16 Dead

[CryingForTheHorses]

I am saddened that this horrible crime was commited by a member of your/our great US Military.Now because of him,Thousands are now in more danger then before.You have these men and women in a hot spot and some kook ruins it even more then it is now.WTF are we still doing there.They dont like us!!!!!...I am saddened to learn that these were people just like you and me with nothing to do with anything. Why would he kill them? Why would he want such a thing for his fellow brothers and sisters? Now to be over there you have a bigger target on your back.USA needs to leave and let them fight there own battles..Osama is dead isnt he?,Wasnt that the reason for going there?..I am also very surprised there isnt a post about this,Unless I missed? I know there is a lot of military background on this site.Should the men and women that serve hang there head in shame?,Not for them but for the innocent victims that Im sure will never have our trust.I feel for them and I feel for the innocent people and I'm very sad for the people risking their lives to protect them..God Bless them all!

[PaceAdvantage]

Osama dying really changes nothing. We all knew that, didn't you?

When everyone was criticizing Bush because he "failed to get Osama," most level-headed thinkers knew killing Osama, while symbolically important and most certainly a moral victory, really wouldn't change much of what was going on. The nature of terrorism is to spread out and splinter into self-sufficient cells that don't require a central commander.

Now, if what is being reported is actually true, that a lone US soldier went on a rampage and killed 16 "innocent" civilians, including many children, that is just an awful, awful thing, and I would expect this soldier to be swiftly and harshly punished for his unspeakable crimes.

I doubt he'll be released early like the guy convicted of blowing up Pan Am Flight 103. Yes, I know that was Libya and not Afghanistan, but I'm just showing that justice is usually served by the United States in these instances.

Of course, there are extenuating circumstances here, which by no means are meant to exonerate or defend what this alleged madman has done. Tensions in Afghanistan have been running high ever since the the Quran burning incident a short while ago. Four US Soldiers were killed in retaliation for burning the book. No doubt this senseless murder of US forces was at least in part what motivated this crazed US Soldier to go on his killing spree.

War isn't pretty. And when you throw religion into the mix, it only gets uglier.

[cj's dad]

We just need to go. We are putting good men in bad situations. Let the Afghanis decide their future for themselves.

[JustRalph]

A man with a document-able brain injury goes on a shooting spree.

You could have that headline in any paper in any country of the world. It's the bottom line. A person who was without his right state of mind went on a shooting spree. No different than the shooter in VA or Luby's in Texas.

The fact that he was a military member and had an identifiable hostile populace who was close by doesn't change why it happened.

Either way, he was unstable.

[Tom]

And far too many of them are even more unstable.
Get out now - there is no civilization in their future.

[lsbets]

We should have been out of there a long time ago.

This was horrible. First, children, sleeping in their homes. I can't find the words to describe how sick this is.

Second, the outrage from this completely undermines our mission there. The fallout can be devastating.

Third, some people are going to have their careers end over this. How did he get off base? How was he not flagged by his command and sent home? The sergeant of the guard, his squad leader, everyone up to his battalion commander will get hammered over this.

Fourth, his family. His kids will have to grow up knowing what their Dad did.

This whole thing is terrible.

[Ocala Mike]

This could turn out to be a "Kent State" watershed event in what is now Obama's folly in Afghanistan. More than gas prices, this may turn out to be the beginning of the end for the Big O. If a sharp Republican came in now as an anti-war candidate with center-right leanings (not extreme right), I believe that could be a "game change."


Ocala Mike

[HUSKER55]

I was just wondering, when a person has those type of disorders, don't they stick out in a group? I realize they are in a hostile environment and all but still, wouldn't a different pattern of behavior preceded the act?

The way the media plays this, they assume he was normal, like we are all having dinner together, he excuses himself, comes back and "hi guys, I'm back and I just killed 16 women and kids". Whats for desert?

Does it really happen like that????

[bigmack]

I was just wondering, when a person has those type of disorders, don't they stick out in a group? I realize they are in a hostile environment and all but still, wouldn't a different pattern of behavior preceded the act?
It's called snapping.

And after 1910 of our boys & girls dead, 1000 more coalition forces in over 10 years, to have those neanderthals flip out over a mistake at burning already soiled KoRans, by killing our soldiers, one guy who simply snapped is unfortunate but not surprising.

Get the hell out, pronto.

[thaskalos]

Now, if what is being reported is actually true, that a lone US soldier went on a rampage and killed 16 "innocent" civilians, including many children, that is just an awful, awful thing, and I would expect this soldier to be swiftly and harshly punished for his unspeakable crimes.

I doubt he'll be released early like the guy convicted of blowing up Pan Am Flight 103. Yes, I know that was Libya and not Afghanistan, but I'm just showing that justice is usually served by the United States in these instances.


I wouldn't be too sure of that PA...

Let's not forget the worst U.S. atrocity in the past decade...which took place in Iraq in 2005.

Twenty-four unarmed civilians, including women and children, were massacred by eight U.S. Marines in the city of Haditha.

Only one Marine was convicted of any crime...and his punishment was a demotion and a cut in pay.

[thaskalos]

I wouldn't be too sure of that PA...

Let's not forget the worst U.S. atrocity in the past decade...which took place in Iraq in 2005.

Twenty-four unarmed civilians, including women and children, were massacred by eight U.S. Marines in the city of Haditha.

Only one Marine was convicted of any crime...and his punishment was a demotion and a cut in pay.

In the event that my post, which is quoted above, is considered too controversial by some...let me hasten to add that I copied it almost word for word from the last paragraph of the U.S. newspaper article provided below.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/american-service-member-shooting-rampage-afghanistan-officials-article-1.1037022

[PaceAdvantage]

I wouldn't be too sure of that PA...

Let's not forget the worst U.S. atrocity in the past decade...which took place in Iraq in 2005.

Twenty-four unarmed civilians, including women and children, were massacred by eight U.S. Marines in the city of Haditha.

Only one Marine was convicted of any crime...and his punishment was a demotion and a cut in pay.They're already talking about the death penalty for this guy...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/12/10655946-soldier-accused-in-afghan-massacre-could-get-death-penalty

[JustRalph]

Does it really happen like that????

I have experience working with mental patients and being involved in these type of situations a few times (not as many victims, but similar circumstances) and it can happen very much like you described. No warning signs etc.

I have also seen it the other way around. After an event some family or friends look back and realize they missed some signs that may have been telling had they had any clue the state of mind the actor was in.

This is especially true of people who commit suicide or murder suicide. It can be very hard to interpret stress signals based on the environment the person is in. When everybody around them is stressed, it's hard to notice someone who is moving to a new level of stress or is failing to cope effectively.

[Robert Goren]

They're already talking about the death penalty for this guy...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/12/10655946-soldier-accused-in-afghan-massacre-could-get-death-penalty
It will be years before that would happen. He has to trial first. The Fort Hood shooter's trial is now scheduled for June, 3 years after the crime. There is no reason that I can think of that will make this case will move any faster. Whoever the president is 10-15 years down the line after a bunch of appeals will have to sign off on the death penalty.
I have a question for the posters here. Do you think if he hadn't been sent over there again and was still state-side, would he had gone off anyway and killed a bunch a people here? Was he a time bomb just waiting to happen?

[Native Texan III]

The Afghan villagers are insisting it was a group of drunken US soldiers.
Sensibly the line is that it was one man unpredictably going off the rails.
Getting past the US camp guard at 2am - no questions? Politely knocking on the villagers doors? Burning the bodies? Does not sound like a one man operation.

Sadly being under continual stress of being killed at any time and decent people having on their conscience that they have killed a fellow human being they never knew does cause mental disorders in many once decent men.

Next year we walk out and the Taliban walks back in.
Al Queda moved to Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria years ago.
The deaths of 9/11 have been multiplied and now the US is even more hated.
When a veteran turns to crime

He has post traumatic stress disorder; a VA counselor called him "broken."


Windy Horner holds a portrait of her husband, Nick
(left); Laurie Claar holds one of her son Matthew.
Both had posttraumatic stress disorder: Claar killed
himself; Horner is charged in deaths.

More than seven months before his mother's vigil, fueled by guilt and PTSD, the Marine Corps veteran had pulled the trigger on the 9mm pistol in his mouth.

In Iraq, he hunted house-to-house for insurgents, including one Matt shot several times. "Even when Matt told me that, he was shrugging it off," said Matt's father, Roy "Bud" Claar Jr. "But I could see in his face there was more to it than he was letting on."


http://www.zimbio.com/Post-traumatic+stress+disorders/articles/0Irrl_n6PD7/Veteran+Turns+Crime+PTSD+Sufferer+called+Broken

[PaceAdvantage]

Next year we walk out and the Taliban walks back in.
Al Queda moved to Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria years ago.
The deaths of 9/11 have been multiplied and now the US is even more hated.Now hold on a second there. I thought the election of Obama was supposed to cure all that. You talk as if George W. Bush is still in office.

[ArlJim78]

where are all of the calls for Obama and Panetta to be charged with war crimes?

[NJ Stinks]

Now hold on a second there. I thought the election of Obama was supposed to cure all that. You talk as if George W. Bush is still in office.

We didn't know what Obama could cure. We just knew Republicans can't or refuse to cure.

[bigmack]

We didn't know what Obama could cure. We just knew Republicans can't or refuse to cure.
We know what dolts & the media thought he would cure, remind us again what your hero has cured

[Tom]

We know what dolts & the media thought he would cure, remind us again what your hero has cured

Freedom?

[cj's dad]

where are all of the calls for Obama and Panetta to be charged with war crimes?

Silly you. It just doesn't work that way. The media would never support nor encourage such talk when the dims are in office.

Prime example- Larry Craig is forced to resign because he is apparently gay and foot tapping in a men's room, while Barney (I like) Frank(s) can hold office. And lets not forget Billy boy and Monica.

[JustRalph]

We know what dolts & the media thought he would cure, remind us again what your hero has cured

empty seats on cross town buses all over the nation?

[johnhannibalsmith]

empty seats on cross town buses all over the nation?

Well not all of the nation...



Thousands Feel Effect of Bus Strike

Phoenix and Tempe bus drivers on strike

Drivers said they are not asking for more money, but rather, for better working conditions. Specifically, they would like to drive for 12 hours a day, instead of 14 hours.

Out of 56 different issues, the union says 50 have been resolved.

Veolia said the workers are given excellent benefits, including 401K, medical benefits, five weeks of paid vacation and the ability to bank sick days.


http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/traffic/phoenix-tempe-bus-drivers-on-strike-03122012

[lsbets]

We know what dolts & the media thought he would cure, remind us again what your hero has cured

He certainly didn't cure stupid.

[JustRalph]

He certainly didn't cure stupid.

he educated a few.......apparently......... this guy hits on some good points

w5lq6UX3DMI

[johnhannibalsmith]

Just reading this article and this jumped out at me:

"U.S. and other foreign soldiers listening to Panetta had been asked to leave their weapons outside, a highly unusual move that was downplayed as a gesture to Afghan troops who were unarmed during the address."


Really? I know it is termed a "highly unusual move", but I'm wondering from some of our members just exactly how unusual that might be and whether perhaps morale is so awful that this is necessary when a guy like Panetta shows up.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/15/us-afghanistan-idUSBRE82B1F820120315

[lsbets]

Just reading this article and this jumped out at me:

"U.S. and other foreign soldiers listening to Panetta had been asked to leave their weapons outside, a highly unusual move that was downplayed as a gesture to Afghan troops who were unarmed during the address."


Really? I know it is termed a "highly unusual move", but I'm wondering from some of our members just exactly how unusual that might be and whether perhaps morale is so awful that this is necessary when a guy like Panetta shows up.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/15/us-afghanistan-idUSBRE82B1F820120315


Its not unusual at all.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Its not unusual at all.

Thanks. Coming from a source like Reuters, the whole phrasing of the paragraph seemed to imply that the author had an opinion that this tidbit deserved more attention.

[bigmack]

The soldier and his wife had “a very healthy marriage,” Mr. Browne said. Their two children are 3 and 4 years old.

A decorated soldier who grew up in the Midwest, the man enlisted within a week of the terrorist attacks of 2001, he said.

“He felt it was his duty to stand up for the United States,” said Mr. Browne, who has handled many high-profile cases in the Northwest, including the recent defense of the teenage fugitive known as the Barefoot Bandit, Colton Harris-Moore.

Mr. Browne, who said he met with “a very large group of family members” on Wednesday and spoke with the soldier by telephone on Thursday, said the man had “been decorated many, many times. He’s been to Iraq twice. He was injured twice and he was deployed back to Afghanistan. He is a career military man.”

He added, “He was injured in Iraq in two places on his body, so he wasn’t certain he was healthy enough to go back, physically.”

Mr. Browne said the soldier suffered a concussion during a vehicle rollover accident caused by a roadside bomb. He also lost part of a foot in another episode.

He confirmed that the soldier, part of the Third Stryker Brigade, Second Infantry, had served three tours in Iraq with that unit.

He declined to say whether the sergeant might have psychological or mental health issues, and he also would not say whether the soldier had confessed. Mr. Browne said he would wait for the government to release the man’s name.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/16/world/asia/suspect-in-afghan-attack-snapped-us-official-says.html

[johnhannibalsmith]

The icing on the cake - he's a fat cat 1%er type specializing in fraud through investment. The metaphors are endless. OWS rejoice.


Financial regulators found that Bales "engaged in fraud, breach of fiduciary duty, churning, unauthorized trading and unsuitable investments," according to a report on Bales filed in 2003. Bales and his associates were ordered to pay Liebschner $1,274,000 in compensatory and punitive damages but have yet to do so, according to Liebschner.

"We didn't know where he was," Liebschner told ABC News. "We heard the Bahamas, and all kinds of places."

Liebschner says he recognized Bales after news reports named him as the American soldier accused of killing 16 Afghan villagers in a shooting rampage.

Liebschner filed a complaint against Bales in May 2000, claiming Bales took his life savings of $852,000 in AT&T stock and through a series of trades reduced its value to nothing



http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-murder-suspect-bales-took-life-savings-says-223934030--abc-news.html

[Tom]

I just found out today......one of the two marines murder by the Afganimals for burning their comic books was the son of a customer of mine, who I see fairly regularly.

The family is distraught.

Guess those murdering savages never bothered actually read the book.

[JustRalph]

The icing on the cake - he's a fat cat 1%er type specializing in fraud through investment. The metaphors are endless. OWS rejoice.
http://news.yahoo.com/afghan-murder-suspect-bales-took-life-savings-says-223934030--abc-news.html

He was not. He was a low level broker who worked for a shit company who pumped and dumped a bunch of stocks, and screwed over their customers. The company was prosecuted, several of their employees were found liable and ordered to pay. He might have been a scum bag broker, but he was never a 1%er.

A puke maybe, but a fat cat? No.....

[johnhannibalsmith]

He was not...
A puke maybe, but a fat cat? No.....

It was an effort at sarcasm reflecting a news report that I had seen on (CNN, I think) news that was trying so hard to connect "the mindset of a monster" to Wall Streeters. I tried to find a suitable video to embed and laugh at but couldn't so did a (poor, apparently) parody of the reporting.