TVG's Position on NYRA Overcharge of Takeout

[Ocala Mike]

I received a phone call from someone in Customer Service at TVG a few minutes ago regarding what they plan to do to remediate the shortchanging of customers who "cashed" exotic and superexotic wagers with them during the NYRA takeout overcharge fiasco. Short answer = ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I only had a little less than $1,000 in affected cashings with them during the period, and the guy on the phone told me TO THE PENNY how much I had lost (less than $!0), but made it very clear to me that TVG was not going to make me whole. They laid the whole thing back on NYRA's doorstep and indicated that NYRA would be reducing the take to 24%, and that is the only corrective action that I could expect.

I suggested that they could at least use their "Wager Rewards" program to accomplish some sort of equity here, but the guy I talked to said they had no plans to do so.

Guess I'm switching to Twin Spires from now on.


Ocala Mike

[Brogan]

Why would you expect TVG to compensate you for NYRA's error?

The blame lies squarely at the feet of NYRA.

[Ocala Mike]

Blame, yes; the "windfall" profits are largely in the coffers of the ADW's, however.

I am somewhat familiar with settlement procedures between ADW's and host tracks, having worked in the industry. Most of the total $8 million in underpayments to the public did not accrue to NYRA.


Ocala Mike

[Tom]

You are lucky TWO of the morons there didn't call you. the usually roam in packs! :D

[Dahoss9698]

Why would you expect TVG to compensate you for NYRA's error?

The blame lies squarely at the feet of NYRA.

I don't understand this. TVG (and other ADW's) received the extra money due to the error. Why should they not have to repay money that they received by error?

[Ocala Mike]

Who's going to make them? The NYSR&WB can direct NYRA to take certain actions, but has no jurisdiction on this vis a vis the ADW's. Ideally, some entity like the NTRA (LOL!) would have such jurisdiction.

Meanwhile, it's probably going to be chalked up as another "screw the horseplayer" event, and certainly not the first one to affect me.


Ocala Mike

[takeout]

I suggested that they could at least use their "Wager Rewards" program to accomplish some sort of equity here, but the guy I talked to said they had no plans to do so.TVG’s customers should be leaving in droves. :mad:

[mannyberrios]

You are lucky TWO of the morons there didn't call you. the usually roam in packs! :D
Two is a crowd, three is a pack!

[Ocala Mike]

In the interests of full disclosure, I can now report that the same guy with TVG called me late this afternoon to inform me that I was to receive Wager Reward points in an amount sufficient to compensate me for the amount I was shortchanged. The guy made it clear to me that this was a "courtesy" action only, because they didn't want to lose me as a customer.

Sounds like a case of the squeaky wheel (me) getting the oil.


Ocala Mike

[Rapid Grey]

Any word about what Twinspires will do with their account holders who reside outside the state of New York?

[classhandicapper]

Does anyone know if any of the ADWs adjusted their rebate schedule when the track take was initially raised?

That's a complication that was raised. If they did, there may not have been much of a windfall profit for the ADWs. It would be more like a transfer from some players to others.

This inaction doesn't shock me though. I predicted this in the previous thread.

If the ADWs had to make good on this, it would mean they have to keep track of the rules in every state and then watch the actions of every racetrack to make sure they are compliant with those rules because if any of them makes an error, it could potentially come back to bite them in the ass for many millions and even bankrupt them.

No one is going to run their ADW like that.

They have to operate on the assumption that the tracks are being compliant and audited properly. If one of them screws up, it's on the track unless it's such a big screw up, the track can't pay and goes bankrupt. Then the ADW becomes a creditor of the bankrupt track.

IMO the only possibility of the ADWs paying was a goodwill gesture accompanied by an agreement with customers and tracks that they will never be responsible again.

[takeout]

The guy made it clear to me that this was a "courtesy" action only,A "courtesy action” only, eh? Unfriggin believable. What a BS outfit. I’d leave skid marks getting out of there.

[Dahoss9698]

For the record, Capitalotb has agreed to reimburse the players who bet through them that were impacted by this. The information on how to do it is on their website. Good thing NYCOTB is long gone because I would imagine their reaction would have been the opposite.

If your individual ADW isn't going to reimburse you, I would suggest making a stink. If they still don't, find another one.

[cj]

Does anyone know if any of the ADWs adjusted their rebate schedule when the track take was initially raised?



Without knowing for a fact that any have, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say with 100% certainty that rebate schedules were adjusted. That is how the game is played.

[classhandicapper]

For the record, Capitalotb has agreed to reimburse the players who bet through them that were impacted by this. The information on how to do it is on their website. Good thing NYCOTB is long gone because I would imagine their reaction would have been the opposite.

If your individual ADW isn't going to reimburse you, I would suggest making a stink. If they still don't, find another one.

The New York OTBs are in a different position than the private ADWs.

First, the OTBs are not "for profit" private entities.

Second, the NY OTBs are all also in NY like NYRA.

Most of what the OTBs pay back will probably come out of pocket of the NY state, local governments, NYRA etc.. that were all at least partially responsible for the screw up because NYRA wasn't audited properly.

The OTBs may have even been directed to pay the money back by whoever above them has to the power to do so. Nassau and Suffolk OTB are also both paying it back (as I assume NYCOTB would if it still existed).

A more interesting question is what the NY OTBs, NYRA, and NY State would have done if it was SA, DMR, and HOL that screwed up and their cash flows were about to take a sudden unexpected hit because someone else made an error?

[Dahoss9698]

The New York OTBs are in a different position than the private ADWs.

First, the OTBs are not "for profit" private entities.

Second, the NY OTBs are all also in NY like NYRA.

Most of what the OTBs pay back will probably come out of pocket of the NY state, local governments, NYRA etc.. that were all at least partially responsible for the screw up because NYRA wasn't audited properly.

The OTBs may have even been directed to pay the money back by whoever above them has to the power to do so. Nassau and Suffolk OTB are also both paying it back (as I assume NYCOTB would if it still existed).

A more interesting question is what the NY OTBs, NYRA, and NY State would have done if it was SA, DMR, and HOL that screwed up and their cash flows were about to take a sudden unexpected hit because someone else made an error?

As usual, I already know all of this.

[classhandicapper]

Without knowing for a fact that any have, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say with 100% certainty that rebate schedules were adjusted. That is how the game is played.

If so, then there probably wasn't a huge windfall. It was more of a wealth transfer from some players to others and some players to themselves in a different way. IMO there is a 0% probability that the ADWs would or should take a loss on someone else's error.

[classhandicapper]

As usual, I already know all of this.

Then why single out Capitol or suggest that NYC OTB wouldn't have done the same thing when all the other state OTBs are apparently doing the same thing despite being in horrific financial condition.

Perhaps a case can be made that you are always better off using the OTBs and NYRA over a private ADW because it's more likely the taxpayer will get stuck holding the bag than a private entity could/would be willing to pay for someone else's mistake.

[Dahoss9698]

Then why single out Capitol or suggest that NYC OTB wouldn't have done the same thing when all the other state OTBs are apparently doing the same thing despite being in horrific financial condition.

Perhaps a case can be made that you are always better off using the OTBs and NYRA over a private ADW because it's more likely the taxpayer will get stuck holding the bag than a private entity could/would be willing to pay for someone else's mistake.

I didn't single out Capital. I was letting people know here who might have used them and were unaware.

You're the only person I have ever seen who defends NYCOTB. Wear that with pride.

[aaron]

Without knowing for a fact that any have, I would be willing to go out on a limb and say with 100% certainty that rebate schedules were adjusted. That is how the game is played.
I know that at least one ADW adjusted its rate rebate rate when NYRA lowered their rate.I would assume others also lowered their rate on the rebates,but I don't know for sure.

[classhandicapper]

I didn't single out Capital. I was letting people know here who might have used them and were unaware.

You're the only person I have ever seen who defends NYCOTB. Wear that with pride.

I do my best to find the middle and truth on all issues.

[Mr_Ed]

You are lucky TWO of the morons there didn't call you. the usually roam in packs! :D

He's not off the hook yet.

The Nigerian email promising to triple your money back can't be far behind.








:D