Eli and Coughlin

[pandy]

Couple of things that this SB win ensures, Coughlin gets a contract extension and Eli reserved his spot in Canton, Ohio.

[cj]

Wouldn't be surprised if Coughlin rides off into the sunset. He is probably Canton bound as well.

[Robert Goren]

One surest things going is if the Giants lose two in roll next year, C J will be calling for Coughlin to fired.

[cj]

One surest things going is if the Giants lose two in roll next year, C J will be calling for Coughlin to fired.
No, he is set for life with me.

[elysiantraveller]

Coughlin in unassailable at this point. Funny that earlier in the year when asked who I would rather have Reid or Coughlin I answered Reid hands down... :lol:

I was really wrong about that one!

[Ocala Mike]

Yeah, that was the battle of the "not even close" remarks. I remember it well.


Ocala Mike

[Valuist]

I certainly have much more respect for Eli than before and he's at least toward, or near, the upper echelon. But he is not a lock for the Hall of Fame. If he retired today, his resume would be too short. Is Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer? He has as many Super Bowl wins and more Super Bowl appearances.......and they both came into the league in the same season.

[cj]

I certainly have much more respect for Eli than before and he's at least toward, or near, the upper echelon. But he is not a lock for the Hall of Fame. If he retired today, his resume would be too short. Is Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer? He has as many Super Bowl wins and more Super Bowl appearances.......and they both came into the league in the same season.

I think both of them are already locks.

[Valuist]

I think both of them are already locks.

Eli needs to play a few more years. He may very well end up there. But it would help to get a regular season MVP trophy as well. I guess I'm the exception but I don't believe a Super Bowl win is all about the QB. Certainly played a big role today but his receivers helped him out as well. The QB always gets too much credit and too much blame.

[pandy]

I agree that QB's get too much credit and too much blame. But Eli did have an MVP type of season this year setting a record for 4th quarter TDs and in half of the Giants wins this year they came from behind to win in the 4th quarter. That's great quarterbacking.

I'm a Jets fan too and the main difference between the Jets and the Giants is that the Giants have a great quarterback and the Jets have won of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL.

[jognlope]

I can't find answer and am too short on time: Why did Bradshaw try to stop short of goal line after catching ball, before he lost his balance and fell over, scoring touchdown? I don't know football, was just curious why....

[elysiantraveller]

The route the Giants had this year is incredible. They destroyed a good Falcon team at home, then travelled to GB where they crushed the Packers, the 31-17 final was much closer than the actual game. Then go across country to beat the niners at home.

QB's sometimes get too much credit but Manning's numbers are incredible. 106/163 (65%) for 1219 yards 9 touchdowns to 1 interception, and a rating of 107.4.

[rastajenk]

To take some more time off the clock while still in position for a near-certain game winning field goal. It would have forced NE to use a time out on defense, giving them one less to use on the drive after the ensuing kickoff.

Of course, if the near-certain field goal were to be blocked or screwed up somehow, then the sit-down at the one would have been second-guessed from here to eternity, but it's still sound strategy.

[elysiantraveller]

I can't find answer and am too short on time: Why did Bradshaw try to stop short of goal line after catching ball, before he lost his balance and fell over, scoring touchdown? I don't know football, was just curious why....

To try and take another 40 seconds off the clock, kick a field goal to go up 18-17 and only give Tom Brady about 20 seconds to get into field goal range.

[jognlope]

Okay, thanks.

[badcompany]

I can't find answer and am too short on time: Why did Bradshaw try to stop short of goal line after catching ball, before he lost his balance and fell over, scoring touchdown? I don't know football, was just curious why....

It was about time management.

Had they not scored the Touchdown, they could've run the clock down to 20 seconds, and kicked a field goal. Barring a miracle the Patriots wouldn't have had enough time to score again.

By scoring the TD, they left the Patriots with close to a minute to score a TD. Under those conditions it was hard to score, but not impossible.

However, the strategy of not scoring the TD could've backfired if the field goal wasn't successful.

[PhantomOnTour]

Couple of things that this SB win ensures, Coughlin gets a contract extension and Eli reserved his spot in Canton, Ohio.
Most two time Super Bowl winning QB's are in the HOF or will be:

Starr
Bradshaw
Staubach
Montana
Aikman
Elway
Brady
Big Ben ???
Eli ???

Are Griese and Plunkett in the HOF?

[rastajenk]

Griese is; Plunkie isn't.

[Valuist]

I agree that QB's get too much credit and too much blame. But Eli did have an MVP type of season this year setting a record for 4th quarter TDs and in half of the Giants wins this year they came from behind to win in the 4th quarter. That's great quarterbacking.

I'm a Jets fan too and the main difference between the Jets and the Giants is that the Giants have a great quarterback and the Jets have won of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL.

Eli had a very good year but by no means did he have a better season than either Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees. The voting is done before the post-season is concluded, and based on the regular season, his numbers just weren't in the same league as the other two.

[cj]

However, the strategy of not scoring the TD could've backfired if the field goal wasn't successful.

This is exactly right.

My best guess is that a field goal from that distance in the NFL is converted at about 99% of the time. Also, there wouldn't have been 20 seconds left, just a couple at most. I'd give the Pats maybe 1% to score after a made field goal and that is being generous.

By killing the clock and kicking the field goal, the Giants were as close to a cinch for the win as you are going to get.

Now, look at how it played out. What was the percentage the Patriots could get a TD with a minute left, one timeout, and about to receive a kickoff? I'd say 15 or 20% tops, but either way, it is a lot more than the about 1% chance they had of winning in the other scenario.

[badcompany]

This is exactly right.

My best guess is that a field goal from that distance in the NFL is converted at about 99% of the time. Also, there wouldn't have been 20 seconds left, just a couple at most. I'd give the Pats maybe 1% to score after a made field goal and that is being generous.

By killing the clock and kicking the field goal, the Giants were as close to a cinch for the win as you are going to get.

Now, look at how it played out. What was the percentage the Patriots could get a TD with a minute left, one timeout, and about to receive a kickoff? I'd say 15 or 20% tops, but either way, it is a lot more than the about 1% chance they had of winning in the other scenario.

It's hard to argue that the probability of winning the game was greater by playing for the field goal, but, I still didn't hate the strategy of scoring a TD for one reason: pressure.

There's kicking a short field, then there's kicking a short field to win the Super Bowl.

Look at what happened two weeks ago, a chip shot field goal that missed by a mile.

[cj]

It's hard to argue that the probability of winning the game was greater by playing for the field goal, but, I still didn't hate the strategy of scoring a TD for one reason: pressure.

There's kicking a short field, then there's kicking a short field to win the Super Bowl.

Look at what happened two weeks ago, a chip shot field goal that missed by a mile.

I get it, but Tynes has always been clutch. I certainly can't argue with the result, but it is interesting to talk about. The Ravens kick was a 30 yarder, a little more maybe, not an extra point. That probably changes the 99+ percentage to around low 90s, but I'm just guessing now.

[Valuist]

Lets face it, if any of us are in Bradshaw's shoes, are we gonna take a knee at the one? Of course not. He just scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Nobody can ever take that away from him. If the defense can't hold the opposition from a TD w/less than a minute to play, you don't deserve to win.

[Valuist]

I thought Eli had a good game. Not a great game but a good game. There would've been several other candidates for MVP:

Nicks 10 catches for 109 yards including numerous first downs
Blackburn- interception and 6 tackles
Bradshaw 72 rush yards, game winning TD and 19 receiving yards
Manningham 5 for 73 but several HUGE catches in the 2nd half including 38 yarder which was key play in game.
Tuck- 2 sacks

[cj]

I thought Eli had a good game. Not a great game but a good game. There would've been several other candidates for MVP:

Nicks 10 catches for 109 yards including numerous first downs
Blackburn- interception and 6 tackles
Bradshaw 72 rush yards, game winning TD and 19 receiving yards
Manningham 5 for 73 but several HUGE catches in the 2nd half including 38 yarder which was key play in game.
Tuck- 2 sacks

I also didn't think he was a lock for MVP. I probably would have went with Nicks. I agree with the others but not Bradshaw. He doesn't get any credit for that TD!

[cj]

Lets face it, if any of us are in Bradshaw's shoes, are we gonna take a knee at the one? Of course not. He just scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Nobody can ever take that away from him. If the defense can't hold the opposition from a TD w/less than a minute to play, you don't deserve to win.

That is easy to say, but the coach should have just been kneeling down, not running the ball. Everybody knew the Pats would let them score, he has done it before.

You really can't argue with the math I put up. No way is this comparable to Cundiff. It was shorter, extra point distance, and it was indoors. Maybe the specific numbers are a few percent off, but there is no way killing the clock and kicking doesn't give the best chance to win, and it isn't close.

[pandy]

Lets face it, if any of us are in Bradshaw's shoes, are we gonna take a knee at the one? Of course not. He just scored the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Nobody can ever take that away from him. If the defense can't hold the opposition from a TD w/less than a minute to play, you don't deserve to win.

I totally agree. I was relieved when they scored, there are all sorts of ways to blow a field goal, bad snap, blocked kick, kicker chokes under pressure...

And besides, with the way kickers can kick nowadays, if you have a chance to get a lead that's bigger than 3 points you have to take it.

[cj]

I totally agree. I was relieved when they scored, there are all sorts of ways to blow a field goal, bad snap, blocked kick, kicker chokes under pressure...

And besides, with the way kickers can kick nowadays, if you have a chance to get a lead that's bigger than 3 points you have to take it.

Any lead was fine because it would have ended the game. There would have been no time left. For all these supposed ways there are to blow a FG, I would guess the conversion rate for PAT length and shorter field goals in the NFL is 99% or higher. There is no way that giving the ball back to NE with a minute left is the better play statistically no matter how you guys try to spin it.

[Valuist]

I also heard that Eli said not to score WHILE HANDING THE BALL OFF to Bradshaw. Next time, Eli, do it in the huddle. Not while the guy is in the middle of running the ball.

I agree Coughlin should've knelt down. But IF you are going to call a running play, you can't hold it against Bradshaw for trying. He's probably been running the ball since grade school; probably had dreams of scoring the winning TD in the Super Bowl.

[cj]

I also heard that Eli said not to score WHILE HANDING THE BALL OFF to Bradshaw. Next time, Eli, do it in the huddle. Not while the guy is in the middle of running the ball.

I agree Coughlin should've knelt down. But IF you are going to call a running play, you can't hold it against Bradshaw for trying. He's probably been running the ball since grade school; probably had dreams of scoring the winning TD in the Super Bowl.

I've said they should have knelt down all along, never blamed Bradshaw.

[BetHorses!]

If you are going to let a team score, then u should just have a spot in ur head, lets say inside the 15 yd line and let them do it once there immediately, no sense to let more time get away, that was NE's mistake imo. I think they should have done it two plays earlier. Perhaps on the 2nd and 3 from the 11...

I would never kneel on offense, too many things can go wrong on a kick and I thought the Giants kicker was a little shaky sunday too. besides a FG only puts you up 1, a TD forces the Pats to score a TD to win. Score the TD and make them go the length of field to become Champs.

[pandy]

You know come to think of it the Giants kicker did hit the uprights on one kick and had another that was precariously close to the upright on the left side, good point. I agree, and kicking a field goal to win the Super Bowl is not as easy as it is in a regular season game, the pressure on the everyone involved, holder, kicker, center, is tremendous.

[slew101]

I think you mean Tynes' first FG, which I also thought hit the upright. But when they showed the replay from close right before the commercial, it didn't. I'd have to see it again, but I think it was an illusion from the way the ball was spinning.

You know come to think of it the Giants kicker did hit the uprights on one kick and had another that was precariously close to the upright on the left side, good point. I agree, and kicking a field goal to win the Super Bowl is not as easy as it is in a regular season game, the pressure on the everyone involved, holder, kicker, center, is tremendous.

[pandy]

Wow, I thought it hit the goal post. Bottom line, he did look a little shaky and making a field goal to win the Super Bowl is a lot of pressure.

[slew101]

If anyone has the game recorded, they can check. Right after the kick, they showed a replay as they went to commercial.

Needless to say, I deleted the game the second the hail mary pass went incomplete.

Wow, I thought it hit the goal post. Bottom line, he did look a little shaky and making a field goal to win the Super Bowl is a lot of pressure.

[GaryG]

kicking a field goal to win the Super Bowl is not as easy as it is in a regular season game, the pressure on the everyone involved, holder, kicker, center, is tremendous.This is just what I was thinking.....miss one of those and you are Scott (wide right) Norwood. Taking a knee at that point would have been just asking for it.

[slew101]

Auburn had the same scenario in the title game last year, and took the knees, then kicked the FG from 18 yards out as time expired. That game was tied at the time. With a college kicker, I'd be a little more hesitant. In the pros, not at all.

The extra point kick length is about 99 percent to succeed in the NFL, according to their stats.

Cundiff's kick, although short, was still 32 yards. The percentage on that one is likely around 85 to 90 percent in the NFL. Those kicks are missed more than people think.

This is just what I was thinking.....miss one of those and you are Scott (wide right) Norwood. Taking a knee at that point would have been just asking for it.

[BetHorses!]

That game was tied at the time.


big difference

[Valuist]

Hub Arkush of Pro Football Weekly said it was Tuck's pressure that led to the safety. Tuck also sacked Brady twice, one time which appeared to bother Brady as his accuracy fell off considerably after that. That was a big turning point. Tuck probably was the deserving MVP.

[NJ Stinks]

I would have voted for Mario Manningham. Besides The Catch there were the two after it on that winning drive. All told the first 56 yards gained on the winning drive were on catches made by Mario.

If you believe Brady and Manning negated each other performance-wise - and I do - the outcome of the game was determined by Manningham IMO.

Hey, if you hit the game winning homer in the 9th inning, there is a big chance that you go home with the All-Star MVP trophy.