More than one way to change the outcome of a race

[sammy the sage]

I wondered what these two ""Canani Nick (Calabrese)"" were up too yesterday...when in the 9th 11/8th race they had their BIG fav. go 44 up front unchallenged...of course he wilted...

Big picture though...only single winner's in p5 & p6...HHHmmmm....extra 100k above and beyond waged what one would expect...HHHmmm...just sayin... :faint:

[jelly]

That was the 8th race.Castellano set these fraction for 1 1/8
20.48 44.00 107.99 132.47 145.23 everybody was shaking their heads "Whats he doing"? Canani/calabrese missed out in the last race though coming in 2nd.



Big numbers yesterday.

pk4 53k

pk5 pd 236k

pk6 414k

[johnhannibalsmith]

That was the 8th race.Castellano set these fraction for 1 1/8
20.48 44.00 107.99 132.47 145.23 everybody was shaking their heads "Whats he doing"? ...

Did they actually publish those fractions? I just assumed at the time that they were bogus and still would be rather hard to convince me that it wasn't a timing error having watched the horse run.

[therussmeister]

These are the times Trakus reported:

24.09 47.53 1:11.28 1:36.11 1:48.88

[Dahoss9698]

Did they actually publish those fractions? I just assumed at the time that they were bogus and still would be rather hard to convince me that it wasn't a timing error having watched the horse run.

A timing error at Gulfstream? Hard to believe.

[johnhannibalsmith]

A timing error at Gulfstream? Hard to believe.

What I find even harder to believe is that after posting an obviously incorrect quarter time, then half time, that they just keep letting the timer post flawed data to the display. Okay, the timer sucks there and they can't seem to fix it - but why don't they pull that blatantly incorrect nonsense down and avoid making a bad problem worse with interpretations like the ones found here?

[jelly]

These are the times Trakus reported:

24.09 47.53 1:11.28 1:36.11 1:48.88




DRF list final time as 148.1 :confused:

[johnhannibalsmith]

DRF list final time as 148.1 :confused:

That is (presumably) coming from the Equibase chart which carries the footnote: "THIS RACE WAS HAND TIMED AND NO FRACTIONS WERE AVAILABLE"

[Dahoss9698]

What I find even harder to believe is that after posting an obviously incorrect quarter time, then half time, that they just keep letting the timer post flawed data to the display. Okay, the timer sucks there and they can't seem to fix it - but why don't they pull that blatantly incorrect nonsense down and avoid making a bad problem worse with interpretations like the ones found here?

It is hard to believe. I'd love to know why it is exactly they have such a hard time timing races.

To be honest I see that time and know it can't be right. I'm kind of surprised people thought it was legit.

[johnhannibalsmith]

...To be honest I see that time and know it can't be right. I'm kind of surprised people thought it was legit.

Yeah, I was doing my best to be polite and put most of the blame on GP. But yeah.

[thaskalos]

We should encourage unsophisticated players...no? :)

It is unforgivable for a major racetrack to have long-term race timing problems like these.

[johnhannibalsmith]

We should encourage unsophisticated players...no? :)

...

That's why I tried to take the objective approach even though I completely disagreed with the original poster's conclusion for obvious reasons. It never should even get to a point where the integrity of the race is being questioned because of that kind of malfunction. What needlessly awful aspersions to bring upon your track for something so avoidable.

Again, I don't know what kind of hardware/software Gulfstream uses - but it seems almost unimaginable that they don't have a "Stop Display" function to mitigate the fall-out from this pathetic timing - and at least clue people that may not deduce it themselves in to the fact mid-race that there has been a malfunction... again.

Edited to note: I really don't pay a lot of attention to the daily product at Gulfstream and I don't intend to imply that Gulfstream never does, nor never has, stopped the posting of incorrect fractions. Perhaps they ordinarily do and this was an isolated example of why not to let isolated examples slip through the cracks.

[Robert Fischer]

Looked like an honest race, but the pace went above class level.

Chosen Empire ran above class level, however the 7yo gelding also got claimed, and went from Canani(36%turf) to Elizabeth Gray.

[Tom]

Why are they using hand timed data when they have Trakus data????

This why I do not play GP and do not any pace line for and GP races - ever.
They are free to be incompetent as much as they like, but I'll pass on all of their racing. GP is a complete joke.

[RXB]

Why are they using hand timed data when they have Trakus data????

This why I do not play GP and do not any pace line for and GP races - ever.
They are free to be incompetent as much as they like, but I'll pass on all of their racing. GP is a complete joke.

Somehow, even Trakus manages to screw up at GP. Check out the start margins for the horses listed first and second at the start call in Saturday's 7th.

http://tnetwork.trakus.com/dsi2007/Gulfstream.aspx?EventID=34169&Type=TBRED&VenueID=20

The Trakus times for that race are totally false. Way too slow in the first fraction and the error carries over from there. Their times in yesterday's 6th are goofy, too, but in the opposite direction with the first quarter too quick and again the error carried over into the other fractional times.

I handtimed Saturday's 6th and 7th and from the gate I got:

6th - 24.09 47.12 1:37.63
7th - 24.02 47.46 1:36.32

The Equibase times seem right for those two races while the Trakus times are obviously wrong.

[nearco]

The world record for 2f is 20.71.
Hard to believe someone would break that in the first 1/4m of a 9f race.

[therussmeister]

One thing Trakus does wrong at Tampa (I don't remember if it has happened at Gulfstream), is when there is a late scratch the horse goes jogging off the track with the radio tag still in the saddle cloth transmitting data which screws up all the timing for the race.

[RXB]

One thing Trakus does wrong at Tampa (I don't remember if it has happened at Gulfstream), is when there is a late scratch the horse goes jogging off the track with the radio tag still in the saddle cloth transmitting data which screws up all the timing for the race.

Interesting. Not sure what happened in Saturday's 6th and 7th at GP as there weren't any late scratches.

[RXB]

I just looked at the Trakus chart for today's (Sunday's) 4th at GP. Like the 6th and 7th from Saturday, it is a one-mile race, and it is also screwed up. A ridiculous start margin for the start call leader, and incorrect times. The first quarter is about a second too slow and the error is carried throughout, again.

Also, if you look at those Trakus charts, although the stretch call is actually at 7/8 for a one-mile race the Trakus chart lists it incorrectly at 15/16. So, just how much can you trust Trakus data at GP these days? (Answer: not very much.)

[sammy the sage]

really...does it matter whether it was 44 or 46...it WAS inexcusable...to the betting public...and a major score for them..

ps..didn't matter about their horse in the last race...they HAD IT covered...easy to do once you know the 1/1 shot is NOT going to win...just takes money...to MAKE money...

ps...I didn't bet any of those races races..just observed..

[Dahoss9698]

really...does it matter whether it was 44 or 46...it WAS inexcusable...to the betting public...and a major score for them..

ps..didn't matter about their horse in the last race...they HAD IT covered...easy to do once you know the 1/1 shot is NOT going to win...just takes money...to MAKE money...

ps...I didn't bet any of those races races..just observed..

I'm trying to figure out what was inexcusable. What are you saying exactly?

[sammy the sage]

I'm trying to figure out what was inexcusable. What are you saying exactly?

Try reading the opening remarks :rolleyes:

[Dahoss9698]

Try reading the opening remarks :rolleyes:

I need Rosetta Stone to make it out.

Are you saying they purposely had their horse lose the 8th in order to hit the pick 5 and 6?

[thespaah]

We should encourage unsophisticated players...no? :)

It is unforgivable for a major racetrack to have long-term race timing problems like these.
Since the Gulfstream reconfiguration, I have noticed timing issues. Usually short.
Especially in turf races.

[Striker]

I see nothing wrong with what Javy did setting those fractions or anything else involved with Chosen Empire. And I would be the first in a betting line that would accept bets on Frank Calabrese NEVER tanking a race with one of his horses on purpose. He has a little issue with losing any race his horses are entered in.

[johnhannibalsmith]

I need Rosetta Stone to make it out.

...

:lol:

Feck its nice to be able to play the nice guy now that you are out of hibernation.

[RXB]

really...does it matter whether it was 44 or 46...it WAS inexcusable...to the betting public...and a major score for them..


Probably more like 47.xx, rather than 44.00. Which makes an almost incalculable difference. There's zero evidence of any shenanigans.