How Money Corrupts Congress

[chickenhead]

Lawrence Lessig -- he's more liberal than some of you will cotton to, get over it, I think there is something here for everyone. Focus on the big ideas, not on yer stinkin' nitpicks:

1.) Congress is fundamentally corrupt.

2.) Everyone knows it.

3.) It's not supposed to be that way.

Take a breath. The above 3 points are pretty epic in proportions, why do we talk about so many other pointless things?

4.) I get all warm and fuzzy when people start talking about focusing on the few things we can really, if we really wanted to -- sit down and all AGREE on. All us big dumb unwashed mass of humans in this country, we do actually ALL just about agree, on a very few things. We should at some point do that.

5.) Repeat 1 thru 4

---------------------------------------------------------

1.) Off topic -- I really enjoyed the little metaphorical excerpt he starts with, about the girl with the drunk for a dad. What a wonderful piece of writing.

Oh yeah, the video!

Ik1AK56FtVc

[NJ Stinks]

A lot to digest at this late hour, Chickenhead. But great ideas for sure.

That part near the end about Obama failing to do what he said he wanted to do about campaign finance reform, cleaning up the money influence in Washington, etc., definitely hit home. Obama has not come close to pushing for anything to clean up Washington like he said he would before the election.

Why not? Probably millions of good reason$. :rolleyes:

The comments above are not exactly offering any kind of a solution to the problem. Still, good stuff. :ThmbUp:

[plainolebill]

Righto - Hasn't done a thing; got the same people as GW, with different faces, running his economic team. Didn't I read that one of the under-secretaries of treasury just quit and went to work for: Tah dah......... Goldman Sachs? Probably where Timmy will go too when he's done his worst.

Should be a guillotine set up in the capital, work its way from capital hill to K-street - load it on the train and head up to Wall Street for Blankfein and Dimon.

I'll dust my mobcap off.

I'll be 70 years old this year and I have never seen such a zoo, couldn't even have imagined it.

Quote from Jesse's Americaine website:

This Republican primary is one of the most disgusting spectacles of pandering and deceitful cynicism that I can remember. And the Democrats and their faux reformers are little better (Maybe worse**). MF Global and the lack of investigations and prosecutions in times of general financial fraud prove that.

Corruption is the coin of the realm. And the nation suffers.

**My comment

[lamboguy]

Righto - Hasn't done a thing; got the same people as GW, with different faces, running his economic team. Didn't I read that one of the under-secretaries of treasury just quit and went to work for: Tah dah......... Goldman Sachs? Probably where Timmy will go too when he's done his worst.

Should be a guillotine set up in the capital, work its way from capital hill to K-street - load it on the train and head up to Wall Street for Blankfein and Dimon.

I'll dust my mobcap off.

I'll be 70 years old this year and I have never seen such a zoo, couldn't even have imagined it.

Quote from Jesse's Americaine website:

This Republican primary is one of the most disgusting spectacles of pandering and deceitful cynicism that I can remember. And the Democrats and their faux reformers are little better (Maybe worse**). MF Global and the lack of investigations and prosecutions in times of general financial fraud prove that.

Corruption is the coin of the realm. And the nation suffers.

**My commentin my opinion, and my real gut feeling is that the collapse of MF was a way to steal people's gold. as many remember MF took over Lynn Waldock a few years back, and became the largest house for the precious metals markets. i knew a few people that got screwed by them and they never even owed any margin.

my advice to anyone that thinks they are going to protect themselves with gold is to own only the physical stuff. forget about futures contracts and electronic traded paper gold funds.

another thing that you can do that carries no risk at all is to buy and hoard nickles. the mint is going to stop using the metal content in those coins within 2 years.. in case i am wrong on this, you don't lose anything, but you might get a sore back carrying those things around.

[acorn54]

H.L. Mencken said "all governments are evil, and it is a waste of time trying to change them".

[ArlJim78]

right, we need to follow google's big ideas and take seriously the occupiers demands. give me a break. the common ground doesn't exist, there are not things we all agree on. people don't mind a corrupt congress as long as there is something in it for them. where the campaign money comes from is not the big issue, people electing corrupt politicians because they expect something in return is.

Google takes a lead role in corrupting the system, and is immensly active politically. they are not the knight in shining armor here.

corrupt people in congress and otherwise are celebrated, and reelected time and again. people that want a big powerful government in Washington which exerts a larger and larger influence over every facet of our commerce and life, are just going to have to live with the fact that when you keep the government pig trough filled with yummy stuff that nobody has to pay for(tax breaks, grants, fed funding,etc) there will always be a stampede of lawyers, lobbyists, and the well connected scrambling to get first dibs and a front row seat at the table. the general public is in on this is what I'm saying.

this guy and the people who agree with him are basically complaining that there are too many stumbling blocks in the way which prevent them from making all the correct decisions for us. if only we could get rid of the campaign money then government could do the right thing and help us little people? I don't think so.
Any country is only as good as its people, and unfortunately congress is a reflection of who we are as a country now. All I'm saying is that its too easy to blame money in politics or corporations, that is the occupier mentality.

[chickenhead]

I think the massive amount of money in politics, from an extremely narrow source (corporate pacs, unions, and the uber-rich) is a problem. I think representative democracy is fundamentally broken here, and isn't recoverable without removing it. Provably.

From that statement, you conclude I am a pig at the trough?
From that statement, you conclude I have an "occupier mentality"?

For thinking Congress should work as conceived?

And you are part of the solution?

I know, I know, it wasn't directed at me...just a generalization about people apparently like me. Except they aren't. Or maybe they are?

People make things so much more complicated than they really are.

[Tom]

Got to get 99% of the money out of politics.
No unions, no corporations, no PACs, only individual contributions of $1,000 max - one time per race. SS required, all contributions listed and every penny spend accounted for.

[ArlJim78]

I think the massive amount of money in politics, from an extremely narrow source (corporate pacs, unions, and the uber-rich) is a problem. I think representative democracy is fundamentally broken here, and isn't recoverable without removing it. Provably.

From that statement, you conclude I am a pig at the trough?
From that statement, you conclude I have an "occupier mentality"?

For thinking Congress should work as conceived?

And you are part of the solution?

I know, I know, it wasn't directed at me...just a generalization about people apparently like me. Except they aren't. Or maybe they are?

People make things so much more complicated than they really are.
What did he propose that is simple? I heard something about a consitutional convention of some sorts, which does not seem practical or simple. What simple way is there to remove money from politics without limiting freedom? and if the money is gone but we have the same group of people in office how does that solve anything? They're corrupt and can't be trusted with money so take it away and then suddenly they're capable of making all the right decisions?

One simple solution would be for people to throw out of office via the ballot box politicians who are corrupt or write bad laws or provide favors. How about electing a better class of people to office? Or for there to be public shame, prosecution, an aggressive media watchdog.
Isn't that the way the system is supposed to work? The broke part of our system is the people. There is no fix for that. People don't seem to mind that the media is broken and biased or what goes on in congress or in the white house. They only want to hear about how things are going to be fixed for them.

I didn't hear the last 25 minutes of that video, does he only talk about congress? did he not find any corruption in the federal branch? how about the money that is thrown around by the federal branch to the politically connected? shouldn't we also shut that down?

[chickenhead]

What did he propose that is simple? I heard something about a consitutional convention of some sorts, which does not seem practical or simple. What simple way is there to remove money from politics without limiting freedom? and if the money is gone but we have the same group of people in office how does that solve anything? They're corrupt and can't be trusted with money so take it away and then suddenly they're capable of making all the right decisions?

What makes you think we have the same group of people without the money? That is the entire point -- the money the current crop of people are raising, that perpetuates their office, isn't from people. Most people do not like them. You say they should elect better people -- they are never offered good people. Ever.

They are offered deeply conflicted special interest robotrons, by two parties of the special interests to choose from. Voter turnout is miserable amongst the middle class. There is no-one to vote for. You can't vote none-of-the-above. You can't throw someone out of office without replacing them, and their replacement is just as bad.

Yes, the system itself is broken. "Vote good" isn't enough. Not from where I sit. Someone telling me to "vote good" makes me want to puke. I'll give you the next election card -- you tell me how to "vote good" in it. And I'll look at your picks and I'll laugh in your face.


I didn't hear the last 25 minutes of that video, does he only talk about congress? did he not find any corruption in the federal branch? how about the money that is thrown around by the federal branch to the politically connected? shouldn't we also shut that down?

Congress is part of the Federal Gov't, I'm not sure what you mean by the Federal "branch". Congress controls the money via appropriations. You mean the executive? Yes, he did talk about the executive at the end.

Don't mistake focus on a single issue for tacit approval of everything else under the sun. I don't care if I agree with him about literally anything else, I agree with him on this point. We can find agreement. Someone talking a single issue shouldn't be required to address every other issue, or any other issue, nor should you require them to theoretically agree with you on anything else.

Sometimes addressing only a single issue is actually the only way to get an issue addressed.

[boxcar]

What makes you think we have the same group of people without the money? That is the entire point -- the money the current crop of people are raising, that perpetuates their office, isn't from people. Most people do not like them. You say they should elect better people -- they are never offered good people. Ever.

They are offered deeply conflicted special interest robotrons, by two parties of the special interests to choose from. Voter turnout is miserable amongst the middle class. There is no-one to vote for. You can't vote none-of-the-above. You can't throw someone out of office without replacing them, and their replacement is just as bad.

Yes, the system itself is broken. "Vote good" isn't enough. Not from where I sit. Someone telling me to "vote good" makes me want to puke. I'll give you the next election card -- you tell me how to "vote good" in it. And I'll look at your picks and I'll laugh in your face.




Congress is part of the Federal Gov't, I'm not sure what you mean by the Federal "branch". Congress controls the money via appropriations. You mean the executive? Yes, he did talk about the executive at the end.

Don't mistake focus on a single issue for tacit approval of everything else under the sun. I don't care if I agree with him about literally anything else, I agree with him on this point. We can find agreement. Someone talking a single issue shouldn't be required to address every other issue, or any other issue, nor should you require them to theoretically agree with you on anything else.

Sometimes addressing only a single issue is actually the only way to get an issue addressed.

Since you recognize all this, what is the solution? Should that big "middle class" be informed of what is going on? Maybe the entire nation needs to have a sit-in strike. Maybe the entire populace needs to occupy the whole country. Maybe even have a good ol' fashioned revolution. But whatever the solution is, the people in this country are ultimately responsible for who is in office and for tolerating all this corruption. If the politicians didn't have people voting them into office, they wouldn't be there.

Boxcar

[johnhannibalsmith]

Since you recognize all this, what is the solution? Should that big "middle class" be informed of what is going on? Maybe the entire nation needs to have a sit-in strike. Maybe the entire populace needs to occupy the whole country. Maybe even have a good ol' fashioned revolution. But whatever the solution is, the people in this country are ultimately responsible for who is in office and for tolerating all this corruption. If the politicians didn't have people voting them into office, they wouldn't be there.

Boxcar

Just pipe down and vote for whoever the GOP tells you to because after all, it isn't Obama. ;)

[newtothegame]

Just pipe down and vote for whoever the GOP tells you to because after all, it isn't Obama. ;)
touche'
But, on the other hand John, when ONLY given two choices (Which "Inevitably") of Romney and Obama, would you suggest Obama? lol:lol:

[chickenhead]

Imagine a small farm, a nice little idyllic place in the country. Rolling green hills and little bluebirds fluttering about. Sunshine and a cool breeze.

Every night, for a little entertainment, the farmer lets his children vote...do we want to feed Bessie alfalfa or grain?

It's important, you want Bessie to be nice and strong, you've got to send good food Bessies way, so she'll be strong, so she can help the farm. It's a symbiotic relationship, old Bessie and the farm and the farmers.

Now, some kids favor the alfalfa, and some kids favor the grain, and they both sometimes have their points. And they have lively debates over which it will be each night.

Except the door got left open, and Bessie ran off. She's in the next county, being systematically sodomized by a clan of hillbillies.

Bessie is locked in someones basement in a gimp outfit.

Should we continue yakking about the grain and alfalfa as our major preoccupation, or go find a way to get Bessie and save her from her horrific fate?


Boxie -- All I know is we have two parties entrenched, that play the game and have rigged all the little bits of it, the ballot rules, the debate rules, the election districts -- all of it -- in their favor, to stifle competition from each other, and from anyone else, from anyone other than them. They have constructed the walls to make them as high as possible, and as expensive to climb as possible -- and then they amass war chests by selling their asses to the highest bidder, and that high bidder is never you, me, or Arljim, even if we wanted it, we couldn't afford it. And they use those war chests to protect those walls. From us.

And inside the fortress, down in the basement somewhere, in a black full length leather body suit, caked and stained with matter unholy, is Bessie.

[NJ Stinks]

And inside the fortress, down in the basement somewhere, in a black full length leather body suit, caked and stained with matter unholy, is Bessie.

Do you mean strike at the root by any chance?

Of course you do. :ThmbUp:

[johnhannibalsmith]

Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NJ Stinks]

Mooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK. I'll bite. Please explain. :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

OK. I'll bite. Please explain. :confused:

Check out the fresh teeth.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/50415_362297644815_7921435_n.jpg

[NJ Stinks]

Damn. You look great, John!

[chickenhead]

she should have one of them Red gimp balls gripped in her teeth, then I'll have my mascot.

Sorry NJ, it's Friday and I've lost my seriousness...

Bessie is our gov't, our most important heritage as Americans, the thing our farm was once most proud of. We served her and she served us. Old Bessie, big eyes, happy to see us...now we've got an old worn out Slim Jim. Made of pork eyelids and salt water and saw dust. Not even in the wrapper, just laying on the floor.

No one is proud of a slim jim, just layin on the floor.