Accurate WPS Pools

[classhandicapper]

Does anyone know where I can get live, accurate WPS pools data on the internet?

It seems like ever since tracks went to net pool pricing, some of the available online sources of pool information are missing some portion of the total pool. It's difficult enough to calculate place and show payoffs under net pool pricing as it is, but if you don't have complete pool information it's impossible.

I've made this complaint several times over the last few years to various sources and it seems like they don't even know, care, or know how to fix it.

[Dave Schwartz]

How would one know if they are inaccurate?

[HuggingTheRail]

How would one know if they are inaccurate?

As a Canadian, I can tell you that HPI (Horseplayer Interactive) is partially inaccurate.

They post pool size, and amounts and percentage of pool on the individual horses. There has been many a time where either the dollars on each horse does not equal the total pool or the %'s on each horse do not add up to 100%.

As a numbers junkie - I have an eye for these things, and it boggles my mind. I wrote HPI about it once, got the customary "thanks, we'll look into it" type of answer.

[classhandicapper]

How would one know if they are inaccurate?

On some sites the total of the pool (W, P or S) does not equal the sum of the individual horses in that pool (by a lot). It appears that the totals may be correct, but the individual horse amounts do not contain every dollar bet on each horse.

It started when Net Pool Pricing started to become more popular a few years back. I used to make a lot of very price sensitive place bets at that time. So I reported the problem to two sites, but apparently it was not fixed.

I made a price sensitive place play today and the payoff came back different than I calculated before the race (I know how to calculate it for Net Pool Pricing). It then struck me that the pools were probably still wrong. I checked and they were.

[Robert Fischer]

Does anyone know where I can get live, accurate WPS pools data on the internet?

It seems like ever since tracks went to net pool pricing, some of the available online sources of pool information are missing some portion of the total pool. It's difficult enough to calculate place and show payoffs under net pool pricing as it is, but if you don't have complete pool information it's impossible.

I've made this complaint several times over the last few years to various sources and it seems like they don't even know, care, or know how to fix it.


hey class -

is this pool info for pre-race or post-race ?

[therussmeister]

I import BRIS supertote into excel to calculate win odds and show payoffs, I have very rarely noticed any discrepancies between my spreadsheet's show prices and the actual payoffs, and have never seen any discrepancy regarding win prices. I occasionally compare BRIS wps pool totals versus what the track feed says after the race is run, and I have never seen any discrepancies there.

As far as using tote data to calculate prices, with net pool pricing, you can't be 100% accurate unless you know how much is bet on each horse at each takeout rate, that is why my calculated show prices are, on rare occasions, inaccurate.

[njcurveball]

I can tell you from my experience on 4njbets that many times I will advance bet a race and be on a longshot. I can look at the pool with 15 minutes to post and my money still is not in it.

It is next to impossible to know what will happen in the last 2 minutes in todays market. You can guess at times with a morning line horse of 3-1 sitting at 6-1 and figuring he will come down.

Although last night a horse who was 5-2 morning line was sitting at 6-1 at 1 minute to post. He went to 9-2 on the next flash and then won the race at 6-1.

20 years ago the Dr. Z system was viable, today it is a crap shoot. And to add to the "fun" there are bettors who make big early bets and then cancel them in the last minute or two. I know for a fact at tracks like Mountaineer since the total pool actually goes down. At other tracks it is probably happening as well, just no way to trace it.

I think any bet canceled over $500 should have to be recorded somewhere for the public to be able to see it.

Tote watching, tough game. Good luck if you try it.

[classhandicapper]

hey class -

is this pool info for pre-race or post-race ?

I need it pre race because I want to calculate place prices before making a wager.

[classhandicapper]

I import BRIS supertote into excel to calculate win odds and show payoffs, I have very rarely noticed any discrepancies between my spreadsheet's show prices and the actual payoffs, and have never seen any discrepancy regarding win prices. I occasionally compare BRIS wps pool totals versus what the track feed says after the race is run, and I have never seen any discrepancies there.

As far as using tote data to calculate prices, with net pool pricing, you can't be 100% accurate unless you know how much is bet on each horse at each takeout rate, that is why my calculated show prices are, on rare occasions, inaccurate.

Thanks.

I hear you on the accuracy issue, but in NY worst case would typically be a dime difference and it wouldn't come up all the time. I can more or less live with that. I can't live with expecting to get $2.80 and winding up with 2.40 because the pool data was wrong.

[Robert Goren]

I import BRIS supertote into excel to calculate win odds and show payoffs, I have very rarely noticed any discrepancies between my spreadsheet's show prices and the actual payoffs, and have never seen any discrepancy regarding win prices. I occasionally compare BRIS wps pool totals versus what the track feed says after the race is run, and I have never seen any discrepancies there.

As far as using tote data to calculate prices, with net pool pricing, you can't be 100% accurate unless you know how much is bet on each horse at each takeout rate, that is why my calculated show prices are, on rare occasions, inaccurate.How are you ever going know that when so much money is being bet at the last possible second. Remember if you can get in a bet, so can everybody else. Odds changes going happen, especially if for some reason the oods appear to be out of line.

[therussmeister]

Robert,

I don't know if you quoted me by accident, since your reply was not relevant to my post. Assuming you meant to quote me, I was referring to calculating win and show prices after all the bets have been tallied as a means of confirming BRIS's data is accurate.

[classhandicapper]

How are you ever going know that when so much money is being bet at the last possible second. Remember if you can get in a bet, so can everybody else. Odds changes going happen, especially if for some reason the oods appear to be out of line.

That kind of thing is always an issue unless you are betting on an exchange. I tend to bet in NY so at least the pools are larger.

[Robert Goren]

Robert,

I don't know if you quoted me by accident, since your reply was not relevant to my post. Assuming you meant to quote me, I was referring to calculating win and show prices after all the bets have been tallied as a means of confirming BRIS's data is accurate.I must have misunderstood you. Sorry.

[HuggingTheRail]

As a Canadian, I can tell you that HPI (Horseplayer Interactive) is partially inaccurate.

They post pool size, and amounts and percentage of pool on the individual horses. There has been many a time where either the dollars on each horse does not equal the total pool or the %'s on each horse do not add up to 100%.

As a numbers junkie - I have an eye for these things, and it boggles my mind. I wrote HPI about it once, got the customary "thanks, we'll look into it" type of answer.


Example - just watched a race from Beulah (yeah yeah....)

As the horses were loading/early in the race, this was the place pool info

1 $88 1.2%
2 $588 7.9%
3 $78 1.0%
4 $1262 16.9%
5 $373 5.0%
6 $653 8.7%
7 $278 3.7%

total pool $7479

If you do the math, the 7 horses totals do not add to 7479, nor do the % add to 100%

As the race finished, the dollar amounts then changed, and the sum then equaled 7479

So, it appears that the total pool dollar value changes in a slightly different cycle than the individual horse pools? I got burned by this a few times when HPI started showing the % info...I would see that a situation like this where an odds on fav (#4) would apparently have 16.9% of the place pool (and think it was an opportunity) could be misleading to people.

[davew]

I think there a couple issues with accurate-

how good are numbers and how often are they updated

Xpressbet numbers seem good to me, but they only update every minute or so

same at when I am at a track live, their totes only change so quick for all pools

[Ted Craven]

I think there a couple issues with accurate-

how good are numbers and how often are they updated

Xpressbet numbers seem good to me, but they only update every minute or so

same at when I am at a track live, their totes only change so quick for all pools

Dave,

Did you ever follow up on Amwest? I'm watching GP Race 8 (9 MTP) and the tote is refreshing at least twice per minute with new pool and horse totals each refresh.

Ted