Ness/Midwest claimer sets track record at TAM today

[Track Phantom]

Might have made my last bet on a race Jamie Ness is involved in. I'm from MN and have followed this guy since 2005 (after he left the information booth at CBY to become a trainer). He is doing things that defy all logical statistics.

Today, Lady of Greatness (a mare he claimed for 14k in October) won a 20k claiming race by 11 lengths in sub 1:03 for 5 1/2 and set the track record.

The guy is hovering around 50% win percentage with 125 starters are TAM.

A few honest questions:

1. Is there a sole alive that believes he is winning legitimately?

2. If the answer is NO, why is he allowed to train?

3. I know the tracks have a built in incentive to let guys like Ness on the grounds (adds more horses to races) but c'mon, you can't seriously believe his runners make their product better or more bettable.

4. Will there EVER be a serious charge brought against Ness (or guys like him)? If he is using PED's, he is committing a felony (tampering with a parimutuel event) and would do prison time if the Fed's took aim.


Overall---it's just disgusting to me and makes the game tough to get excited about.

[Striker]

Beat the track record by 4 lengths not just a whisker although in the 16k nw3L they just missed the track record at 6.5f by a length. You don't see horses win by 11 in a 5.5f race everyday also. The beat goes on at Tampa.

[mistergee]

I am wondering if he was doing something so obviously wrong wouldnt or shouldnt the other trainers-owners complain to the point it would be stopped because after all he would be taking food off their table if it were true?

[lamboguy]

PETER BERUBE must be very proud of a $16,000 claimer breaking his track record for 5 1/2 furlongs. he also has to love the MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION scaring trainers away from that place and the handle dropping like a rock this year.

he has his wish

[Track Phantom]

PETER BERUBE must be very proud of a $16,000 claimer breaking his track record for 5 1/2 furlongs. he also has to love the MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION scaring trainers away from that place and the handle dropping like a rock this year.

he has his wish

It's beyond ridiculous

[lamboguy]

It's beyond ridiculous


the MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION is winning at a 49% win rate at TAMPA. that means that 51% of the time that they have horses in the race other owners don't win races. there are lots of things that happen to horses during races, bad draw's, jockey falloffs, pinned on rails, wind blowing wrong direction. they still overcome the randomness that makes racing great.

these are not the only guys that win at crazy numbers all over our continent these days. the only thing that remains constant here is that racing handles have taken steep drops, while the rest of the world has big increases.

[johnhannibalsmith]

the MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION is winning at a 49% win rate at TAMPA. that means that 51% of the time that they have horses in the race other owners don't win races. ...

Hmmm... not to nitpick, but after a little math Goooogling, I've come to the conclusion that if they are winning 49% of the time then that means that 49% of the time that they have horses in the race other owners don't win races.

[proximity]

1. Is there a sole alive that believes he is winning legitimately?


red cloak from the pen racing illuminati is the only one.

story used to be that jamie personally took copious notes on all the horses every morning. now that he's at multiple tracks, midwest is just playing the tax game better than other stables. who knows what it will be next. :rolleyes:

[Striker]

The ability to take great notes interesting? If the guy never had a violation then people at least would have less questions arise when his horses would perform like this, I remember when he shipped 2 horses in for the claiming crown in 2010 at canterbury and both tested positive for some illegal substance and they both placed in their races. Didn't he also send and race the wrong horse one time and he blamed it on one of his staff?

[Racey]

Andy Beyer writes in his Drf article about this fall at Tampa Bay and Ness's win % it tells you all you need to know. That track is hurting ...damn shame.

[sammy the sage]

ITTP..google it

[proximity]

the MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION is winning at a 49% win rate at TAMPA. that means that 51% of the time that they have horses in the race other owners don't win races. .

multinomial logit??:)

[The Bit]

He is the TBred version of Lou Pena. Its a joke and is killing handle, plus makes a lot of races unbettable period.

But I have to admit to betting Lady of Greatness yesterday. Using DRF Formulater, I found that he was 50% + with the combo of factors that LoG had. Turf to dirt, sprinting, 2nd off layoff etc.

But I was on the other end too, had the 9-1 and 8-1 winners of the 7th and 8th singled to First off the Claim #3 for Ness in the finale only to have the horse miss the board. I was already counting my money.

[Shankapotamus]

Crazy game we love, isn't it?
New York gets sick of the Dutrow shenanigans, and look how many races he's winning waiting for his "ban" to kick in.

Sometimes I think (more like hope) that somebody who knows whats going on will blow one of these 40% + guys in. But then I think about Jose Canseco, and all the accusations he made when his book came out several years ago. He was vilified to no end because he ruined the image of the game to all the baseball purists. Of course, everything he said has proven to have been true; but I guess being the one who "rats" can put you in a lonely place.

[Track Phantom]

Crazy game we love, isn't it?
New York gets sick of the Dutrow shenanigans, and look how many races he's winning waiting for his "ban" to kick in.

Sometimes I think (more like hope) that somebody who knows whats going on will blow one of these 40% + guys in. But then I think about Jose Canseco, and all the accusations he made when his book came out several years ago. He was vilified to no end because he ruined the image of the game to all the baseball purists. Of course, everything he said has proven to have been true; but I guess being the one who "rats" can put you in a lonely place.

Agreed with everything you said. It would really be awesome if they caight one of these guys and made a serious example of him.

On a side note, I always had a suspicion that Larry Jones retired because he felt the gov't was getting involved in the cleaning up of the sport (back around the 8 Belle's time period). Funny he's returned right after the gov't lost interest in doing anything. I'm sure I'm wrong on that hunch but unfortunately, everything I see and hear regarding racing has my skeptical.

[Valuist]

Looking at Saturday's GP card, I see Gulfstream is one track Ness has yet to conquer. Not many starters there but a goose egg in the win column for Ness.

[lamboguy]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16564-chemical-drink-breathes-life-into-damaged-hearts.html

[Citation1947]

I am wondering if he was doing something so obviously wrong wouldnt or shouldnt the other trainers-owners complain to the point it would be stopped because after all he would be taking food off their table if it were true?

Some of those other guys are doing something wrong too. He is just doing something wrong better than they are these days.

For example, anyone able to pull up Gerald Bennett's past rulings/drug offenses?

[HoofedInTheChest]

Looking at Saturday's GP card, I see Gulfstream is one track Ness has yet to conquer. Not many starters there but a goose egg in the win column for Ness.
He got a win today in the 6th at Gulfstream with She's Packin Heat, i just sat shaking my head.

[Citation1947]

Agreed with everything you said. It would really be awesome if they caight one of these guys and made a serious example of him.

On a side note, I always had a suspicion that Larry Jones retired because he felt the gov't was getting involved in the cleaning up of the sport (back around the 8 Belle's time period). Funny he's returned right after the gov't lost interest in doing anything. I'm sure I'm wrong on that hunch but unfortunately, everything I see and hear regarding racing has my skeptical.

My take on that is Jones took alot of heat for the death of Eight Belles and it was eating at him. I feel he just needed to get away for abit.

[Robert Goren]

My take on that is Jones took alot of heat for the death of Eight Belles and it was eating at him. I feel he just needed to get away for abit. Jones never really left the game. He just ran horses under his wife's name.

[BIG49010]

Looks like anybody can buy this, I guess the next question is how do you get it into the horse without killing them?

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/a9978?lang=en&region=US

[pandy]

According to this ad, you can purchase ITPP for your horse from this website.

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-532996

[lamboguy]

According to this ad, you can purchase ITPP for your horse from this website.

http://www.equinenow.com/horse-ad-532996there isn't any amount of money in the world that you could give me that would get me to stick any of that stuff in a race horse, i would rather die busted.

[rastajenk]

Andy Beyer writes in his Drf article about this fall at Tampa Bay and Ness's win % it tells you all you need to know. That track is hurting ...damn shame.I was going to comment about this in the other Beyer/Tampa thread, got distracted, and didn't. But consider this:

Back when Pat Day was riding all those $3.20 winners day after day at Churchill and Keeneland, did that hurt the handle as much as Beyer claims Ness is doing?
After all, he rode nearly every race; jocks have many more starts than trainers. I don't recall those tracks floundering because PayDay was making those races "unplayable."

Two things were different then. A lot of Day's career was before the blooming of full card simulcasting, so people that wanted to go to the track to bet still went, knowing that he was going to be involved with several short-priced runners. They still went. And most of his career was before the Age of the Internet, where echo chambers like this can amp up and reinforce any and all kinds of pernicious notions without any consequence or respect of the facts on the ground.

Maybe Ness is cheating; I don't have any way of knowing. Results charts are not proof one way or the other. But skipping your favorite horizontal wagers because he may have a mortal lock in one of the legs sounds to me more like whining than concerned criticism.

[castaway01]

I was going to comment about this in the other Beyer/Tampa thread, got distracted, and didn't. But consider this:

Back when Pat Day was riding all those $3.20 winners day after day at Churchill and Keeneland, did that hurt the handle as much as Beyer claims Ness is doing?
After all, he rode nearly every race; jocks have many more starts than trainers. I don't recall those tracks floundering because PayDay was making those races "unplayable."

Two things were different then. A lot of Day's career was before the blooming of full card simulcasting, so people that wanted to go to the track to bet still went, knowing that he was going to be involved with several short-priced runners. They still went. And most of his career was before the Age of the Internet, where echo chambers like this can amp up and reinforce any and all kinds of pernicious notions without any consequence or respect of the facts on the ground.

Maybe Ness is cheating; I don't have any way of knowing. Results charts are not proof one way or the other. But skipping your favorite horizontal wagers because he may have a mortal lock in one of the legs sounds to me more like whining than concerned criticism.

Interesting point, though Day wasn't winning 50 percent of the time, and he wasn't suspected of cheating to win. He just had the best mounts and the most talent of any rider, and while people might get sick of $3.20 winners, he was still losing 75 percent of the time. If you're saying that coincidently Ness just happens to have the best horse in half the races he runs at Tampa, then fine, but that hasn't been the case for too many trainers in an extended race meet in the history of the sport.

Well, until the past few years... :rolleyes:

[pandy]

It's not hard to check this, just look at the handle in races where Ness has a horse as compared to in races where he doesn't.

My gut feeling is that some of these super trainers do in fact have a negative effect on the handle but I have not done any research on it.

[rastajenk]

A question for the contractionists out there, those who want far fewer tracks and supposedly better betting opportunities...who is going to survive the contraction that will make the game better? Probably all of the supertrainers you love to hate.

[CincyHorseplayer]

A question for the contractionists out there, those who want far fewer tracks and supposedly better betting opportunities...who is going to survive the contraction that will make the game better? Probably all of the supertrainers you love to hate.

You seem to not want to deal with the actual reality that this thread is about and want to add a new one when this one doesn't suit you.

You bring up Pat Day and him ruining cards.For one getting on different mounts for different trainers every race when you are on your game will get you winners.2,Day never had 50% winners.To think a trainer could do that is pure BS.Ness is doing anything he pleases.Horses improve 10-15 speed points,go up in class multiple times,even change running styles.

Now this latest addition.

You are all about the flame and let me be honest,full of $hit.

Sincerely yours,

Rod Denton

[rastajenk]

All I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for.

[Jeff P]

If a racing secretary really wanted to take this on (and was willing to think outside the box) I'm wondering if he could find a way to do so.

How loudly would the majority of (honest) horsemen on the grounds object if the following two races happened to show up in the condition book?

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $15,000.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs. THIS RACE IS NOT OPEN to horses trained by any trainer whose North American win percentage since January 1, 2012 as listed by the Jockey Club at time of entry is greater than or equal to 25%.

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $2,500.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs.


-jp

.

[castaway01]

If a racing secretary really wanted to take this on (and was willing to think outside the box) I'm wondering if he could find a way to do so.

How loudly would the majority of (honest) horsemen on the grounds object if the following two races happened to show up in the condition book?

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $15,000.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs. THIS RACE IS NOT OPEN to horses trained by any trainer whose North American win percentage since January 1, 2012 as listed by the Jockey Club at time of entry is greater than or equal to 25%.

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $2,500.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs.


-jp

.

I like your creativity and it's much better than saying "better than a speed figure of XXX" but I have a feeling it wouldn't fly because more horsemen are afraid Ness would either 1) claim every decent horse in their barn 2) might be where they will be someday and they wouldn't want anyone to stop them.

[castaway01]

All I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for.

Personally, I always like trying to figure out profitable supertrainer angles, but if you say "it's just like Pat Day when he got bet down every race", well, it's not.

[Not4Love]

I just hope that every single damn one of us will avoid any race with
JAMIE NESS in it. It's the only way to stop this. Of course I could go on and name all the other cheaters, but we know who they are. Please! I'm tired of it!

[Endearus]

Jeff P:

Please forward the former suggestion to NYRA's racing secretary. With a highly sucessful racino and increased purses they are unable to get full fields. CT and DED do much better.

[proximity]

How loudly would the majority of (honest) horsemen on the grounds object if the following two races happened to show up in the condition book?


i don't think the five or six honest horsemen would complain too much, but you'd probably see a lot of "new" trainers winning these races. carol hubbird "claims" from mike chambers..... guadalupe guerrero "claims" from juan carlos guerrero... (insert random first name) beattie "claims" from thirtypercent beattie.... so previous trainer win percentage would have to be part of the condition also.

it is sad that the game has come to a point where i don't think your idea is a bad one.

[BIG49010]

How about a condition that contained the words " Not open to trainers who have had any drug related overage in the last 15 years"

[pandy]

It's actually not a bad idea, but the main drug offenders are the ones that have positives for illegal substances, which is much worse than a positive for a high lasix reading, for instance. A track could actually add hidden conditions, "trainers with positives for illegal substances not allowed."

There's no question that the racing industry is way too lenient on these trainers, and owners.

[Track Phantom]

Could this guy be any more crooked? Wins basically every race and all with horses he claimed. It's logically impossible.

[BIG49010]

It is not only Ness, it is all the Midwest trainers. Take a look at Roger Brueggemann, once he received the special sauce, a long standing trainer with at best 15% wins in a good year becomes a super trainer. Something is wrong, and once they find out what they are doing, I hope they rule off anyone connected to Midwest, and redistribute all the purse money. That will slow down the next bunch of cheats also.

[Striker]

It is not only Ness, it is all the Midwest trainers. Take a look at Roger Brueggemann, once he received the special sauce, a long standing trainer with at best 15% wins in a good year becomes a super trainer. Something is wrong, and once they find out what they are doing, I hope they rule off anyone connected to Midwest, and redistribute all the purse money. That will slow down the next bunch of cheats also.
I agree with you to a certain extent. But Roger B doesn't move up too many of the Midwest horses that are transferred to him from Ness/Cox. On the other hand Ness frequently is able to get a horse to perform at higher levels then when Roger B had them. He is able to "fix" them.

[tbwinner]

I agree with you to a certain extent. But Roger B doesn't move up too many of the Midwest horses that are transferred to him from Ness/Cox. On the other hand Ness frequently is able to get a horse to perform at higher levels then when Roger B had them. He is able to "fix" them.

I've noticed this too. That one 9yo Stumbling Block is one that sticks out and I think Brave Yank is one recently too.

[thezeeman333]

Tampa Bay March 24th 1st Race
Brave Yank :5: $5000 claimer runs 6.5 Furlongs in 1.15.4 Wins by 7 1/2 lengths:confused: :eek:

[cj]

Tampa Bay March 24th 1st Race
Brave Yank :5: $5000 claimer runs 6.5 Furlongs in 1.15.4 Wins by 7 1/2 lengths:confused: :eek:

It looks like the second time someone performed magic with this horse.

[lamboguy]

today they raided the NESS barns in TAMPA.

what did they find?

NADA

i heard BERUBE is not to happy down there these days with all the trainers promising not to come down there next year because they don't think they can win.

i highly recommend that BERUBE look into my suggestion with limits of stalls for horses to 26 and limit ownership to 5 horses at a time there. if they find someone circumventing those rules, you have to throw them out of the place for life.

i know this is anti-capitalistic, but we are in dire times in the racing game and we need drastic measures to stay alive.

who the hell is going to send horses to TAMPA with those rotten purses that they can never win no matter how good their horse is?

[Striker]

Anyone think his numbers might go down a little bit after this?

[duncan04]

Anyone think his numbers might go down a little bit after this?

I would hope so. Ness is one of the reasons I haven't bet Tampa this year.

[BIG49010]

[QUOTE=

i highly recommend that BERUBE look into my suggestion with limits of stalls for horses to 26 and limit ownership to 5 horses at a time there. if they find someone circumventing those rules, you have to throw them out of the place for life.

i know this is anti-capitalistic, but we are in dire times in the racing game and we need drastic measures to stay alive.

who the hell is going to send horses to TAMPA with those rotten purses that they can never win no matter how good their horse is?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you about changes should be made, but be careful what you wish for, with the money Midwest has, they could build a training facility in between Tampa and Hallendale and run them in off the farm and dominate and screw up both meetings.

[lamboguy]

I agree with you about changes should be made, but be careful what you wish for, with the money Midwest has, they could build a training facility in between Tampa and Hallendale and run them in off the farm and dominate and screw up both meetings.i said limit the amount of horse that an owner can run to something like 5 per week.

NESS is just the gopher here, not the problem

if they don't do anything, their won't be any horses there next year

[nijinski]

today they raided the NESS barns in TAMPA.

what did they find?

NADA

i heard BERUBE is not to happy down there these days with all the trainers promising not to come down there next year because they don't think they can win.

i highly recommend that BERUBE look into my suggestion with limits of stalls for horses to 26 and limit ownership to 5 horses at a time there. if they find someone circumventing those rules, you have to throw them out of the place for life.

i know this is anti-capitalistic, but we are in dire times in the racing game and we need drastic measures to stay alive.

who the hell is going to send horses to TAMPA with those rotten purses that they can never win no matter how good their horse is?

Ness commented after the report of the raid and felt it was done only due to other horsemens complaints. He maintains he's innocent and say's he is proud of his accomplishments . Also praising the work of his staff of 20 .
Could it be he has that much more talent and good placement of his horses ?

They took samples of some of his sweet feeds and some routine meds for ulcers and such.

[cj]

Ness commented after the report of the raid and felt it was done only due to other horsemens complaints. He maintains he's innocent and say's he is proud of his accomplishments . Also praising the work of his staff of 20 .
Could it be he has that much more talent and good placement of his horses ?

They took samples of some of his sweet feeds and some routine meds for ulcers and such.

Talent, anything is possible, but it isn't due to placement of the horses. That doesn't make any sense. Many of them win on the rise at the exact same distance and surface.

[Valuist]

It is not only Ness, it is all the Midwest trainers. Take a look at Roger Brueggemann, once he received the special sauce, a long standing trainer with at best 15% wins in a good year becomes a super trainer. Something is wrong, and once they find out what they are doing, I hope they rule off anyone connected to Midwest, and redistribute all the purse money. That will slow down the next bunch of cheats also.

Brueggemann was pretty good before he started training for Midwest T-Breds. He wasn't known nationally but a likely "move up" guy who has pretty solid at the Chicago tracks for a number of years. Kind of like Joel Berndt.

[BIG49010]

Brueggemann was pretty good before he started training for Midwest T-Breds. He wasn't known nationally but a likely "move up" guy who has pretty solid at the Chicago tracks for a number of years. Kind of like Joel Berndt.

Career Statistics:



Starts: 5,203
Firsts: 769
14.77%



2012



Starts: 80


Firsts: 24
30%

[BIG49010]

Frequency of drug violations for horses of the top-earning trainers in the United States (2010)
(http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/sports/04racing.html)

http://www.horsefund.org/the-chemical-horse-part-9.php

[Track Phantom]

Ness commented after the report of the raid and felt it was done only due to other horsemens complaints. He maintains he's innocent and say's he is proud of his accomplishments . Also praising the work of his staff of 20 .
Could it be he has that much more talent and good placement of his horses ?

They took samples of some of his sweet feeds and some routine meds for ulcers and such.

Not a chance. If there is a method of 45% success in this game by hard work and placement, it would have been duplicated xpoential amount of times. There is ONE and only ONE thing that allows a trainer to win at this percentage (especially training into a drug aided environment) and that is performance enhancing medication (i.e. drugs). Pure and simple. Not open for debate.

Clearly what he is using is undetectable at the moment but eventually it will catch up with him.

[lamboguy]

Not a chance. If there is a method of 45% success in this game by hard work and placement, it would have been duplicated xpoential amount of times. There is ONE and only ONE thing that allows a trainer to win at this percentage (especially training into a drug aided environment) and that is performance enhancing medication (i.e. drugs). Pure and simple. Not open for debate.

Clearly what he is using is undetectable at the moment but eventually it will catch up with him.
it really doesn't have to be anything illegal, and it doesn't have to be a substance either, but it is something that him and about 25 other's have and the rest don't.

there are to many variables in horse racing where an outfit can go to bat and win at a 49% win rate. horses get trapped on the rail, horses bang into them, horses run in between other horses, riders fall off, horses have tummy aches. so basically what has happened is that they basically win with everything they put out on a race track minus the uncontrolled variables.

[BIG49010]

it really doesn't have to be anything illegal, and it doesn't have to be a substance either, but it is something that him and about 25 other's have and the rest don't.

there are to many variables in horse racing where an outfit can go to bat and win at a 49% win rate. horses get trapped on the rail, horses bang into them, horses run in between other horses, riders fall off, horses have tummy aches. so basically what has happened is that they basically win with everything they put out on a race track minus the uncontrolled variables.

What your saying rings true, it is just like the comparison between a mom and pop store and Walmart. If a midwest does 6 or 7 million in purses I am sure they have economies of scale working their favor, and if they have a couple bad claims it doesn't hurt too much. They could be operating on a 3-4% profit margin or loss that is written off against his other businesses.

The majority of people can't do that, Frank Calabrese is another, it's a game to them. Big problem is they are ruining the sport.

[nijinski]

Not a chance. If there is a method of 45% success in this game by hard work and placement, it would have been duplicated xpoential amount of times. There is ONE and only ONE thing that allows a trainer to win at this percentage (especially training into a drug aided environment) and that is performance enhancing medication (i.e. drugs). Pure and simple. Not open for debate.

Clearly what he is using is undetectable at the moment but eventually it will catch up with him.
You know I have to take a better look at his claims. I know he works for Midwest and from what I've heard they run a good operation. They purchused Hunter Farms in Florida a few years ago and send their layoffs and sore horses there.
I know he's had overages and so have many others , I've heard he takes good care of his horses and works hard . An OTTB person tells me he's made a mercy claim and was helpful in rehoming for him. Midwest says they stand by that ideal and look for aftercare for their runners. So maybe I want to to believe they are all clean because I like those values ... or maybe they are . Nobody likes to get beat by him constantly , so he's stamped in the the middle of his forehead either way .
He's been raided so lets see what they find.

[lamboguy]

What your saying rings true, it is just like the comparison between a mom and pop store and Walmart. If a midwest does 6 or 7 million in purses I am sure they have economies of scale working their favor, and if they have a couple bad claims it doesn't hurt too much. They could be operating on a 3-4% profit margin or loss that is written off against his other businesses.

The majority of people can't do that, Frank Calabrese is another, it's a game to them. Big problem is they are ruining the sport.FRANK loses money at the game every year owning the horses, MIDWEST gets miraculous results and makes big money.

[Track Phantom]

You know I have to take a better look at his claims. I know he works for Midwest and from what I've heard they run a good operation. They purchused Hunter Farms in Florida a few years ago and send their layoffs and sore horses there.
I know he's had overages and so have many others , I've heard he takes good care of his horses and works hard . An OTTB person tells me he's made a mercy claim and was helpful in rehoming for him. Midwest says they stand by that ideal and look for aftercare for their runners. So maybe I want to to believe they are all clean because I like those values ... or maybe they are . Nobody likes to get beat by him constantly , so he's stamped in the the middle of his forehead either way .
He's been raided so lets see what they find.

Huh? What does any of that have to do with the fact the guy wins at an impossible 45% rate? He could be the greatest person since Gandhi and sleep in the stall with his horses but it still doesn't explain why EVERY and I mean EVERY runner improves under his care, regardless if he's had the horse for 1 minute or 1 year. He's making a mockery of the sport and every other trainer he's up against. I hope he enjoys the money because virtually no one thinks the guy is anything more than a crook. Not exactly how I would like to live my life.

To think anything else is way too niave. Believe me when I say I wish I COULD believe it. I can't.

[Valuist]

Career Statistics:



Starts: 5,203
Firsts: 769
14.77%



2012



Starts: 80


Firsts: 24
30%


Career stats can be misleading because a lot of trainers are lousy at the start and improve over time. Another thing is that I would have to believe the bulk of his 80 starters in 2012 have been at Hawthorne, where there have been a lot of very small fields (like the usual spring Haw meet).

[cj]

If you break it down by owner, it shows the differences:

Midwest: 127/408 23%
Others: 202/1510 13%

Time doesn't have much to do with it.

[mistergee]

http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=GP&CTY=USA&DATE=20120329&RN=9

Lady Of Greatness, Ness horse probably just ran a 100 Beyer or more coming off a 98 at tampa, and so much for struggling at GP I think this puts him at 55% winners

[cj]

http://www1.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=GP&CTY=USA&DATE=20120329&RN=9

What is the point? He finally won a race at GP two weeks ago, I get that, but what else?

[Rise Over Run]

Lady of Greatness ran a fairly well regarded Pletcher filly (Shared Heart) and the rest of the field into the ground in the 9th at GP today finishing only 3/5ths of the track record. She was in for $62.5k and no one pulled the trigger... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[mistergee]

FiNally?? he has I believe 9 starts and 5 wins

[nijinski]

Correction. The farm Midwest T breds purchased about three years ago is Thunder Ranch . It's run by Hector Magano who conditions horses there for them. Magano was a former Frankel assistant.

[BIG49010]

FRANK loses money at the game every year owning the horses, MIDWEST gets miraculous results and makes big money.

How would you or anyone know, only their accountant knows for sure. I wouldn't believe anything Frank says, and I don't the Midwest guys, but they might make a profit, but "miraculous" I would be surprised.

[Striker]

Only Ness would make a claim like he did at Tampa in Race 9 today. He claimed a maiden(Yankysjazz) running in a nw3L for 8K who actually ran the best race of his career last out for 3rd in a Md8000 route, only time the horse has hit the board. I will be looking for the horse winning his Alw conditions soon.

[pele polo]

Only Ness would make a claim like he did at Tampa in Race 9 today. He claimed a maiden(Yankysjazz) running in a nw3L for 8K who actually ran the best race of his career last out for 3rd in a Md8000 route, only time the horse has hit the board. I will be looking for the horse winning his Alw conditions soon.

Update on this head-scratching claim by Ness/Midwest.

1st start- WIN MC8k @ Tampa
2nd start- WIN Clm8k n/2L @ Tampa
3rd start- WIN Clm7.5k n/3L @ Penn Nat... CLAIMED

First start for new connections (Paulina Sennefia, trainer)
DEAD LAST in a field of nine for 12.5k.

Could be a simple fact that the horse ran out his conditions and took a step-up too tough. However before Ness this horse was as slow as a three legged pig and oddly enough returned to that form when he left the Ness/Midwest lab...
I mean barn.

Almost as if they claim one to see how good they can improve one.

Did anyone see their first off the claim winner at Presque Isle today? Wow.

[Sysonby]

According to the article posted on page 4 of this thread, Ness has a higher percentage of violations per start than any well known trainer in the U.S. So the issue might not be whether they can catch him, the issue may be when are they going to do something about it. They need to be able to make them stop and a suspension doesn't mean you train them through your brother or your friend or your aunt's big toe.

[PaceAdvantage]

According to the article posted on page 4 of this thread, Ness has a higher percentage of violations per start than any well known trainer in the U.S. So the issue might not be whether they can catch him, the issue may be when are they going to do something about it. They need to be able to make them stop and a suspension doesn't mean you train them through your brother or your friend or your aunt's big toe.Nobody ever really talks about how high Bob Baffert was on this list a few years ago. In fact, someone posted the other day that Baffert only had a handful of violations over the past 10 some-odd years...this chart would clearly contradict that notion.

Since this chart originally appeared in the New York Times, I have to give at least some credence to its accuracy (although that's a leap of faith as we all know where the Times is concerned).

[Sysonby]

Nobody ever really talks about how high Bob Baffert was on this list a few years ago. In fact, someone posted the other day that Baffert only had a handful of violations over the past 10 some-odd years...this chart would clearly contradict that notion.

Since this chart originally appeared in the New York Times, I have to give at least some credence to its accuracy (although that's a leap of faith as we all know where the Times is concerned).

Baffert was #4 on the list in 2010 according to article

[Some_One]

Well take a look at Game on Dude in his last start at Hollywood versus the effort he put forth in Dubai (and The Factor too) and you wonder what the difference could be.

[cj]

Watching Ness' horses perform around the east coast today is pretty depressing. I saw new claims running through the screen, and reclaims returning instantly to old Ness form after disappointing for the last trainer. He is a true magician, a horseman of the highest order.

[Saratoga_Mike]

He works harder than everyone else...

[Striker]

reclaims returning instantly to old Ness form after disappointing for the last trainer.
I think he might have some sort of crystal ball on when to reclaim his horses. I especially like the reclaims over a long period of time(years) that have been available at the claim box for numerous races and at the same claim price before he swoops in, just at the right time to get them back into the winners circle.

[cj]

Poor Christina O was going on and on about what a bad favorite the Ness horse was in the 3rd...so young and naive.

[AlbertButtry]

He had one in the last at Penn yesterday that he claimed for $8000 at Tampa. It pulled up that day. Won at Delaware for $6250 first time off the claim. Last night dropped to $4000 and was pulled up after about a furlong and a half into the race.

[tbwinner]

If a racing secretary really wanted to take this on (and was willing to think outside the box) I'm wondering if he could find a way to do so.

How loudly would the majority of (honest) horsemen on the grounds object if the following two races happened to show up in the condition book?

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $15,000.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs. THIS RACE IS NOT OPEN to horses trained by any trainer whose North American win percentage since January 1, 2012 as listed by the Jockey Club at time of entry is greater than or equal to 25%.

6.0 Furlongs Dirt, Claiming price $5000.00 (Purse $2,500.00) FOR FOUR YEAR OLDS AND UPWARD. Weight; 123 lbs. Non-winners of a race since January 1; 2011 Allowed 2 lbs.


-jp

.

Interesting idea. Some tracks have conditions near the end of the meet for trainers without a win on the meet. Colonial has such coming up in the book for the 28th:
"SUBSTITUTE RACE NO 2 STARTER ALLOWANCE
Purse $10,000. (Plus $10,000 from Va Bred Fund) For Three Year Olds and
Upward Which Have Started For A Claiming Price At The Colonial Downs
2012 Thoroughbred Meet In The Interest Of The Current Trainer and
Whose Trainer, At Time Of Entry, Has Not Won A Race At The 2012
Colonial Downs Thoroughbred Meet."

[lamboguy]

what i am starting to wonder about is if THE MIDWEST THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION is related to THE MIDATLANTIC THOROUGHBRED CORPORATION. or are they both a coincidence?