Jorge Posada - HOF?

[lsbets]

Posada is supposedly retiring (he should). I was surprised to read a couple of articles making a case for him going into the Hall. His career was very good, but I wouldn't think great. Maybe the best argument I saw is that he could get in because so many players with better numbers were tainted by roids and he had a solid career and kept clean. His offensive numbers compare favorably to catchers already in, but he was more of a liability than an asset defensively. I still can't wrap my arms around him going into the hall though. Does he really have a shot at it?

[OTM Al]

I think even after watching his whole career I'd say no, but not by a lot. Plenty of credentials, including catching for 4 championship teams (wasn't really a big part on the 1996 team, that was Leyritz and Girardi, though was up a bit that year and the year before), switch hitter with power, and caught a perfect game, and Derek Jeter's best pal. His defense wasn't great. He had trouble blocking the plate after suffering a severe injury doing so in the minors, but he did actually improve over his career. Horrendous baserunner. Solid and important piece of several very good teams, but HoF is an individual award and there I think he is a bit short. However, he may well have been the best at his position all around during his time after you discount Ivan Rodriguez, so that could be enough.

[lsbets]

Piazza was better too.

[PhantomOnTour]

Not a Hall Of Famer, but a very good player.

[RaceBookJoe]

Not a Hall Of Famer, but a very good player.

I agree, I am a Yankee fan but still dont think he belongs in the HoF. rbj

[Casino]

If you ask the question....,then hes not.

[tzipi]

At sometime....yes why not?

Ray Shalk is in the HOF.
Avg .252
Hts 1345
HR 11
RBI 310

Gabby Hartnett
AVG .297
Hts 1912
HR 236
RBI 1179

Posada
AVG .276
Hts 1664
HR 275
RBI 1065

Point being there's a ton of guys with non HOF numbers in there. Posada has decent numbers, 5 time All Star and 4 WS championships. Greatest catcher and numbers catcher of all time? No. But don't see why he can't make the HOF on their standards.

[Casino]

At sometime....yes why not?

Ray Shalk is in the HOF.
Avg .252
Hts 1345
HR 11
RBI 310

Gabby Hartnett
AVG .297
Hts 1912
HR 236
RBI 1179

Posada
AVG .276
Hts 1664
HR 275
RBI 1065

Point being there's a ton of guys with non HOF numbers in there. Posada has decent numbers, 5 time All Star and 4 WS championships. Greatest catcher and numbers catcher of all time? No. But don't see why he can't make the HOF on their standards.

If those guys had to be re voted they wouldnt a get a sniff.

[OTM Al]

If those guys had to be re voted they wouldnt a get a sniff.

Sure they would. The game changes. The numbers from the teens and twenties can't be compared to current players. At the time, these were extremely good players.

[Casino]

Sure they would. The game changes. The numbers from the teens and twenties can't be compared to current players. At the time, these were extremely good players.

There in the hall but not Dale Murphy.:bang:

[tzipi]

Sure they would. The game changes. The numbers from the teens and twenties can't be compared to current players. At the time, these were extremely good players.

Schalk would be revoted in again today over guys with huge numbers over him?
Schalks time had nothing to do with it. Thats a bit off. There was a ton of guys with a better numbers than Schalks who are not HOF .250 ag 11 HR and 300 RBI's were not even close to good numbers for his era.

Other guys from later on with worse HOF.
Pee Wee Reese
Avg .269
HRS 126
RBI 885

Roger Bresnahan
Avg .279
Hts 1251
HR 26
RBI 530

Mazeroski is in with 260 average, 138 HRs and 853 RBI
Lou Aparacio is in with .262 avg 83 HR and 791 RBI's

There's a ton of guys with horrible numbers in the HOF. That was just my point. Again, Posada not great killer but how can his numbers be far off from the HOF.

[cj's dad]

Barry Larkin just voted in today. R U kidding me. Averaged 10 HR's and 50 RBI's in 19 seasons.

[thaskalos]

Barry Larkin just voted in today. R U kidding me. Averaged 10 HR's and 50 RBI's in 19 seasons.
You beat me to it...

IMO...the HOF is rapidly losing all significance; in ALL the sports!

[Casino]

Phil Rizzuto in the HOF are you kidding :bang: :bang:

[Rookies]

No. Of all those present day players, Jeter & Mariano...

STOP.

[tzipi]

You beat me to it...

IMO...the HOF is rapidly losing all significance; in ALL the sports!

I agree :ThmbUp:

[lsbets]

Next years vote should be interesting. Bonds and Clemens, I think both don't get in.

[Valuist]

Next years vote should be interesting. Bonds and Clemens, I think both don't get in.

Both will eventually get in. I do believe Bonds had a legit HoF career before 1999, when he appeared to start getting extra "help". The line is blurrier with Clemens. I'm sure he had some steroid free years as well; just not as easy to decipher when he started juicing.

[lsbets]

Both will eventually get in. I do believe Bonds had a legit HoF career before 1999, when he appeared to start getting extra "help". The line is blurrier with Clemens. I'm sure he had some steroid free years as well; just not as easy to decipher when he started juicing.

I think he started in Toronto. So the question would be, is he hall worthy based on just Boston?

[lsbets]

It will be interesting. I agree that Bonds and Clemens will get in, but they will probably have to wait a few years.

With the other first timers, I think Biggio and Piazza get in first ballot. Sosa falls into the McGuirre category and doesn't get in. Schilling is real borderline, not worthy to me. The next year Maddox is an obvious first ballot pick.

[Valuist]

It will be interesting. I agree that Bonds and Clemens will get in, but they will probably have to wait a few years.

With the other first timers, I think Biggio and Piazza get in first ballot. Sosa falls into the McGuirre category and doesn't get in. Schilling is real borderline, not worthy to me. The next year Maddox is an obvious first ballot pick.

I thought Piazza tested positive for PEDs. If so, he definitely won't go in first ballot.

[Robert Goren]

Posada gets in on his second or third try. He is an easy choice.

[lsbets]

I thought Piazza tested positive for PEDs. If so, he definitely won't go in first ballot.

No. I think he was mentioned in a story once, but no positives, and nothing that implicated him like the other guys. I think he gets in first shot.

[Pace Cap'n]

Posada shouldn't even be in the Yankees HOF...consider: Bill Dickey, Elston Howard, Yogi Berra, Thurman Munson, and.........Posada???

[tzipi]

Posada shouldn't even be in the Yankees HOF...consider: Bill Dickey, Elston Howard, Yogi Berra, Thurman Munson, and.........Posada???


Doesn't even belong in Yankee HOF??

So Howard you're good with (Age 26 to 39)
Avg- .274
HR- 167
Hits- 1471
RBI- 762
6 WS championships

But Posada has no buisness being there??? (Age 25 to 39)
Avg- .276
HR- 275
Hits- 1664
RBI- 1065
4 WS Championships

Just don't understand some of the backlash against Posada? If he doesn't belong in certain circles, than some of these others surely don't belong IMO.

[Robert Fischer]

HOF = NO

NYY HOF = YES

[andtheyreoff]

He got 17 votes on his first try on the ballot, which knocks him out of future BBWAA consideration.

That sounds right. While a very good player, he's not HOF-worthy in my eyes, and if he wasn't a Yankee, he may not have gotten as many votes as he did.

[EasyGoer89]

He got 17 votes on his first try on the ballot, which knocks him out of future BBWAA consideration.

That sounds right. While a very good player, he's not HOF-worthy in my eyes, and if he wasn't a Yankee, he may not have gotten as many votes as he did.

Can't you make the case though that because he was surrounded by Rivera, Jeter and other high level players that he stood out the wrong way by comparison? If he played in Milwaukee or San Diego with the exact same stats (not counting rings) and was the best player on those teams for 17 years I think he would have gotten at least as many votes, getting overshadowed in NY could have hurt him.

[EasyGoer89]

HOF = NO

NYY HOF = YES

Gary carter is in, isn't posada at least comparable?

[kingfin66]

Gary carter is in, isn't posada at least comparable?

I think that he compares favorably as an offensive player, but not so much defensively.

Carter

AS - 11
GG - 3
SS - 6
MVP - 0 (finished 2nd in 1980)

Posada

AS - 5
GG - 0
SS - 5
MVP - 0 (finished 3rd in 2003)

I think that Carter was overall a much better catcher and player, but Posada was definitely a good hitter. I would have seen Posada as a guy that gradually continued garnering more votes as the years went on, maybe getting in and maybe not getting in. It is surprising to me that he received so few.

This year's voting aside, I believe that the HOF has historically done a poor job of inducting players. Just my opinion.

[EasyGoer89]

I think that he compares favorably as an offensive player, but not so much defensively.

Carter

AS - 11
GG - 3
SS - 6
MVP - 0 (finished 2nd in 1980)

Posada

AS - 5
GG - 0
SS - 5
MVP - 0 (finished 3rd in 2003)

I think that Carter was overall a much better catcher and player, but Posada was definitely a good hitter. I would have seen Posada as a guy that gradually continued garnering more votes as the years went on, maybe getting in and maybe not getting in. It is surprising to me that he received so few.

This year's voting aside, I believe that the HOF has historically done a poor job of inducting players. Just my opinion.

I guess the question is this, does his hitting and being a reliable catcher for championship teams outweigh his lack if defensive excellence? I've seen a LOT of Posadas lifetime games and I don't remember thinking he was a 'liability'. It's really hard to quantify his importance in winning those titles his team won.

[Valuist]

Posada is not Hall of Fame worthy. Not even debatable, IMO.

[EasyGoer89]

Posada is not Hall of Fame worthy. Not even debatable, IMO.

If he was elected tomorrow, would he be the worst player in the hall? If not, than he's worthy of at least getting in the convo.

[andtheyreoff]

If he was elected tomorrow, would he be the worst player in the hall? If not, than he's worthy of at least getting in the convo.

Saying "hey, at least he wouldn't be the worst HOFer!" is not much of an argument.

[kingfin66]

I guess the question is this, does his hitting and being a reliable catcher for championship teams outweigh his lack if defensive excellence? I've seen a LOT of Posadas lifetime games and I don't remember thinking he was a 'liability'. It's really hard to quantify his importance in winning those titles his team won.

If this is the argument, then Mike Piazza is the comparison. In this case, there would then be absolutely no comparison at all. I mean, think about this. Lance Parrish is not even in the Hall of Fame. He was an incredible player who put up better offensive numbers than either Posada or Carter. He was also a very good defensive catcher. No Hall of Fame. As I said before, the HOF does a terrible job of inducting players.

Parrish

AS - 8
GG - 3
SS - 8
MVP - 0

[EasyGoer89]

Saying "hey, at least he wouldn't be the worst HOFer!" is not much of an argument.

The argument would be that he's as good as so and so and that's why he should get a look. It's not the best argument, you're right about that, personally I think there are some hofers who don't belong, as far as posada actually belonging? It's a stretch, but that's our stretch, the HOF has different standards, they let in more people than I would.

[Valuist]

If this is the argument, then Mike Piazza is the comparison. In this case, there would then be absolutely no comparison at all. I mean, think about this. Lance Parrish is not even in the Hall of Fame. He was an incredible player who put up better offensive numbers than either Posada or Carter. He was also a very good defensive catcher. No Hall of Fame. As I said before, the HOF does a terrible job of inducting players.

Parrish

AS - 8
GG - 3
SS - 8
MVP - 0

I agree Parrish > Posada