Paterno near death

[Marshall Bennett]

Taken off life support. Seen this often how when their lives are consumed with trouble, their health takes a nose dive. Granted he had cancer, he went quickly none the less. I'm reminded of Richard Nixon (lived longer, but nearly died with phlebitis) and the Shah of Iran (cancer), both struck with a life crisis that seemed to compound their illnesses.

[Marshall Bennett]

I need to apologize. A report by a local news station late last night that all life support was removed was incorrect. He remains on a ventilator, near death none the less.

[Tom]

Dead now. Just saw a bulletin on TV.

[atonymania]

Joe Paterno is dead,may his soul rest in peace.

[Robert Goren]

USA Today has a story about his death now too. It is amazing how quickly things went bad for him. 4 months ago, he was on top the world as the coach of a pretty good football team. Then the Sandusky scandal hits the news, he was fired, is diagnosed with lung cancer and now dead. It just goes show you that you never really have it made.

[BlueShoe]

Have to wonder just how much the scandal contributed to his death. Very likely it eroded his will to live and shortened his life. :(

[FiveWide]

My mom died from lung cancer many years ago and it's very quick, especially if it's inoperable. His had to have been pretty far along when he was diagnosed. Of course the whole scandal could not have helped his health any. Sad story.


-Five

[elysiantraveller]

This one kind of bums me out. Sad ending...

[gaz]

very sad day a great man who touched so many in positive ways

[Rookies]

My mom died from lung cancer many years ago and it's very quick, especially if it's inoperable. His had to have been pretty far along when he was diagnosed. Of course the whole scandal could not have helped his health any. Sad story.


-Five

Yep. Had a good friend who died of it. He was a great guy with a great small food biz, a loving wife and family. He was in Stage 4 when found, fought the good fight, but not, regrettably, for long. Mortality rate is very high due to the obvious, multiple opps to spread to other parts of the body. She carries on with the biz, but you simply read sadness in her eyes... even 5 years later.

With Paterno, a sad end at the nadir of his storied career.

[atlasaxis]

Stress is an immune system killer for sure. No doubt all that he's been thru in the last few mos accelerated his decline. RIP Joe.

[lsbets]

very sad day a great man who touched so many in positive ways

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.

Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.

[elysiantraveller]

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.

Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.

I agree.

I'm not trying to idolize him just feel sad that a once great man goes out like this.

We'll know all the facts in time but it's hard to see people who; throughout the majority of their life, do the right thing, and do it well, be taken down.

I'm not saying it isn't deserved but it sucks nonetheless.

[thaskalos]

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.

Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.
My sentiments exactly!

The distinction has to be made between Paterno the coach...and Paterno the man.

We have a habit of overglorifying people when they die...as a sign of respect for the recently deceased. I just can't bring myself to do that in this case.

The thought, that a powerful coach like him refused to run to the aid of helpless children who were being abused in the worse way...is far too disturbing.

Paterno lived a full and storied life. Sadly...his actions -- or inactions -- prevented others from doing the same.

[DJofSD]

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.

Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.
Sad that the man has died, but, I pretty much agree with the sentiment.

[lsbets]

gotta admit I'm surprised. I expected to get blasted for my post. Kudos to you guys.

[thaskalos]

gotta admit I'm surprised. I expected to get blasted for my post. Kudos to you guys.
The credit goes to the one who INITIALLY made this point, friend!

Kudos to YOU! :ThmbUp:

[Ocala Mike]

The events here rise to the level of Greek or Shakesperean tragedy. I mostly agree with the sentiments above, but never forget that the true devil here is Sandusky, who should rot in prison and burn in hell. RIP, Joe Pa.


:( :( :( :(


Ocala Mike

[Zippy Chippy]

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.


Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.

Hi guys. Haven't been here in a couple months. Logged on to see if there was a paterno thread. I disagree! Penn St has been a team I have hated and rooted against my entire life, but I think JoePa is a great man. It's easy to say we would have all done something different if we were in his shoes. He is definitely remorseful for how things went down. It's a tough situation and I'm confused how I feel. I think he made more of made a mistake rather than saying he's not a good man. On a side note I hope sandusky dies a horrible death.

[cj]

Hi guys. Haven't been here in a couple months. Logged on to see if there was a paterno thread. I disagree! Penn St has been a team I have hated and rooted against my entire life, but I think JoePa is a great man. It's easy to say we would have all done something different if we were in his shoes. He is definitely remorseful for how things went down. It's a tough situation and I'm confused how I feel. I think he made more of made a mistake rather than saying he's not a good man. On a side note I hope sandusky dies a horrible death.

Having a chance to do the right thing, and not doing it, eliminates him from consideration in my opinion. I'm not crucifying the guy because nobody really knows what he would do until he is in the same spot. However, his inaction led to the violation of many more kids than should have happened. He can't be considered great.

[gaz]

i guess you were there when he was told what had been going on.

I never said anything about coaching. HE was a person that personaly touched

my family in many ways. everyone makes mistakes.

[lsbets]

i guess you were there when he was told what had been going on.

I never said anything about coaching. HE was a person that personaly touched

my family in many ways. everyone makes mistakes.

And thanks to his cowardice many children were touched in ways they should not have been. Your standards for greatness are very low.

[horses4courses]

He was not a great man. He was a great football coach who allowed despicable acts to continue so it would not interfere with his football program.

I'm sorry, I can't suddenly lionize a man because he died when his lasting legacy in life is the abuse of young boys that went on under his nose even after he was made aware of it.

Great coach, yes. Great man, not even close.

Well said, Isbets.
Was talking about this earlier today with my wife, and we share your sentiments.
There's more to life than football.......

[lsbets]

It's easy to say we would have all done something different if we were in his shoes.

It is easy to say, because most people would have done something different. For most people a line is crossed when it involves children and they act.

[gaz]

Greatness is measured in many ways. Does one mistake define who you are? I think not. I too am appauled at what those children endured, however it was not at the hands of Joe. Many others involved could also be considered cowards,mainly the people he reported it to, who assured him it was being taken care of. Does it get him off the hook? no. It does not define what he was. And i assume that by your words you are perfect and have never made a mistake.

[PaceAdvantage]

Greatness is measured in many ways. Does one mistake define who you are? I think not. I too am appauled at what those children endured, however it was not at the hands of Joe. Many others involved could also be considered cowards,mainly the people he reported it to, who assured him it was being taken care of. Does it get him off the hook? no. It does not define what he was. And i assume that by your words you are perfect and have never made a mistake.This wasn't "just a mistake." He didn't accidentally hand a customer a $20 bill instead of the $10 they deserved.

No, his mistake was monumental, and had a devastating effect (from what we know) on MULTIPLE lives...not just the children directly violated, but their families, their friends, as well as their future spouses and families.

[lsbets]

And i assume that by your words you are perfect and have never made a mistake.

Really I said that?

I was willing to give you a pass, but now you have descended into idiocy. You want to call a man great who essentially looked the other way while kids were being molested? Good for you. But please, for the sake of all of us, don't ever be asked to do the right thing, apparently you have no idea what it is.

Through his inaction, many more kids lives were ruined. And that seems to be perfectly fine with you. What kind of a sick, twisted person are you?

[pktruckdriver]

This wasn't "just a mistake." He didn't accidentally hand a customer a $20 bill instead of the $10 they deserved.

No, his mistake was monumental, and had a devastating effect (from what we know) on MULTIPLE lives...not just the children directly violated, but their families, their friends, as well as their future spouses and families.


Nicely put, Bossman, this went on for years and years , how many lives were damaged , how many kids , if he would have stopped this maniac, then yes Joe Pa, would have been , WITHOUT DOUBT , The best coach ever, and now , while he did some very great things for many, he'll always be remembered for what he did not do, sad, but true.

Rest In Peace, Coach

Patrick

[gaz]

What do we really know?.

[Marshall Bennett]

gotta admit I'm surprised. I expected to get blasted for my post. Kudos to you guys.
You were absolutely spot on. We're basically a nation of sympathetic human beings when it comes to death. We try to surface the good in someone that's passed, perhaps in respect of their families, and revisit whatever else later on or forget it altogether. I doubt, however, that the impact of his sins will ever go quietly.

[cj]

What do we really know?.

Did you not watch his interview? He said he regretted not doing more.

[Grits]

What do we really know?.

We know this. You wrote the bolded words below at this website.

"JUST REMEMBER YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT YOU CANNOT PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME."

You're correct and you'd would do well to heed your own words.

Only among Penn State students and alumni may this legacy remain intact. Nationwide . . . not so much.

When winning becomes everything; at our core, we place ourselves at risk for becoming, due to our own choices, nothing more than another's nightmare. Coach Paterno became a vital link in a nightmare that is far, far from over for many. :(

[Tom]

Nothing important ever happened on a football field.
Horrible thing happened in locker rooms.

He coached college boys playing a game and nothing more.

[Ocala Mike]

Nothing important ever happened on a football field.
Horrible thing happened in locker rooms.

He coached college boys playing a game and nothing more.


:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


Ocala Mike

[cj]

:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:


Ocala Mike

It is true nothing really that important happens on the field, but a lot of good comes from playing organized sports from childhood through college. Sports has saved a lot of kids and made men out of others. I wouldn't trivialize the good a coach can do.

[Ocala Mike]

And I wouldn't trivialize the evil a coach can do either through his inaction.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke


Ocala Mike

[cj]

And I wouldn't trivialize the evil a coach can do either through his inaction.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke


Ocala Mike

I've said the same already. I'm just adding that sports can and do contribute good as well.

[proximity]

coach paterno could have and should have done a lot more in the sandusky situation. and i'm not sure that coaches should get credit for "wins" when they're sitting in a pressbox. i'm not even sure that coaching wins should be a statistic. and despite having similar graduation rates, penn state is not stanford. how is stanford's "parks and recreation" department? :rolleyes:

however, if he wasn't a great man, coach paterno was certainly a very good man with MANY outstanding qualities. he had high degrees of intelligence, wit, charisma, and charm. he was genuine and generous. he was modest and humble. and these things don't even have anything to do with his true talent: coaching the game of football.

the guy was liked by probably over 99 percent of those who knew him. that is a pretty good record and one not too many horseplayers (myself certainly included) will ever match.

[Dave Schwartz]

the guy was liked by probably over 99 percent of those who knew him. that is a pretty good record and one not too many horseplayers (myself certainly included) will ever match.

So was Bernie Maddoff.

[proximity]

So was Bernie Maddoff.

i'm sure they'll all be crying at his funeral.

[Grits]

however, if he wasn't a great man, coach paterno was certainly a very good man with MANY outstanding qualities. he had high degrees of intelligence, wit, charisma, and charm. he was genuine and generous. he was modest and humble. and these things don't even have anything to do with his true talent: coaching the game of football.

Coaches around the country are hailing his career. And him. I don't anticipate them doing otherwise. I don't think they'd dare mention his doing nothing, turning his head--when it mattered the most. Other coaches don't want to involve themselves in this nightmare by interjecting their opinion, particularly at his death.

For all you've stated, I'm sorry, its quite easy to remain unmoved.

In all of this, he used neither his intelligence, wit, charisma, charm, genuiness, generosity, modesty, or humility--when it mattered most. He did offer humility and great regret after his firing which was not visible on his front porch, outside his home, when the story broke.

He will be forever remembered for having done nothing to help those young boys, those children.

Will it define him, no, probably not. I can promise you this though, it'll never leave him, it will always be associated with him. I believe its called, a grave mistake. Baggage.

Unlike Madoff, fortunately, there will be plenty of eulogizing and crying at Coach Paterno's funeral. But, what does it matter?

[proximity]

we already had a 300+ post thread to rip this gentleman, and if i recall correctly i was even the one who started it.

coach paterno was certainly a better man than bernie madoff, there is no comparison. he created a lot, gave a lot, and took very little. his salary was less than that of many assistant coaches around the country who weren't consistently giving huge donations to their schools and he lived in that humble "brady bunch" house for about all of his years in state college.

[Marshall Bennett]

He could have blown the whistle and brought the molestation to an end, but didn't. Go give the children that went down in the wake, and their families, your bleeding ass cries of forgiveness. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to hear it.

[NJ Stinks]

we already had a 300+ post thread to rip this gentleman, and if i recall correctly i was even the one who started it.

coach paterno was certainly a better man than bernie madoff, there is no comparison. he created a lot, gave a lot, and took very little. his salary was less than that of many assistant coaches around the country who weren't consistently giving huge donations to their schools and he lived in that humble "brady bunch" house for about all of his years in state college.

Proximity, I was not ever a fan of Joe Pa. I always have rejected the idea that Penn State was somehow the 'College of Philadelphia' even though the campus is located about 4 hours northwest of Philly. I rooted hard for Jim Kelly and Miami when they beat Penn State way back when. I agreed 1000% with Dick MacPherson, when he was coaching Syracuse a long time ago, who told Joe to to go to hell - Syracuse was not going to sign a contract whereby Syracuse had to play two games at Happy Valley for every one game Penn State played at Syracuse. Hell, I'm still pissed that my high school teammate (Franco Harris) got a lot less carries at Penn State then Franco's classsmate at Penn State, Lydell Mitchell.

Still, I can't sit here and judge the guy primarily for actions not taken when he was in his mid-70's. I just don't think it is a fair barometer of his life.

[proximity]

nj, now philly's lost andy musser too.

tough week for pa sports.

[NJ Stinks]

nj, now philly's lost andy musser too.

tough week for pa sports.

Andy Musser too? I didn't know. :(

[Rookies]

"Success with Honor" is the core founding principle for PSU & was embodied, amplified & promoted by Joe Pa as the foundation for football and moral superiority. To do this though, you've gotta carry that ball all the way over the goal line. No stopping at the 5 and shitting on the field.
That's simply not gonna cut it.

A generation ago, that's what happened to OJ. A life of success, promotion of talent and ability, exhibitions of social skill and community service, all washed away in one vile moment of anger, self destruction and stupidity.

And so it is with Joe Pa. There he was headed steadfastly to the finish line, life's goal line, when faced with one of its most critical decisions. He failed- badly, in a crucial time of need for those absolutely most in need. His life in that instant was marked with the cross of failure- no going back. Regardless of all the good that he exhibited to so many and preceeded that moment in time, it ended there. The ledger could never be balanced again.

Instead as the cancer caught him, his life for all time was indelibly stamped as:

" Success with Dis-honor. "

[elysiantraveller]

A generation ago, that's what happened to OJ. A life of success, promotion of talent and ability, exhibitions of social skill and community service, all washed away in one vile moment of anger, self destruction and stupidity.

Alright I'm going to go ahead and take some exception to Joe Paterno being compared to someone who murdered a innocent man and women in cold blood.

Joe Paterno accomplished more and positively affected the lives of more people than many of us would in ten lifetimes. This scandal was the worst moment of his life and one more chance to do something good and he failed miserably. He DOES deserve to be judged by this failure but comparing him to someone like OJ Simpson is a new low.

The simple fact is the world would be a much better place with more people like him in it.

Flame Away.

[newtothegame]

Wow,
I am amazed at some of the comments, although I understand where they are coming from.
Joa Pa ...some here call him a great man! I can in NO way speak to this except for what has been reported in the news. I did not know him personally, so I think it unfair for me to comment on him as a man except again, as what has been told in the media and from his own mouth. "I regret not doing more".

from youth on up, I have loved football. Penn St was always a team to be feared and played hard from start to finish. As a "coach", I have to give him his dues. As CJ pointed out, coaching is more then what happens on a field. There were literally thousands of young men in his care and obviously many of them went on to do big things.

But, when it comes to kids, most all of us have some very hard, non forgiving feelings. I too, reside on that side of the fence. Joe Pa had a chance to stop what was happening to those kids and he didnt. POINT BLANK, he FAILED!
For that, I can not, nor do I wish to relegate any terms like "great" upon him.

I think it was gaz in this thread who asked about "making mistakes". This was NO MISTAKE. A mistake is a wrong turn, a mistake is the wrong tip, a mistake is tripping and breaking a vase. KIDS BEING MOLESTED AND YOU KNOWING AND BASICALLY DOING NOTHING is NOT A MISTAKE! That's a choice! A VERY BAD CHOICE at that!

I have to ask myself, how many other "mistakes" were made by the GREAT man at state valley? The reason I ask is Joe Pa was considered by many a god in that area of the country. How many other (not so big deal) mistakes were covered up? I say not so big deal as it seems this is the path that most at Penn St took. For me, knowing and doing nothing is just as bad as the act itself.
Sorry joe Pa, you may have done many good things in life. Right now, I can't tell!
PD

[Robert Goren]

Paterno was a football coach who won a lot games. I am sorry, but in my mind that doesn't make you hero. That makes him successful business man in the entertainment industry. Nothing more. The recent disclosures show him to have serious lack moral judgement. It is hard to say when all is said and done that world is better place for Joe Paterno being in it. That's how I judge a man's life. Is the world better or worse off for him being in it.
You can go on and on about how sports builds "character", but it also destroys bodies. Judging from afar is a bit tricky, but I haven't seen a lot of "character" coming out of Penn State these days especially regarding any connected to football program there.

[elysiantraveller]

He doesn't deserve to be considered a great man but he also doesn't deserve to be vilified either.

Most good people work their whole lives to make amends for past mistakes. I just consider his paid in advance.

This thread literally is beating a dead horse.

[newtothegame]

He doesn't deserve to be considered a great man but he also doesn't deserve to be vilified either.

Most good people work their whole lives to make amends for past mistakes. I just consider his paid in advance.

This thread literally is beating a dead horse.
Ok elysian......what would you bestow upon a man who KNEW about child molestations happening, could of stopped them, yet didn't? taking into account that Joe Pa RAN everything that went on at state valley. Maybe not in title but definitely it stature. How would you characterize a man who did these things?
What if it were your child who was one of the poor children who suffered due to his lack of decision making process? Would you accept, "I am sorry Mr Elysian, it was a mistake??

[Rookies]

Alright I'm going to go ahead and take some exception to Joe Paterno being compared to someone who murdered a innocent man and women in cold blood.

Joe Paterno accomplished more and positively affected the lives of more people than many of us would in ten lifetimes. This scandal was the worst moment of his life and one more chance to do something good and he failed miserably. He DOES deserve to be judged by this failure but comparing him to someone like OJ Simpson is a new low.

The simple fact is the world would be a much better place with more people like him in it.

Flame Away.

No flaming, but I'll admit I chose a deliberately savage analogy to underscore the complete and abject failure of Paterno in his life moment of crisis. No- he didn't murder or rape anyone, OJ & (if proven) Sandusky did.

But he stood by idly and allowed several children to have their lives destroyed on an ongoing basis via child, sexual abuse. Which crime is worse ? Paterno undercut everything he embodied through his failure of ensuring Sandusky was brought before the judicial system.

And if you wish to know, MY penalty for child abusers is Hang 'em High! :mad:

[elysiantraveller]

Ok elysian......what would you bestow upon a man who KNEW about child molestations happening, could of stopped them, yet didn't? taking into account that Joe Pa RAN everything that went on at state valley. Maybe not in title but definitely it stature. How would you characterize a man who did these things?
What if it were your child who was one of the poor children who suffered due to his lack of decision making process? Would you accept, "I am sorry Mr Elysian, it was a mistake??

No, but I would have enough respect for a dead man not to take to Internet forums condemning him in death.

Like I said most of us couldn't have positively affected as many people as he did if we lived 10 lifetimes. I am in NO WAY saying he was a great man but I sure as hell don't think he is as evil as this thread would make one believe.

[elysiantraveller]

No flaming, but I'll admit I chose a deliberately savage analogy to underscore the complete and abject failure of Paterno in his life moment of crisis. No- he didn't murder or rape anyone, OJ & (if proven) Sandusky did.

But he stood by idly and allowed several children to have their lives destroyed on an ongoing basis via child, sexual abuse. Which crime is worse ? Paterno undercut everything he embodied through his failure of ensuring Sandusky was brought before the judicial system.

And if you wish to know, MY penalty for child abusers is Hang 'em High! :mad:

I'm not making a single excuse for his actions. He doesn't deserve one. We will all learn the facts when they come out. But the guy is dead. He did a lot of good. Can't people just show some respect?

Not trying to pick on you with that question.

[thaskalos]

No flaming, but I'll admit I chose a deliberately savage analogy to underscore the complete and abject failure of Paterno in his life moment of crisis. No- he didn't murder or rape anyone, OJ & (if proven) Sandusky did.

But he stood by idly and allowed several children to have their lives destroyed on an ongoing basis via child, sexual abuse. Which crime is worse ? Paterno undercut everything he embodied through his failure of ensuring Sandusky was brought before the judicial system.

And if you wish to know, MY penalty for child abusers is Hang 'em High! :mad:

I agree.

Paterno would often SPEAK about ethics and moral conduct...but, when he was called upon to show what he was really made of...he proved unworthy of his role as a leader -- and even of his role as a MAN.

Not only did he not feel compelled to stop this atrocity when it was initially reported...but he stood idly by as Sandusky continued to roam the campus for years and years to come.

Very disturbing indeed...and hardly the stuff "real" men are made of...

[proximity]

I'm not making a single excuse for his actions. He doesn't deserve one. We will all learn the facts when they come out. But the guy is dead. He did a lot of good. Can't people just show some respect?
.

i agree with your view and i'm hated here for it. ironically (i live in pennsylvania) i'm hated in non-internet life for my views that the man coach paterno took the actual eye witness to see, gary schultz wasn't an actual l.e.o..... although he did oversee the university police. at the track i'm losing to jamie ness horses and betting fixed races at delta. except for micro stakes poker on bovadadog i can't win anywhere!!

[PaceAdvantage]

i agree with your view and i'm hated here for it.Has anyone but me noticed the massive overuse of hyperbole everywhere it seems these days?

"I'M HATED HERE FOR IT" Really? You honestly believe people here actually hate you because of what you've written in this thread?

I don't believe that for one second.

[Grits]

Like I said most of us couldn't have positively affected as many people as he did if we lived 10 lifetimes. I am in NO WAY saying he was a great man

Everyone doesn't have, of course, a 46 year career as a football coach. Quantity of lives, positively, affected isn't important. The reason being, its not comparable, across the board, in regard to what others do for a living. How many people others, through their work come in contact with, therefore, are able to benefit on a smaller scale than that of Coach Paterno is just as valuable and just as valid.

It could be one who chooses to be a teacher, a surgeon, a job placement analyst providing work or new career direction, a social worker, a criminal defense attorney, a nurse, a director of a homeless shelter, one who farms, one who owns a restaurant, etc, etc.

Numbers don't mean anything and all of this can make a difference in one lifetime, not ten.

As the old saying goes . . . "I just don't know as many people as you do".

[wisconsin]

Still, I can't sit here and judge the guy primarily for actions not taken when he was in his mid-70's. I just don't think it is a fair barometer of his life.


My sentiments exactly.

[Cardus]

We know this. You wrote the bolded words below at this website.

"JUST REMEMBER YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME BUT YOU CANNOT PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME."

You're correct and you'd would do well to heed your own words.

Only among Penn State students and alumni may this legacy remain intact. Nationwide . . . not so much.

When winning becomes everything; at our core, we place ourselves at risk for becoming, due to our own choices, nothing more than another's nightmare. Coach Paterno became a vital link in a nightmare that is far, far from over for many. :(

Paterno's inaction regarding Sandusky's behavior has nothing to do with "winning becom[ing] everything."

[Grits]

Paterno's inaction regarding Sandusky's behavior has nothing to do with "winning becom[ing] everything."

Your usual one liner doesn't move me. Given Sandusky was an asst. coach to him, sorry, I'm not inclined to agree with you.

[wisconsin]

Your usual one liner doesn't move me. Given Sandusky was an asst. coach to him, sorry, I'm not inclined to agree with you.


That we know of, the inaction happend 3 years after Sandusky retired. Have to agree with Cardus.

[Cardus]

Your usual one liner doesn't move me. Given Sandusky was an asst. coach to him, sorry, I'm not inclined to agree with you.

Your disagreement is not a total loss, Grits.

At least you didn't spend half-a-page to explain your disagreement.

Paterno's inaction might have been about A) protecting a friend, B) protecting a program and university, or C) protecting his reputation or image, but it was not about what you posted.

[proximity]

Has anyone but me noticed the massive overuse of hyperbole everywhere it seems these days?


you're right, my post was quite "lamboish" and i don't honestly believe that. i was just trying to get across that my somewhat middle of the road views on this polarizing topic are getting me heat from both sides. i didn't do the best job of expressing that.

[proximity]

Paterno's inaction might have been about A) protecting a friend, B) protecting a program and university, or C) protecting his reputation or image, but it was not about what you posted.

coach paterno's inaction was most likely due to D) the fact that this situation was far outside of the jolly old guy's comfort zone and he just wanted to pass it on to administrators like curley and schultz so he could just concentrate on football. not following up with curley, schultz, and the mcqueary family was his big mistake here.

[Grits]

Your disagreement is not a total loss, Grits.

At least you didn't spend half-a-page to explain your disagreement.

Paterno's inaction might have been about A) protecting a friend, B) protecting a program and university, or C) protecting his reputation or image, but it was not about what you posted.

Cardus, you're smarter than this.

You haven't involved yourself regarding Penn State and Coach Paterno. Were you called in this afternoon? Second team defense to protect your quarterback, again?

You've got your hands full running from thread to thread.

[Cardus]

coach paterno's inaction was most likely due to D) the fact that this situation was far outside of the jolly old guy's comfort zone and he just wanted to pass it on to administrators like curley and schultz so he could just concentrate on football. not following up with curley, schultz, and the mcqueary family was his big mistake here.

Paterno was much, much more than a football coach at Penn State. He was involved in a lot there (his involvement has been documented, and has been used as an excuse on his behalf in defense against those who are not willing to give him a pass), so I would not conclude that he passed it on to "concentrate on football".

[Cardus]

Cardus, you're smarter than this.

You haven't involved yourself regarding Penn State and Coach Paterno. Were you called in this afternoon? Second team defense to protect your quarterback, again?

You've got your hands full running from thread to thread.

I haven't "involved (myself) regarding Penn State and Coach Paterno"?

What?

[proximity]

Paterno was much, much more than a football coach at Penn State. He was involved in a lot there (his involvement has been documented, and has been used as an excuse on his behalf in defense against those who are not willing to give him a pass), so I would not conclude that he passed it on to "concentrate on football".

that is true but football was the guy's main focus from the time he first arrived at psu and it is ALL that he EVER wanted to do. if it was up to him he was never going to retire.

[Dahoss9698]

That we know of, the inaction happend 3 years after Sandusky retired. Have to agree with Cardus.

Agree with you and Cardus. Always good to deal in facts in these discussions and leave the emotions out. All they do is cloud one's judgement.

[thaskalos]

Here is what I can't comprehend. All of society is in complete agreement that serial child-rapists like Sandusky are the scum of the earth. They don't even last long in prison, because they get targeted by the other violent criminals.

And yet, a scumbag like Sandusky was so worthy of Paterno's protection...that JoePa wagered his entire legacy on him?

[PaceAdvantage]

And yet, a scumbag like Sandusky was so worthy of Paterno's protection...that JoePa wagered his entire legacy on him?I have a theory that Sandusky had some serious dirt on Paterno and the Penn State program...that's my only guess as to why Paterno would act in the way he did..

Then again, it's simply a theory...but we all know how dirty college football can be and how schools consistently get themselves into hot water with the NCAA for recruiting violations, among other things...

Who knows what Sandusky might have held over those who knew of his sick proclivities.

[bigmack]

I have a theory that Sandusky had some serious dirt on Paterno and the Penn State program...that's my only guess as to why Paterno would act in the way he did..
I guess it's possible, but THAT be a stretch.

A Mexican Standoff? Not bloody likely.
http://nymag.magnify.net/video/The-Office-Mexican-Standoff#c=L5MV320JHGV5YNY8&t=The

[proximity]

And yet, a scumbag like Sandusky was so worthy of Paterno's protection...that JoePa wagered his entire legacy on him?

in my view i'm not sure coach paterno thought he was protecting anybody or wagering anything. at the time of the locker room incident he was long done with jerry sandusky. he'd already let jerry know he wasn't going to be heir apparent and of course in his mind there was never going to be an heir apparent because he was going to coach forever. certainly as time went by i do think he should have used his power to lean on administrators curley and schultz for some closure to the situation. a tony sopranoesque "whatever happened with that thing guys?" follow up would have been nice from both coach paterno and the mcquearys. of course regional law enforcement was on to the guy long before this too.

[proximity]

I have a theory that Sandusky had some serious dirt on Paterno and the Penn State program...that's my only guess as to why Paterno would act in the way he did..


he probably would have used such information to at the very least remain on the staff, if not become head coach. who knows?

i remember asking a guy who played for coach sandusky at psu about this last spring and he was quite confident that "jerry didn't do anything to those kids" and although now he does believe differently he was amazed at the man he thought he knew.

[Dahoss9698]

Here is what I can't comprehend. All of society is in complete agreement that serial child-rapists like Sandusky are the scum of the earth. They don't even last long in prison, because they get targeted by the other violent criminals.

And yet, a scumbag like Sandusky was so worthy of Paterno's protection...that JoePa wagered his entire legacy on him?

I don't think Paterno even thought about it that way. I think he was incapable of handling the situation and as has been mentioned already just tried to pass it off to whoever he could. Whether he was incapable of handling it mentally, emotionally, whatever...he just couldn't do it and while we all act like we would have handled it differently, I can guarantee a good percentage of people who are talking a good game right now are incapable of handling it as well.

From all reports Sandusky and Paterno weren't even that close, so I don't think he was interested in protecting him at all. If he was trying to protect anything it was Penn State and Penn State football, because IMO that was his passion and the thing that kept him going.

He made an extremely poor decision in that aspect.

[Robert Goren]

I have a theory that Sandusky had some serious dirt on Paterno and the Penn State program...that's my only guess as to why Paterno would act in the way he did..

Then again, it's simply a theory...but we all know how dirty college football can be and how schools consistently get themselves into hot water with the NCAA for recruiting violations, among other things...

Who knows what Sandusky might have held over those who knew of his sick proclivities. I think that Sandusky had promised Paterno when Paterno found about it that he would stop doing it. So Paterno cut his long time friend and colleague a break. This is merely guess work on my part, it is the only way Paterno's actions make sense to me.

[bigmack]

I don't think Paterno even thought about it that way. I think he was incapable of handling the situation and as has been mentioned already just tried to pass it off to whoever he could. Whether he was incapable of handling it mentally, emotionally, whatever...he just couldn't do it and while we all act like we would have handled it differently, I can guarantee a good percentage of people who are talking a good game right now are incapable of handling it as well.

From all reports Sandusky and Paterno weren't even that close, so I don't think he was interested in protecting him at all. If he was trying to protect anything it was Penn State and Penn State football, because IMO that was his passion and the thing that kept him going.

He made an extremely poor decision in that aspect.
Look at the big brain on you. I agree 100%

JP reacting to news of pedophilia would be like Bush Sr. swiping a bar coded item through a checkout stand.

"How do this work?"

[proximity]

...he just couldn't do it and while we all act like we would have handled it differently, I can guarantee a good percentage of people who are talking a good game right now are incapable of handling it as well.


you're probably right.

many people knew more and were more deeply involved than joe pa and yet was there even ever an anonymous letter sent to get word circulating around the second mile foundation? hell, police were staked out in the next room when sandusky basically admitted he was guilty and begged a victim's mother for forgiveness.

[Dahoss9698]

you're probably right.

many people knew more and were more deeply involved than joe pa and yet was there even ever an anonymous letter sent to get word circulating around the second mile foundation? hell, police were staked out in the next room when sandusky basically admitted he was guilty and begged a victim's mother for forgiveness.

How about a guy like McQueary? He allegedly walks in on it and instead of stopping it, he runs off to find someone to tell.

It's been covered up for so long because I just don't think people can wrap their head around why someone would do something like that.

[mountainman]

How about a guy like McQueary? He allegedly walks in on it and instead of stopping it, he runs off to find someone to tell.

It's been covered up for so long because I just don't think people can wrap their head around why someone would do something like that.

One thing being lost in this is Paterno's age when first informed. How many guys in their 70's would have the awareness, resolve, or even energy to take decisive action in that situation?

[Cardus]

One thing being lost in this is Paterno's age when first informed. How many guys in their 70's would have the awareness, resolve, or even energy to take decisive action in that situation?

It takes less energy, awareness, and resolve to act morally, and decisively, in that situation than it does to coach a major Division I football team.

By a mile. Or many miles.

[Grits]

One thing being lost in this is Paterno's age when first informed. How many guys in their 70's would have the awareness, resolve, or even energy to take decisive action in that situation?

How old are you? Or, better yet, do you know anyone 70+. I can't believe what I'm reading.

You actually believe that someone in their 70s doesn't have enough neurons firing in their brain (awareness), enough backbone (resolve), enough energy (the ability to make a phone call or drive to their nearest law enforcement's office) to show decisive action and concern? Which in "that situation" involves the reporting of activity learned regarding a pedophile?

Have I got a woman I'd love for you to meet. My mother, she's 81.

[Dahoss9698]

One thing being lost in this is Paterno's age when first informed. How many guys in their 70's would have the awareness, resolve, or even energy to take decisive action in that situation?

I agree with your premise but think it's more of a generational thing. I think Paterno had the awareness, resolve and energy to take action. I just don't think he knew what to do because he grew up in a totally different time than we are living in.

The world in 2012 is drastically different than the one in the 1950's or 1960's. Turn the TV on right now and time how long it takes you to find some kind of sexually provocative show. Probably less than a minute. We have "celebrities" whose claim to fame is making sex tapes or how many kids they have.

The world has changed and probably not for the better. It has nothing to do with not understanding what is right and wrong. Paterno acknowledged he should have done more. IMO it had to do with him not knowing how to do it. There is no playbook for something like that. No manual on how to act, or react.

We all can pound our chests and say we would have acted differently but until we are put in that situation no one really knows.

[thaskalos]

It takes less energy, awareness, and resolve to act morally, and decisively, in that situation than it does to coach a major Division I football team.

By a mile. Or many miles.
Who can argue with logic? :ThmbUp:

[cj]

It takes less energy, awareness, and resolve to act morally, and decisively, in that situation than it does to coach a major Division I football team.

By a mile. Or many miles.

No argument there. My only question would be was he really even coaching. Most don't think he had done any really coaching in at least a decade.

[thaskalos]

We all can pound our chests and say we would have acted differently but until we are put in that situation no one really knows.
Yes, you are right. We can never be sure of how we would react to a situation, until we are confronted with it.

We are often not really as courageous as we THINK we are.

But the fact remains, and it applies equally to us, as it did to Joe Paterno:

If you find out that someone -- ANYONE -- is raping 10-year old children right under your nose, at the place that you call "home"...then you take the necessary measures to make sure that these atrocities are stopped as quickly as possible...especially if YOU are the one calling the shots.

Protecting the child-rapist by keeping quiet...while this monster continues preying on kids for years and years to come, is unthinkable and unforgivable...and is proof positive that you deserve to be vilified for being LESS than what a "human being" SHOULD be -- whether your name is Paterno, Thaskalos, DaHoss, Grits, Proximity, CJ...or anything else.

[cj]

Lets not forget, none of us have remotely close to the power the Joe Paterno had in State College. He was the tsar. If he wanted something done, it would have been done. Period.

[Dahoss9698]

Protecting the child-rapist by keeping quiet...while this monster continues preying on kids for years and years to come, is unthinkable and unforgivable...and is proof positive that you deserve to be vilified for being LESS than what a "human being" SHOULD be -- whether your name is Paterno, Thaskalos, DaHoss, Grits, Proximity, CJ...or anything else.

I'm not disagreeing he didn't do enough. I'm providing a reason for why he might not have. He didn't keep quiet. He reported it the AD and President of the University. Again, WHAT HE DID WAS NOT ENOUGH. He should have followed through, but didn't.

In my opinion he didn't because he was incapable of processing the entire thing. I can't fault someone for that, but I can certainly understand those that want to. We're all different and all capable of handling various things.

I'm just saying his good deeds and all of his generosity should not be overshadowed by something that I think he was not mentally or emotionally able to handle. If we think hard enough, I'm sure we all know someone or many people in our personal lives who probably couldn't handle it also. Do you not view them as human?

He donated over $4 million of his own money to Penn State. Was involved in the raising of nearly $14 million dollars to build a library on campus. Even after he was fired, he donated $100,000 to Penn State. He acknowledged he didn't do enough and according to reports was remorseful about it. That's about as human as this entire situation is going to get.

Unfortunately we can't crank up a Delorean and go back in time and fix this awful situation. I think when you look at the big picture his life was a lot more positive than negative.

[thaskalos]

I'm not disagreeing he didn't do enough. I'm providing a reason for why he might not have. He didn't keep quiet. He reported it the AD and President of the University. Again, WHAT HE DID WAS NOT ENOUGH. He should have followed through, but didn't.

In my opinion he didn't because he was incapable of processing the entire thing. I can't fault someone for that, but I can certainly understand those that want to. We're all different and all capable of handling various things.

I'm just saying his good deeds and all of his generosity should not be overshadowed by something that I think he was not mentally or emotionally able to handle. If we think hard enough, I'm sure we all know someone or many people in our personal lives who probably couldn't handle it also. Do you not view them as human?


He donated over $4 million of his own money to Penn State. Was involved in the raising of nearly $14 million dollars to build a library on campus. Even after he was fired, he donated $100,000 to Penn State. He acknowledged he didn't do enough and according to reports was remorseful about it. That's about as human as this entire situation is going to get.

Unfortunately we can't crank up a Delorean and go back in time and fix this awful situation. I think when you look at the big picture his life was a lot more positive than negative.

You say that, in your opinion, Paterno wasn't mentally or emotionally capable of making the right decision in a situation such as this.

Since we are making assumptions...here is one of my own:

If the child-rapist's name isn't "Sandusky"...Paterno nails him to the cross.

[Cardus]

Lets not forget, none of us have remotely close to the power the Joe Paterno had in State College. He was the tsar. If he wanted something done, it would have been done. Period.

This is ironclad truth.

Also, I think that it is reasonable to suppose that he told the two administration members and didn't follow up with them because he did not want to know that what was told to him by the assistant was true.

[Grits]

Thask wrote: Yes, you are right. We can never be sure of how we would react to a situation, until we are confronted with it.

We are often not really as courageous as we THINK we are.

But the fact remains, and it applies equally to us, as it did to Joe Paterno:

Thask, it probably has nothing to do with my generation, or my 60 years on the planet. It has to do with being a mother; a parent, like others.

Some of us know we have the courage--we know we can go however far we need to go, face whatever we have to do, should we find ourselves in the situation of either being made aware of, or witnessing a sexual assault on any child, or for that matter, on any adult.

[riskman]

This thread is about Joe Paterno. Unfortunately his name will be linked with Gerald Sandusky one of Paterno's coaches at Penn State for 23 years. Sandusky is the subject of an investigation into sodomizing minor male children on the campus of Penn State and other places including the perps home. Sandusky's foundation which he founded for troubled kids was used by this perp as base to seduce his future victims.
Sandusky actions leave a trail going back more than 10 years.The locker room incident goes back at least that long and the victim is an adult now as many of the victims are. Now after all this time, all connected with this incident have a thousand excuses about how they reacted even to the point of lying to a Grand Jury.
Revisit the Grand Jury Report here :
http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF
After reading this, come to your own conclusions about Paterno and all involved at Penn State.
Shameful, simply shameful and a stain on all those involved.

[Dahoss9698]

You say that, in your opinion, Paterno wasn't mentally or emotionally capable of making the right decision in a situation such as this.

Since we are making assumptions...here is one of my own:

If the child-rapist's name isn't "Sandusky"...Paterno nails him to the cross.

We'll agree to disagree, but as usual, I certainly respect your opinion.

[thaskalos]

We'll agree to disagree, but as usual, I certainly respect your opinion.
The feeling is mutual. :ThmbUp:

[mountainman]

It takes less energy, awareness, and resolve to act morally, and decisively, in that situation than it does to coach a major Division I football team.

By a mile. Or many miles.

That, of course, would depend on how much of the coaching was delegated to assistants. And his comfort level with football might have in no way carried over to an unfamiliar test of his morality. Totally different situations. Just an opinion, but from watching him in action and interviews for decades, some senility had set in by that point.

[mountainman]

Also, I think that it is reasonable to suppose that he told the two administration members and didn't follow up with them because he did not want to know that what was told to him by the assistant was true.

Why is it reasonable to suppose that? Lots of reasonable people think his agenda was to keep it in house-and not at all motivated by his take on Sandusky's guilt or innocence. And other plausible theories on Paterno's mindset have been proposed.

[thaskalos]

That, of course, would depend on how much of the coaching was delegated to assistants. And his comfort level with football might have in no way carried over to an unfamiliar test of his morality. Totally different situations. Just an opinion, but from watching him in action and interviews for decades, some senility had set in by that point.
Mountainman, let's say that you are right...and Paterno was borderline senile.

What's the President's and the AD's excuse...who testified that they thought Sandusky was "just horsing around" while naked in the showers with the 10-year old?

Were they senile too?

Doesn't it seem like a cover-up was taking place?

[mountainman]

Mountainman, let's say that you are right...and Paterno was borderline senile.

What's the President's and the AD's excuse...who testified that they thought Sandusky was "just horsing around" while naked in the showers with the 10-year old?

Were they senile too?

Doesn't it seem like a cover-up was taking place?

No excuse at all for them. And I could be wrong about Paterno's mental acuity, in which case his passive approach might imply some sinister attempt to protect the program. Unless the man was too naive and immersed in football to even conceive of sodomy-a theory some have actually proposed.

At any rate, I think more info is to come, and it won't reflect well on Paterno or his nominal superiors.

[proximity]

the only real power joe pa had at that time was the only power he wanted: the power to stay on as coach for as long as he wanted (forever) which was only his because the public would have crushed the villain(s) who fired him.

imo he wasn't senile, but neither was he some sinister force who cared about protecting the long gone jerry sandusky.

[Cardus]

Why is it reasonable to suppose that? Lots of reasonable people think his agenda was to keep it in house-and not at all motivated by his take on Sandusky's guilt or innocence. And other plausible theories on Paterno's mindset have been proposed.

It is reasonable to suppose what I proposed because Paterno knew Sandusky for many, many years, and that Paterno -- being synonymous with Penn State football -- did not want to confront something that might put his program in a negative light. These factors make it "reasonable to suppose."

I did not state that my theory was correct, but that it was reasonable to consider.