Aqueduct Update

[andtheyreoff]

After three weeks of casino-increased purses, here's where Aqueduct stands.

Through 16 days of racing starting with December 28, Aqueduct has had 1,326 entrants, an average of 83 per race day. $6,601,000 has been given away in purse money, an average of $412,563 per day. And total handle has been $97,294,088, an average of $6,075,256.

By contrast, over the same period last year, 1,183 were entered for 15 days of racing, an average of 79 per day. Purse money was $4,062,000, an average of $270,800, while handle was $89,198,870, an average of $5,946,591 per day.

So in a nutshell, entrants have increased by 12%, purses by 62.5%, and handle by 9%. Not bad so far.

[lamboguy]

from where i sit, that's real good news.

[Dahoss9698]

After three weeks of casino-increased purses, here's where Aqueduct stands.

Through 16 days of racing starting with December 28, Aqueduct has had 1,326 entrants, an average of 83 per race day. $6,601,000 has been given away in purse money, an average of $412,563 per day. And total handle has been $97,294,088, an average of $6,075,256.

By contrast, over the same period last year, 1,183 were entered for 15 days of racing, an average of 79 per day. Purse money was $4,062,000, an average of $270,800, while handle was $89,198,870, an average of $5,946,591 per day.

So in a nutshell, entrants have increased by 12%, purses by 62.5%, and handle by 9%. Not bad so far.

So far so good.

If the trend continues we should see some great racing over the next few months heading into the summer.

[OTM Al]

So far so good.

If the trend continues we should see some great racing over the next few months heading into the summer.

I'm looking forward to a legitimate TC trail that goes through NY. We should have real tentpole days for the Withers in February and Gotham in March to develop over the next few years I hope.

[jelly]

Last year avg.Handle per day- $6,075,256.

Last year avg. purses per day- $412,563.


This year avg handle per day- $5,946,591.

This year avg. purses per day- $270,800.



Thay have increased the purses by $141,763 a day and have gotten back $128 659 in return.



Is this really good news?Is this the best way to spend slot money?

[Dahoss9698]

Like a moth to flame.

[cj]

I'm looking forward to a legitimate TC trail that goes through NY. We should have real tentpole days for the Withers in February and Gotham in March to develop over the next few years I hope.

I'm looking forward to the day New York shafts the BC and writes better races on the same day.

[Robert Goren]

After three weeks of casino-increased purses, here's where Aqueduct stands.

Through 16 days of racing starting with December 28, Aqueduct has had 1,326 entrants, an average of 83 per race day. $6,601,000 has been given away in purse money, an average of $412,563 per day. And total handle has been $97,294,088, an average of $6,075,256.

By contrast, over the same period last year, 1,183 were entered for 15 days of racing, an average of 79 per day. Purse money was $4,062,000, an average of $270,800, while handle was $89,198,870, an average of $5,946,591 per day.

So in a nutshell, entrants have increased by 12%, purses by 62.5%, and handle by 9%. Not bad so far. From a business point of view, the 62.5% increase in purses produces only 9% in handle is not exactly cost effective. In order for this to be cost effect, the handle should increase by more than purses. It is early, but to me, these numbers are not all that promising.

[cj]

From a business point of view, the 62.5% increase in purses produces only 9% in handle is not exactly cost effective. In order for this to be cost effect, the handle should increase by more than purses. It is early, but to me, these numbers are not all that promising.

Its been a few weeks.

[Dahoss9698]

From a business point of view, the 62.5% increase in purses produces only 9% in handle is not exactly cost effective. In order for this to be cost effect, the handle should increase by more than purses. It is early, but to me, these numbers are not all that promising.

Well part of the problem is you don't look at anything as promising. Change the record already.
You have to look at the big picture. It's the winter in NY in the middle of January. Any increase is just bonus because when all of the trainers come back from Florida, as well as others from other tracks, the spring Belmont and Saratoga Meet is going to be huge.

Field size will be up, which will almost guarantee better betting opportunities.

[Robert Goren]

Well part of the problem is you don't look at anything as promising. Change the record already.
You have to look at the big picture. It's the winter in NY in the middle of January. Any increase is just bonus because when all of the trainers come back from Florida, as well as others from other tracks, the spring Belmont and Saratoga Meet is going to be huge.

Field size will be up, which will almost guarantee better betting opportunities. Of course it is good for the horsemen and yes, it will produce larger fields and that might produce some better betting opportunities. But will increase the handle at same rate as the purses increases. I don't think it will. I don't think it will be even close. What is wrong with looking at the bottom line. In horses racing that means purse costs and handle.
Are you saying that the % increase in handle for Belmont and Saratoga will be higher than % increase purses? Just want to get you on record so we can revisit this issue next summer.

[Dahoss9698]

Of course it is good for the horsemen and yes, it will produce larger fields and that might produce some better betting opportunities. But will increase the handle at same rate as the purses increases. I don't think it will. I don't think it will be even close. What is wrong with looking at the bottom line. In horses racing that means purse costs and handle.

So if purses are increased by 60%...the only way you will view this as a success is if handle also increases 60%? It's pretty much impossible. Where is all of this betting money going to come from?

Handle will be increased...I think that is a foregone conclusion, which means more people betting. But the number you are looking for is unrealistic. The purses are going to attract larger fields, which gives bettors, real bettors much better opportunities.

And the best part about it, is it isn't just a one time deal. This is how it's going to be in NY. I think this is the beginning of some really great stuff in NY Racing.

It's not going to happen overnight, but I can't wait to look at these threads next year to compare the numbers.

[Dahoss9698]

Are you saying that the % increase in handle for Belmont and Saratoga will be higher than % increase purses? Just want to get you on record so we can revisit this issue next summer.

How would it be possible for those kind of increases? Come on man. Use your head a little bit here.

[mannyberrios]

Of course it is good for the horsemen and yes, it will produce larger fields and that might produce some better betting opportunities. But will increase the handle at same rate as the purses increases. I don't think it will. I don't think it will be even close. What is wrong with looking at the bottom line. In horses racing that means purse costs and handle.
Are you saying that the % increase in handle for Belmont and Saratoga will be higher than % increase purses? Just want to get you on record so we can revisit this issue next summer.Go play poker with yourself

[gm10]

Of course it is good for the horsemen and yes, it will produce larger fields and that might produce some better betting opportunities. But will increase the handle at same rate as the purses increases. I don't think it will. I don't think it will be even close. What is wrong with looking at the bottom line. In horses racing that means purse costs and handle.
Are you saying that the % increase in handle for Belmont and Saratoga will be higher than % increase purses? Just want to get you on record so we can revisit this issue next summer.

The bottom line will mostly be driven by how the casino performs imo.

[Spiderman]

I've reviewed the cards for Jan 19-21. IMHO, there is no improvement in bettable races.

[aaron]

How did this turn into a negative thread ?
I agree with CJ.It would be great to see NYRA challenge the Breeders Cup with races of their own.

[Spiderman]

What is negative about a bettor's perspective on the quality of racing? I may not make the same statement, or no statement at all, next week.

[NTamm1215]

From a business point of view, the 62.5% increase in purses produces only 9% in handle is not exactly cost effective. In order for this to be cost effect, the handle should increase by more than purses. It is early, but to me, these numbers are not all that promising.

I'm curious and perhaps you'll humor me. You throw a wet blanket over everything. No matter the topic, you are the guy there to play Debbie Downer.

Then, in a recent thread, you posted that racing should "get with the 21st Century" and enable ADWs to use Direct Deposit. ADWs have been using ACH transactions for deposits and withdrawals for 10 years. That begged the question, do you wager on racing? Do your innumerable complaints with the industry preclude you from wagering?

[Robert Goren]

I'm curious and perhaps you'll humor me. You throw a wet blanket over everything. No matter the topic, you are the guy there to play Debbie Downer.

Then, in a recent thread, you posted that racing should "get with the 21st Century" and enable ADWs to use Direct Deposit. ADWs have been using ACH transactions for deposits and withdrawals for 10 years. That begged the question, do you wager on racing? Do your innumerable complaints with the industry preclude you from wagering? But when you go out to track can you? I do bet races, but I am very picky about the races I bet and I don't wager very much when I do because I know the odds are against me. How much do wager into those pools where they keep $1 out of every 5 you bet. Do you really think everybody is such a sucker that they are going to do that in large volumes just because just because the purses are 65% higher and they thrown in another 20/1 shot in to each race? If you do, you have a lot lower opinion of the intelligence of the general public than I do.

[MickJ26]

To see McPeek, Kenneally and Romans running horses over the Inner Track speaks volumes to me. These horses would normally be in Florida or Louisiana right now. To me, it's not necessarily field size that's better, it's the quality of horses.

[Dahoss9698]

To see McPeek, Kenneally and Romans running horses over the Inner Track speaks volumes to me. These horses would normally be in Florida or Louisiana right now. To me, it's not necessarily field size that's better, it's the quality of horses.

Well said.

[turninforhome10]

How does the increase in sales tax collection from the brisk claiming factor in?

[David-LV]

But when you go out to track can you? I do bet races, but I am very picky about the races I bet and I don't wager very much when I do because I know the odds are against me. How much do wager into those pools where they keep $1 out of every 5 you bet. Do you really think everybody is such a sucker that they are going to do that in large volumes just because just because the purses are 65% higher and they thrown in another 20/1 shot in to each race? If you do, you have a lot lower opinion of the intelligence of the general public than I do.

A very strange answer to a very direct question ???????

________
David-LV

[Robert Goren]

A very strange answer to a very direct question ???????

________
David-LV I kind of of mesh my answers to several questions together and I am sorry if you got confused.
1)I do bet the ponies, but as often as I use to and not in the amounts I used to.
2) I do not think the general public will bet more a lot more money than it does because the purses are higher and there is one more 20/1 horse in the race. I do not think they are that easily fooled. Apparently some of you do.
3)Do tracks, not just ADWs, do ACH transactions? The one here in Lincoln does not. Although they have an ATM for withdrawals for a fee.
4) How much do you, NTamm do you wager in those pools with a 20% takeout without a rebate? If you get a rebate, would you wager if you could you wager if you didn't get a rebate?
5) Remember that most people who wager on track do not get a rebate or at a simulcast center do not get a rebate.
6) Anybody can responed to to #4. I am interested to see how many posters who are so gunho about these higher purses would actually bet large amounts of money without a rebate. And yes, I know rebates are smaller on NYRA tracks.

[breeze]

To see McPeek, Kenneally and Romans running horses over the Inner Track speaks volumes to me. These horses would normally be in Florida or Louisiana right now. To me, it's not necessarily field size that's better, it's the quality of horses.

exactly and more will stay up north next winter

[Robert Goren]

To see McPeek, Kenneally and Romans running horses over the Inner Track speaks volumes to me. These horses would normally be in Florida or Louisiana right now. To me, it's not necessarily field size that's better, it's the quality of horses. Exactly how much more are you betting because of these better horses? Are You betting less someplace else because those horses aren't there? Is your overall wagering up? Isn't this a zero sum game?

[MickJ26]

Exactly how much more are you betting because of these better horses? Are You betting less someplace else because those horses aren't there? Is your overall wagering up? Isn't this a zero sum game?


NYRA is my home circuit, so I'd be playing Aqueduct regardless. The determining factor of what races I play are quality of horses over field size. My wagering budget in past years would've included Fair Grounds and Oaklawn. Now it's basically just Aqueduct, Gulfstream and Santa Anita.

[Fastracehorse]

To see McPeek, Kenneally and Romans running horses over the Inner Track speaks volumes to me. These horses would normally be in Florida or Louisiana right now. To me, it's not necessarily field size that's better, it's the quality of horses.

Purses at Woodbine sky-rocketed due to their casino padding of purses - horsemen make money finishing 4th now - so there is less desperation for the win

better purses stimulates breeding and shippers - providing richer fields - so it is great

the most interesting aspect of Wdb racing is they don't kindly tolerate the high % type of trainers - they r there but they r shy about it - Wdb has a detention barn which has housed famous names


fffastt

[classhandicapper]

Essentially, so far the extra casino money is subsidizing owners and giving bettors more competitive races to wager on, but is not being used well from a business perspective.

[OTM Al]

Essentially, so far the extra casino money is subsidizing owners and giving bettors more competitive races to wager on, but is not being used well from a business perspective.

Considering the business did not make that decision, that statement is generally correct.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

Essentially, so far the extra casino money is subsidizing owners and giving bettors more competitive races to wager on, but is not being used well from a business perspective.
It is good for jobs (especially the backstretch economy). It is a subsidy, and should be looked upon as a subsidy.

Studies have shown that if you double purses all things being equal, handle only increases 6%.

Factors that increase handle much more are takeout and field size.

Bigger purses, in theory, should help with field size though.

[thespaah]

from where i sit, that's real good news.
Goren will add something negative..I haven't scrolled past your post yet..So let's see.

[thespaah]

I'm looking forward to the day New York shafts the BC and writes better races on the same day.
Idea!!!!
Kudos..
IMO the existence of the BC has created a graded race nightmare.
There are too many graded races contested on nearly the same weekends for the same type( Sex/Age)...
As there are far too many college bowl games so there are too many graded stakes and handicaps.

[thespaah]

Of course it is good for the horsemen and yes, it will produce larger fields and that might produce some better betting opportunities. But will increase the handle at same rate as the purses increases. I don't think it will. I don't think it will be even close. What is wrong with looking at the bottom line. In horses racing that means purse costs and handle.
Are you saying that the % increase in handle for Belmont and Saratoga will be higher than % increase purses? Just want to get you on record so we can revisit this issue next summer.
Dude, it is the DEAD OF WINTER...

[thespaah]

But when you go out to track can you? I do bet races, but I am very picky about the races I bet and I don't wager very much when I do because I know the odds are against me. How much do wager into those pools where they keep $1 out of every 5 you bet. Do you really think everybody is such a sucker that they are going to do that in large volumes just because just because the purses are 65% higher and they thrown in another 20/1 shot in to each race? If you do, you have a lot lower opinion of the intelligence of the general public than I do.
Why bother then? Why are you here?
In every thread you have something negative to post.
If the sport is so miserable for you, get out and stay out.
Quite frankly your constant negativity and carping is getting old.

[FantasticDan]

Thoroughbred Times article about the purse pump:

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2012/01/21/plenty-to-be-happy-about-in-new-york-besides-nfl-football.aspx

[ronsmac]

Why bother then? Why are you here?
In every thread you have something negative to post.
If the sport is so miserable for you, get out and stay out.
Quite frankly your constant negativity and carping is getting old.
You are spot on. That guy is the most negative person in the free world.

[mannyberrios]

Why bother then? Why are you here?
In every thread you have something negative to post.
If the sport is so miserable for you, get out and stay out.
Quite frankly your constant negativity and carping is getting old.He should try poker