I need some advice

[Handiman]

Hey guys,

Need your help. I have a couple of projects that I am in the middle of at present. While working on them a concern which I have had for a long time has raised it's head again and so I would like some input.

I have quite a few handicapping books, periodicals, software and the alike. I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge from all of them. Each and everyone of them are copyrighted.

Here's my quandry: When writing software, what are the limits as to using that knowledge, which often entails math formulas and directions on how to use and manipulate data.

I know that you can't take a piece of copyrighted material and reproduce it and sell it or even give it away.

But when that material teaches you something and then you use that knowledge to produce your own work...... where does that put you in relation to copyrighted material?

Thanks,
Handi:)

[jasperson]

Hey guys,

Need your help. I have a couple of projects that I am in the middle of at present. While working on them a concern which I have had for a long time has raised it's head again and so I would like some input.

I have quite a few handicapping books, periodicals, software and the alike. I have gained a tremendous amount of knowledge from all of them. Each and everyone of them are copyrighted.

Here's my quandry: When writing software, what are the limits as to using that knowledge, which often entails math formulas and directions on how to use and manipulate data.

I know that you can't take a piece of copyrighted material and reproduce it and sell it or even give it away.

But when that material teaches you something and then you use that knowledge to produce your own work...... where does that put you in relation to copyrighted material?

Thanks,
Handi:)
I am not a copywrite attorney,but I dont think you have anything to worry about. Almost everybody on this list has used some information acquired from a handicapping book.

[Jeff P]

Handi,

If you pop open a DRF and start circling things that catch your eye, and do it for thousands of races, and then go back and analyze everything you circled - you might realize that you've circled data points that represent a few thousand different handicapping factors.

If you start analyzing all of those different handicapping factors, it might dawn on you that all of them can be categorized into 12 or so different general areas (or handicapping schools of thought.)

The following list is by no means exhaustive, but IMHO does cover most aspects of the game:

Early speed, late speed, class, ability from speed figs, form, breeding, abilities of the horse's human connections, track profile, surface, distance, race chaos, and maybe a rating as to how the public is likely to bet (or misbet) the current race and/or horses having various combinations of the above named attributes.

In most of the handicapping books I've read, the author covers the above handicapping schools of thought (sometimes in a unique way.) The author may publish specific formulas that produce specific ratings.

My advice (if you want it) would be to avoid replicating exact formulas from copyrighted material. Instead, devise your own. While specific formulas for generating an early pace rating can be copyrighted - early pace itself is a concept that exists in the public domain - which can never be copyrighted.

If you do your own R&D and analyze each of the above areas - you just might discover that you have the ability to devise your own unique ways of handling each area - and because you are doing it in a unique way - your way of handling an area (if you have done your R&D) is likely to be better (roi-wise) than the author's treatment for that area.

From there, code your own treatment of that area into your program.

If you do your own work you will never have to worry about copyright infringement.


-jp

.

[JustRalph]

I know a programmer with a very good racing program that was using some info in his program that he learned from a noted horse racing author. One day the phone rang and they came to an agreement over crediting the original author.

[Handiman]

Jeff,

I understand exactly what you are saying. Interesting that you would post in this thread. As many know I switched to your jCapper files two months ago. I have covered the data file structure with a fine tooth comb. I have actually been able to combine a few factors in such a way that I am getting 2 out of three of the top 3 finishers in my top 5 contenders.

The winner is in that top 5 over 90% right now and then I also get the place horse or the show horse along with it. And many times I have all 3.

One of the projects I am writing right now looks for spot plays and based on filters the program lists an A play or a AA play or a AAA play. I am also including two buttons that will launch either 'Bet Magic' or 'The Dutchman' depending on which button you click.

It's early right now, but in testing the A play across all tracks is showing a nice profit. Still have testing to do on AA and AAA plays. I'm trying to get this done before Dave comes out with his new book. I plan on delving into it quite deeply also.

I'm still not clear as to the answer to my question, but you guys have helped.

Thanks,
Handi:)

[ranchwest]

Copyrights cover specific material, not concepts.

However, if you have concerns you should investigate those concerns thoroughly.

While having legal remedies over copyright infringement is generally difficult, keep in mind that, as one person informed me, ours is a litigious society. You always run the risk of having to legally defend yourself, even if you have done nothing wrong.

[turninforhome10]

Us Code found at http://www.copyright.gov/title17/
§102 · Subject matter of copyright: In general28
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original
works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known
or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise
communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of
authorship include the following categories:
(1) literary works;
(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;
(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;
(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;
(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;
(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;
(7) sound recordings; and
(8) architectural works.
(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship
extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept,
principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained,
illustrated, or embodied in such work

[pondman]

I know a programmer with a very good racing program that was using some info in his program that he learned from a noted horse racing author. One day the phone rang and they came to an agreement over crediting the original author.

Unless the programmer actually reproduced code or written instructions, and violated terms of use, he owed nothing to the author.

However, there may have been other property right issues.

[Handiman]

Thanks Turn I really appreciate the info.

Handi:)