bad spill at Charles Town

[Robert Fischer]

horse was making a move to take command and the horse went down and a lot of them went down

[Robert Fischer]

race 8 about 5min ago

[Robert Fischer]

only 1 horse made it home

[Wickel]

Horrible spill! Worst I've ever seen. Praying that jocks and horses are alright.

[Robert Fischer]

Horrible spill! Worst I've ever seen. Praying that jocks and horses are alright.

need some good luck here
let the jockeys be ok
and the horses make it through this

[Robert Fischer]

got to call off race 9

[Wickel]

got to call off race 9


Agree. Track's in bad shape. Nothing from the stewards yet.

[Wickel]

Ninth race cancelled.

[oexplayer68]

Oh my, that was horrible! I pray that everyone involved will be okay!

[Robert Fischer]

Agree. Track's in bad shape. Nothing from the stewards yet.

guess we'll have to check the charts and google? to find out more info on the jocks and horses.

track was a mess
they had to "float" it before that race.

[cj]

How in the world did even that one rider stay on? That was some balance.

[AlbertButtry]

Oswald Pereira was the only rider to stay on and I have no idea how he did. Hope everyone is ok

[Grits]

Can't watch it, but prayers and thoughts for riders and horses. This is never, good when more than one is injured. Certainly not, either, when its only one.

[goatchaser]

3 horse the only horse to finish was on the rail...6 who was the leader was off the rail when he went down...3 escaped on the inside......the rest..It was just a Domino affect. Very Scary to watch. Even after the race....The 3 who finished was standing alone near the rail with Jock aboard. All of a sudden here comes 3 riderless horses right toward him..2 veered off...The 3rd stopped at the last second and slipped through inside of the winner and only horse to finish.

[RXB]

That was absolutely horrible; I've never seen anything quite like it and hope I never see it again. Four horses were okay but I fear for the others. Sure hope the riders escaped serious injury.

[goatchaser]

I heard on TVG 3 Jocks were transfered to the Hospital...King of good news since 7 fell. At least 4 horses I saw got up and were running after the race

[Robert Fischer]

I heard on TVG 3 Jocks were transfered to the Hospital...King of good news since 7 fell. At least 4 horses I saw got up and were running after the race

lets hope it is good news

8 horses started

[RXB]

Good news on the horse front; all of the horses that went down are listed as "walked off" in the charts. :ThmbUp:

[BombsAway Bob]

How can one horse crossing the Wire Be Declared An Official race,
unless perhaps there are only two runners to start?
Simple... TAKEOUT!
CharlesTown Stewards should be thrown in jail for stealing Bettors
money. In addition to WPS/Ex/Tri/Super takeout, they would have
lost Late DD pool money, too!
----------------
$2.00 Exacta 3-ALL =$5.60
$2.00 Trifecta 3-ALL-ALL =$5.60
$1.00 Trifecta Box =$2.80
$0.50 Superfecta 3-ALL-ALL-ALL =$1.30
$2.00 Double 5/3 =$102.80
$2.00 Double 3/ALL =$6.80
$2.00 Pick-3 5/3/ALL- 3 of 3 =$149.40
$0.50 Pick-4 3/5/3,4,7/ALL- 3 of 4 =$590.15

[RXB]

Good news on the horse front; all of the horses that went down are listed as "walked off" in the charts. :ThmbUp:

Whoops, I meant all except the #6 that obviously broke down.

[Robert Fischer]

How can one horse crossing the Wire Be Declared An Official race,
unless perhaps there are only two runners to start?
Simple... TAKEOUT!
CharlesTown Stewards should be thrown in jail for stealing Bettors
money. In addition to WPS/Ex/Tri/Super takeout, they would have
lost Late DD, P3, P4 pool money, too!
----------------
$2.00 Exacta 3-ALL $5.60
$2.00 Trifecta 3-ALL-ALL $5.60
$1.00 Trifecta Box $2.80
$0.50 Superfecta 3-ALL-ALL-ALL $1.30
$2.00 Double 5/3 $102.80
$2.00 Double 3/ALL $6.80
$2.00 Pick-3 5/3/ALL 3 of 3 $149.40
$0.50 Pick-4 3/5/3,4,7/ 3 of 4 $590.15

what is the standard procedure in a wipe out race ?

I lost $20 win on 8.
edit (pretty meaningless here)

[Wickel]

TVG reporting that jockey M.A. Mawing broke his collarbone, Mitchell Snow cut up his arm pretty bad, but nothing on other jocks. TVG says it got e-mail from Travis Dunkelberger. He might be on live soon.

[BombsAway Bob]

what is the standard procedure in a wipe out race ?

I lost $20 win on 8.
edit (pretty meaningless here)
i believe most states need at least half the field to finish.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

How can one horse crossing the Wire Be Declared An Official race,
unless perhaps there are only two runners to start?
Simple... TAKEOUT!
CharlesTown Stewards should be thrown in jail for stealing Bettors
money. In addition to WPS/Ex/Tri/Super takeout, they would have
lost Late DD, P3, P4 pool money, too!
----------------
$2.00 Exacta 3-ALL =$5.60
$2.00 Trifecta 3-ALL-ALL =$5.60
$1.00 Trifecta Box =$2.80
$0.50 Superfecta 3-ALL-ALL-ALL =$1.30
$2.00 Double 5/3 =$102.80
$2.00 Double 3/ALL =$6.80
$2.00 Pick-3 5/3/ALL- 3 of 3 =$149.40
$0.50 Pick-4 3/5/3,4,7/ALL- 3 of 4 =$590.15
I've seen races called off due to the starting gate not getting out of the way, but I don't see an issue here. I'm pretty sure the rules in every jurisdiction are the same in this case. I hate using this as an example, but wasn't Ruffian's last race a parimutuel event? You only need one horse to finish the race. And there here were quite a few starters in the Charles Town race. I've yet to see a refund issued on a horse that unseated its rider during a race unless it was part of a complete race refund.

[RXB]

I've seen races called off due to the starting gate not getting out of the way, but I don't see an issue here. I'm pretty sure the rules in every jurisdiction are the same in this case. I hate using this as an example, but wasn't Ruffian's last race a parimutuel event? You only need one horse to finish the race. And there here were quite a few starters in the Charles Town race. I've yet to see a refund issued on a horse that unseated its rider during a race unless it was part of a complete race refund.

This would've been declared "no contest" in a lot of places. I can specifically remember betting a race in Northern Cal many years ago where more than half of the field failed to finish and there was a full race refund.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

This would've been declared "no contest" in a lot of places. I can specifically remember betting a race in Northern Cal many years ago where more than half of the field failed to finish and there was a full race refund.
I think it would depend on the reason for the spill (maybe a horse running in the wrong direction). I really don't see an issue here.

[RXB]

I think it would depend on the reason for the spill (maybe a horse running in the wrong direction). I really don't see an issue here.

It was the same basic situation although not quite as horrifying as this one looked because fewer horses and riders went down. A horse broke down, two or three horses fell over it and a few others (my bet included) were impeded so badly that they basically pulled up and were out of it. There was a full race refund.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

It was the same basic situation although not quite as horrifying as this one looked because fewer horses and riders went down. A horse broke down, two or three horses fell over it and a few others (my bet included) were impeded so badly that they basically pulled up and were out of it. There was a full race refund.
I'd like to see the actual example. Here is a case of a refund due to a horse running in the wrong direction. I can agree with the refund here, and luckily no one was hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azTktl2gnyk

[Robert Fischer]

I couldn't complain if I had the Winner, and they called it a "no-contest".
Wouldn't be upset with either decision. (losing $20 on a non-finisher)

I know that when 1 horse goes down the race is official.

With the whole field going down, I don't know ??

there has to be other examples where more than half the field failed to finish?
any precedent here ?

[RXB]

I'd like to see the actual example. Here is a case of a refund due to a horse running in the wrong direction. I can agree with the refund here, and luckily no one was hurt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azTktl2gnyk

I love Google-- and BRIS chart archives. Bay Meadows, April 4, 2001. Race 8. Nine starters. Six DNF's. One horse broke down, one fell over the stricken horse and another lost its rider in the process of avoiding the spill. Three others were impeded so badly as to lose all chance. Flip The Kitty, LA Polly and Laststarofpromise finished but the stewards declared the race no contest.

[AlbertButtry]

Rule No.

Rule Title



1544

Calling off Race.


These are California rules.


Rule Text

(a) If the stewards determine a race cannot start before midnight or cannot be conducted in accordance with the Board's rules and regulations, they shall cancel and call off such race. (b) The stewards may declare a race no contest if mechanical failure or interference during the running of the race affects the majority of horses in such race. (c) Any wagers on races called off, canceled, or declared no contest shall be refunded, and no purse, prize or stakes shall be awarded. (d) If a race is called off, canceled, or declared no contest, any submitted claims shall be void. (e) A race shall be canceled if no horse covers the course. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420 and 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19562, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: Amendment filed 11-22-06; effective 12-22-06.

[AlbertButtry]

I love Google-- and BRIS chart archives. Bay Meadows, April 4, 2001. Race 8. Nine starters. Six DNF's. One horse broke down, one fell over the stricken horse and another lost its rider in the process of avoiding the spill. Three others were impeded so badly as to lose all chance. Flip The Kitty, LA Polly and Laststarofpromise finished but the stewards declared the race no contest.

Also one from Del Mar 9/4/2005

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Rule No.

Rule Title



1544

Calling off Race.


These are California rules.


Rule Text

(a) If the stewards determine a race cannot start before midnight or cannot be conducted in accordance with the Board's rules and regulations, they shall cancel and call off such race. (b) The stewards may declare a race no contest if mechanical failure or interference during the running of the race affects the majority of horses in such race. (c) Any wagers on races called off, canceled, or declared no contest shall be refunded, and no purse, prize or stakes shall be awarded. (d) If a race is called off, canceled, or declared no contest, any submitted claims shall be void. (e) A race shall be canceled if no horse covers the course. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420 and 19440, Business and Professions Code. Reference: Section 19562, Business and Professions Code. HISTORY: Amendment filed 11-22-06; effective 12-22-06.
The word "may" means it is a judgment call. I believe New York Stewards can also call a race void too, but the rule is very vague:
4035.5. Stewards may declare race void, order refund.

The stewards shall have the authority to declare a race void and to order all wagers made thereon refunded if they shall determine that any occurrence before or during the running of such race calls for such action by them.
http://www.racing.state.ny.us/about/thbred/Sec4035.1-4039.22.html

[duncan04]

How can one horse crossing the Wire Be Declared An Official race,
unless perhaps there are only two runners to start?
Simple... TAKEOUT!
CharlesTown Stewards should be thrown in jail for stealing Bettors
money. In addition to WPS/Ex/Tri/Super takeout, they would have
lost Late DD pool money, too!
----------------



Easy, it's Charles Town. They don't care about racing, their main concern is the slots and casino! :(

[pdxmike]

By the looks of the chart it seems the winner got the whole purse. True?

[johnhannibalsmith]

Don't want to watch a replay from the sound of it, but sure hope everyone makes it out of it in at least good shape.

[v j stauffer]

How can one horse crossing the Wire Be Declared An Official race,
unless perhaps there are only two runners to start?
Simple... TAKEOUT!
CharlesTown Stewards should be thrown in jail for stealing Bettors
money. In addition to WPS/Ex/Tri/Super takeout, they would have
lost Late DD pool money, too!
----------------
$2.00 Exacta 3-ALL =$5.60
$2.00 Trifecta 3-ALL-ALL =$5.60
$1.00 Trifecta Box =$2.80
$0.50 Superfecta 3-ALL-ALL-ALL =$1.30
$2.00 Double 5/3 =$102.80
$2.00 Double 3/ALL =$6.80
$2.00 Pick-3 5/3/ALL- 3 of 3 =$149.40
$0.50 Pick-4 3/5/3,4,7/ALL- 3 of 4 =$590.15

Many jurisdictions have different rules for these type instances.

In California the stewards would use rule #1544 to guide their decision.

It reads....................

1544. Calling off Race.

(a) If the stewards determine a race cannot start before midnight or cannot be conducted in accordance with the Board’s rules and regulations, they shall cancel and call off such race.

(b) The stewards may declare a race no contest if mechanical failure or interference during the running of the race affects the majority of horses in such race.

(c) Any wagers on races called off, canceled, or declared no contest shall be refunded, and no purse, prize or stakes shall be awarded.

(d) If a race is called off, canceled, or declared no contest, any submitted claims shall be void.

(e) A race shall be canceled if no horse covers the course.

Hope that sheds some helpful light.

Praying for the fallen jockeys and horses.

[v j stauffer]

OOPS:blush:

Just scrolled back and saw Albert's post.

Good job A.

[hencicleva]

Easy, it's Charles Town. They don't care about racing, their main concern is the slots and casino! :(

Racing isn't viable at Charles Town without the slots, but this statement doesn't really gell with the $1,000,000 prize at the Charles Town Classic, which they have no obligation to keep running.

[wisconsin]

Easy, it's Charles Town. They don't care about racing, their main concern is the slots and casino! :(


Sorry, but this just does not make sense. Aqueduct has just 2 finishers in this race a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLsJbOrPsSU

Do they not care about racing?

[BombsAway Bob]

Sorry, but this just does not make sense. Aqueduct has just 2 finishers in this race a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLsJbOrPsSU
Do they not care about racing?
Wow... guess i'm wrong... :blush:
(Anyone following my picks on Twitter know that is no surprise!)
Honestly thought "No Contest" was only fair result for bettors.

[LAP_520]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-rQofsWM9Q




In the eighth race at Charles Town on February 29, 2012 only one out of the eight runners finished an ugly allowance sprint in the slop.

Sharp Beauty set the pace but broke down near the quarter pole under Carlos Marrero, setting off a chain reaction that left only one horse and rider standing at the finish line.

Little Miss Jane, Spunkette, Shine For Me, and Simsational fell and walked off.
Page's Promise fell and walked off with cuts on her left front leg and left stifle.
Ideal Thoughts stumbled at the start and trailed before losing her rider trying to avoid the spill.

Post time favorite Miss Fifty won the demolition derby after checking sharply to avoid the spill under Oswald Pereira. She paid $5.60 to win.

[Robert Fischer]

How in the world did even that one rider stay on? That was some balance.

It looked like his horse MISS FIFTY, really came through for him. Both she and Oswald Pereira showed pretty amazing balance. Either could have easily gone down.

[stringmail]

That was crazy. In watching the replay, pertty eventful for the jock on the 1, stumble out of gate to almost fall off and then the horse goes down in the resulting fall.

Almost disaster after the race, when the winner has stopped his gallop and the loose horse narrowly avoids running into jock and horse.

[OTM Al]

Wow... guess i'm wrong... :blush:
(Anyone following my picks on Twitter know that is no surprise!)
Honestly thought "No Contest" was only fair result for bettors.

To me, fair is following the rules. In NY, there are rules specifically covering what happens to the pools if only one horse finishes. Looks like CT has basically the same rules. I too was under the impression that a certain percentage had to finish the race here, but had that wrong. Only called off and full refunds if no one finishes, also in the rules.

[wisconsin]

I feel the correct rule is in place. There is no protection for anyone in any race. Your horse clips heels, you don't get a refund. Your horse stumbles, no refund, and on and on. If you claim a horse, and this happens, you own the horse. Nobody cries for the new owners.

What do you say to the winning ticket holders? Should they have their winnings taken away? Can't have it both ways.

They did refund place and show wagers. The rule is written as I would write it myself. This is gambling.

[onefast99]

The winner trained by Scooter Davis was given the entire purse of $28,000.00.

[pdxmike]

I posted that I thought this was what happened. Pretty sick. Make an extra 12g's if the rest of the field gets wiped out.. Hmm. The jock should get most of that - amazing he stayed on the horse

[Steve 'StatMan']

I feel the were correct in awarding 1st to the winner - was up among the leaders when they had their mishap, although did have to check. It wasn't as if most of the field fell in front, and he was the slowpoke survived by walking around the carnage and continuing on. The winner was the one next in line behind the mishap.

[pdxmike]

If you are referring to the couple posts above you...the issue isn't that the horse was awarded first it's that the purse of the race was 28,000 and instead of getting 60% of that for the win, the owner was given the entire 28k since no other horse finished.

[tbwinner]

If you are referring to the couple posts above you...the issue isn't that the horse was awarded first it's that the purse of the race was 28,000 and instead of getting 60% of that for the win, the owner was given the entire 28k since no other horse finished.

This is usually the rule in place by most jurisdictions. If only one horse crosses the finish line OR there are so many scratches resulting in only one horse "racing" (called a walkover), the entire purse is awarded to the 1st place runner.

[PICSIX]

Anyone out there have statistics on breakdowns at CT compared to the industry average?? I've seen a few there this season on the slop!! :mad: :mad:

Mike

[Steve 'StatMan']

If you are referring to the couple posts above you...the issue isn't that the horse was awarded first it's that the purse of the race was 28,000 and instead of getting 60% of that for the win, the owner was given the entire 28k since no other horse finished.

You raised an interesting point. Sorry for confusion, was refering to the prior posts about possibly declaring the race 'No Contest'.

I wonder if they really the full purse to the winner, or if this is just how the chart entry program handles this, since the results have to be up online in 25-30 minutes. and this is a very rare occurance. I'm thinking the track book keeper will do whatever they're supposed to do, regardless of what's in the results chart. So I'm not fully convinced yet on how much the winners received (nor too concerned, though curious).

[davew]

most places have rules for partial refunds for horses declared 'non-starters' -> gate does not open, horse not in stall, blanket still on horse, ....

and if the stewards decide to stop the race during the running -> starting gate (or horse, jockey) stuck on track in path of racers, ....


this was a terrible crash, but there was a finisher

[Robert Fischer]

Anyone out there have statistics on breakdowns at CT compared to the industry average?? I've seen a few there this season on the slop!! :mad: :mad:

Mike

No one is mentioning that they floated the track between races 7 and 8(breakdown).

[jeebus1083]

I feel the correct rule is in place. There is no protection for anyone in any race. Your horse clips heels, you don't get a refund. Your horse stumbles, no refund, and on and on. If you claim a horse, and this happens, you own the horse. Nobody cries for the new owners.

What do you say to the winning ticket holders? Should they have their winnings taken away? Can't have it both ways.

They did refund place and show wagers. The rule is written as I would write it myself. This is gambling.

Yes, it's gambling, and I see your points, but the majority of the field was taken out, thus did not give the bettors a fair shake for ANY wager. The right thing to do in this circumstance would have been to declare the race a "no-contest" and make the proper refunds.

Would all wagers have been losers had all the horses fallen?

Another reason why this game is dying a slow death.

[nijinski]

There is a you tube video of the 08 race at Oaklawn Park with the starting gate malfunction. It's quite a sight and thankfully no one was hurt . Calvin Borel apparently pulled up first alerting all the riders the gate was still
on the track in the stretch. One of the horses did go around it to finish up first while most pulled up . I undertand that the purse was distributed to all the starters evenly. At least that's what I read.

[bushwick]

Very bad situation for all involved but I believe the stewards made the right call. Why should the backers of the winner not be rewarded.

[jeebus1083]

Very bad situation for all involved but I believe the stewards made the right call. Why should the backers of the winner not be rewarded.

Because the horse won on a technicality? It's easy to win a race when the rest of your competition gets wiped out. Sorry, but this isn't demolition derby.

[OTM Al]

Yes, it's gambling, and I see your points, but the majority of the field was taken out, thus did not give the bettors a fair shake for ANY wager. The right thing to do in this circumstance would have been to declare the race a "no-contest" and make the proper refunds.

Would all wagers have been losers had all the horses fallen?

Another reason why this game is dying a slow death.

No, it wouldn't have been the right thing to do if the rules say otherwise and if you ever looked at the rules in any jurisdiction you would know that if they have provisions for only one horse finishing, they'll have provisions when none do. What you have stated essentially says the game is dying because its customers are willfully ignorant of the rules of the game.

[Knowclew]

Because the horse won on a technicality? It's easy to win a race when the rest of your competition gets wiped out. Sorry, but this isn't demolition derby.

This was a horrible event, but to me it is not a technicality. It is a result that occurred in a race with no outside influences.

Lights go dark in the middle of a race.
Starting gate tractor can on get the gate half off the track in a route race.
Starting gate only opens one gate, one horse races.

To me, those would qualify.

But this happened in the normal running of a race...horses do break down.
If one or two horses are impeded, no changes are made. This is just an extreme example of what can happen.

What if this wasn't a breakdown, but that rider lost his irons, carried one horse out, and all the other riders slowed to a walk to go around these two
horses, and the winner wins by 40....even though all horses finish, they were just as compromised from winning? Should this be a no contest?

I'm not picking on you Jeebus by using your quote. There are many people who feel your way. This is one of those gray area topics.

I would have no problem if there was a firm rule that said X amount must finish when X amount start. Leaving this at the discretion of the stewards.....I think this may be what we are all really concerned about.

[jk3521]

Sometimes i feel that the only way i could cash a ticket would be for all the rest of the horses to fall down! Figures that Scooter Davis, who could use a few winners (joke) cashed big time due to this scarey incident.

[appistappis]

My buddy owns the horse that caused the accident...unfortunately the horse broke both his front legs.