Tongue Strap

[bob60566]

Why is this not added to Equipment on or off.Is it not as important as blinkers.

Mac:confused:

[HUSKER55]

IF MEMORY SERVES, I believe tongue staps are on all horses so they can breath better during a race.

[bob60566]

IF MEMORY SERVES, I believe tongue staps are on all horses so they can breath better during a race.

If that is true can someone confirm that they all have the strap on when racing.

Mac:)

[lamboguy]

i think you guys mean a tongue tie, which not every horse needs. there is also another alternative to a tongue tie called a figure 8 ring bit that also keeps the horse from swallowing his tongue. swallowing a tongue and displacing of the pallet are 2 different things that give the same breathing problems.

[bob60566]

So the horses that need it is it public knowledge when it is applied.

Mac:confused:

[lamboguy]

unless you can see the horse up close you won't know if the horse is wearing a tongue tie. i have never heard it announced or in a program or racing form like blinkers, lassix, or different shoeing.

there is another thing that is announced in kentucky and maybe other jurisdictions that supposedly help with breathing problems called a CORNELL COLLAR. those things are very tricky and can be very problematic on a horse if the trainer doesn't know what he is doing with them, which is very often the case. they are also banned in most places.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...they are also banned in most places.

Legal raceday equipment in: Arizona, Kentucky, Illinois, Ohio, Oklahoma, Michigan, Minnesota, at Calder Race Course (Florida), in Calgary (Canada), in Australia and in Hong Kong.

[bob60566]

unless you can see the horse up close you won't know if the horse is wearing a tongue tie. i have never heard it announced or in a program or racing form like blinkers, lassix, or different shoeing.

there is another thing that is announced in kentucky and maybe other jurisdictions that supposedly help with breathing problems called a CORNELL COLLAR. those things are very tricky and can be very problematic on a horse if the trainer doesn't know what he is doing with them, which is very often the case. they are also banned in most places.

That is my point who has the edge/ why blinkers posted and not Tongue tie to many times I have watched the winning horse get tie removed prior to going to the winners circle, Now maybe the whole field had them applied???

Mac:confused:

[Brogan]

That is my point who has the edge/ why blinkers posted and not Tongue tie to many times I have watched the winning horse get tie removed prior to going to the winners circle, Now maybe the whole field had them applied???

Mac:confused:
Its my impression that tongue ties are used quite a bit more today than they were years ago.

[johnhannibalsmith]

That is my point who has the edge/ why blinkers posted and not Tongue tie to many times I have watched the winning horse get tie removed prior to going to the winners circle, Now maybe the whole field had them applied???

Mac:confused:

This is a long standing debate. For what its worth, its not very common for horses to wear tongue ties intermittently throughout their career. It's usually one of those things that they either wear or don't. Moreover, the fact that they have one in the paddock doesn't always mean that they will compete with one. They occasionally get chewed off, fall off, or even are taken off if they are fighting it during the post parade. There is a whole new element of how to deal with (Disqualify?) a horse that competes without his tongue tie for whatever reason if it is considered equipment a la blinkers.

My opinion is that you have to view a tongue tie as part of training. One of the things that happens out of the public eye that influences some element of the outcome. I happen to think too many horses run in tongue ties, others think that every horse should use one. I bet and I've put them on, taken them off, and use 'the physical horse' as a major factor in my actual betting - and while I spend a lot of time evaluating appearance/attitude from start to start, I pay no attention to tongue tie unless it seems like it is bothering the horse in the paddock or post parade.

[bob60566]

So what if your horse runs well with a tie and you get the horse ready without it and without it and with it in preparation races/workouts when you feel he is ready to give his best you apply the tie.

Mac:confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

So what if your horse runs well with a tie and you get the horse ready without it and without it and with it in preparation races/workouts when you feel he is ready to give his best you apply the tie.

Mac:confused:

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question, but speaking only for myself, if I have a horse that is competing well with it, he's going to run with it every trip - even if there isn't a specific veterinary reason for its use. For someone like me, most of the horses I acquire over time come via claim or private purchase and you note what the horse has competed in throughout his career. If he goes in a tongue tie, you tend to keep running him in a tongue tie.

I've had a few that I thought paid too much attention to the tongue tie. So, I've breezed them without and if there didn't seem to be any reason to continue using it, I've left it off for the next start. I can point to one such example where I had a gelding off the claim that was sharper from the gate when not playing with the tongue tie while waiting in the gate. But that sort of scenario would be a rarity in my opinion.

If a horse really NEEDS a tongue tie, you probably figure that out early on in the morning and start training with it and use it all the time. I think it is fairly safe to say that many more horses run with tongue ties than actually need them and it's pretty rare that you will see some huge bomb light up the tote as a "first time tongue tie" and have that be the defining factor in a major form reversal.

[magwell]

A surwin works just as good as a tongue tie and horses dont fight it where as a tongue tie can be put on to tight and cut into the horses tongue or come loose if not put on properly.Both keep a horse from getting their tongue over the bit which then can cut off their air .

[jasperson]

Why is this not added to Equipment on or off.Is it not as important as blinkers.

Mac:confused:
It is my opinion that a tongue tie is used mostly to prevent the horse from getting it tongue over the bit. This causes a loss of control for the jockey. During a race the horse mainly breaths through it nose not thru the mouth.

[Robert Goren]

That still doesn't answer the question on why the bettor isn't informed when they are used? That information may or may not be useful, but that should be up to the bettor to decide.

[Tom]

Take your pick:

1. No one cares about the bettors
2. No one is smart enough to figure out how to report it
3. No one wants that information given out
4. It's rocket science.

[turninforhome10]

That is my point who has the edge/ why blinkers posted and not Tongue tie to many times I have watched the winning horse get tie removed prior to going to the winners circle, Now maybe the whole field had them applied???

Mac:confused:
Tounge ties are not considered equipment by the stewards in the same sense as blinkers. Whereas blinkers are only legal after the starter has watched the horse at the gate with them. Horses have to be approved for blinkers not ounge ties. Tounge ties serve 2 purposes IMHO keep a horse from getting their tounge over the bit and reducing stress on the soft palate to keep the airflow smooth. Look for tounge tie to be added when a horse stops for for no reason or has a bad finish. Had a horse one time that made a game of getting his tounge over the bit he was determined to win. A Shurr win bit also works and that was the final cure for him as he won 3 in a row. A Shurr Winn or also called a Serena's Song is an addition to the bit the has the rubber piece coming down over the nose and splitting into the bit.
Changing the bit setup can be a big factor to move a horse up. But don't look for the powers that be to change their reporting on anything. Best you can do is take paddock notes. I hit a horse last week that was changing from a d bit to a ring bit and he no longer was drifting in the turns and ran a game 2nd at 17-1. It can pay big to know your equipment and is the best kept secret on the racetrack.

[bob60566]

Tounge ties are not considered equipment by the stewards in the same sense as blinkers. Whereas blinkers are only legal after the starter has watched the horse at the gate with them. Horses have to be approved for blinkers not ounge ties. Tounge ties serve 2 purposes IMHO keep a horse from getting their tounge over the bit and reducing stress on the soft palate to keep the airflow smooth. Look for tounge tie to be added when a horse stops for for no reason or has a bad finish. Had a horse one time that made a game of getting his tounge over the bit he was determined to win. A Shurr win bit also works and that was the final cure for him as he won 3 in a row. A Shurr Winn or also called a Serena's Song is an addition to the bit the has the rubber piece coming down over the nose and splitting into the bit.
Changing the bit setup can be a big factor to move a horse up. But don't look for the powers that be to change their reporting on anything. Best you can do is take paddock notes. I hit a horse last week that was changing from a d bit to a ring bit and he no longer was drifting in the turns and ran a game 2nd at 17-1. It can pay big to know your equipment and is the best kept secret on the racetrack.

Thanks for the excellent information had hint it was out there, Maybe Jeff Mullins was right after all.

Mac:ThmbUp: