.
If you deposit $100 in an account, the bank can use that $100 as collateral to borrow $1,000 from the Federal Reserve and can then loan out that $1,000

What you're describing is the "Money Multiplier" effect, which goes as follows: You put $100 in the bank. The bank then can lend out $90 (this assumes a 10% reserve requirement). The $90 eventually ends up in a bank, which then can lend out $81 (90% of of $90) this process repeats until the original $100 becomes about 1K in loanable funds. This also explains why the banking system, as it's currently constituted, is inherently unstable.

The only time a bank borrows directly from the Fed is via the "Discount Window" which serves as the Lender of Last Resort. Banks are very hesitant to use this method as it is a tipoff that they're having funding problems.

The Fed primarily operates through the "Repo" market, which is a market for high quality securities. When the Fed wants to add cash to the banking system, it buys securities. When it wants to drain cash, it sells. Where does the Fed get the money? Out of thin air.

As a Primary Dealer, Corzine's company was also allowed to operate in the Repo Market and do so in this manner: Corzine has $100 which he uses to buys securities. He then uses those securities as collateral to buy more securities. This process can conceivably go on forever. The more he does this, the more leverage his company takes on and the less of a swing is necessary to wipe him out.

Of course I understand that what I have written in bold above is not the same as what Corzine allegedly did. Corzine's actions were more akin to if I were to take money out of the cash drawer at the Post Office in order to pay for my losses at the track. Even if I intended to pay the money back, I would be committing a crime. The same would appear to apply to Corzine.

This analogy is spot on.

[chickenhead]

I thought this was all about rehypothecation....In which case it isn't exactly so cut and dry.

Everything I've read about rehypothecation sounds like it *should* be illegal, to any normal person, but it isn't.

[Shelby]

We lost $17,000 due to all of this. My husband buys and sells lumber futures and used MF as the clearing house (I think that's the correct term). We own a lumber company, so at times we would actually take delivery of the lumber. Anyway, that weekend when the crap hit the fan, we scrambled and got some of the money finally returned to us....after a MOUNTAIN of paperwork. They are still holding the $17,000 and the last word was they "can't find it right now".

Sigh. It's a big mess.

[badcompany]

I thought this was all about rehypothecation....In which case it isn't exactly so cut and dry.

Everything I've read about rehypothecation sounds like it *should* be illegal, to any normal person, but it isn't.

Rehypothecation - I borrow money from a broker to buy securities. That broker can then use those securities as collateral to buy securities for the brokerage's account.

Apparently, the amounts that were rehypothecated were far less than the money missing. Oops!

IMO, rehypothecation is just a smokescreen. As a Primary Dealer, MF Global had access to plenty of credit. Corzine just made a heavily leveraged bet that went down the toilet and when the bill arrived he panicked and paid it using money that wasn't his.

[mostpost]

What you're describing is the "Money Multiplier" effect, which goes as follows: You put $100 in the bank. The bank then can lend out $90 (this assumes a 10% reserve requirement). The $90 eventually ends up in a bank, which then can lend out $81 (90% of of $90) this process repeats until the original $100 becomes about 1K in loanable funds. This also explains why the banking system, as it's currently constituted, is inherently unstable.

The only time a bank borrows directly from the Fed is via the "Discount Window" which serves as the Lender of Last Resort. Banks are very hesitant to use this method as it is a tipoff that they're having funding problems.

The Fed primarily operates through the "Repo" market, which is a market for high quality securities. When the Fed wants to add cash to the banking system, it buys securities. When it wants to drain cash, it sells. Where does the Fed get the money? Out of thin air.

As a Primary Dealer, Corzine's company was also allowed to operate in the Repo Market and do so in this manner: Corzine has $100 which he uses to buys securities. He then uses those securities as collateral to buy more securities. This process can conceivably go on forever. The more he does this, the more leverage his company takes on and the less of a swing is necessary to wipe him out.



This analogy is spot on.
Thank you for that explanation. I wrote what I had heard many years ago in a community college class. That is what I remembered, but I am sure your explanation is the correct one.

[Shemp Howard]

She'll offer up "JC" meant Jesus Christ then her liar will use an insanity defense....for a few million of Corzslime's cash.