Beyer talks Trakus

[cj]

http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-trakuss-great-data-should-be-available-all-handicappers

[thaskalos]

You can yell at them until you are blue in the face Andy...and it won't make any difference, because nobody in a position of power is listening.

[JustRalph]

Typical. They have superior data but don't make it available except to 'industry professionals' and the stuff that is available has significant errors

Is anything ever done right in this sport?

I would like to know who makes up the industry professionals list?

Just one more group with an edge

[cj]

The ONE positive I did take from the article is that Trakus is being used to determine beaten lengths at the sectional calls.

[bigmack]

Trakus’s chief operating officer, said the methodology was originally intended for use in sports such as hockey and football.
Hockey & football?

What kind of info can they glean from Trakus in hockey, you ask?

Fans this year can find out how fast a player is skating and how hard a player is hit in real time http://www.trakus.com/press-pdf/masshightech_beanpot.pdf
I can see where that would be hepful. :rolleyes:

[Horseplayersbet.com]

It would be great to see Trackus become universal, and beaten lengths can be converted to objective ACTUAL times instead of subjective information.

[camourous]

Trakus data is great, but remember if you see a horse who ran 65 feet further than the winner did last time, there is no guarentee that horse will not be given a similar trip next out.

[Robert Fischer]

Trakus data is great, but remember if you see a horse who ran 65 feet further than the winner did last time, there is no guarentee that horse will not be given a similar trip next out.

This is true.

Extra Distance run(ground loss) is also a factor where the value of ground loss is NOT a constant.

If you want to compare two horses from the same race who ran pretty much the same race type, and they were in similar positions and made similar moves - then by all means consider ground loss.

However differences in running style during the race in question will distort the value of ground loss in comparisons so much that without the ability to understand and apply the dynamics and race shape to an individual horse's ground loss, the factor actually becomes worthless and even harmful.

[BIG49010]

Typical. They have superior data but don't make it available except to 'industry professionals' and the stuff that is available has significant errors

Is anything ever done right in this sport?

I would like to know who makes up the industry professionals list?

Just one more group with an edge

You can view the data on all track web sites, so this isn't exactly true.

[cj]

You can view the data on all track web sites, so this isn't exactly true.

You can view SOME of the data, not ALL the data.

[Tom]

And you can't view it easily and you can't download any of it and actually use it.

Ralph, if someone gave racing the goosed that laid the golden eggs, they would have a barbeque and then bitch about the lack of golden eggs.

[tokyo2002]

I created an Excel macro to go out and get the Trakus data, but the formatting of their website made it very challenging to parse through the data. If the data is out there and available at no charge, why can these companies not provide it in an XML format for easy download and use?

[guckers]

I created an Excel macro to go out and get the Trakus data, but the formatting of their website made it very challenging to parse through the data. If the data is out there and available at no charge, why can these companies not provide it in an XML format for easy download and use?

Tokyo,

I am quite experienced in difficult parsing situations. PM me if you want some help.

[Tom]

Keeneland used to offer a db of the Trakus data that was downloadable for free. Guess they reviewed it and thought it made sense so they dropped it.:rolleyes:

The fact that they are having problems with GP 1 mile races tells me the methodology is suspect, and the fact that they knowingly post flawed data tells me The Trakus Company is also suspect

[pondman]

You can view the data on all track web sites, so this isn't exactly true.

If you are a speed freak and like that type of data, trakus has a mountain of data collected, but the public is getting very little of it. You could be at a major disadvantage, if a few players get it and you don't.

For me, most of the speed/time data is of little importance.... However, I do like the idea of being able to watch my horse during a race. As long as they get the numbers in the correct order, it's okay with me.

[Fastracehorse]

This is true.

Extra Distance run(ground loss) is also a factor where the value of ground loss is NOT a constant.

If you want to compare two horses from the same race who ran pretty much the same race type, and they were in similar positions and made similar moves - then by all means consider ground loss.

However differences in running style during the race in question will distort the value of ground loss in comparisons so much that without the ability to understand and apply the dynamics and race shape to an individual horse's ground loss, the factor actually becomes worthless and even harmful.

for example; many trainers like to fire their charges from outside posts

and even though many of these lose ground stalking; they outrun their foes who run less ground many times

the 2 reasons for me that this occurs are that: 1.) most horses hate being pressed - better to be the presser that loses lengths 2.) many horses don't run well being covered up - better to lose lengths being outside of horses than lose momentum or interest

having said the above i enjoy betting horses who lost alot of ground from any post - i just enjoy the inside ( flat ) to outside ( live ) game

fffastt

[BIG49010]

You can view SOME of the data, not ALL the data.

What do you think is missing between the track data provided and the Trakus site?

[098poi]

I interviewed to work at their facility in Mass a few years ago. It was shift work monitoring races at the tracks that were running. I needed a full time job and this was part time so I didn't do it.

When you think about how crucial accurate data is for the handicapper it is amazing the industry is only recently catching up with the rest of the world. When you think that horses can run a mile at different paces and hit an exact point, the finish line, and be noses apart it makes sense you need accurate reliable data. The notion that Trakus exists and yet does not make their data available to the public seems odd. I checked the Gulfstream site and am impressed with what is available. Check this link and you can watch simulated Jockey, Side and Aerial views. The Aerial view looks like it would be very helpful for those who use replays as part of their handicapping.
http://tnetwork.trakus.com/dsi2007/Gulfstream.aspx?EventID=35227&Type=TBRED&VenueID=20&DefaultPage=Finish

[Robert Fischer]

for example; many trainers like to fire their charges from outside posts

and even though many of these lose ground stalking; they outrun their foes who run less ground many times

the 2 reasons for me that this occurs are that: 1.) most horses hate being pressed - better to be the presser that loses lengths 2.) many horses don't run well being covered up - better to lose lengths being outside of horses than lose momentum or interest

having said the above i enjoy betting horses who lost alot of ground from any post - i just enjoy the inside ( flat ) to outside ( live ) game

fffastt

Well an outside post can range from an average post at times, to a do-or-die situation! Some of these tracks = if you can't tuck in or make the lead from out wide, it REALLY costs the horse.

Lets say your horse "FFFastt" breaks from post #13 goes 5 wide into the first turn and presses the pace in 2nd the rest of the way...
Lets also go ahead and say my horse "BobsPlodder" and others make a final-turn run as the speed is collapsing. These Slow Horses go 5-wide on the 2ND TURN.

Trakus ranks them as equal ground loss. However FFFASTT went wide and lost ground into the teeth of a fast early pace(and apparently gamely held on)! The Plodders came up last closing together as a group after the race collapsed.

The value of groundloss for these two examples is not equal in spite of the Delta Feet data being equal.

[Fastracehorse]

Well an outside post can range from an average post at times, to a do-or-die situation! Some of these tracks = if you can't tuck in or make the lead from out wide, it REALLY costs the horse.

Lets say your horse "FFFastt" breaks from post #13 goes 5 wide into the first turn and presses the pace in 2nd the rest of the way...
Lets also go ahead and say my horse "BobsPlodder" and others make a final-turn run as the speed is collapsing. These Slow Horses go 5-wide on the 2ND TURN.

Trakus ranks them as equal ground loss. However FFFASTT went wide and lost ground into the teeth of a fast early pace(and apparently gamely held on)! The Plodders came up last closing together as a group after the race collapsed.

The value of groundloss for these two examples is not equal in spite of the Delta Feet data being equal.

is the value of a closer over-inflated because the presser duelled into the teeth of the pace??

fffastt

[Robert Fischer]

is the value of a closer over-inflated because the presser duelled into the teeth of the pace??

fffastt

Sure. If we are talking about a race where multiple horses were closing late to make up ground. The presser can be upgraded, and there is a fair chance to downgrade the closer.

The opposite kind of thing is true when the speed goes 1-2 all the way around and nobody closes. These are harder to see, but a good tip-off is when a horse or two that is a known quitter, who hasn't taken a ton of money somehow doesn't tire and contends for the win.

With both examples of race types above, I look for maidens or horses facing winners for the first time. With this crowd if there is a "downgrade" (like the plodder from the first example who got up for 2nd or whatever), they are often OVER-Bet by the public.

[classhandicapper]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about Trakus (other than more accurate beaten lengths at the pace calls). Handicappers that are interested in ground loss being incorporated into their figures have been able to purchase that from either Thorograph or Ragozin for decades. Both do a great job.

The arguments against ground loss remain the same (Beyer has even made them at times).

1. Some horses run better on the outside than inside.

2. There are sometimes path biases that make the outside paths equal or even better than the inside paths

3. There are sometimes path biases that are not uniform around the track

4. Losing ground while the pace is very slow has a much different impact than losing ground when it's moderate or fast.

5. The banking of turns in dirt racing may mitigate some of the disadvantage of ground loss

6. The impact of losing ground on sweeping turns like Belmont is probably different than losing ground on a 1m track with sharp turns

Everyone has their own style and beliefs on this issue, but IMO you have watch all the races develop on a particular day (and the race in question) and look at fractions and quality of competition to try to understand how a track was playing so you can understand a horse's performance.

I'm not sure given all the complexities that knowing a horse ran an extra 20 feet or 30 feet is going to give you much, if any, edge. IMO you have to get the big picture right.

To be clear, I'm not anti Trackus. I just think there's a better chance that some handicappers will find edges based on other people worshiping the ground loss information than using it because TG and Sheets players already have it and already bet heavily.

[cj]

What do you think is missing between the track data provided and the Trakus site?

How about timing including the run up, for one. There is a lot not given to the public yet.

[cj]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about Trakus (other than more accurate beaten lengths at the pace calls). Handicappers that are interested in ground loss being incorporated into their figures have been able to purchase that from either Thorograph or Ragozin for decades. Both do a great job.

Lets not act like your average weekend handicapper is shelling out tons of money for PPs. Hell, I'm interested in ground loss, but I'm not THAT interested.

[classhandicapper]

Lets not act like your average weekend handicapper is shelling out tons of money for PPs. Hell, I'm interested in ground loss, but I'm not THAT interested.

I agree with that. I occasionally purchase Ragozin, but only if my betting volume is likely to be very high or I have a high intellectual curiosity about their numbers (BC day, Derby, BC prep days etc..)

I just envision a scenario where a lot of people are going to stop watching races altogether because they are going to use Trakus ground loss info as a short cut and others are going to use it and it's going to lead them astray.

Take the Donn yesterday. I'm way more interested in whether the inside paths were a little off than whether some of the horses that lost ground lost 25 or 35, or 45 feet.

[BIG49010]

[QUOTE=cj]How about timing including the run up, for one. There is a lot not given to the public yet.[/QUOTE

I don't think that it is recorded anywhere, it's not being withheld from the public.

As time goes by and people request that info, or when Trakus believes that it is important, perhaps they will include it in the reports that are on-line.

[cj]

[QUOTE=cj]How about timing including the run up, for one. There is a lot not given to the public yet.[/QUOTE

I don't think that it is recorded anywhere, it's not being withheld from the public.

As time goes by and people request that info, or when Trakus believes that it is important, perhaps they will include it in the reports that are on-line.

It is, that is why I posted it. I have seen everything that is available.

[Fastracehorse]

Sure. If we are talking about a race where multiple horses were closing late to make up ground. The presser can be upgraded, and there is a fair chance to downgrade the closer.

The opposite kind of thing is true when the speed goes 1-2 all the way around and nobody closes. These are harder to see, but a good tip-off is when a horse or two that is a known quitter, who hasn't taken a ton of money somehow doesn't tire and contends for the win.

With both examples of race types above, I look for maidens or horses facing winners for the first time. With this crowd if there is a "downgrade" (like the plodder from the first example who got up for 2nd or whatever), they are often OVER-Bet by the public.

i know Robert - i luv betting recent Maidens breakers against winners for the first time too - especially in Florida - for one thing, like you alluded to, the class jump isn't that ominous

also, i like maidens that rise in class in the maiden ranks in California - they outrun their odds

back to closers, i've believe that it's dangerous to underrate a closer - actually, any move during any point of the race should be respected - the front runner still has to rate if he wants to hold off it's foes - but you already said that

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

Lets not act like your average weekend handicapper is shelling out tons of money for PPs. Hell, I'm interested in ground loss, but I'm not THAT interested.

Personally, ground lost is one of my bigger weapons

i know u hav your own measurements, and u will probably agree, but 1-wide on a turn is not insignificant ground lost

fffastt

[Robert Fischer]

whether the inside paths were a little off

In general pace and dynamics of a race has much more affect on what part of the track horses will run.

[cj]

Personally, ground lost is one of my bigger weapons

i know u hav your own measurements, and u will probably agree, but 1-wide on a turn is not insignificant ground lost

fffastt

Are you playing Mad Libs or something while posting? Where did 1-wide originate?

[pondman]

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about Trakus (other than more accurate beaten lengths at the pace calls).

In the future there doesn't need to be a call. Any short surge should be able to be observed, anytime during a race. This could be very important. If a jockey asks a horse, and it responds, but doesn't follow through it may indicate a problem, even if it's for only 50 yards. For example, many horses run straight well. But for whatever reason the horse doesn't run the turns well and is running in a bull ring, such as Pamona, you'll know it, with precise ft/sec measures on the turns. This will give you an advantage. Trakus has the ability to break out splits at any distance during the race. I think the public should be able to do this.

I'm personally a class handicapper, but if I were a speed handicapper, I'd be alarmed by Trakus.

[classhandicapper]

In general pace and dynamics of a race has much more affect on what part of the track horses will run.

I hear what you are saying.

For after the fact evaluation I am just way more interested in path biases than ground loss. IMO some biases are so strong they can be the difference between winning in a jog or being up the track (for some horses).

The thing about these inside/outside biases is that most people think in terms of the RAIL. But sometimes it's 2-3 paths that are bad/good, a single path off the rail that's good, a gradual thing where the rail is death, but the 2-3 path is not ideal either. I feel like I have to get that stuff right when it's fairly extreme because if I do, ground loss becomes almost irrelevant.

[Robert Fischer]

I hear what you are saying.

For after the fact evaluation I am just way more interested in path biases than ground loss. IMO some biases are so strong they can be the difference between winning in a jog or being up the track (for some horses).

The thing about these inside/outside biases is that most people think in terms of the RAIL. But sometimes it's 2-3 paths that are bad/good, a single path off the rail that's good, a gradual thing where the rail is death, but the 2-3 path is not ideal either. I feel like I have to get that stuff right when it's fairly extreme because if I do, ground loss becomes almost irrelevant.

I'm not going to say path biases don't exist.
They clearly do, and better players than me have exploited path bias for years. You seem to have a good handle of path bias.

For me personally, I have found that the pace of the race has made more difference than ground loss or path bias. I've also found that pace has often explained an apparent case of ground loss or path bias.

Let's assume that that each path is equal, except on the turns where it is better to save ground.

In a speed favoring pace(where the speed is either dominant or allowed to rate slowly on the lead...) = the Speed will tend to win from an inside "path" and the winners will tend to have the least ground loss. In these cases the pace was superordinate to path and ground loss.

In a collapsing pace(where the closers are all dominant or the front-runners go so fast that many tire)= The closers will tend to win running wide late(unless the rail opens but can be ignored for now) with the late runners having to come wide on the turn for home. These closers will have the widest paths and the most ground loss. Again in this case the collapsing pace will be superordinate to the path and ground loss.

Taking a 2nd look at the closer scenario = any horse that lucks out and gets the rail to open, will obviously have an advantage over the same type of closers going 5-wide. However it isn't more of an advantage than regular ground saving. It isn't a true path bias.
Add that closing races and "fair" paces may offer the biggest chances for a horse to save ground in comparison to rivals (where in a speed favoring race the leaders will be 1 or 2 wide at most on the lead).

So if you have some speed favoring races you may think there is a rail bias, when it was a speed bias. Several speed favoring races, and maybe a closer race where the rail opens (think street sense at churchill), and all of a sudden bloggers are talking about a golden rail.

Same with a closer bias, a casual observer will note the outside horse is winning all the duels...

Not saying there aren't concrete examples of path bias, but sharing some of my perspective.:ThmbUp:

[classhandicapper]

I'm not going to say path biases don't exist.
They clearly do, and better players than me have exploited path bias for years. You seem to have a good handle of path bias.

For me personally, I have found that the pace of the race has made more difference than ground loss or path bias. I've also found that pace has often explained an apparent case of ground loss or path bias.

Let's assume that that each path is equal, except on the turns where it is better to save ground.

In a speed favoring pace(where the speed is either dominant or allowed to rate slowly on the lead...) = the Speed will tend to win from an inside "path" and the winners will tend to have the least ground loss. In these cases the pace was superordinate to path and ground loss.

In a collapsing pace(where the closers are all dominant or the front-runners go so fast that many tire)= The closers will tend to win running wide late(unless the rail opens but can be ignored for now) with the late runners having to come wide on the turn for home. These closers will have the widest paths and the most ground loss. Again in this case the collapsing pace will be superordinate to the path and ground loss.

Taking a 2nd look at the closer scenario = any horse that lucks out and gets the rail to open, will obviously have an advantage over the same type of closers going 5-wide. However it isn't more of an advantage than regular ground saving. It isn't a true path bias.
Add that closing races and "fair" paces may offer the biggest chances for a horse to save ground in comparison to rivals (where in a speed favoring race the leaders will be 1 or 2 wide at most on the lead).

So if you have some speed favoring races you may think there is a rail bias, when it was a speed bias. Several speed favoring races, and maybe a closer race where the rail opens (think street sense at churchill), and all of a sudden bloggers are talking about a golden rail.

Same with a closer bias, a casual observer will note the outside horse is winning all the duels...

Not saying there aren't concrete examples of path bias, but sharing some of my perspective.:ThmbUp:

I agree with everything you are saying. Pace is also part of my analysis.

IMO that's part of what makes path bias analysis both very difficult and potentially valuable. Determining if there was a bias is dependent on evaluating the horses and trips properly.

If I have reason to think some long shot horse is a lot better than it looks on paper and it goes wire to wire on the rail, someone that doesn't know what I know might start wondering if there was a bias.

On some days there are only a handful of dirt races, there are a lot of FTS, very inconsistent horses etc.. It's tough. So if you do it well, you have an advantage.

Andy Serling is as good a handicapper as there is, but I don't always agree with him on biases. He forms his opinions based on his own views of the horses going in and their trips. Sometime I have insights he doesn't have and vice versa.

[cj]

Ground loss is nice to have. However, I think most will agree that sometimes it is a big factor, other times it isn't. Also, all ground loss is not the same. Rallying wide on the second turn into a race that is falling apart isn't a big deal. Dueling four wide on a hot pace on the first turn of a route is huge.

Personally, I think the best part of Trakus is the ability to give us precise times for all horses at ALL points of call. This is way better than someone watching through binoculars and making an educated guess. Like ground loss, there are times these clockings will have big value, and times they won't, but at least it will be accurate.

Things like path biases are subjective, as is measuring the effect of pace and ground loss. The timing of horses at several points in the race, however, should not be.

[Valuist]

My take on biases:

A neutral track is really a 2 path track.

A track where the 3 path is the best spot is a slight outside track

A track where the 4 paths and out are optimal is a decided outside bias track.

I also believe bias is a bigger factor in sprints than routes. And likewise, in routes, pace trumps bias. Horses are running harder and hitting the ground at a more severe rate in sprints. Sprints are run around only one turn so ground loss isn't as big of a factor. A horse setting a soft pace in a route can overcome not being on the best part of the track.

[Fastracehorse]

Are you playing Mad Libs or something while posting? Where did 1-wide originate?

meant 2-wide :blush:

fffastt

[mountainman]

The thing about these inside/outside biases is that most people think in terms of the RAIL. But sometimes it's 2-3 paths that are bad/good, a single path off the rail that's good, a gradual thing where the rail is death, but the 2-3 path is not ideal either.

Soooooooooooo true. But usually irrelevant at a track like mnr where jocks avoid the rail at all costs. I've even stated (just HALF jokingly) that pro-rail means pro 4-path at mnr. Still, it's important to distinguish between a surface that's merely dead down close to the rail, and one that favors the widest runners.

[speed]

Looking at Woodbine today race 9 the 1 horse's last race replay it's obvious he loses by 4 1/2 or 5 lengths and the pp's show beaten by 3. Checking trakus data they have him beaten 5 lengths. Amazing how inaccurate the data thoroughbred racing supplies really is. I watch more replays daily than most and it is shocking how often and dramatic the errors are. Chart callers have i believe 20 minutes or so after the race to get the info reported. Would think they would be given the time to review the races and ensure a higher level of accuracy. The mistakes get worse the farther back through the field one looks.

[Tom]

If they have Trakus there, what possible reason is there for NOT using it???

God, it this were NYRA......

[BillW]

If they have Trakus there, what possible reason is there for NOT using it???

God, it this were NYRA......

Or a photo finish camera :-)

[cj]

Looking at Woodbine today race 9 the 1 horse's last race replay it's obvious he loses by 4 1/2 or 5 lengths and the pp's show beaten by 3. Checking trakus data they have him beaten 5 lengths. Amazing how inaccurate the data thoroughbred racing supplies really is. I watch more replays daily than most and it is shocking how often and dramatic the errors are. Chart callers have i believe 20 minutes or so after the race to get the info reported. Would think they would be given the time to review the races and ensure a higher level of accuracy. The mistakes get worse the farther back through the field one looks.

Most complaints come in the form of pace calls, not the finish. That is supposed to be accurate. I wonder if it was just a transcribing error. I find these with times now and then, so it makes sense it happens with lengths too.

[speed]

Most complaints come in the form of pace calls, not the finish. That is supposed to be accurate. I wonder if it was just a transcribing error. I find these with times now and then, so it makes sense it happens with lengths too.
Most times you would be correct. This time though they have the show horse a nose ahead of the 4th horse when he was over 2 lengths clear. Yes pace calls are generally the issues. Amazing the degree of errors in pace calls. Some tracks are consistently good while others, well, lets leave it at that.

[speculus]

......
http://tnetwork.trakus.com/dsi2007/Gulfstream.aspx?EventID=35227&Type=TBRED&VenueID=20&DefaultPage=Finish ........

Thanks for the link 098poi.

I just wish to make one simple point.

If TRAKUS claims the timings are accurate, then the beaten lengths are wrong.

If they say the beaten lengths are accurate, then the times are wrong.

Either way, TRAKUS looks like a complete sham.

Don't take it as Gospel, you will regret it.

[iceknight]

Typical. They have superior data but don't make it available except to 'industry professionals' and the stuff that is available has significant errors

Is anything ever done right in this sport?

I would like to know who makes up the industry professionals list?

Just one more group with an edge
"Since they say it is available for "industry professionals", why can't hundreds of handicappers get together and form a "cooperative" and just buy the data for anyone who contributes a small annual membership fee.

ie HANA could be one of those coops, and they coudl charge an annual fee of $ 10 or something to maintain website with a login for the users? this is if Trakus does not want to start it themselves.."
This was also posted as a comment by me on the DRF page (http://www.drf.com/news/beyer-trakuss-great-data-should-be-available-all-handicappers)

or how about a bunch of us here form together a cooperative and try to see how much it would cost to get Trakus to allow so many downloads/hits on their page to view the data and the videos.


Also @cj post 24 (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1232878&postcount=24) Lets not act like your average weekend handicapper is shelling out tons of money for PPs. Hell, I'm interested in ground loss, but I'm not THAT interested. Well I am paying 15-17% on every dollar that I am betting (and sometimes it goes up to 22%).. that is a way higher commission that the $7 I pay at Scottrade for 2-3 trades a month. (15% of $200 = $30) and I think I am betting the lowest monthly amount among many people. And Scottrade provides tons of data (not analysis), data and charts and real time data for free and level II can be had if you pay $10 a month (I don't).

[BillW]

Most times you would be correct. This time though they have the show horse a nose ahead of the 4th horse when he was over 2 lengths clear. Yes pace calls are generally the issues. Amazing the degree of errors in pace calls. Some tracks are consistently good while others, well, lets leave it at that.

The pace calls are usually eyeballed hence the error. The finish can be determined by the camera down to the pixel resolution. I guess the chart callers aren't obligated to use the camera but it surely is more accurate then the eye.

[casey]

Trakus is only available if a track decides to purchase it. Since most tracks have no regard for the betting public only Kee, Wodbine and GP use it. How any one can make an argument about having precise times for each horse in a race is beyond me.How a person interpolates and uses the info is another story.

[cj]

The pace calls are usually eyeballed hence the error. The finish can be determined by the camera down to the pixel resolution. I guess the chart callers aren't obligated to use the camera but it surely is more accurate then the eye.

I don't even think they have the option not to use the photo finish camera. Since the finish is just taking time and using a (flawed) formula to determine beaten lengths, how would I chart caller even attempt to do this.

Something isn't right here.

[peislander]

I don't even think they have the option not to use the photo finish camera. Since the finish is just taking time and using a (flawed) formula to determine beaten lengths, how would I chart caller even attempt to do this.

Something isn't right here.


As a chart caller for a small harness track, you have the option to use your eyeball at the finish, but I have never done it unless for a malfunction.

I have never had a chance you view a chart caller for Equibase, but it would be disappointing with the volume of money being wagered if races were not double or triple checked.

I can tell you that I review every race to check for accuracy and I have to have the chart completed in about 12 minutes.

If there are any questions about chart making, I can try to answer, albeit it will be from a half mile harness track chart maker.

I can say one think that I have never understood, how can a length be a 1/5 of a second for both a thoroughbred and a standardbred.

[chickenhead]

I have an account at Trakus for the behind the wall data. It does have the data for:

distance off the rail and time for the runup and then for each individual 1/16th.

but it's not available via download, you have to iterate through each point of call and look at the data. I'm not gonna scrape it, but I am going to ask them what can be done with it. It's all there.