Speaking of Etiquette

[Dahoss9698]

http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/febrace.pdf


Public Comments : Vic Stauffer presented a letter to each member of the Committee, with copies to be given to all Board members, and asked that the committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona as the 2012 Fair Announcer.



I'm sure there's a good explanation and all, but trying to take a colleague's job has to go against some kind of announcer code, right?

[proximity]

seeking attractive, mature woman with box seat at sonoma county fair for possible ltr.....:rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/febrace.pdf


Public Comments : Vic Stauffer presented a letter to each member of the Committee, with copies to be given to all Board members, and asked that the committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona as the 2012 Fair Announcer.



I'm sure there's a good explanation and all, but trying to take a colleague's job has to go against some kind of announcer code, right?
Why doesn't this surprise me?

[Tom]

Wow.
That is kind of low-class. Wonder how he'd like it if Trevor showed up at Hollywood?


The ladies hat day is an intriguing proposal, though.
NYRA?

[cj]

I thought there was some unwritten announcer brotherhood.

[KingChas]

Hard to believe some find this shocking, "Dog eat Dog" is the current USA mentality. :eek:

[Dave Schwartz]

Public Comments : Vic Stauffer presented a letter to each member of the Committee, with copies to be given to all Board members, and asked that the committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona as the 2012 Fair Announcer.

My best guess is that there is more to this story than what we see here.

Just my opinion.


Regards,
Dave schwartz

[toussaud]

There is ovbiusly only one way to solve this. Celebrity Death Match.


Seriously though I'm not going to crap on the guy. It's a dog eat dog world out there. when it comes to bettering my career and putting food on the table screw being nice, I'm going to do whatever I can within the law to get what I can and and you it would be wise if you did the same. I am quite sure vic cares about mr. wronga's job but not at the expensive is his. that's not very practical in a capitalist society.

[bigmack]

that's not very practical in a capitalist society.
Heaven's no. Certainly not practical. :rolleyes:

Ethically not so mush.

Guy's awready been given the gig! This would be like Sammy D Jr., going to The Sands and tryin' to squeeze out Martin. Although I'd much rather see Sammy over DM. :ThmbDown:

[thaskalos]

There is ovbiusly only one way to solve this. Celebrity Death Match.


Seriously though I'm not going to crap on the guy. It's a dog eat dog world out there. when it comes to bettering my career and putting food on the table screw being nice, I'm going to do whatever I can within the law to get what I can and and you it would be wise if you did the same. I am quite sure vic cares about mr. wronga's job but not at the expensive is his. that's not very practical in a capitalist society.
Yeah...but wasn't it Vic Stauffer who was so vocal in his condemnation of Andy Beyer for pointing out Richard Grunder's shortcomings as a race caller in one of his columns...and didn't he preach ethics to us when he was questioned about it?

[toussaud]

Heaven's no. Certainly not practical. :rolleyes:

Ethically not so mush.
if i have learned anyting over the years as a business man is that everyone has ethics until it comes to bettering their bottom line or are in a position to take advantage of you then they have excuses and rationalizations.

\I've had clients just flat out lie about not getting websites that cost high 4 figures and have had to dispute credit card transactions for services that i could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt i rendered. hell at this very moment \ and i am not making this up, the only reason i'm up this late is because i had a client who owes me the third installment of a payment for a job that did for him, we built his website for him and he owes us about 1800 dollars , we moved the site and he got cute and tried to change the password on the site and lock us out so we couldn't get to the site, thinking he could just walk away from the job and not pay the 1800 dollars. what he doesn't know is we have software that allows us to get to the site's file s and delete them embedded into every site we build so right now i'm taking his site off the internet. not my first rodeo. So don't come to me about being ethic. . no one gives 2 shits about you or your career at the end of the day. screw the fact that I have employees and i have to make payroll. screw the fact that the services were rendered above and beyond what he expected. he's just going to try to get over because he can.

if vic thinks he has a legit chance to get the job, do what you gotta do. doesn't mean he doesn't like michael. but it' s a grind out there. gotta put food on the table.

[thaskalos]

if i have learned anyting over the years as a business man is that everyone has ethics until it comes to bettering their bottom line or are in a position to take advantage of you then they have excuses and rationalizations.

\I've had clients just flat out lie about not getting websites that cost high 4 figures and have had to dispute credit card transactions for services that i could prove beyond a shadow of a doubt i rendered. hell at this very moment \ and i am not making this up, the only reason i'm up this late is because i had a client who owes me the third installment of a payment for a job that did for him, we built his website for him and he owes us about 1800 dollars , we moved the site and he got cute and tried to change the password on the site and lock us out so we couldn't get to the site, thinking he could just walk away from the job and not pay the 1800 dollars. what he doesn't know is we have software that allows us to get to the site's file s and delete them embedded into every site we build so right now i'm taking his site off the internet. not my first rodeo. So don't come to me about being ethic. . no one gives 2 shits about you or your career at the end of the day. screw the fact that I have employees and i have to make payroll. screw the fact that the services were rendered above and beyond what he expected. he's just going to try to get over because he can.

if vic thinks he has a legit chance to get the job, doe what you gotta do. doesn't mean he doesn't like michael. but it' s a grind out there. gotta put food on the table.

Wow...

Have you ever thought of writing a book about your life? It sounds fascinating...

[johnhannibalsmith]

Yeah...but wasn't it Vic Stauffer who was so vocal in his condemnation of Andy Beyer for pointing out Richard Grunder's shortcomings as a race caller in one of his columns...and didn't he preach ethics to us when he was questioned about it?

Not to mention his tirade against Craig Braddick about "shitting where he eats" or some such violation of the announcer fraternity.

[bigmack]

if i have learned anyting over the years as a business man is that everyone has ethics until it comes to bettering their bottom line or are in a position to take advantage of you then they have excuses and rationalizations.
Few here are more qualified than I about running a business for decades. If you have found people to lack THAT MUCH in character when being a professional, I question the line of bidness you's in.

OH, internet. Well come on, that's plastic.

Here I go with another hyperbolic analogy ala Patrick/Porn....

So if you're willing to do anything to get a gig, would you do something illegal? Where do you draw the line on this 'dog eat dog' existence?

[thaskalos]

Not to mention his tirade against Craig Braddick about "shitting in his own house" or some such violation of the announcer fraternity.

And let's also not forget how heartbroken Vic was when Craig lost his job at Yavapai...

A real class act this Mr. Stauffer...

[KirisClown]

Sonoma uploaded a copy of the letter.. it starts on page 23.. Letter To The Committee (http://sonomacountyfair.com/docs/febagenda.pdf)

[bigmack]

Sonoma uploaded a copy of the letter.. it starts on page 23.. Letter To The Committee (http://sonomacountyfair.com/docs/febagenda.pdf)
Well this is unfortunate.

It do blow the 'capitalistic' theorem touSand was floatin' out the back window.

Work for free?

[olddaddy]

Is there a written contract with Wrona or is this a hand shake agreement? This all confuses me of why Stauffer would expect them to either salt n pepper Wronas contract or renege on a hand shake agreement.

[thaskalos]

It makes sense I guess...

Just because our bills are being paid, and our family's financial future is secure...does that mean we can't railroad someone out of a job that's rightfully his?

[chickenhead]

Got's announcers playin'....back stabbers....back stabbers! WHAT THEY DO? they smilin' in yo' face, all the while they wanna take yo' place...

[bigmack]

Got's announcers playin'....back stabbers....back stabbers! WHAT THEY DO? they smilin' in yo' face, all the while they wanna take yo' place...
Very clever, Chick. :ThmbUp:

Know what? This is SO unseemly and SO inside it feels odd to be reading such things. Perhaps in fairness to VJS, cj could close this t until he has a chance to respond. Utterwise, things could get ugly REAL fast.

[turninforhome10]

Very clever, Chick. :ThmbUp:

Know what? This is SO unseemly and SO inside it feels odd to be reading such things. Perhaps in fairness to VJS, cj could close this t until he has a chance to respond. Utterwise, things could get ugly REAL fast.

Second

[olddaddy]

Very clever, Chick. :ThmbUp:

Know what? This is SO unseemly and SO inside it feels odd to be reading such things. Perhaps in fairness to VJS, cj could close this t until he has a chance to respond. Utterwise, things could get ugly REAL fast.

Yea WAY too much personal info in that letter for all to see. It shouldnt be here.

[proximity]

instead of closing the thread we should be coming up with a better plan that sonoma could implement to make better use of that $4500 a week they're going to pay a guy to announce races.

here's mine:

hire a university of az kid to call the races at a small fraction of that price and use the rest to have two running double elimination heads up handicapping tournaments for live sonoma fans. tournament A by number of winners (with criteria to break ties) and tournament B by total prices of daily winners with all picks submitted in person before these live cards. i say use this money to promote handicapping and live racing attendance!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Very clever, Chick. :ThmbUp:

Know what? This is SO unseemly and SO inside it feels odd to be reading such things. Perhaps in fairness to VJS, cj could close this t until he has a chance to respond. Utterwise, things could get ugly REAL fast.cj? Oh, now cj is first call around here... :lol:

I'll remind you sir...oh, never mind...

Anyway, why close it? It's all there in black and white...a matter of public record. Nothing is being "disclosed" here....

[PaceAdvantage]

Yea WAY too much personal info in that letter for all to see. It shouldnt be here.It's not here on PaceAdvantage...it's on the http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/ website. Part of the public record.

[Dave Schwartz]

I read Vic Stauffer's letter.

What I heard was a man pleading for a job that he used to have. I read no indication that he was throwing Wrona under the bus. He did not even mention Mr. Wrona's name.

Of course, logically, if Mr. Stauffer gets the job then Mr. Wrona doesn't.

Now, I admit that I try to see the best in people wherever I can but my take here was a little different. I see a competitive situation. If Mr. Wrona already had the job then it was just wasted effort. If not, then it was competitive effort.

Of course, perhaps there is an unwritten code about unseating a "sitting" announcer. (Pun intended.) If so, then my assessment is dead wrong and Mr. Stauffer should have known better.

But until someone who has such knowledge of the "code of announcers" I will choose to give Vic the benefit of the doubt and assume he did not cross a line.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz
As always the opinions expressed
by Mr. Schwartz do not necessarily
represent those of management.
:lol: :lol:

[olddaddy]

It's not here on PaceAdvantage...it's on the http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/ website. Part of the public record.

Oh ok, I didnt know. I just didnt want anyone getting into trouble here.

[bigmack]

instead of closing the thread we should be coming up with a better plan that sonoma could implement to make better use of that $4500 a week they're going to pay a guy to announce races.

here's mine:

hire a university of az kid to call the races at a small fraction of that price and use the rest to have two running double elimination heads up handicapping tournaments for live sonoma fans. tournament A by number of winners (with criteria to break ties) and tournament B by total prices of daily winners with all picks submitted in person before these live cards. i say use this money to promote handicapping and live racing attendance!!
Cost cutting. :ThmbUp: See, I knew this was going to move in a nice direction. Who was the nut that wanted it shut down? Back of the bus for you, Bub.

Any other ideas for announcer? Is William Conrad available?

http://www.series-80.net/acteurs/william_conrad/acteur_william-conrad_6_1141998499.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

Or, if bigmack had his way:

As always the opinions expressed
by Mr. Schwartz do not necessarily
represent those of cj.
:lol: :lol:

:D

[bigmack]

Or, if bigmack had his way:
:D
Hey. Ya never know who's behind the curtain. You, with your 4-5 hrs. sleep/night.

Shoulda k.nown.

[foregoforever]

Before dumping on Vic any more, I suggest that everyone read the letter. The bit about "reconsidering the hiring of Wrona" was from whoever wrote up the agenda. Vic's letter says nothing about Wrona or anyone else. It simply says that he'd like to be considered for the job ... one that he had for 16 years through 2008 and obviously has great affection for.

His letter indicates that he asked about returning last year and seemed to be on track for calling the 2011 meet before his steward gig got in the way. Wrona called the meet in 2010, so this suggests that they might have been planning to go back to Vic then.

So this seems a bit more involved than it appears. I see nothing wrong with Vic making a pitch for a job that he had for 16 years.

[proximity]

Cost cutting. :ThmbUp:

http://www.series-80.net/acteurs/william_conrad/acteur_william-conrad_6_1141998499.jpg

not cutting costs...... just redistributing those funds to the live players and fans.

[thaskalos]

On page 10, item #18 of the letter, it states:

"Approval to hire Michael Wrona to announce the 2012 meet."

[bigmack]

not cutting costs...... just redistributing those funds to the live players and fans.
Snappy idea. Got any others on cocktail napkins you'd like to share?

So this seems a bit more involved than it appears. I see nothing wrong with Vic making a pitch for a job that he had for 16 years.
What does it matter had he had it for 40 years? They hired someone else for the position already. Hate to say it but this was more a plea than anything else.

[foregoforever]

It should also be noted that Vic's letter isn't dated, so we don't know if it pre-dates their decision to hire Wrona for 2012. Again, his letter says nothing about reconsidering anything.

[olddaddy]

It should also be noted that Vic's letter isn't dated, so we don't know if it pre-dates their decision to hire Wrona for 2012. Again, his letter says nothing about reconsidering anything.

It states that Stauffer was present at the 2/9/12 meeting and presented the letter at that meeting, Wrona was approved at the 1/19/12 meeting.

[chickenhead]

psst, john -- "don't shit in a glass house"

[foregoforever]

It states that Stauffer was present at the 2/9/12 meeting and Wrona was approved at the 1/19/12 meeting.

But it doesn't say whether the 1/19 decision (by the Racing Committee) was announced or was final, or if it was pending the approval of the full Board.

I just don't think we have all the facts at this point.

[olddaddy]

But it doesn't say whether the 1/19 decision (by the Racing Committee) was announced or was final, or if it was pending the approval of the full Board.

I just don't think we have all the facts at this point.

It says approval to hire Wrona, I dont know forsure either. Ill just wait and see now.

[PaceAdvantage]

This really is much to do about nothing...the likely outcome being Wrona won't be having Stauffer over for Christmas goose this year...other than that, why does any of this even matter?

[bigmack]

This really is much to do about nothing...the likely outcome being Wrona won't be having Stauffer over for Christmas goose this year...other than that, why does any of this even matter?
dahoos wanted to 'blow the lid' off Stauffer.

Mission accomplished. (Blow smoke off barrel o' gun)

[thaskalos]

This really is much to do about nothing...the likely outcome being Wrona won't be having Stauffer over for Christmas goose this year...other than that, why does any of this even matter?

Now wait a minute PA...

When Craig Braddick dared to post, in a casual way, that Tom Durkin was past his prime, which is something that is readily apparent to all, Stauffer was LIVID...and he reprimanded Craig for violating some sort of unwritten ethical code that exists between race announcers...which prohibits them from taking shots at one another.

And now it is discovered that Vic orchestrated something like this?

It seems to me that it matters a lot...because it presents Mr. Stauffer to us in a better light...

[PaceAdvantage]

So you're playing this as sort of a "60 Minutes" exposé? The dirty underworld of racetrack announcer hypocrisy exposed? :lol:

[thaskalos]

For those that don't like Stauffer, you are correct.

So Stauffer gets to attack Braddick on ethical grounds...but when we attack Stauffer on the same ethical grounds, it must be because we don't like him.

[PaceAdvantage]

So Stauffer gets to attack Braddick on ethical grounds...but when we attack Stauffer on the same ethical grounds, it must be because we don't like him.I changed my post...I like my new version better.

[Track Phantom]

Other than the letter being a bit over the top in terms of adulation, I don't think Vic did anything out of line by indicating he would like to be reconsidered for a job he used to have. He is probably looking at it more like Wrona has HIS job not him looking to take Wrona's job (not that I agree).

Having said that, if there is some unwritten code between announcers to walk gingerly when working to fill a position that is not currently vacant, then I can see why people would feel it is not too good on his part.

[thaskalos]

I changed my post...I like my new version better.

Do you even remember the incident I am talking about?

Do you remember Vic belittling Craig for daring to say anything derogatory about someone in Durkin's "class"?

And how he made a mock reference about Craig's lost announcing job at Yavapai?

And the class that Craig exemplified by admitting his wrongdoing openly...and offering a public apology on this board?

Who is Vic Stauffer to treat people like that?

[Track Phantom]

Do you even remember the incident I am talking about?

Do you remember Vic belittling Craig for daring to say anything derogatory about someone in Durkin's "class"?

And how he made a mock reference about Craig's lost announcing job at Yavapai?

And the class that Craig exemplified by admitting his wrongdoing openly...and offering a public apology on this board?

Who is Vic Stauffer to treat people like that?

You make a valid point. If that is how it played out, it is very condescending on Vic's part....and if you're going to carry yourself that way, you need to make sure you aren't throwing stones into glass houses (or whatever the saying is).

[PaceAdvantage]

Do you even remember the incident I am talking about?

Do you remember Vic belittling Craig for daring to say anything derogatory about someone in Durkin's "class"?

And how he made a mock reference about Craig's lost announcing job at Yavapai?

And the class that Craig exemplified by admitting his wrongdoing openly...and offering a public apology on this board?

Who is Vic Stauffer to treat people like that?I certainly do remember it.

Did Vic bad mouth Wrona? Did he even claim he was a better announcer than Wrona?

I really don't see the parallel that you are trying to draw quite honestly.

Hell, he didn't even mention Wrona in the letter. So how exactly did he break the "code" that he busted Craig's balls about?

[thaskalos]

I certainly do remember it.

Did Vic bad mouth Wrona? Did he even claim he was a better announcer than Wrona?

I really don't see the parallel that you are trying to draw quite honestly.

Hell, he didn't even mention Wrona in the letter. So how exactly did he break the "code" that he busted Craig's balls about?

Yes...Stauffer clearly states in the letter that he considers himself to be the better man for the job.

And here is my "parallel":

If an unwritten code exists which prohibits Craig Braddick from making a casual remark about Tom Durkin being past his prime...then that unwritten code should also prohibit Vic Stauffer from going after Michael Wrona's job.

And that Stauffer's attack on Braddick was the most blatant display of hypocrisy that I have seen in a very long time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes...Stauffer clearly states in the letter that he considers himself to be the better man for the job.

And here is my "parallel":

If an unwritten code exists which prohibits Craig Braddick from making a casual remark about Tom Durkin being past his prime...than that unwritten code should also prohibit Vic Stauffer from going after Michael Wrona's job.

And that Stauffer's attack on Braddick was the most blatant display of hypocrisy that I have seen in a long time.I don't relish the job of appearing to defend Vic, but shouldn't every prospective job seeker consider him or herself to be the best man/woman for the job?

Employers like confidence.

And again, I'll point out that he never mentions Wrona, never points out any time Wrona may have made a mistake while calling a race...never said Wrona was past his prime...

He's just a dude looking to get his old gig back...if you say that breaks the "announcers code," the same code that Vic was critical of Craig for breaking, then I guess he's a hypocrite. It just isn't as clear to me as it is to you.

[thaskalos]

I don't relish the job of appearing to defend Vic, but shouldn't every prospective job seeker consider him or herself to be the best man/woman for the job?

Employers like confidence.

And again, I'll point out that he never mentions Wrona, never points out any time Wrona may have made a mistake while calling a race...never said Wrona was past his prime...

He's just a dude looking to get his old gig back...if you say that breaks the "announcers code," the same code that Vic was critical of Craig for breaking, then I guess he's a hypocrite. It just isn't that clear to me as it is to you.

Look PA...

I wouldn't ordinarily get involved in something like this so deep, because it isn't my style...but I remember vividly the vitriolic way with which Vic attacked Craig, and how badly he made him feel -- for no reason at all.

How do you tell a person who just lost his race-announcing job, that you are not sorry to see that happen to him...when you are a race announcer yourself?

And for what? For making a casual comment about someone else?

[Robert Goren]

Stauffer's letter comes off as sour grapes. It appears that because he left on good terms in the past and now was trying to get his old job back and he thought they would give it to him. It appears that he thought it was the fair thing for them to do. He has a point. However I will say this, a lot of employers don't like to revisited the past when it comes to rehiring former employees. For whatever reason, Stauffer didn't get this job. He needs to move on. Almost anything you say publicly about not getting job you applied for will interrupted badly by future potential employers. It may not be fair, but it is the way of the world. His letter was a mistake in judgement.
I wish Stauffer well in his future efforts to find employment. He is a very good track announcer.

[PaceAdvantage]

Look PA...

I wouldn't ordinarily get involved in something like this so deep, because it isn't my style...but I remember vividly the vitriolic way with which Vic attacked Craig, and how badly he made him feel -- for no reason at all.

How do you tell a person who just lost his race-announcing job, that you are not sorry to see that happen to him...when you are a race announcer yourself?

And for what? For making a casual comment about someone else?Like I said, I don't relish this role I've imposed upon myself in this thread, for whatever ungodly reason.

It must be my undying need to play Devil's advocate.

To me, it's a bit of a stretch to equate the two situations. That's all. Just my opinion.

[Track Phantom]

Like I said, I don't relish this role I've imposed upon myself in this thread, for whatever ungodly reason.

It must be my undying need to play Devil's advocate.

To me, it's a bit of a stretch to equate the two situations. That's all. Just my opinion.


I think it simply comes down to whether Vic knew Wrona was offered the job.

If he didn't and simply thought the job was vacant, there is zero in that letter that is inappropriate.

If he did know, then it looks bad and I agree with Thas that to put someone down in such a condescending way indicates you are above it. It may appear he wasn't.

[thaskalos]

I think it simply comes down to whether Vic knew Wrona was offered the job.

If he didn't and simply thought the job was vacant, there is zero in that letter that is inappropriate.

If he did know, then it looks bad and I agree with Thas that to put someone down in such a condescending way indicates you are above it. It may appear he wasn't.

BINGO!

[Tom]

Luck.....Season 3.

[lamboguy]

its going to be great to have peter berry back this friday. not hearing his voice the last 3 months has left a distinct void in my life.

[Peter Berry]

its going to be great to have peter berry back this friday. not hearing his voice the last 3 months has left a distinct void in my life.
I hope Stauffer hasn't given Jim Dolan any ideas.

[JustRalph]

How about they give Stauffer the gig, at half his pay. Send the other half to Wrona and Michael can sit around a play the horses with it.

PA, you were taking the words right out of my mouth. Sounds like Vic had a change of heart and is letting them know that.

No big deal. They ultimately choose.

I have a feeling Wrona and Stauffer aren't getting as worked up about this as some on this board. And btw, it has nothing at all to do with "ethics" it's two guys wanting the same job. Neither has impugned the other in any way as far as I can tell.

No big deal

[BlueShoe]

instead of closing the thread we should be coming up with a better plan that sonoma could implement to make better use of that $4500 a week they're going to pay a guy to announce races.
This is the first time have ever seen a track announcers salary mentioned. Have always thought that they were well compensated, but at first glance that seems to be a lot of money. On second glance, when considering that an announcer only works certain meetings and is idle much of the time, perhaps it is not all that much considering total yearly earnings. Have to wonder though, if a California Fair pays at that rate, what is the scale at the big SoCal, NYRA, and KY tracks? Star announcers working the major tracks with long meetings likely do pretty well.

[cj]

I hope Stauffer hasn't given Jim Dolan any ideas.

So do those of us that listen to Mnr.

[usedtolovetvg]

Vic has been the most ardent supporter of both the industry and the sport. He is currently going through what many have over the years. He is fighting for his economic survival. In some societies the aged are revered for their knowledge, in others they are put on ice flows and sent out to die. Perhaps, some of this country's economic woes are tied to the fact that those younger who have taken over have an attitude that they know more than the previous generation and want nothing to do with those aged dinosaurs. Check out the movie 'Idiocracy'! Not a great movie, but this may be the end game for our society. One would have hoped that there would be a smooth transition and those moving up would capitalize on the knowledge and experience of those who have come before. Youth, beauty and greed are the gods we bow down to (Kim Kardashian), knowledge, hard work and dedication take a back seat. I feel for all those that been swept aside and for those who's egos dictate they know it all. Such is the way of the world in which we live. Then again, I could be wrong.

[Dahoss9698]

Then again, I could be wrong.

Yeah...you are.

[usedtolovetvg]

Yeah...you are.

I always assume that.

[Light]

I don't know all the details,but to say Vic is trying to take the job at Sonoma away from Wrona can't be accurate because Vic has been the regular announcer at the Sonoma county fair. He's probably just trying to get his job back.

[cj]

I don't know all the details,but to say Vic is trying to take the job at Sonoma away from Wrona can't be accurate because Vic has been the regular announcer at the Sonoma county fair. He's probably just trying to get his job back.

It isn't like he lost it last year. It has been a few years at least. I'm guessing this will be at least the 3rd or 4th year he has been gone.

[Light]

Wrona has been the caller the last 2 seasons. Vic called the races there for 16 years prior to that and currently works as a steward there.I think he prefers being a race caller and is simply trying to get his job back. I don't see that as a malicious move.

[JBmadera]

I thought Vic chimed in at one point, different thread, and said that he was really happy with the move to being a steward......I wonder why he hasn't dropped in and addressed this, I'm sure that there is a sensible explanation.

[Striker]

If they chose to give him this job back, what's to say after a year or two he wants to pursue another job in the industry, or even outside the horse racing industry, and leave them in the same situation like he did a few years ago? I would hope this is in the back of their minds if they are considering giving him his job back.

[GameTheory]

Does Vic even know about this thread? Maybe a title change to "Stauffer Violates Honor Code!" will put it on his radar.

For myself, I'm with PA -- we either need more facts, or we need to forget we ever found out about this. I don't see a reason to crucify the guy at this point...

[Roy C]

He used to be Rosario's agent, should he get that job back too if he wants it?

[ArlJim78]

So Stauffer gets to attack Braddick on ethical grounds...but when we attack Stauffer on the same ethical grounds, it must be because we don't like him.
what is unethical about applying for a position?

[cj]

what is unethical about applying for a position?

I'm sure we would all love it if someone went to our employer and told them they would do our job for half, or even nothing. How do you apply for a position that isn't open anyway?

[Robert Fischer]

Good for Vic :ThmbUp:

I'm behind you man.

If anything the etiquette? was poor form from this thread. Why is everyday lately we are going-in on someone in general race discussion?? We had the Andy garbage, the pick5 controversy, now Vic is no good...
Whats with the dramaqueen stuff?
Theres a place for it, but is this really our leading discussion every day?? c'mon man...

The man wrote a letter trying to get a gig. The whole thing was in THE OFFICIAL MINUTES of the meeting as posted in this thread. It was an official meeting in proper protocol!! :rolleyes: This wasn't some backstabbing "honor code" violation...

Come on...

I respect Vic for having the confidence to get that gig, and for making moves. That's who I want on my team.

[usedtolovetvg]

I'm sure we would all love it if someone went to our employer and told them they would do our job for half, or even nothing.

I hope that is well remembered when people here call for the firing of tv commentators they don't like.

[cj]

I hope that is well remembered when people here call for the firing of tv commentators they don't like.

I hope you aren't talking about me. I rarely ever comment on TVG (or HRTV) commentators. I did recently with Rich Perloff about something he said that was a factual error, but I said I liked the guy and I meant it.

In any case, those are two different things. Nobody here is actually campaigning for TVG gig, at least as far as I know.

[cj]

I respect Vic for having the confidence to get that gig, and for making moves. That's who I want on my team.

Just be careful he doesn't offer to take over your team for half price.

[Track Phantom]

Just be careful he doesn't offer to take over your team for half price.

CJ-- Why don't you close this thread? Enough has been said on the topic, no?

[usedtolovetvg]

I hope you aren't talking about me. I rarely ever comment on TVG (or HRTV) commentators. I did recently with Rich Perloff about something he said that was a factual error, but I said I liked the guy and I meant it.

In any case, those are two different things. Nobody here is actually campaigning for TVG gig, at least as far as I know.

No i was not talking about you but some of the attacks in this forum have been quite vicious at times. There is never a need to turn anything into a personal attack regardless of the circumstances.

[cj]

CJ-- Why don't you close this thread? Enough has been said on the topic, no?

You should write PA a letter and apply for my job.

[Robert Goren]

You should write PA a letter and apply for my job.He could say he'd do it for half the pay.:lol:

[bigmack]

He could say he'd do it for half the pay.
What's half of nothing and what again is the reason this thread is still alive?

The salt has met the wound.

[Track Phantom]

You should write PA a letter and apply for my job.

Wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just feel for the guy, that's all.

[Robert Fischer]

Just be careful he doesn't offer to take over your team for half price.

point taken
I admit that I don't know the details here.

[cj]

What's half of nothing and what again is the reason this thread is still alive?

The salt has met the wound.

We were hoping you could keep it alive. I guess, since Vic does post here, keeping it open gives him a chance to respond.

[bigmack]

We were hoping you could keep it alive. I guess, since Vic does post here, keeping it open gives him a chance to respond.
'We' meaning you & dahoos?

Give me a break. You could close it, send him a PM and say the thread was closed. If he has a response/comment you could put it in.

[cj]

'We' meaning you & dahoos?

Give me a break. You could close it, send him a PM and say the thread was closed. If he has a response/comment you could put it in.

I honestly never realized how popular this moderator job was before. Even though it is unpaid, I'm guessing I could auction it off!

[ArlJim78]

I'm sure we would all love it if someone went to our employer and told them they would do our job for half, or even nothing. How do you apply for a position that isn't open anyway?
all positions are open. this kind of thing happens every day in every business, sport, you name it. people push to get themselves into jobs that they desire, period. there is nothing whatsoever odd or unethical about it. it's called looking out for yourself and its nothing to be ashamed of or called out on.

of all of the juvenile, spiteful, attacks on Vic that occur on this forum, this one is the most clownish, naive and immature.

[Pine Tree Lane]

No i was not talking about you but some of the attacks in this forum have been quite vicious at times. There is never a need to turn anything into a personal attack regardless of the circumstances.


Thats a good point.

Two Wronas don't make a right! :lol:

[cj]

all positions are open. this kind of thing happens every day in every business, sport, you name it. people push to get themselves into jobs that they desire, period. there is nothing whatsoever odd or unethical about it. it's called looking out for yourself and its nothing to be ashamed of or called out on.

of all of the juvenile, spiteful, attacks on Vic that occur on this forum, this one is the most clownish, naive and immature.

So you are all for someone offering to do your job for free, the one you now hold? Great, good for you. I'm not that good of a person I guess.

[thaskalos]

all positions are open. this kind of thing happens every day in every business, sport, you name it. people push to get themselves into jobs that they desire, period. there is nothing whatsoever odd or unethical about it. it's called looking out for yourself and its nothing to be ashamed of or called out on.

of all of the juvenile, spiteful, attacks on Vic that occur on this forum, this one is the most clownish, naive and immature.
Oh...I get it now...

When it suits us...it's a world of brotherly fraternities, bound by unwritten codes of conduct.

But when our interests lie elsewhere...it becomes a dog-eat-dog world.

Nice...

[bigmack]

Aren't divorce papers part of public record? What if someone waltzed in here and posted details of a divorce, say from all of you nerds that have been divorced?

What about guys that were hopped-up on crack? Is that fair game as well?

What's the point in the generation of this thread but to humiliate someone using public records?

[jelly]

Mr. Michael Wrona did not deserve this.

[Grits]

A document--the approved general minutes of a damn meeting. Still, this is the internet where everything is public, everything is game, therefore, under scrutiny and judgement, even in regard to someone's damn employment, or search for employment. This being particularly true when the person has posted here.

NO ONE deserves this kind of shit. You boys, those of you that are so wrapped up in it, those of you nonames, you roll on though . . . . you're only on page 7.

[Dahoss9698]

Aren't divorce papers part of public record? What if someone waltzed in here and posted details of a divorce, say from all of you nerds that have been divorced?

What about guys that were hopped-up on crack? Is that fair game as well?

What's the point in the generation of this thread but to humiliate someone using public records?

This has nothing to do with trying to humiliate someone using public records. I avoiding posting the letter because I was uncomfortable with it because it has Vic's personal information on it. It has to do with a guy who says one thing and does another.

It's been mentioned before, but Vic went board to board to torment Craig Braddick. Well, don't these actions sort of go against his entire crusade in that instance?

Again, maybe there is more to this story. Only Vic knows and he has definitely seen the thread. His silence speaks volumes IMO.

[Cardus]

I certainly do remember it.

Did Vic bad mouth Wrona? Did he even claim he was a better announcer than Wrona?

I really don't see the parallel that you are trying to draw quite honestly.

Hell, he didn't even mention Wrona in the letter. So how exactly did he break the "code" that he busted Craig's balls about?

Naive.

[Cardus]

A document--the approved general minutes of a damn meeting. Still, this is the internet where everything is public, everything is game, therefore, under scrutiny and judgement, even in regard to someone's damn employment, or search for employment. This being particularly true when the person has posted here.

NO ONE deserves this kind of shit. You boys, those of you that are so wrapped up in it, those of you nonames, you roll on though . . . . you're only on page 7.

Or your grandstanding, above-the-fray moralizing about... everything.

[Grits]

Get effed, Cardus.

[bigmack]

His silence speaks volumes IMO.
You don't think it has anything to do with his embarrassment, do you?

Tin foil hats are met with crack accusations and affronts to Braddick are met with exposed letters that most wouldn't even know about.

All is fair in love, war & those who've argued about ZenYadda.
------------------

Or your grandstanding, above-the-fray moralizing about... everything.
Look at Capt. Didactic. You the one who calls everyone a bigot you possibly can.

You seem to have a chink in your armor; what armor you have.

Why stop with calling PA naive? Run with ignorant.

[Dahoss9698]

You don't think it has anything to do with his embarrassment, do you?

Tin foil hats are met with crack accusations and affronts to Braddick are met with exposed letters that most wouldn't even know about.

All is fair in love, war & those who've argued about ZenYadda.


He should be embarrassed.

Again, I didn't post the letter and I wouldn't know Braddick if he was standing next to me. A buddy of mine from California told me about what Vic was trying to do. To be honest, I thought he was making it up.

It's weird, you're as nasty as can be when someone disagrees with you politically. Yet, you are usually one of the first to chastise people who use similar tactics in this section.

Some might call that being a hypocrite.

[NJ Stinks]

Nobody asked but here goes:

Having read through the thread - including reading through Vic's 'personal' letter - there is only one thing that I am uncomfortable with. And that is where Vic offers in the letter that he will announce the meet for half price. Or less if necessary.

No doubt he just wanted to convey how much he wanted the job again when he made that offer. But that offer changes the criteria for picking Vic based on the fact that he is the most qualified man for the job.

Just imagine if the board decides to keep Michael but only if Wrona matches Vic's half price offer....surely that's not an outcome Vic would want to inflict on Michael if Vic does not get the job.

[bigmack]

Some might call that being a hypocrite.
I'm not even remotely interested in your take on me, Schmuck.

Some people don't like some of your techniques around here. Could you let us know what county of what state you were divorced so we can put some of that paperwork in a thread to question your ethics & morality?

All is fair, right?

Speaking of hippoCreeps - Weren't you & your sidekick vehemently opposed to the Crack Caper with the exposing of information about people in retaliation?

I know, I know, public record. You just wanted folk to be informed. Never any retaliation with you. :rolleyes:

[BetCrazyGirl]

http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/febrace.pdf


Public Comments : Vic Stauffer presented a letter to each member of the Committee, with copies to be given to all Board members, and asked that the committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona as the 2012 Fair Announcer.



I'm sure there's a good explanation and all, but trying to take a colleague's job has to go against some kind of announcer code, right?


I don't get what is wrong with this and I didn't see him insult Michael Wrona (or even mention Michael Wrong) unless I missed something in the letter which is always a possibility. He just highlighted himself for a job he wants, which is kind of what you're suppose to do if going after a job :/.

[Cardus]

Get effed, Cardus.

Classy.

[Beachbabe]

I don't get what is wrong with this and I didn't see him insult Michael Wrona (or even mention Michael Wrong) unless I missed something in the letter which is always a possibility. He just highlighted himself for a job he wants, which is kind of what you're suppose to do if going after a job :/.


Is that a Freudian slip ??

[Cardus]

I'm not even remotely interested in your take on me, Schmuck.

Some people don't like some of your techniques around here. Could you let us know what county of what state you were divorced so we can put some of that paperwork in a thread to question your ethics & morality?

All is fair, right?

Speaking of hippoCreeps - Weren't you & your sidekick vehemently opposed to the Crack Caper with the exposing of information about people in retaliation?

I know, I know, public record. You just wanted folk to be informed. Never any retaliation with you. :rolleyes:

By the way you follow me around this board, I sense that you are trying to curry favor with me.

Interesting strategy: using "schmuck". Lately, you seem fixated on that word.

[Dahoss9698]

I'm not even remotely interested in your take on me, Schmuck.

Some people don't like some of your techniques around here. Could you let us know what county of what state you were divorced so we can put some of that paperwork in a thread to question your ethics & morality?

All is fair, right?

Speaking of hippoCreeps - Weren't you & your sidekick vehemently opposed to the Crack Caper with the exposing of information about people in retaliation?

I know, I know, public record. You just wanted folk to be informed. Never any retaliation with you. :rolleyes:

Please, you're plenty interested. It's why you follow me around like a lap dog.

I actually didn't post in the "crack thread". I had no opinion on the issue. Good try though.

You can keep trying to make this about me, but it isn't. Perhaps you should stick with what you're good at. Bragging to a bunch of other guys about your conquests on the internet. What a nerd.

[bigmack]

You can keep trying to make this about me, but it isn't.
Remind us why you started the thread, nudnik?

[Grits]

Classy.

Like I care.

Honestly, I don't think anyone's following either of you around. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make an ass out of him.

I'm tired of your one liner digs, Cardus. All you've done since you walked in the door of this place is sing background vocals for DaHoss. The guy's bound to get embarrassed sooner or later. He DOESN'T need your assistance.

You keep knocking me in the dirt when I express an opinion here just as anyone else? There's an old saying about Southern women:

"She can go from 0 to Bitch in 3 seconds."

I promise you, I can get it in 2 and change.

Its up to ya. You stay out of my way, and I'll stay out of yours.

[Spalding No!]

I don't get what is wrong with this and I didn't see him insult Michael Wrona (or even mention Michael Wrong) unless I missed something in the letter which is always a possibility.
It's stated in pretty straightforward English that Vic Stauffer asked the Sonoma County Fair committee to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona.

He may not have mentioned Wrona in the letter, but certainly, if the court reporter is to be believed, he mentioned him verbally at the meeting.

[Spalding No!]

You keep knocking me in the dirt when I express an opinion here just as anyone else?
Did you "knock anyone in the dirt" in your original post? Just a few no-names, I guess. No real people.

There's an old saying about Southern women:

"She can go from 0 to Bitch in 3 seconds."

I promise you, I can get it in 2 and change.
Unless you're really a carpetbagger, you ain't just whistling Dixie.

[Dahoss9698]

All you've done since you walked in the door of this place is sing background vocals for DaHoss. The guy's bound to get embarrassed sooner or later. He DOESN'T need your assistance.


I love the subtlety of this. Almost threat like.

How does that old saying go? Oh yeah, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Dahoss9698]

Remind us why you started the thread, nudnik?

Who is us? You and your imaginary dates?

[Grits]

I love the subtlety of this. Almost threat like.

How does that old saying go? Oh yeah, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

No threat; just fact. It is what it is, and has been since his arrival. And you know it to be true. You don't need this man's help, not his or anyone else's.

[bigmack]

Who is us? You and your imaginary dates?
Deflection. Another one of your peeves. You's rackin' up big HypoCreep points just in one thread.

Beam with pride.

[Cardus]

Like I care.

Honestly, I don't think anyone's following either of you around. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make an ass out of him.

I'm tired of your one liner digs, Cardus. All you've done since you walked in the door of this place is sing background vocals for DaHoss. The guy's bound to get embarrassed sooner or later. He DOESN'T need your assistance.

You keep knocking me in the dirt when I express an opinion here just as anyone else? There's an old saying about Southern women:

"She can go from 0 to Bitch in 3 seconds."

I promise you, I can get it in 2 and change.

Its up to ya. You stay out of my way, and I'll stay out of yours.

Like I care.

[Cardus]

There were, though, a few attempts at neat rhetorical tricks in your last post, Grits.

Not a bad effort.

Ineffectual, bad not a bad effort.

[Dahoss9698]

No threat; just fact. It is what it is, and has been since his arrival. And you know it to be true. You don't need this man's help, not his or anyone else's.

I was referring to the "bound to get embarrassed sooner or later" line.

I think what has happened here is a good example of what happens to internet conversations. It becomes less about the subject and more about who is saying what.

I'm guilty of it too, but if someone else starts this thread, no one questions it like they have here.

[Dahoss9698]

Deflection. Another one of your peeves. You's rackin' up big HypoCreep points just in one thread.

Beam with pride.

You've deflected everything I have responded to so far. I don't answer to the likes of you.

You're holding a nearly 2 year grudge because I bruised your internet ego because I play your game better than you. Get over it already man.

[BetCrazyGirl]

Is that a Freudian slip ??


LOL, it wasn't, just a typo

[Robert Fischer]

this thread is a great way to show the new horseplayers from "LUCK" that we are all a bunch of degenerates, nice... :blush:

[bob60566]

Going downhill as this thread is

Mac:ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown: :ThmbDown:

[BetCrazyGirl]

So those who see this as morally wrong, you guys never went for a job that someone else wanted or was offered? I don't find many who would pass up a job they want just because they knew someone else wanted it or give up because it was offered to someone else.

[Spalding No!]

So those who see this as morally wrong, you guys never went for a job that someone else wanted or was offered? I don't find many who would pass up a job they want just because they knew someone else wanted it or give up because it was offered to someone else.
Michael Wrona was already hired for the position.

I love how people are trying to turn this into some sort of "The Notebook" rehash.

I can see the movie poster now:

Vic Stauffer in the Ryan Gosling role holding the already taken Santa Rosa microphone up in the air in the pouring rain in a scene of orgiastic reunion.

It's not despicable...it's destiny...

[HuggingTheRail]

Aw heck, I'm going to send them a letter and offer to do the announcing in Pig Latin....

[The Hawk]

I just read the letter and what I took from it is the passion that Vic has for that job is incredible. That said, what he did was reprehensible, and he knows it, which is why he's been silent on the issue. Just one opinion.

[bigmack]

Just to review. Dahoos gets a tip from his pal in the Golden State.

Mulls it over in his head that it would be nice reprisal for VS in light of his dressing down of C. Braddick, and generates thread.

It's been mentioned before, but Vic went board to board to torment Craig Braddick. Well, don't these actions sort of go against his entire crusade in that instance?
For some unknown reason, Jim (KirisClown) links to the actual letter from VS.

Speculation ensues. Bird brains weigh-in on either side.

In conclusion, are the parties that wanted to give Stauffer some comeuppance satisfied and prepared to put it bed while they wallow in their low-rent vidication?

[chickenhead]

not to get too meta, but this thread has been trending that way from the start...

I don't get it....this selective horror.

This is the internet. A message board. This is what we do.

Half-cocked, fully-loaded, out-of-bounds, on-target, everyone in the pool. News comes out. It gets chewed over, and digested via ridiculous argumentation. All day err day.

Why are you trying to abort the boards digestion? What is uniquely obscene, here?

We don't only discuss topics once the subject has responded, the contrary. We don't only discuss topics once all facts are out. Discussing them is what brings the people that know some facts to post them. The subject generally has no idea this message board exists.

Doesn't that make this particular public digestion more honest? That the subject could, or has been, reading it? That the facts are hovering around, just waiting to land?

The ebbs and flows dictate Vic will probably show up with a hell of a good story, and brutally smack down half the respondents. Or, maybe he shows up and just shows his ass. Or maybe, something really boring happens and, nothing.

But I don't see what makes this so different, so special, and so touchy. Tasty gossip will always get digested in full, and it's always right out there in public.

[Spalding No!]

In conclusion, are the parties that wanted to give Stauffer some comeuppance satisfied and prepared to put it bed while they wallow in their low-rent vidication?
I like your idea earlier, about closing the thread and letting the parties that want to keep beating a dead horse do so via private messages.

Of course, since you yourself have tallied up the most posts in this thread, perhaps you should go PM yourself.

[riskman]

This has nothing to do with trying to humiliate someone using public records. I avoiding posting the letter because I was uncomfortable with it because it has Vic's personal information on it. It has to do with a guy who says one thing and does another.

It's been mentioned before, but Vic went board to board to torment Craig Braddick. Well, don't these actions sort of go against his entire crusade in that instance?



Again, maybe there is more to this story. Only Vic knows and he has definitely seen the thread. His silence speaks volumes IMO.

So,you are enjoying in the space of a few hours that Stauffer has been battered by this unwelcome thread and the public airing of the Sonoma Racing Committee Meeting on Feb. 9th. because "a guy says one thing and does another." Your masterly maneuvering could not have been forecast of the drubbing to come here. Just a coincidence, none,nada. I know, you care about horse racing, and if it needs repair, you'll fix it.
Me thinks you promptly put your foot in it ,again.

[bigmack]

I like your idea earlier, about closing the thread and letting the parties that want to keep beating a dead horse do so via private messages.

Another fan of my posts. Thanks for your patronage. Bow to my majesty.

Don't tell me you read multiple horse forums like those other dweebs?

Nutty, how you, dahorse & cardoof always swim in the same pool.

Cess, right?

[Show Me the Wire]

Much ado about nothing. In December the Sonoma County Fair was given the authority to hire Michael Wrona. In the draft minutes of Feb. 9th there is a request to invite the past 3 racing announcers to present their qualifications to the committee in March. Seems Mr. Stauffer presented his qualifications prior to the March meeting, really no big deal at all.

[PaceAdvantage]

Much ado about nothing. In December the Sonoma County Fair was given the authority to hire Michael Wrona. In the draft minutes of Feb. 9th there is a request to invite the past 3 racing announcers to present their qualifications to the committee in March. Seems Mr. Stauffer presented his qualifications prior to the March meeting, really no big deal at all.So what you're saying is then, that Wrona actually has NOT been hired yet...

Hmmmm...now it gets interesting...

[PaceAdvantage]

So, even though Wrona may not have in fact been formally hired (ie. signed a contract or whatever formalities must take place), it is clear the board made the decision to hire Wrona prior to Vic's letter. It's right there in black and white.18. Approval to hire Michael Wrona to announce the 2012 race meet.

It also states in the February 9 Minutes:Vic Stauffer presented a letter to each member of the Committee, with copies to be given to all Board members, and asked that the Committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona as the 2012 Fair Announcer (attachment #1).Then, later in the minutes, it states:To invite the past 3 racing announcers to the March Committee meeting to present their qualifications

[Dahoss9698]

I don't get it....this selective horror.



The selective horror is because I posted it. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Cardus]

I am so envious of the "California Cool" style of posting.

[Spalding No!]

Another fan of my posts. Thanks for your patronage. Bow to my majesty.

Don't tell me you read multiple horse forums like those other dweebs?

Nutty, how you, dahorse & cardoof always swim in the same pool.

Cess, right?
Whatever, dude. You were on topic for 2 or 3 posts in here, no doubt to let us peons know the definitive and correct opinion on the matter. Then, you came up with the bright idea to close the thread, under the pretense that the letter was "personal". The more likely reason...you had given your sermon (with all the cute little potshots and breakdowns into ebonics), no one cared, you got miffed, and so you threw a tantrum.

Hence the dozen or so subsequent posts attacking various people on the board.

Nothing new here.

That's my take anyways. Now I'll go back to posting about horse racing on this horse racing message board. Meanwhile, you can go back to discussing politics and bullying other posters on this horse racing message board.

Or go PM yourself a second time.

[BetCrazyGirl]

So, even though Wrona may not have in fact been formally hired (ie. signed a contract or whatever formalities must take place), it is clear the board made the decision to hire Wrona prior to Vic's letter. It's right there in black and white.

It also states in the February 9 Minutes:Then, later in the minutes, it states:

If that is in there, him asking to reconsider Wrona then that is pretty low. There are better ways to present yourself when going after a position, even one which is taken.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nowhere in his letter does he mention Wrona...that much has been settled.

If that is in there, him asking to reconsider Wrona then that is pretty low. There are better ways to present yourself when going after a position, even one which is taken.

[PaceAdvantage]

Naive.Objective is more like it.

[GameTheory]

Seriously, has anyone directly told Vic about this thread? Is he ignoring it or hasn't he seen it?

[PaceAdvantage]

He's quite aware of the thread's existence.

Not sure what he can say...he pretty much said it all in that letter, don't you think?

And people seem to keep glossing over the fact that the board is asking all THREE former announcers to show up and make their case (Wrona, Stauffer and Frank M.) at the next meeting.

Thus, it can be assumed Wrona was not officially hired...the board approved his hiring, but no contract offer had been extended or any other type of firm agreement of employment.

Now that the board has discovered it has options that did not exist prior to approving the hiring of Wrona, they are doing the responsible thing and reviewing each option available.

[GameTheory]

He's quite aware of the thread's existence.

Not sure what he can say...he pretty much said it all in that letter, don't you think?He can make clear the timeline of what he knew about the Wrona hiring when presenting the letter, whether he actually did ask them to un-hire Wrona and hire him instead, whether he had communicated with Wrona at all, and all of the other things we are speculating on...

[Roy C]

We need Andy Mays to put together a boycott of Santa Rosa if Wrona gets screwed :D

[Light]

Thus, it can be assumed Wrona was not officially hired...

Then Vic is a smart cookie to stay out of this thread.

[menifee]

He wants a job. Someone else has it. He's making a pitch for it. This is wrong, how...

This is America - goods and services move freely, so does labor. Anyone else can make a pitch for the job either and I am sure Michael Wrona can point out that the good people of Santa Rosa really don't need to hear over the top screaming stretch calls for 5k claimers.

If you want a friend, buy a dog.

[olddaddy]

It appears no one really knows whats going on here. If Wrona didnt get a contract or a hand shake agreement, the job is open. I never played this meet but they cant go wrong with Wrona, Frank M or Vic, 3 very good race callers. (Honestly I want Frank M. to get it so I can hear some of his impersonator calls)

[Vengeance of Rain]

dahoos wanted to 'blow the lid' off Stauffer.

Mission accomplished. (Blow smoke off barrel o' gun)
I read the last few pages of this thread but your posts in particular made me want to go back and read the whole damned thing.

I did so.

As far as the subject matter goes of course I have an opinion like the rest of you but it's not important. I did feel strange reading the letter but am not such a good person that I stopped. I read it all and it made me wonder where the line is between voyerism and publc record, what should and shouldn't constitute privacy, etc.

The point I'd like to make though isn't about Mr. Stauffers conduct. Whether something is legitimate or disgraceful there is something else here that, in a weird way, is interesting.

I believe racing forums are little microcisms. They are mini-worlds and there are all the usual things including, shall we say, the traditional rivalries here and there.

That said, as an outsider, I'm sorry to say that there is one person on this thread who seems to be perpetuating a kind of negativity.

It's not Dahoss nor is it Cardus.

Can you guess who it is?

Respectfully Sir (or Madame) I am merely pointing out the observations of an outsider.

I'm sure these two people aren't saints, none of us are, but you treat them like they're Satan and Satan Jr.

Maybe that's your thing, to needle people, or maybe it's just the two of them. It's none of my business but if all these pages can be devoted to the behavior of an individual and whether or not it's appropriate I figure it's alright for someone new to make an observation.

Just sayin.

[BetCrazyGirl]

Are there any female racetrack annoucers?

[thaskalos]

Vengeance of Rain...is it me?

If so...I assure you, that was not my intention.

[Vengeance of Rain]

Vengeance of Rain...is it me?

If so...I assure you, that was not my intention.
I thought I was too new to say wow you seem like a real douchebag (not you).

There are 151 opinions in this thread.

That was mine.

[Greyfox]

Then Vic is a smart cookie to stay out of this thread.

Exactly. :ThmbUp: If the job is still open, any response he could give here would be jumped on. Good Luck Vic.

[bigmack]

There are 151 opinions in this thread.
That was mine.
You're too new to have an opinion. Buzz off.

Best stay clear of me. I'm nuts.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lme0c1CoS21qe0eclo1_r10_500.gif

[Robert Fischer]

Are there any female racetrack annoucers?

good question

[GameTheory]

Are there any female racetrack annoucers?No. I've never heard a woman call a race in my life. Someone mentioned a guest announcer that was a woman in another announcer discussion we once had, but that's it.

[proximity]

This is the first time have ever seen a track announcers salary mentioned. Have always thought that they were well compensated, but at first glance that seems to be a lot of money. On second glance, when considering that an announcer only works certain meetings and is idle much of the time, perhaps it is not all that much considering total yearly earnings. Have to wonder though, if a California Fair pays at that rate, what is the scale at the big SoCal, NYRA, and KY tracks? Star announcers working the major tracks with long meetings likely do pretty well.

the old john bothe meadowlands lawsuit was the only other time i can remember this being brought up. $52,000-$73,000 a year, but he had to analyze pps and expose himself to gambling for the $73,000.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1999-02-09/sports/18100581_1_handicap-races-gambling-meadowlands-management

[FenceBored]

Michael Wrona's letter to the Sonoma County Fair is included in the agenda for the March 8th meeting of the Racing Committee.

www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/marracingagenda.pdf

[Dahoss9698]

Wrona is a class act. Unfortunate that he even had to do that.

[Cardus]

In matters of substance, Wrona's is an exemplary letter.

Stylistically, it is better.

[foregoforever]

Why are these letters being posted on the web? Aren't job applications and resumés generally considered private between the applicant and employer?

[FenceBored]

In matters of substance, Wrona's is an exemplary letter.

Stylistically, it is better.

Insinuating that the other guy is a lazy agreement-breaking self-promoting specious 'handle increasing' braggart who's a walking conflict of interest is exemplary? :confused:

Clearly, to paraphrase the old Smucker tagline, if it's a shot at Stauffer, it has be good.

[Dahoss9698]

Insinuating that the other guy is a lazy agreement-breaking self-promoting specious 'handle increasing' braggart who's a walking conflict of interest is exemplary? :confused:

Clearly, to paraphrase the old Smucker tagline, if it's a shot at Stauffer, it has be good.

Well, considering he had to write a letter to keep a job that was already offered to him, it was exemplary.

Look, I get it, it's cool to suck up to the "names" but come on.

[Vengeance of Rain]

You're too new to have an opinion. Buzz off.

Best stay clear of me. I'm nuts.

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lme0c1CoS21qe0eclo1_r10_500.gif

I missed this one before.

Well aren't you just so interesting and eclectic..

[Robert Fischer]

Remove shoes before entering homes and restaurants.

[Robert Fischer]

Do not mix sake with any other alcohol.

[JustRalph]

Why are these letters being posted on the web? Aren't job applications and resumés generally considered private between the applicant and employer?

not when submitted for state jobs or any job that is subject to "open records" laws. Basically any job that uses public funds to pay the salaries.

Most states this means police and fire and everybody in a government job

[PhantomOnTour]

When in a fine dining environment, males should always stand when a female member of your party leaves or returns to the table.

[foregoforever]

not when submitted for state jobs or any job that is subject to "open records" laws. Basically any job that uses public funds to pay the salaries.

Most states this means police and fire and everybody in a government job

But does the Sonoma County Fair fall in that category? Nothing on their web site implies any connection to the government.

The site has RFP's for all sorts of services connected to the fair, but I don't see copies of the submitted proposals.

This whole thing stinks.

[PaceAdvantage]

But does the Sonoma County Fair fall in that category? Nothing on their web site implies any connection to the government.

The site has RFP's for all sorts of services connected to the fair, but I don't see copies of the submitted proposals.

This whole thing stinks.Where in this country is racing not highly regulated by State Government? And if that's the case, then meetings such as this are open and placed into the public record. Vic knew that before he submitted his letter, as did Wrona.

It's the price they pay for fame and fortune. :lol:

[NTamm1215]

But does the Sonoma County Fair fall in that category? Nothing on their web site implies any connection to the government.

The site has RFP's for all sorts of services connected to the fair, but I don't see copies of the submitted proposals.

This whole thing stinks.

What "stinks"? The letter originally submitted by Vic Stauffer was a topic covered at a meeting by a public entity. Thus, it was published in the minutes, just like everything else that was covered in the meeting. This is vastly different from the hiring process at a private company, where clearly things would be kept confidential.

[foregoforever]

What "stinks"? The letter originally submitted by Vic Stauffer was a topic covered at a meeting by a public entity. Thus, it was published in the minutes, just like everything else that was covered in the meeting. This is vastly different from the hiring process at a private company, where clearly things would be kept confidential.

But that's my question: is the fair a public entity? In Virginia, fairs are run by private companies.

If a topic is covered in a public board meeting, there should be note of the discussion in the minutes. But that doesn't mean that submissions to the board by private citizens should necessarily be published.

The Virginia Racing Commission is a government-appointed entity, and they publish their agendas and minutes. But whenever something comes up regarding personnel, they go into closed session, insert the standard words to that effect in the minutes, and there's no other mention of it.

So this all seems strange to me. Of course, California is an entirely different world.

[PaceAdvantage]

But that's my question: is the fair a public entity? In Virginia, fairs are run by private companies.

If a topic is covered in a public board meeting, there should be note of the discussion in the minutes. But that doesn't mean that submissions to the board by private citizens should necessarily be published.

The Virginia Racing Commission is a government-appointed entity, and they publish their agendas and minutes. But whenever something comes up regarding personnel, they go into closed session, insert the standard words to that effect in the minutes, and there's no other mention of it.

So this all seems strange to me. Of course, California is an entirely different world.You're right. They must have made an exception for Vic just so they could publish his address and phone number... :rolleyes:

[NTamm1215]

But that's my question: is the fair a public entity? In Virginia, fairs are run by private companies.

If a topic is covered in a public board meeting, there should be note of the discussion in the minutes. But that doesn't mean that submissions to the board by private citizens should necessarily be published.

The Virginia Racing Commission is a government-appointed entity, and they publish their agendas and minutes. But whenever something comes up regarding personnel, they go into closed session, insert the standard words to that effect in the minutes, and there's no other mention of it.

So this all seems strange to me. Of course, California is an entirely different world.

Yes, the fairs are governed by the CARF, which is a public entity (at least to my knowledge). If a submission is paid and considered by the board members, then it can certainly be published in the minutes.

I'm not sure that you're insinuating that Vic's letter was published so that he could be subject to ridicule, but if you are, I completely disagree.

[foregoforever]

Yes, the fairs are governed by the CARF, which is a public entity (at least to my knowledge). If a submission is paid and considered by the board members, then it can certainly be published in the minutes.

I'm not sure that you're insinuating that Vic's letter was published so that he could be subject to ridicule, but if you are, I completely disagree.

Thanks for the reference to CARF. From their site, it's "established by California Law" but its board is made up of reps from member fairs. Not sure where that shakes out, public-wise.

No such insinuation intended, but I still think it's irregular to be publishing job applications and related letters in agendas and minutes.

[JustRalph]

you're kidding right?

It's the "Sonoma County Fair" as in "the county" which is a government agency....I am sure when it all comes down to it......the county rules supreme

maybe not.....you're right, it's california

here is an example of public records and salaries being available

Know anybody in Charlotte that works in government?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/06/30/94573/city-of-charlotte-salary-database.html#storylink=misearch

Btw, for those who know my full name...........no longer in there :lol:

[foregoforever]

you're kidding right?

It's the "Sonoma County Fair" as in "the county" which is a government agency....I am sure when it all comes down to it......the county rules supreme


The Halifax County Fair in my hometown is not run by the county but by a private concern. Same for every other county fair in Virginia that I know about. Counties may issue them a permit and allow them to use the name, but that's as far as it goes. The notion of a county government actually running a fair that lasts for all of one week is crazy.

The Virginia State Fair isn't run by the state but by a private corporation ... that filed for bankruptcy last week.

California may do it differently, but I doubt that every employee of the Sonoma County Fair has their salary posted in some database.

Way OT. My apologies.

[Spalding No!]

Way OT. My apologies.
That wasn't OT. That was a straight up filibuster.

At least you didn't provide links to pages in the Halifax County phonebook.

[JustRalph]

The Halifax County Fair in my hometown is not run by the county but by a private concern. Same for every other county fair in Virginia that I know about. Counties may issue them a permit and allow them to use the name, but that's as far as it goes. The notion of a county government actually running a fair that lasts for all of one week is crazy.

The Virginia State Fair isn't run by the state but by a private corporation ... that filed for bankruptcy last week.

California may do it differently, but I doubt that every employee of the Sonoma County Fair has their salary posted in some database.

Way OT. My apologies.

No, let me apologize. You are right. It's not in a database somewhere.

It's in a PDF right here:
http://hr.sonoma-county.org/documents/salary_resolution.pdf

and if your interested in more info on the county employees, check here for every single position

http://lgcr.sco.ca.gov/CompensationDetail.aspx?entity=County&id=10994900000&year=2010&GetCsu=False

again..............my apologies............

[chickenhead]

sorry I missed all this. Of course Sonoma County Fair is a county affair.

My county, Sonoma, put in a turf course.

Has your county ever put in a turf course?

Sonoma 1, Everywhere else 0.

Accept it.

[FenceBored]

Well, considering he had to write a letter to keep a job that was already offered to him, it was exemplary.

Look, I get it, it's cool to suck up to the "names" but come on.


Neither one of these letters would ever be held up as an example of professionalism by anyone with a lick of sense.

[foregoforever]

My county, Sonoma, put in a turf course.

Has your county ever put in a turf course?

My county fair had pig races, so we're clearly not in your league. But I can take great pride in that no taxpayer dollars were involved in the course construction. :D

As a resident of Sonoma, do you find it odd that Wrona's letter is published on the web? If you were to apply for a job at the fair, or submit a proposal in response to an RFP, would you expect your application, and the debate on your qualifications, to be aired publicly like this?

[Dahoss9698]

Neither one of these letters would ever be held up as an example of professionalism by anyone with a lick of sense.

My opinion remains the same. Considering the situation Wrona was put in, by a colleague, I thought his letter was well done.

We agree though, Vic's letter was very unprofessional.

[FenceBored]

My opinion remains the same. Considering the situation Wrona was put in, by a colleague, I thought his letter was well done.

Sorry, Wrona was not put into any outrageous situation that demanded he write an unprofessional letter, despite your Stauffer-hate filled imaginings.

[Peter Berry]

Are there any female racetrack annoucers?
Yes. Victoria Shaw.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/a-shaw-thing-at-the-races/story-fn6bn9st-1226179894174

[thaskalos]

Sorry, Wrona was not put into any outrageous situation that demanded he write an unprofessional letter, despite your Stauffer-hate filled imaginings.
In your opinion, FB...what sort of letter should Wrona have submitted in an effort to keep the job that Vic Stauffer was trying to take away from him?

A letter agreeing with Stauffer about his (Stauffer's) qualifications for the job?

[NTamm1215]

In your opinion, FB...what sort of letter should Wrona have submitted in an effort to keep the job that Vic Stauffer was trying to take away from him?

A letter agreeing with Stauffer about his (Stauffer's) qualifications for the job?

Exactly.

[Dahoss9698]

Sorry, Wrona was not put into any outrageous situation that demanded he write an unprofessional letter, despite your Stauffer-hate filled imaginings.

I knew this would happen. Wrona is put into a situation, by a colleague who talks about the announcer brotherhood, in which he has to defend a job that was already given to him, and he's being painted as the bad guy.

It's hilarious.

But I'm genuinely curious, what did you find unprofessional about Wrona's letter?

[Cardus]

People behave as if that "Vic" is short for "Victim". Always, the victim.

[olddaddy]

The more I think about this, it appears Vic really needs the money. I just dont see someone doing this at this juncture (Wrona already given the job) unless you are desperate.

[FenceBored]

In your opinion, FB...what sort of letter should Wrona have submitted in an effort to keep the job that Vic Stauffer was trying to take away from him?

A letter agreeing with Stauffer about his (Stauffer's) qualifications for the job?

No, just keep it simple and positive. The line about how his "hand has been forced" and the bullet points were just petty, especially when he admits he knows it will be made public.

His "hand has been forced" by the employer, not Stauffer. They asked him to write the letter, not Stauffer. It's their decision on who to hire, not Stauffer's.

What if the impetus for the letter being requested hadn't been Stauffer's semi-casual 'aw-shucks, I love you guys' appeal to the Board, but the full Fair Board asking the Racing Committee to present them with three names (and letters) from which to choose, not just one. They would be entirely within their rights to do that. Would Wrona's 'hand being forced' irritation have come out with some pointed remark directed at the Board? The fact that we're debating his actual display of irritability proves that that's not impossible.

Most of the letter is fine and if he'd left out the snarky bullet points it would have been better.

If he wants to take shots out Stauffer, he should post them here like everybody else.

[ElKabong]

whether he was right or wrong for doing it, I bet it'll be a long time before Vic or anyone else writes another letter like this...from the outside looking in, it looks very unprofessional.

This is something that would be looked down upon with a high degree of distaste in the so-called real world. I'm confident (sure, actually) if this happened in my workplace the originator of the letter would be shown the door in exactly 90 days (enough time for HR and past supervisors / managers / directors to dig up whatever was on said employee, put the employee on a PIP, then bust him for the slightest error).

[FenceBored]

I knew this would happen. Wrona is put into a situation, by a colleague who talks about the announcer brotherhood, in which he has to defend a job that was already given to him, and he's being painted as the bad guy.


All they asked Wrona to do was write a letter, not be the test subject for a demonstration of the welt raising properties of the various types of racing crops.

I'm not in Sonoma and I don't know the people involved. But, my guess is that the full board was simply being nice to Stauffer (in recognition of their long association) by asking the Racing Committee to take another look. That is, nobody on the Fair's side thought it would actually come back to the full board with a different recommendation than Wrona and it hasn't. The agenda for tonight's meeting (http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/maragenda.pdf) calls for them to finalize the approval for Wrona.

Maintaining good relations toward someone you've worked with for years and letting them save face is not a bad thing.

[FenceBored]

whether he was right or wrong for doing it, I bet it'll be a long time before Vic or anyone else writes another letter like this...from the outside looking in, it looks very unprofessional.

This is something that would be looked down upon with a high degree of distaste in the so-called real world. I'm confident (sure, actually) if this happened in my workplace the originator of the letter would be shown the door in exactly 90 days (enough time for HR and past supervisors / managers / directors to dig up whatever was on said employee, put the employee on a PIP, then bust him for the slightest error).

Saying you love the Sonoma County Fair is a firing offense in your workplace? Wow, tough crowd.

[Dahoss9698]

All they asked Wrona to do was write a letter, not be the test subject for a demonstration of the welt raising properties of the various types of racing crops.

I'm not in Sonoma and I don't know the people involved. But, my guess is that the full board was simply being nice to Stauffer (in recognition of their long association) by asking the Racing Committee to take another look. That is, nobody on the Fair's side thought it would actually come back to the full board with a different recommendation than Wrona and it hasn't. The agenda for tonight's meeting (http://www.sonomacountyfair.com/docs/maragenda.pdf) calls for them to finalize the approval for Wrona.

Maintaining good relations toward someone you've worked with for years and letting them save face is not a bad thing.

Wow.

[FenceBored]

Wow.

Yeah, I thought the idea of somebody being nice to someone (Stauffer in particular) would shock you.

[Dahoss9698]

Yeah, I thought the idea of somebody being nice to someone (Stauffer in particular) would shock you.

Like I said, you are trying to paint him as a victim here and it's pretty funny.

Stick to songs.

[FenceBored]

Like I said, you are trying to paint him as a victim here and it's pretty funny.

Stick to songs.

What victim? Ain't nobody painting anybody as a victim, or a villian, in our conversation, but you.

I see Stauffer's side and I sympathize.
I see Wrona's side and I sympathize.
I see the Fair Board's side and I sympathize.
Odds are, tomorrow morning we'll be status quo ante, Wrona will be getting a contract in the mail and life will go on. (obladi oblada)

As for songs, how 'bout this fragment from the Police I've crafted for you:
Everything Vic Stauffer does is classless
Everything he do just turn me off
'Specially if I saw he was on fire
I'd stop him from reaching a horse trough
Any chance you'll record yourself singing it and post it on YouTube?

[cj]

What victim? Ain't nobody painting anybody as a victim, or a villian, in our conversation, but you.

I see Stauffer's side and I sympathize.
I see Wrona's side and I sympathize.
I see the Fair Board's side and I sympathize.
Odds are, tomorrow morning we'll be status quo ante, Wrona will be getting a contract in the mail and life will go on. (obladi oblada)

As for songs, how 'bout this fragment from the Police I've crafted for you:Everything Vic Stauffer does is classless
Everything he do just turn me off
'Specially if I saw he was on fire
I'd stop him from reaching a horse trough
Any chance you'll record yourself singing it and post it on YouTube?

Wrona did keep the job.

Just curious, what was Stauffer's side that you see?

[Cardus]

No, just keep it simple and positive. The line about how his "hand has been forced" and the bullet points were just petty, especially when he admits he knows it will be made public.

His "hand has been forced" by the employer, not Stauffer. They asked him to write the letter, not Stauffer. It's their decision on who to hire, not Stauffer's.

What if the impetus for the letter being requested hadn't been Stauffer's semi-casual 'aw-shucks, I love you guys' appeal to the Board, but the full Fair Board asking the Racing Committee to present them with three names (and letters) from which to choose, not just one. They would be entirely within their rights to do that. Would Wrona's 'hand being forced' irritation have come out with some pointed remark directed at the Board? The fact that we're debating his actual display of irritability proves that that's not impossible.

Most of the letter is fine and if he'd left out the snarky bullet points it would have been better.

If he wants to take shots out Stauffer, he should post them here like everybody else.

You might find this hard to believe, but PaceAdvantage -- while entertaining -- is not the center of the Thoroughbred racing world. There are people who haven't heard of this site. Perhaps that concept is anathema to you, but it's true.

So, Wrona owes it to whom, exactly, to post comments here? This is foolish to the point of arrogance.

And, for what it's worth, I suspect that not everyone who takes shots at Victim posts here.

[FenceBored]

Wrona did keep the job.

Just curious, what was Stauffer's side that you see?

He's worked at Sonoma's Fair for most of the past two decades, he likes working the Fair, he wants the chance to do it again.

Not hard to understand, not hard to sympathize with. I think we'd all like to work someplace we enjoy working.

[thaskalos]

He's worked at Sonoma's Fair for most of the past two decades, he likes working the Fair, he wants the chance to do it again.

Not hard to understand, not hard to sympathize with. I think we'd all like to work someplace we enjoy working.
I enjoy your posts, AND your songs, FB...but I have to disagree with you here.

You seem to be forgetting that Wrona was the announcer there the year prior...while Vic was exploring other options.

[FenceBored]

You might find this hard to believe, but PaceAdvantage -- while entertaining -- is not the center of the Thoroughbred racing world. There are people who haven't heard of this site. Perhaps that concept is anathema to you, but it's true.

So, Wrona owes it to whom, exactly, to post comments here? This is foolish to the point of arrogance.

And, for what it's worth, I suspect that not everyone who takes shots at Victim posts here.

Anathema? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

[FenceBored]

I enjoy your posts, AND your songs, FB...but I have to disagree with you here.

You seem to be forgetting that Wrona was the announcer there the year prior...while Vic was exploring other options.

I'm not forgetting that. He missed 2009 and 2010, asked to come back in 2011, was hired and then begged off when assigned to the Fair as a steward (what's up with that budding career, now). In mid-February (5 months before the Fair) he came back and asked again. Seems like a clear case of him liking the place and wanting to work there.

Given the history, it's understandable that they might not be quite as eager to rehire him, but that has nothing to do with what Stauffer wants and why.

Just in case it needs to be said, understanding and sympathizing with what Stauffer wants doesn't mean that I think they should have given him the job.

[Cardus]

Anathema? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

For those who require links, this comes from Merriam-Webster:

"something intensely disliked or loathed"

It is not exclusively used in religious terms or settings.

[ElKabong]

Saying you love the Sonoma County Fair is a firing offense in your workplace? Wow, tough crowd.

That's far from what I said.

Real life example....If I interviewed for an open position in my company and another employee won the position, the last thing I'd do is email or write a letter to a director explaining why I was the best candidate.

That would be professional suicide in all 3 companies I've worked for in 30+ years of employment. The interview was the time for me to convey what I could do in that position. The people I interviewed to would have based their decision on the interviews (and past performance)...

so, the smart thing to do would be me writing a letter to those interviewers stating their decision was an error? Ya, that works great in the real world

Back to the race calling world....

Vic and Michael's work is audible every race day...That's their interview. Their talent is on record every race. If the Fair made their minds on who they thought best, Vic or Michael should clearly understand why the decision to hire one of them was made.

I wish Vic the best. I like his work. I do like Wrona's better, for certain, but Vic is good. The letter tho was odd

[bigmack]

For those who require links, this comes from Merriam-Webster:
"something intensely disliked or loathed"
It is not exclusively used in religious terms or settings.
Look and see if it's a noun. Then ask yourself if you used it as such.

[cj]

Look and see if it's a noun. Then ask yourself if you used it as such.

He used it properly.

[thaskalos]

Greek word, erroneously used in this country.

It means "curse"...and can also be used in a slightly different form (anathematizo) to curse someone or something.

[Cardus]

I am comfortable with how I used the word, and, more importantly, comfortable with the entirety of my response to FenceBored's assertion that Wrona ought to post here if he wishes to "take shots" at Victim. (At least we are debating a useful, thoughtful word with a lengthy history. It beats posting in Ebonics.)

Naturally, the substance of my response was not rebutted.

[PaceAdvantage]

You might find this hard to believe, but PaceAdvantage -- while entertaining -- is not the center of the Thoroughbred racing world. There are people who haven't heard of this site.I suspected you didn't like me...but now I know... :lol:

You'd be surprised who reads this site (but I'm sure you already know all that, so maybe you wouldn't be...)

[Cardus]

I suspected you didn't like me...but now I know... :lol:

You'd be surprised who reads this site (but I'm sure you already know all that, so maybe you wouldn't be...)

This is funny, Mike.

No, I would not be surprised by those who read this site. That doesn't mean that there are people who haven't heard of this site, though.

[PaceAdvantage]

That doesn't mean that there are people who haven't heard of this site, though.No shit? Wow...I've been living such a delusional lie all this time... :lol:

Thanks for setting me straight bud... :ThmbUp:

[Spalding No!]

He's worked at Sonoma's Fair for most of the past two decades, he likes working the Fair, he wants the chance to do it again.

Not hard to understand, not hard to sympathize with. I think we'd all like to work someplace we enjoy working.
It's one thing for a former employee to make it known via letters, phone calls, greeting cards, etc. that he or she enjoyed working in the past for a certain employer. That sort of thing might go a long ways in securing a desired position down the road.

But it's an entirely different thing to try and pull the rug out from someone who has already secured the present position, coax the hiring staff into reconsidering their initial choice, and create a competitive situation that didn't exist. That is low behavior.

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters, whether merely for show or not, as they were stiffed last year by the same person when a better gig came along. That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.

Inconsiderate at the very least, egomaniacal at the worst.

[thaskalos]

It's one thing for a former employee to make it known via letters, phone calls, greeting cards, etc. that he or she enjoyed working in the past for a certain employer. That sort of thing might go a long ways in securing a desired position down the road.

But it's an entirely different thing to try and pull the rug out from someone who has already secured the present position, coax the hiring staff into reconsidering their initial choice, and create a competitive situation that didn't exist. That is low behavior.

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters, whether merely for show or not, as they were stiffed last year by the same person when a better gig came along. That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.

Inconsiderate at the very least, egomaniacal at the worst.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :ThmbUp:

And yet...most of the posters here have expressed the opinon that this sort of behavior is understandable...and even acceptable.

I guess it's a dog-eat-dog world after all...

[Hosshead]

If they had picked Frank Mirahmadi they could have had all three announcers wrapped up in one.

Better yet, lets leave it up to Conan O'brien and Jay Leno.

So if Vic is still a steward, now he's going to DQ horses that Wrona calls a winner by a nose?

And the beat goes on..

[PaceAdvantage]

That gig didn't materialize this year, and again, without respect towards the Fair's deadlines, scheduling, or prior decisions, he figured it was OK to waltz in and make a grab for his old job.Wait...did I miss where it says Vic can't or won't be returning as a steward?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm most surprised by the board's decision to entertain him and even ask for qualification letters...It's probably a good bet, given what you just wrote, that the whole story isn't known at this point.

There is a chance this whole process started much EARLIER than what has been shown to date...do you think the one letter that was published from Vic was the one and only communication he had with racing officials out there?

If the hiring of Wrona was such a done deal, they would have told Vic to take a hike, not submit a letter to the board...

Do you think if you or I submitted a letter to the board (on any topic), it would be published in their record of minutes? Yes, it would be published if they decided to address the issue publicly. But if they didn't want to address the issue publicly, they would have simply tossed the letter in the garbage after writing him a canned "thanks but no thanks" response back...

[BetCrazyGirl]

whether he was right or wrong for doing it, I bet it'll be a long time before Vic or anyone else writes another letter like this...from the outside looking in, it looks very unprofessional.

This is something that would be looked down upon with a high degree of distaste in the so-called real world. I'm confident (sure, actually) if this happened in my workplace the originator of the letter would be shown the door in exactly 90 days (enough time for HR and past supervisors / managers / directors to dig up whatever was on said employee, put the employee on a PIP, then bust him for the slightest error).

Letters like these are not that uncommon and don't always mean the person is sent to the door. If no one was being insulted and only skills highlighted then there is nothing wrong with it, they'll take who they wish to take. Many of times it can be a simple letter that helps get the person's foot in the door. It draws attention where there might not had been any.

[Spalding No!]

It's probably a good bet, given what you just wrote, that the whole story isn't known at this point.
Nothing can be revealed that can negate the fact that "Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee...reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona...".

There is a chance this whole process started much EARLIER than what has been shown to date...do you think the one letter that was published from Vic was the one and only communication he had with racing officials out there?
Who cares? In the January meeting, it was stated that 2 announcers expressed interest in the announcer position at the 2012 Sonoma County Fair. One member moved to hire Michael Wrona. The motion was seconded. Then the motion was passed unanimously.

Wrona earned the position fair and square in January whether or not Stauffer sent in multiple letters.

If the hiring of Wrona was such a done deal, they would have told Vic to take a hike, not submit a letter to the board...
They didn't tell Vic Stauffer to submit a letter. He submitted the letter in person during the Public Comments portion of a subsequent meeting following the decision to hire Michael Wrona.

Do you think if you or I submitted a letter to the board (on any topic), it would be published in their record of minutes? Yes, it would be published if they decided to address the issue publicly. But if they didn't want to address the issue publicly, they would have simply tossed the letter in the garbage after writing him a canned "thanks but no thanks" response back...
Not sure of your point. I already said I was surprised the Committee even gave him the time of day. That's the scariest part of all of this. The Committee itself nearly folded like a cheap suit (unless Fence Bored is right about them paying Stauffer lip service) and retracted its earlier hiring of Wrona.

Also not sure how any of this is supposed to justify Stauffer's actions.

I guess people (including the Committee) think Wrona is the one who dropped the ball. Maybe he should have boarded himself inside the announcer's booth at Santa Rosa with plywood, padlocks, and firearms and declared the cubicle the new country of "Wronatoria". Then he could have denied Stauffer a visa and settled the matter for good.

[PaceAdvantage]

Nothing can be revealed that can negate the fact that "Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee...reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona...".He did? I didn't read that in his letter. Did you?

Who cares? In the January meeting, it was stated that 2 announcers expressed interest in the announcer position at the 2012 Sonoma County Fair. One member moved to hire Michael Wrona. The motion was seconded. Then the motion was passed unanimously.I guess outrage should be expressed at the board then, even more so than Stauffer...

They didn't tell Vic Stauffer to submit a letter. He submitted the letter in person during the Public Comments portion of a subsequent meeting following the decision to hire Michael Wrona.How do you know an official did not suggest he send in a letter?

Also not sure how any of this is supposed to justify Stauffer's actions. Don't you think you're taking this a little too far? Almost as if you have a personal interest in this whole shindig. "Justify Stauffer's actions...." You act as if he killed a small animal.

I guess people (including the Committee) think Wrona is the one who dropped the ball.I've never intimated anything of the sort.

[Spalding No!]

He did? I didn't read that in his letter. Did you?
Yeah, the court reporter just made it up. Vic remained silent at the microphone when he was allowed 3 minutes to address the Committee.

I guess outrage should be expressed at the board then, even more so than Stauffer...
Now you're getting it.

How do you know an official did not suggest he send in a letter?
After they made a unanimous decision? What's the odds that Stauffer was the second announcer they already considered back in January?

You're grasping at straws.

Don't you think you're taking this a little too far?
In what way? What was the point of this thread if it wasn't to decide whether or not Vic Stauffer acted improperly at the February meeting?

Almost as if you have a personal interest in this whole shindig.
Whatever. You're playing the game you so loathe in other posters. Skewing the discussion towards some baseless accusation that I have a personal agenda to fulfill.

My earlier post today was meant to be an objective comment. I tried to reduce the matter to its basic elements to get away from the cloudiness caused by Stauffer's polarizing affect on this board.

You pressed me on specifics, so I gave them to you.

"Justify Stauffer's actions...." You act as if he killed a small animal.
You're right. He only tried to usurp another person's livelihood.

No big deal.

I've never intimated anything of the sort.
Wasn't meant for you specifically.

[chickenhead]

talking out of my azz here, like everyone else...

Being that there was apparently a somewhat complicated history with Vic and the Sonoma County Fair (Vics letter mentioned throwing someone under the bus, previously, if I recall), if there was ever any private intimation that choosing an announcer would A.) Directly affect handle, via TVG, or B.) Could be done at a substantially lower rate...both things Vic intimated publicly in his letter..

Being that the Fair is a quasi public agency, I would expect them to wish very much for this to be handled publicly, if only for protection. Not from Vic, but just in general. Better to publicly find such things baseless or without substance, ahead of time, than to later be accused of hiding it in private, for some sort of vindictive reason.

Sunshine is good disenfectant, being a possible line of thinking.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, the court reporter just made it up. Vic remained silent at the microphone when he was allowed 3 minutes to address the Committee.Did I miss the link to this doozy? No, seriously...I want to read about this...

Whatever. You're playing the game you so loathe in other posters. Skewing the discussion towards some baseless accusation that I have a personal agenda to fulfill.Never said you did...only said you're acting like you do...

For the record, I don't think you have a personal agenda, which makes it all the more curious to me...

My earlier post today was meant to be an objective comment. I tried to reduce the matter to its basic elements to get away from the cloudiness caused by Stauffer's polarizing affect on this board.Why do you think this is exactly? At least prior to THIS incident...

You're right. He only tried to usurp another person's livelihood.There you go again...being all dramatic...

The fact remains that the board is the one that calls the shots...and the facts clearly dictate that Wrona wasn't on any type of solid ground, for if he was, that letter of Stauffer's would have never made it into the minutes and there never would have been a reconsideration of their initial recommendation.

For the record, I have no beef with you, and have always appreciated your contributions to the board.

You should know by now that I am a contrarian by nature and like to play devil's advocate whenever the opportunity affords itself...

[FenceBored]

For those who require links, this comes from Merriam-Webster:

"something intensely disliked or loathed"

It is not exclusively used in religious terms or settings.

A link is something that actually like ... links (http://www.anathema.ws/). Just a hint.

[FenceBored]

I am comfortable with how I used the word, and, more importantly, comfortable with the entirety of my response to FenceBored's assertion that Wrona ought to post here if he wishes to "take shots" at Victim. (At least we are debating a useful, thoughtful word with a lengthy history. It beats posting in Ebonics.)

Naturally, the substance of my response was not rebutted.

Um, the substance of your response was asinine. Look at the quote I'm using as a .sig right now:"The main place I go to is PaceAdvantage.com, cause they have a bunch of subjects and you can see what knowledgable people, ah, writing in and what their opinions are on the subjects of the day."
-- 'Bettor Bob' on the Roger Stein Show - Mar 10, 2012 (http://www.rogerstein.com/archives/120310.wma) ~45:30
Now, if I actually held the position which you try to attribute to me "Bettor" Bob's comment would not have caught my attention, nor would I have gone to the trouble of transcribing it for my .sig. If I thought everyone reads PA then any particular person saying they read PA is unremarkable. Thus, the foundation of your carefully contructed cardhouse of condecension crumbles and there's no need to pay any further attention to your foolishness.

The line about Wrona coming here to take shots at Stauffer? "That's a joke, son. ... You're built too low, the fast ones go over your head."

KTwnwbG9YLE

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

[FenceBored]

Wait...did I miss where it says Vic can't or won't be returning as a steward?

Stauffer's letter says:In 2011 I was named and still serve as a California State Steward.
When this thread started I went to see if they'd announced steward assignments for the Fair circuit yet. They hadn't, and it still doesn't look like they have (http://www.chrb.ca.gov/Stewards/2012_steward_assignment.pdf).

[Peter Berry]

New season of The Office kicked off last night: Art imitating life?

[Spalding No!]

Did I miss the link to this doozy? No, seriously...I want to read about this...
I'm not sure what you inferred from the section "Public Comments" that stated "Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona..." but I figured it meant that Vic Stauffer asked that the Committee give him the opportunity to be the Announcer and to reconsider their decision to hire Michael Wrona.

Why do you think this is exactly? At least prior to THIS incident...
There have been several of these incidents in the past couple of years that have toed the line of good taste, right-and-wrong, and simple human decency. As he has a strong fan club on here, and most of his hijinks have been "borderline" in nature, it's no surprise that the members of this board have stratified into "for" or "against" Vic Stauffer.

This Sonoma situation though, in my opinion, is the most clear cut instance where he is in the wrong.

There you go again...being all dramatic...
Stauffer tried to supplant another person out of a job. This is exactly what happened.

In what fashion can it be sugarcoated to make it less severe than it sounds?

The fact remains that the board is the one that calls the shots...and the facts clearly dictate that Wrona wasn't on any type of solid ground, for if he was, that letter of Stauffer's would have never made it into the minutes and there never would have been a reconsideration of their initial recommendation.
I understand this possibility, but the decision to hire Wrona in January was unanimous. He should have been on "solid ground". The logical conclusion is that Stauffer's appearance/letter at the February meeting swayed the Committee. Yet that doesn't somehow mean Stuaffer acted responsibly. The end doesn't justify the means.

All it means is that the Committee is weak willed. Maybe they prefer to have Stauffer as their announcer, but couldn't get around their previous decision without losing credibility.

We'll see in 2013.

[foregoforever]

In what fashion can it be sugarcoated to make it less severe than it sounds?

Only one way in my mind ... if Defendant Stauffer was justified in feeling that Sonoma's selection process, prior to and including the January board meeting, did not afford him an ample opportunity to express his interest in the job and to explain his actions in the preceding few years. That's precisely what his letter did. It did not mention or disparage Wrona in any way.

On the other hand, if he had reasonable opportunities and was rejected in January, then he is guilty as charged ... and rather dumb. The vote was unanimous in January. What could he have hoped to gain at the February meeting, in front of the same board, if the board already had all the information?

So what was Sonoma's process? There are formal RFPs on their site for all sorts of contract services for the racing meet. I don't see one for track announcer. The January minutes give no indication of the process, only saying that one member indicated that there were two interested parties. I don't see any minutes from earlier meetings.

Here's where it gets into guesswork. Perhaps Sonoma's process was rather informal. Vic had the job for many years. I doubt that they required a written application and resumé each year or sought other candidates. It may well have been a simple phone call: "Available? Yep. Interested? Yep. Done."

If it was informal, that might explain the Board's requesting the materials for the later meeting. They may have realized that their process was lacking, and asking all candidates for similar submissions was the way to put in on sounder footing. May have been some lawyerly influences.

I suspect they had no intention of changing their original decision. Both Wrona and Stauffer are well known to them. It's hard to imagine that anything on a written application would have changed their mind. But they can now say that each applicant was given an equal chance to state their case, and that the Board made their decision with that material in hand.

I enjoy Vic's work as an announcer, but I've seen how his job-hopping has caused problems. They are his own doing, so he must deal with that. I would hardly class myself as "pro-Vic". But I'm not prepared to pass judgement based on a few lines in meeting minutes without knowing what went on prior to the January meeting.

I do suspect that Sonoma's process for filling the job will be a bit more formal next year.

[ElKabong]

I'm sure both Mike and Vic have a great sense of humor. TVG could benefit from this episode & the racecallers could too.....How about Mike handing Vic a bumper sticker with Wrona's smilin' face to the right of the quote "Who's Your Daddy?" on the bumper sticker....They exchange pleasantries in front of the camera, then back to racing @ Yonkers or somesuch

It'd sure spice up the boring night lineup that's for sure

[Zydeco]

I'm sure both Mike and Vic have a great sense of humor. TVG could benefit from this episode & the racecallers could too.....How about Mike handing Vic a bumper sticker with Wrona's smilin' face to the right of the quote "Who's Your Daddy?" on the bumper sticker....They exchange pleasantries in front of the camera, then back to racing @ Yonkers or somesuch

It'd sure spice up the boring night lineup that's for sure

but wouldn't that yonkers race be on tape?? :lol:

[Robert Fischer]

Speaking of Etiquette

runs back Saturday in an optional claimer...

[Cardus]

Um, the substance of your response was asinine. Look at the quote I'm using as a .sig right now:"The main place I go to is PaceAdvantage.com, cause they have a bunch of subjects and you can see what knowledgable people, ah, writing in and what their opinions are on the subjects of the day."

-- 'Bettor Bob' on the Roger Stein Show - Mar 10, 2012 (http://www.rogerstein.com/archives/120310.wma) ~45:30

Now, if I actually held the position which you try to attribute to me "Bettor" Bob's comment would not have caught my attention, nor would I have gone to the trouble of transcribing it for my .sig. If I thought everyone reads PA then any particular person saying they read PA is unremarkable. Thus, the foundation of your carefully contructed cardhouse of condecension crumbles and there's no need to pay any further attention to your foolishness.


The line about Wrona coming here to take shots at Stauffer? "That's a joke, son. ... You're built too low, the fast ones go over your head."

KTwnwbG9YLE

Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Oy vey.

Which means... oy vey.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Can I get the Grunder/Bullwinkle video about now for yet another cheap laugh?

[Robert Fischer]

Can I get the Grunder/Bullwinkle video about now for yet another cheap laugh?

no comic relief allowed buddy

[BeatTheChalk]

The are too damn many Blokes announcing things, events, races, car
races, auctions, golf you name it. Anything that will help with the
elimination of blokedom .. is fine with me.

[FenceBored]

Oy vey.

Which means... oy vey.

Yep, only in Internetland could someone post something as silly as you did.

[BeatTheChalk]

If the Tsuris that exists - reagards my posting - is the worst thing that
happens...I say Zine Gazint. :cool:

[bigmack]

Can I get the Grunder/Bullwinkle video about now for yet another cheap laugh?
Back, by popoolur deemand.

Okq5Vvnv1VQ

[mountainman]

Both guys could plead from bloody knees, but I'd still give the gig to the man with more game. That's all that should matter. And, in my opinion, it's Stauffer. No disrespect to Wrona, who's a terrific caller in his own right.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Back, by popoolur deemand.

...

Damn that makes me cackle every time. Which means seven times already in the last ten minutes.

[goatchaser]

Aw heck, I'm going to send them a letter and offer to do the announcing in Pig Latin....

Onay Uckingfay ayway

[racingfan378]

Well lets just say that Vic isnt and GP anyone. That must be for a reason b/c Vic finds a way to botch every race that he calls, he isnt smooth at all and if anyone watches the youtube clip of him calling a race he uses special goggles to help him see when the horses are coming down the stretch.

Michael got canned at LS, that must be due to the fact he wanted too much $, and when that did happen, Tony Calo from FL lost his job b/c Mike went crawling back to GG & BM

It's all who you know and what ass you kiss in the announcing game to get the job. Over half the guys suck nowadays or try to sound like Durkin. Yes I am speaking about the guy at LAD or they have a big ego thinking they walk on water.

Vic left the job, so that's his fault, too bad they found someone else who doesnt botch a race call or needs two pairs of glasses to see the horses run down the stretch.

[castaway01]

Both guys could plead from bloody knees, but I'd still give the gig to the man with more game. That's all that should matter. And, in my opinion, it's Stauffer. No disrespect to Wrona, who's a terrific caller in his own right.

So if Jerry Bailey or Randy Moss showed up at Mountaineer today and said, "I'm tired of ESPN and just want to do in-house race previews for a small track in West Virginia," since they are national broadcasters and therefore have more "game", you'd say, "No problem" and step aside?

[mountainman]

So if Jerry Bailey or Randy Moss showed up at Mountaineer today and said, "I'm tired of ESPN and just want to do in-house race previews for a small track in West Virginia," since they are national broadcasters and therefore have more "game", you'd say, "No problem" and step aside?

The Sonoma fair could FIT in some of the holes in your analogy. The two situations would be totally different-on several levels.

And I refuse to pass judgement on the ethics of others. As far as I'm concerned, both callers are honorable men trying hard to pound out a living- and a pair of leaked letters doesn't change that. Who amongst us hasn't written or typed something that would damage our reps if made public? Dude, I'd get yanked from the show and tossed in JAIL if some of my correspondences came to light. (and I suppose, then, that Jerry Bailey could HAVE it)

Nor does it matter to me that both men knew going in that their letters might be made public. Just because somebody bares his soul (or fangs) doesn't require me to gawk in that direction. In fact, I haven't even READ the letters. I don't take pleasure in the misery of others, and I don't pass moral judgement. Period.

ps-How much does Randy Moss weigh? Do you think I could whip him?

[Cardus]

If you do not pass moral judgment, how can you conclude that both men are honorable?

That reads like a moral judgment to me.

I love the "I don't pass moral judgment" line. Usually, it is used when someone is trying to demonstrate their intellectual, or even moral, superiority.

It's so faux.

[mountainman]

If you do not pass moral judgment, how can you conclude that both men are honorable?

That reads like a moral judgment to me.

I love the "I don't pass moral judgment" line. Usually, it is used when someone is trying to demonstrate their intellectual, or even moral, superiority.

It's so faux.
The term "passing moral judgement" of itself implies that the judgement is negative. And I just don't do that to two guys competing for an announcer's gig. I mean, who did they murder? And as far as moral superiority, you don't know me, or my heart, history, and personal demons. So let's just leave it at that. ok?

[BeatTheChalk]

Yep, only in Internetland could someone post something as silly as you did.

I will say it .. anywhere you want it to be said. There are way too many
BLOKES doing too many TV shows. :eek: