One problem with racing

[classhandicapper]

Someone is going to have to explain to me why Oaklawn and the Fair Grounds are running the New Orleans Ladies and The Azeri on the same day, at the same distance, for the same money.

Instead of having one great race with a large field they have one good field with 5 horses and one walkover prep with 5 horses.

It makes no sense that these kinds of things aren't coordinated a little better among tracks so that fans get to see one great race or two great races scheduled appropriately. It would generate more interest and a potentially larger handle for both tracks.

[jelly]

Owners and trainers up here.


Fans ....
































































































































down here.

[Robert Fischer]

racing is wayyyy under-developed.

There is a lot of money to be made.

[Tom]

Fans count?
:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Surely you jest, and yes, I will stop calling you Shirley.

[JustRalph]

Someone is going to have to explain to me why Oaklawn and the Fair Grounds are running the New Orleans Ladies and The Azeri on the same day, at the same distance, for the same money.

Instead of having one great race with a large field they have one good field with 5 horses and one walkover prep with 5 horses.

It makes no sense that these kinds of things aren't coordinated a little better among tracks so that fans get to see one great race or two great races scheduled appropriately. It would generate more interest and a potentially larger handle for both tracks.

You really don't understand? These two tracks are competing against each other. They are a 500 miles apart and serve their own self interests. That is all they care about. "Racing" is not like the NFL or MLB where owners have the same interests. Racing, is competition, and state control means so much more than any other sport. That's why it is falling apart..........

[PaceAdvantage]

Owners and trainers up here.


Fans ....


down here.This was so very helpful...thank you!

[classhandicapper]

You really don't understand? These two tracks are competing against each other. They are a 500 miles apart and serve their own self interests. That is all they care about. "Racing" is not like the NFL or MLB where owners have the same interests. Racing, is competition, and state control means so much more than any other sport. That's why it is falling apart..........

Yea, but even Coke and Pepsi eventually figured out that certain things they were doing were hurting both of them. :bang:

[Tom]

It is not hurting them - this way, TWO owners get win purses, TWO trainers get win purses, TWO jockeys get win purses......see?

[Jasonm921]

Because we are fans of the biggest Sham in sports. They launder money...in some cases government money into their own pockets. We care about competitive balance.. they care about account balance that's it. It is run by "them" and for "them". this is why racing will be severely diminished if not eradicated in the coming decades. Sad but true.

[Jasonm921]

On a side note...I'm trying to help more horses (like a cat chasing his tail). These are for Our Mims horse haven...take a look if interested. All proceeds go to them. http://www.ebay.com/sch/tah831/m.html?hash=item2c63e52e16&item=190654524950&pt=US_Solo_Sports_Fan_Shop&_trksid=p4340.l2562

Thanks

[mannyberrios]

Hey Jelly, how did you do that?

[5k-claim]

Because we are fans of the biggest Sham in sports. They launder money...in some cases government money into their own pockets. We care about competitive balance.. they care about account balance that's it. It is run by "them" and for "them". this is why racing will be severely diminished if not eradicated in the coming decades. Sad but true.Well, at least you guys have now extended the estimated time of death to "decades".

.

[The Hawk]

It is not hurting them - this way, TWO owners get win purses, TWO trainers get win purses, TWO jockeys get win purses......see?

So you think the tracks carded these races this way to benefit the owners, trainers and jockeys?

The point is the tracks, the two tracks who decided to card these races in this way, are costing themselves money by making these stupid decisions. AND they're killing interest in the game by putting on two substandard races rather than one good one. I thought classhandicapper made a great point.

[JustRalph]

So you think the tracks carded these races this way to benefit the owners, trainers and jockeys?

The point is the tracks, the two tracks who decided to card these races in this way, are costing themselves money by making these stupid decisions. AND they're killing interest in the game by putting on two substandard races rather than one good one. I thought classhandicapper made a great point.

I think you missed my point. I was pointing out that they don't look beyond their own fences. I believe that is what Tom is referring to. they only care about who gets paid inside their own fences. If that means two sub standard races 500 miles apart, so be it. There definitely is only one 'I' in racing.

[The Bit]

I agree. I don't know the logistics behind the scenes, but from a wagering and fan stand pointbit sure would make sense to not run these races against one another.

[Tom]

So you think the tracks carded these races this way to benefit the owners, trainers and jockeys?

The point is the tracks, the two tracks who decided to card these races in this way, are costing themselves money by making these stupid decisions. AND they're killing interest in the game by putting on two substandard races rather than one good one. I thought classhandicapper made a great point.

Yes, I do.
Which one would be willing to give up a race?
This way, twice as many people make money.

[The Hawk]

I don't think either needs to give up a race, they just need to schedule it better. Now, if you want to say, "Which would one give up the date they've been on for years?", you'd be 100% right. That's the problem, there's no cooperation, even if it meant more money in handle.

[HuggingTheRail]

http://derbybarandgrill.com/railbird/index.php/2012/03/news-bulletin-from-horse-racing-management-committee/6565

The fans don't count in Vancouver either...

Here in Vancouver, it has been publicized that this may be the last year of racing at Hastings. As part of the deal between Great Canadian and the City of Vancouver that allowed the installation of slots at Hastings, the company was required to do upgrades to the barn, build a parkade, and some other improvements. Great Canadian appears to be trying to back out of some components of the deal, claiming they are not making the expected amount of money from the slots. The lease is up later this year.

Now, in the link, you will see that the Horse Racing Committee is going to consult with " all aspects of the industry including owners, breeders, trainers, track employees, the track operator and other interested stakeholders such as municipalities where track facilities are currently located".

[Cardus]

Because we are fans of the biggest Sham in sports. They launder money...in some cases government money into their own pockets. We care about competitive balance.. they care about account balance that's it. It is run by "them" and for "them". this is why racing will be severely diminished if not eradicated in the coming decades. Sad but true.

If racing is "eradicated", then what will happen to Internet Land racing chat rooms?

THIS concerns me greatly.

[PaceAdvantage]

If racing is "eradicated", then what will happen to Internet Land racing chat rooms?

THIS concerns me greatly.What other type of chat room are there, other than "Internet Land?"

[thespaah]

Someone is going to have to explain to me why Oaklawn and the Fair Grounds are running the New Orleans Ladies and The Azeri on the same day, at the same distance, for the same money.

Instead of having one great race with a large field they have one good field with 5 horses and one walkover prep with 5 horses.

It makes no sense that these kinds of things aren't coordinated a little better among tracks so that fans get to see one great race or two great races scheduled appropriately. It would generate more interest and a potentially larger handle for both tracks.
This is one of my pet peeves. Too many graded stakes/handicaps. Trainers can choose from several events and find the softest fields. The result is 5 or 6 starters with 1/5 favorites. Who wants to bet on that crap
The number of graded stakes should be halved.

[CincyHorseplayer]

This is one of my pet peeves. Too many graded stakes/handicaps. Trainers can choose from several events and find the softest fields. The result is 5 or 6 starters with 1/5 favorites. Who wants to bet on that crap
The number of graded stakes should be halved.

I won 80% of my money last year on maidens and stakes.Everything in between was garbage.If all the stakes horses choose to go in allowance races don't you see nothing but more chalk?

[Jasonm921]

If racing is "eradicated", then what will happen to Internet Land racing chat rooms?

THIS concerns me greatly.

We will still be on here but our arguments will be similar to the youtube argument over who was better? Sunday Silence or Easy Goer? Did you ever see those threads on the bottom of those racing videos? You would think they ran last week.

[Fager Fan]

This is one of my pet peeves. Too many graded stakes/handicaps. Trainers can choose from several events and find the softest fields. The result is 5 or 6 starters with 1/5 favorites. Who wants to bet on that crap
The number of graded stakes should be halved.

Yet only one of the races was graded, which makes your argument meaningless in this context.

[Fager Fan]

Because we are fans of the biggest Sham in sports. They launder money...in some cases government money into their own pockets.

You actually said this? And no one's called you on it?

[The Hawk]

They must have seen this thread: :cool:

http://www.app.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012303180014

[thespaah]

Yet only one of the races was graded, which makes your argument meaningless in this context.
Non sequitur.
I was referring to the overall conditions of the sport.
You are arguing just to argue. DO me a favor, don't post back to me. I have no interest in debating with people who play 'gotcha'...

[Jasonm921]

You actually said this? And no one's called you on it?


If you get a stipend from the government and funnel it into accounts (purses) that will eventually make it back to your own pockets it is a) laundering and 2) considered a slush fund. They haven't distributed funds back to the public, have they? Have they made plans to upgrade facilities at Aqueduct and Belmont where the backbone of their operation resides? The only changes they have made is increasing purses which affects how many people? They made plans for upgrades to Saratoga....but which parts? For the common patron? No for the areas where the month long private party takes place.....and for who? The same people they increased purses for. This isn't private money they are using...you are aware of that. The handout by NY has been going on for quite some time. You called....I answered.

[Jasonm921]

This is one of my pet peeves. Too many graded stakes/handicaps. Trainers can choose from several events and find the softest fields. The result is 5 or 6 starters with 1/5 favorites. Who wants to bet on that crap
The number of graded stakes should be halved.


I agree.

[5k-claim]

If you get a stipend from the government and funnel it into accounts (purses) that will eventually make it back to your own pockets it is a) laundering and 2) considered a slush fund. ...You called....I answered.Who is "you"?

.

[Jasonm921]

In this case NYRA.

[5k-claim]

In this case NYRA. OK.... so in your original statement, which was:If you get a stipend from the government and funnel it into accounts (purses) that will eventually make it back to your own pockets it is a) laundering and 2) considered a slush fund. ...You called....I answered..... we can replace "you" with "NYRA"? So that it reads:If NYRA get a stipend from the government and funnel it into accounts (purses) that will eventually make it back to NYRA's own pockets it is a) laundering and 2) considered a slush fund. ...You called....I answered.Is this what you are saying?

.

[Jasonm921]

NYRA or even Monmouth the last few years....but if you want to play semantics then go ahead...where is the rebuttal?

[5k-claim]

NYRA or even Monmouth the last few years....but if you want to play semantics then go ahead...where is the rebuttal?It has nothing at all to do with "semantics", Jasonm. I am just trying to figure out what the hell you are talking about.

I don't know how things work at NYRA or Monmouth, but I can tell you any extra money in purses that I have ever received have gone to:

* The hay or straw guy
* The vet
* Uncle Sam
* a truck dealer
* The excercise rider

and on a few occasions...

* Best Buy

Was I supposed to be giving this back to whoever gave it to me?

.

[Jasonm921]

You are incidental (if you are indeed a 5g claiming operation) to the big picture....take a look at the board members of NYRA. These are the guys who have determined that the 12 million dollars given by the state will be recycled into purses which they actively have horse competing for. If this was Wall Street the SEC would have a field day.

[5k-claim]

You are incidental (if you are indeed a 5g claiming operation) to the big picture....take a look at the board members of NYRA. These are the guys who have determined that the 12 million dollars given by the state will be recycled into purses which they actively have horse competing for. If this was Wall Street the SEC would have a field day.And the same is true at Monmouth?

OK... well, like I said, I do not really know much about NYRA or Monmouth.

And you are entirely correct about me being incidental to that level of racing. It is a whole other world from where I am.

.

[Jasonm921]

Listen...I love this sport and love the NY tracks but this game has to get itself together real fast. Casino gaming is expanding extremely fast and the antiquated forms of gambling will be expendable. Look at what 1000 slot machines bring in a day at Aqueduct compared to the track...without the headache of 14 or is 15 horses breaking down outside. just saying...and this is coming from a life long fan who wants his daughter to enjoy this sport in the future as well.

[Tom]

The number of graded stakes should be halved.

Amen, FAR less graded stakes, and make the purses really good - instead of wasting it on bottom level claimers.

Suggestion for a new overnight stakes for Aqueduct....

"The Next Stop Philly" stakes