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Jay Trotter
01-29-2012, 01:44 PM
http://paceandcap.com/images/pnc_hdr_right.png (http://www.sartinmethodology.com/)
http://paceandcap.com/images/PACS_2012_MD.png (http://forumdisplay.php?f=70)

***

CONTEST SCHEDULES

We have received a fair amount of feedback
from Players, Teams and Sponsors
regarding the make-up and posting of the Weekly Schedules

As we strive to give our participants
the best possible handicapping experience
we have received the message loud and clear
and will be acting upon the input to make improvements

An annoucement will be made later this week
to clarify the direction we intend to take

Thanks

If you wish to make further comment
Now is the time -- Please post in this thread

***

JETSWIN
01-29-2012, 02:06 PM
i'd rather see a full card (one track) each week, makes it more a test of skill & fair to all

andtheyreoff
01-29-2012, 02:27 PM
I would just like to know what the formula is for making the schedule each week. I mean, we've seen a starter allowance race from Parx, a $5,000 claimer at Tampa, a 5 1/2 furlong maiden special weight at Fair Grounds, and two cancelled races from Aqueduct, one of which was a $15,000 maiden claimer. Not to mention all the confusion on week 3.

I mean, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but what's the rhyme and reason behind what you guys do?

mrhorseplayer
01-29-2012, 02:27 PM
I would rather see the schedule come out on Friday, like most contest do, I mean who needs all this time to capp a few races and Tampa does not come out till late.

mrhorseplayer
01-29-2012, 02:32 PM
I would just like to know what the formula is for making the schedule each week. I mean, we've seen a starter allowance race from Parx, a $5,000 claimer at Tampa, a 5 1/2 furlong maiden special weight at Fair Grounds, and two cancelled races from Aqueduct, one of which was a $15,000 maiden claimer. Not to mention all the confusion on week 3.

I mean, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but what's the rhyme and reason behind what you guys do?


suppose to be a field of 10 so this knocks out a lot of races, has to have free pp's at youbets place so this knocks out a lot, then take your pick as they need to all be ran within a few hours of event 1 then it has to be on fast tracks or on turf, no slop or off tracks

PaceAdvantage
01-29-2012, 02:34 PM
I would rather see the schedule come out on Friday, like most contest do, I mean who needs all this time to capp a few races and Tampa does not come out till late.We're leaning toward releasing it a few hours later...like perhaps by 10pm on Thursday.

I realize the Tampa races aren't up until Friday most of the time on WhoBet's site, but they ARE available Thursday if you know where to look.

If we post any contest races that are NOT up on WhoBet's site by the time we post the schedule, but ARE available, we will post links to those races, so you'll at least be able to get to them until they are up on WhoBet.

PaceAdvantage
01-29-2012, 02:36 PM
I would just like to know what the formula is for making the schedule each week. I mean, we've seen a starter allowance race from Parx, a $5,000 claimer at Tampa, a 5 1/2 furlong maiden special weight at Fair Grounds, and two cancelled races from Aqueduct, one of which was a $15,000 maiden claimer. Not to mention all the confusion on week 3.

I mean, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but what's the rhyme and reason behind what you guys do?There are few rules this year. I believe the guidelines we are working under is that Free PPs are available, and there are at least 10 betting interests in the race, although if there is a nice competitive stakes race with only 8 or 9 runners, we'll probably use that even though they don't have 10.

I think wide open, competitive events are what we're looking for when it comes to the schedule...and Free PPs....

Plus we also like to schedule a "card" that only lasts about 4 hours, with no super wide gaps in between races.

tiger rose
01-29-2012, 02:47 PM
It's been my learning from running contests,especially free ones.
Someone will always complain,no matter what you do it will never end. :rolleyes:

Jay Trotter
01-29-2012, 03:04 PM
From my point of view....

I'll just clarify where I was coming from with regard to the schedule.

Last year it was our intention to focus on the Derby Prep Races as the base structure of the race schedule. That didn't work out so well because of the generally smaller fields. Guys wanted larger fields, so I took that off the table as a mandatory prerequisite. Contest 4, the RDSS Sartin/Bradshaw Memorial 'Road to the Roses' event will have a focus on the Derby Prep races.

Next, a prerequisite is to have Free Brisnet PPs available for each contest card. We did a poll last year and a fair number of players indicated they wouldn't participate without the Free PPs. A major goal is keep the contests accessible for the "everyday" handicapper so they don't need to purchase PPs to participate. That won't change in the middle of the season but we can address it once again at the end of the current season. This pretty much rules out using a card from one specific race track.

Third, we want to keep the contest within a 3 to 4 hour window so that players can follow live and scorers have a reasonable time frame to do their thing. Nobody wants to spend an entire day at the computer.

Finally, we want large fields (10+); varied surfaces; relatively fair distribution of tracks and competitive wagering events.

We didn't specifically state these parameters because last year we were held under a microscope when we went outside the lines.

We run these contests as a benefit to our valued members with the intention of giving the players contests they eagerly want to participate in, as well as ones Sponsors wish to support. What would be the point otherwise. So, we are listing and will adjust until we get it right.

Thanks

bks
01-29-2012, 03:11 PM
This contest is run very, very well, especially considering it is free. I quite enjoy being made to sift through crap races I would otherwise avoid; it's a handicapping contest, after all.

I would think carefully before dramatically changing anything.

Full disclosure: My team is mid-pack in the standings.

Midnight Cruiser
01-29-2012, 03:53 PM
It's been my learning from running contests,especially free ones.
Someone will always complain,no matter what you do it will never end. :rolleyes:

this above post sums it up pretty well. Thanks for runnin the contest and whatever races you use, you use-I dont understand why someone would complain when you consider the entry fee...

highrider
01-29-2012, 03:54 PM
I think a diversity of hard to handicap races is what a contest should be.
If it was easy I for one would lose all interest.
Thank You for all of your attention of the most interesting free tournament's anywhere. The rules are perfect..Why change a thing.
It's FUN and FREE..Where can you find that..Look Around!
Great Job Bear/Track Collector & everyone Involved!
Highrider. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Turfway Ed
01-29-2012, 04:45 PM
I'm a casual player. I love the challenge of sorting through pp's to arrive with a winner. The present contest is great. I look forward to it every week and usually watch race by race on TwinSpires and follow Bear's/Chris' scoring--- a great way to spend a Saturday.

If the races were pulled from one card, I'd buy a pp. I would not play, if I had to buy multiple cards.

I am a paper and pencil handicapper. I print out the pp's and go from there.

I don't know why the contest races need to be announced no earlier than 10 PM on Thursday. Earlier would be better for me. The communication with one's teammates is the problem--- who's taking what race (we divide the card 3-3-2).

Don't let the criticisms get to you. All appreciate the contest and your roles in providing it. Tweaking is possible, but no major changes please.

PaceAdvantage
01-29-2012, 05:12 PM
I don't know why the contest races need to be announced no earlier than 10 PM on Thursday.It's difficult to know what races are going to have Free PPs available, for starters. Some tracks, like Tampa, are very hard to find even late on Thursday night.

I would prefer to get a nice, balanced, CORRECT schedule posted then have to rush and meet some sort of deadline.

I would think 36+ hours is plenty of advance time, don't you?

Turfway Ed
01-29-2012, 05:31 PM
I guess that I don't.

Of course, thirty-six hours is plenty of time to handicap, but to learn the contest card "no earlier than 10 PM on Thursday," means that I can't start telephoning my partners to divvy up the card when it's already after 10 PM . Communication is difficult when it's a "team" contest.

I usually don't learn my assignment until 5 PM on Friday when their workday is done and they are home.

Just saying that I'd value more time. I feel squeezed and "in a perfect world," I'd have more notice.

Tom
01-29-2012, 05:47 PM
I would think 36+ hours is plenty of advance time, don't you?

Not if you have a job.
10 pm Thursday means nothing gets done Thursday night.
Friday night, ditto - I have a life.

Now Saturday is my fist shot at it, and that means cutting out my capping of races I plan to really bet on.

Even if we only have 203 races identified early Thursday night, that is a huge jump on things.

gm10
01-29-2012, 06:32 PM
http://paceandcap.com/images/pnc_hdr_right.png (http://www.sartinmethodology.com/)
http://paceandcap.com/images/PACS_2012_MD.png (http://forumdisplay.php?f=70)

***

CONTEST SCHEDULES

We have received a fair amount of feedback
from Players, Teams and Sponsors
regarding the make-up and posting of the Weekly Schedules

As we strive to give our participants
the best possible handicapping experience
we have received the message loud and clear
and will be acting upon the input to make improvements

An annoucement will be made later this week
to clarify the direction we intend to take

Thanks

If you wish to make further comment
Now is the time -- Please post in this thread

***



Whichever changes you feel you need to make, I'm sure they will be well-reasoned and fair, but I just wanted to give the thumbs up for this year's edition. Lots of diversity, and lots of big fields. Excellent.

pat5336
01-29-2012, 09:16 PM
I also think thursday night is late if there are no PP's out for a track then there are alot of other tracks that run on saturday to find 8 races with PP's.

Dahoss9698
01-29-2012, 10:41 PM
It's difficult to know what races are going to have Free PPs available, for starters. Some tracks, like Tampa, are very hard to find even late on Thursday night.

I would prefer to get a nice, balanced, CORRECT schedule posted then have to rush and meet some sort of deadline.

I would think 36+ hours is plenty of advance time, don't you?

Count me in on the balanced and correct side. 36 hours is plenty of time to handicap 8 races.

dansan
01-29-2012, 11:15 PM
you have two team mates split up races cant be that hard

thaskalos
01-29-2012, 11:28 PM
Not if you have a job.
10 pm Thursday means nothing gets done Thursday night.
Friday night, ditto - I have a life.


You have a life outside of the racetrack?

How can you expect to compete with us then, when you are operating under such a severe handicap?

iwearpurple
01-30-2012, 12:34 AM
My 2 cents worth.

I am perfectly happy with the contest as it is currently being run. With 43 teams (129 players) it is an impossiblity to make everyone happy.

If you didn't like the contest as it was set up in the rules, which were established long before play started, why in the hell are you playing it it. I can't recall anybody coming to my house, putting a gun to my head and forcing me to play.

That being said, I would make one minor tweak. As has been explained earlier, it takes a lot of effort to set up the races to be played, to fit established guidelines. I feel that whoever has been tasked to select these races is being nudged by some players to select races earlier than they would like. I would prefer that they spend an hour or so longer to get a better selection, times correct etc. We have had some confusion in the past weeks over this. I don't think that an hour or two longer to get the selections out would make that much of a difference.

Full Disclosure. My team is barely out of the basement, so more time to handicap wouldn't make a bit of difference to us. We are enjoying the contest, and the price is right.

Tom
01-30-2012, 10:39 AM
You have a life outside of the racetrack?

How can you expect to compete with us then, when you are operating under such a severe handicap?

Someone has to do it!

LAP_520
01-30-2012, 11:13 AM
This is getting picking for a FREE CONTEST.

To date I personally have not looked at any of the PPs for the tracks in the weekly contest.

All I am interested in is what tracks are going to be in the contest for that week

Secondly, I know this past week was Sunshine Million at Gulfstream...but to me it seems that 50 percent of the races in the contest have been at that track.

There are 50 states within the USA...that being the case , there has to be at least 30 tracks through out the country holding races now. There is no need to have one track supplying 3 or 4 races each week in the contest. Spread it out.. 8 contested races each week there should be a lot of opportunity.

Just food for thought ..... use the alphabet game for the week being run.

Week "1" is gone, but that would be track names beginning with "A thru H" or further on.

Week "2" is gone.. but that would be tracks "I thru P" or further on

Week "3" is gone ... but that would be tracks "Q thru Z" or back to A and further on

Week "4".. revers back to "A thru H" or further on.

Every third week it recycles. That way the selection is spread out evenly through out the country.

There is another contest coming up in March on PA that has specific tracks and races that must be used.

Let this team contest test our skills at different tracks and race classifications through out the country.....I know it is in the middle of Winter and a lot of tracks are closed.......

But..we have not seen

OAKLAWN PARK; TURF PARADISE; TURFWAY PARK; LAUREL: PARX RACING:
SUNLAND PARK; and GOLDEN GATE yet.

Just my two cents. Thank You.

ndsc32
01-30-2012, 11:48 AM
MY VOTE: LEAVE IT ALONE. iT'S FREE AND IT'S FINE. ANYONE THAT CAN'T HANDLE IT SHOULD DROP OUT. End of vote.

pktruckdriver
01-30-2012, 12:28 PM
MY VOTE: LEAVE IT ALONE. iT'S FREE AND IT'S FINE. ANYONE THAT CAN'T HANDLE IT SHOULD DROP OUT. End of vote.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: I would not be so blunt, but honestly , it is free and with only a few small glitches in putting out the schedule on Thursday, every thing is awesome.

The effort of Jay and Chris and everyone else is so appreciated by me and many others I am sure, leave it alone, it works fine.

I had a litttle confusion myself on the new scoring system in place, but after a few PM's it was explained to me to where I could fully understand it and thought it was fantastic. It makes it even more challanging than last year, which to me was great, and this made it even better, so my opinion is to chill out and keep it the way it is.

How bout a survivor type of contest for say , Keeneland or Saratoga, something short enough, but yet very tough to survive in, just a thought.

Again great job all

Patrick

Jay Trotter
01-30-2012, 02:12 PM
How bout a survivor type of contest for say , Keeneland or Saratoga, something short enough, but yet very tough to survive in, just a thought.

On this note, we still haven't decided on a format for the last 3 contests:

1) Contest 6 - Saratoga/Del Mar Races Only

2) Contest 7 - Match Play (Top 64 Players Qualify) - Each week will have an NCAA Bracket style competition between two players -- I'm thinking a best of 7 competition but don't know what that contest should consist of. Winner advances.

3) Contest 8 - 2 Day Breeder's Cup Contest -- need a format

So, for the creative guys out there, put your mind to how we might put together a challenging format that gives us a different challenge to test the handicapper.:ThmbUp:

goatchaser
01-30-2012, 11:05 PM
Luckier than us West Coasters you are.