What does PA members believe?

[fast4522]

1. Back in 1961 people of color were called 'Negroes.' So how can the Obama 'birth certificate' state he is 'African-American' when the term wasn't even used at that time?

2. The birth certificate that the White House released lists Obama's birth as August 4, 1961. It also lists Barack Hussein Obama as his father. No big deal, right? At the time of Obama's birth, it also shows that his father is... aged 25 years old, and that Obama's father was born in "Kenya, East Africa ". This wouldn't seem like anything of concern, except the fact that Kenya did not even exist until 1963, two whole years after Obama's birth, and 27 years after his father's birth. How could Obama's father have been born in a country that did not yet exist? Up and until Kenya was formed in 1963, it was known as the "British East Africa Protectorate".

3. On the birth certificate released by the White House, the listed place of birth is "Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital". This cannot be, because the hospital(s) in question in 1961 were called "KauiKeolani Children's Hospital" and "Kapi'olani Maternity Home", respectively. The name did not change to Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until 1978, when these two hospitals merged. How can this particular name of the hospital be on a birth certificate dated 1961 if this name had not yet been applied to it until 1978?

[Greyfox]

If true, the Birth Certificate was registered sometime considerably after the birth. Registering a birth was not necessarily done in those days when the child was born. However, the date and place that the Birth Certificate was registered should be accurate.
If the date of registration was in 1961, something is very odd.

[Greyfox]

Well, something is odd. But it just may be the hospital name.
I found Obama's Birth Certificate on the 'net and it was registered on
Aug. 8, 1961.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

However, even if Kenya wasn't a formal state prior to 1963, I personally recall referring to Kenya in the 1950's during the Mau Mau terror attacks.
On the B.C. I do not see the term African-American, unless I've missed it.
The father is African. The mother is Caucasian from Kansas.
So the only thing that would be in doubt might be the name of the hospital he was born in.

[hcap]

Well, something is odd. But it just may be the hospital name.
I found Obama's Birth Certificate on the 'net and it was registered on
Aug. 8, 1961.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

However, even if Kenya wasn't a formal state prior to 1963, I personally recall referring to Kenya in the 1950's during the Mau Mau terror attacks.
On the B.C. I do not see the term African-American, unless I've missed it.
The father is African. The mother is Caucasian from Kanas.
So the only thing that would be in doubt might be the name of the hospital he was born in.

The hospital was "The Donald Trump Family Medical Center". The attending physician was Dr. WoldNetDaily.

[Tom]

hcap, can you reproduce any BC from that year in that state that used the term A-A instead of Negro? That would certainly end the speculation if you could.

Always nice to see facts presented - hard to argue with a fact, unless you are from Chicago and delivered mail. :D

[hcap]

The hospital was "The Donald Trump Family Medical Center". The attending physician was Dr. WoldNetDaily.All the physicians and nurses at "The Donald Trump Family Medical Center" are graduates of the Boxcarian Anti-Socialistic Anchors Away Institute of Malapropistic Scieces.

Yogi Berra, perhaps being the most prestigious alumni, forever immortalizing his Alma Mata during his graduation speech as class valedictorian...It's like déjà vu all over again."





*Approved by The Regulators Anti-Socialism Vigilance Committee

[Tom]

I take that as a NO?

[hcap]

I take that as a NO?
Show me where it says that bunky.


http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/longform.jpg

"It's like déjà vu all over again."

[Jay Trotter]

I believe it is "stupid" to even discuss this subject. If that's what you want to focus on then I guess the real issues of the day (ie. It's the economy stupid) are just filler topics. :ThmbDown:

[johnhannibalsmith]

...On the B.C. I do not see the term African-American, unless I've missed it.
The father is African. The mother is Caucasian from Kansas.
...

We've both missed it if it is there. I see nothing regarding the race of the child at all.

Edited to add: Not a big believer in taking Wiki as the gospel, but it lists the name change for that hospital as having occured in 1931, not 1978 as the original posts states.

[fast4522]

Dear Gents,
Christmas is over, tons of rocks for the ready and in the bullpen warming up.

[Grits]

Dear Gents,
Christmas is over, tons of rocks for the ready and in the bullpen warming up.

The Christmas truce didn't originate here, but its good that it lasted for about 48 hours. Those soldiers in the mountains of Afg, and past wars, they don't (and didn't) have the luxury of a full 48. Or, one of sitting on their asses whining and arguing.:lol:

[OTM Al]

I do believe that "does" is not a plural verb, so I do believe that the word is "do".

Other than that, I believe this is one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard...

[Tom]

Then it should be easy to debunk, no?

Does it indeed say "AA" on it, and if it does, do any other certs from the same year also use that term?

That is why I asked our resident data-miner to show us it in use on any other BC.

The topic only becomes silly when it can't be proven wrong.......as I said, facts are hard to argue.

This should have been over an hour ago.

[Greyfox]

Does it indeed say "AA" on it, and if it does, do any other certs from the same year also use that term?

.

No. It does not say African - American.
If it does, show us where. I couldn't find it and neither could johnhannibalsmith.

The BC is at -->http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/birth-certificate-long-form.pdf

[Tom]

That is all I asked to begin with.
Case closed.
See how simple that was?

[mostpost]

1. Back in 1961 people of color were called 'Negroes.' So how can the Obama 'birth certificate' state he is 'African-American' when the term wasn't even used at that time?

2. The birth certificate that the White House released lists Obama's birth as August 4, 1961. It also lists Barack Hussein Obama as his father. No big deal, right? At the time of Obama's birth, it also shows that his father is... aged 25 years old, and that Obama's father was born in "Kenya, East Africa ". This wouldn't seem like anything of concern, except the fact that Kenya did not even exist until 1963, two whole years after Obama's birth, and 27 years after his father's birth. How could Obama's father have been born in a country that did not yet exist? Up and until Kenya was formed in 1963, it was known as the "British East Africa Protectorate".

3. On the birth certificate released by the White House, the listed place of birth is "Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital". This cannot be, because the hospital(s) in question in 1961 were called "KauiKeolani Children's Hospital" and "Kapi'olani Maternity Home", respectively. The name did not change to Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital until 1978, when these two hospitals merged. How can this particular name of the hospital be on a birth certificate dated 1961 if this name had not yet been applied to it until 1978?

If you had taken ten minutes to check these "Facts" which you got from some e-mail or some right wing blog, we would not now be thinking that you are stupid. Sorry to say that, but no other term fits.

Your Point #1:
The birth certificate does not say Barack Obama was African American. It does not discuss his race at all. It says that his father was African (Not African American) While Negro was the common term for people of color, in this country, African was the common term used by natives of Africa. It is very likely that Barack Obama senior insisted on the use of the term African.
Discussion of this can be found on snopes.com.

Your Point #2:
Kenya became an independent country in 1963, but Kenya existed long before that. A Kenya-Uganda railroad was built in the 1890's. The country was referred to as Kenya in news stories about the Mau Mau uprising of the 1950's. The Kenya African Union was a political movement formed in 1944. It gave rise to the Kenyan African Nations Union formed in 1960. Also formed in 1960 was the Kenyan African Democratic Union. The name Kenya was in common usage decades before 1963.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenya

Your point #3:
Johnhannibalsmith debunked this one but here is another link:
http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/yes-there-was-a-kapiolani-maternity-gynecological-hospital-in-1961/

[mostpost]

Dear Gents,
Christmas is over, tons of rocks for the ready and in the bullpen warming up.

This isn't fair! You guys have an unlimited supply of rocks.......in your heads. All we have are facts and logic. :lol: :lol:

[hcap]

Then it should be easy to debunk, no?

Does it indeed say "AA" on it, and if it does, do any other certs from the same year also use that term?

That is why I asked our resident data-miner to show us it in use on any other BC.

The topic only becomes silly when it can't be proven wrong.......as I said, facts are hard to argue.

This should have been over an hour ago.
Every few months someone revives this dumb issue here. Give it up guys. Get ready for the repugs to lose again as the TPers and the crazy right wing base allow this garbage to go on.

[bobbyb]

Kenya, East Africa did not exist in August 1961. It was known as The East Africa Protectorate.
It became Kenya when independence was declared in December 1964.. three years and 3+ months later.
Obama’s father could not possibly have known they would call the country Kenya in 1961. A vision perhaps...........??
The decision to name the Country Kenya was made by the first president, Kenyatta.

[JustRalph]

Wow! It's like a car accident. Everybody has to slow down to look.......

[hcap]

Kenya, East Africa did not exist in August 1961. It was known as The East Africa Protectorate.
It became Kenya when independence was declared in December 1964.. three years and 3+ months later.
Obama’s father could not possibly have known they would call the country Kenya in 1961. A vision perhaps...........??
The decision to name the Country Kenya was made by the first president, Kenyatta.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

Critics claimed this document, too, was forged, based primarily on three arguments:

* The country of Kenya did not exist until 1963.

* The Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital was not known by that name until 1978.

* A birth certificate from 1961 would not have listed "African" as a race (rather than "Negro" or "Black").

All of these arguments are erroneous. The country now known as the East African republic of Kenya became a British protectorate referred to as Kenya in 1895, obtained colonial status in 1920, and gained full independence from Britain in 1963. The Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital was known by that name between 1931 and 1971 (after which its name was shortened to Kapi'olani Hospital). And although "Negro" was the typical demographic term used for American blacks in the early 1960s, "African" was commonly used for blacks who (like Barack Obama's father) were actually native-born Africans.

[Greyfox]

If you had taken ten minutes to check these "Facts" which you got from some e-mail or some right wing blog, we would not now be thinking that you are stupid. Sorry to say that, but no other term fits.



Yes. I agree mostie. Fast doesn't appear "fast" on that post.

[Greyfox]

Kenya, East Africa did not exist in August 1961. It was known as The East Africa Protectorate.
It became Kenya when independence was declared in December 1964.. three years and 3+ months later.
Obama’s father could not possibly have known they would call the country Kenya in 1961. A vision perhaps...........??
The decision to name the Country Kenya was made by the first president, Kenyatta.


I've already mentioned in a much earlier thread that while the country was not officially Kenya, those of us who were around in the 1950's certainly always called it Kenya particularly during the Mau Mau terrorism. Fact.
That was well before 1963. I don't ever recall anyone, any newspaper or TV calling it East African Protectorate.

[hcap]

I've already mentioned in a much earlier thread that while the country was not officially Kenya, those of us who were around in the 1950's certainly always called it Kenya particularly during the Mau Mau terrorism. Fact.
That was well before 1963. I don't ever recall anyone, any newspaper or TV calling it East African Protectorate.Read my snip from Snopes directly above yours. There is NO great mystery here except for those who want one....

[Ocala Mike]

Used to collect stamps in my youth, and remember this set issued in 1954:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/karenhorton/4300984937/

I believe Kenya appears on postage stamps as early as 1935.


Ocala Mike

[mostpost]

If this thread was a Prize Fight, they would have stopped it.

[Ocala Mike]

If this thread was a Prize Fight, they would have stopped it.

Mostie, the opposition must have a great cut man in their corner, because they NEVER throw in the towel. Now Mitt's saying he won't release his tax returns until BO releases his BC and college transcript.


Ocala Mike

[fast4522]

What would you expect from a Kenyan?

[Greyfox]

What would you expect from a Kenyan?

The only Kenyan's I've seen are Fast. They win marathons.
Mostie has already pointed out you're not fast, fast4522.

[Tom]

And although "Negro" was the typical demographic term used for American blacks in the early 1960s, "African" was commonly used for blacks who (like Barack Obama's father) were actually native-born Africans.

That is all I asked you - are there other BCs that used the AA term?
You still haven not answered that.

This is how conspiracies get momentum - instead of answering them with straight facts and examples, you guys just lie to argue the silliness of the ideas.

Had you answered my inquiry this morning, this thread would have died at 10 posts or so.

[Tom]

When asked "Kenya" Obama replied, Yes, We Can.

Turns out, he couldn't.

[fast4522]

There you go again stero typing people, Mostie may be Kenyan and the one we throw rocks at.

[hcap]

That is all I asked you - are there other BCs that used the AA term?
You still haven not answered that.

This is how conspiracies get momentum - instead of answering them with straight facts and examples, you guys just lie to argue the silliness of the ideas.

Had you answered my inquiry this morning, this thread would have died at 10 posts or so.Hello? Earth to Captain Tom
Attention, the BC does not say "AA'

http://www.snopes.com/politics/graphics/longform.jpg

Had you answered my inquiry this morning, this thread would have died at 10 posts or so.We did! Because you and Fast and boobyb kept the ball rolling it still breathes. It will continue on during the next presidential election because this kind of idiocy never dies (nor the idiots that cling to it)

I am surprised boxcar has resisted posting some tripe from WorldNutDaily or beck's site. "The Blaze".

[fast4522]

Don't let the guy from Monroe, NY fool you, another Kenyan

[TJDave]

What does PA members believe?

I believe that no amount of debating this issue will change these facts:

1. Barack Obama is currently the President.

2. Barack Obama will run for reelection.

3. Those predisposed to believe or disbelieve this theory have decided and will vote accordingly.

Clearly, both sides are preaching to the crowd.

[fast4522]

Clearly, both sides are preaching to the crowd.

OK

[boxcar]

And even that's not true, FastStuff. The facts of his term, thus far, belie that. He has indeed done very much to this country.

Boxcar

[Rookies]

Do a Google search on the OPs first question. WOW!!!! They all cut and paste the identical same loon Con conspiracy!

Just where are all these Birther nutters from ?:lol:

Area 51?
The Grassy Knoll ?
Andromeda?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[newtothegame]

Do a Google search on the OPs first question. WOW!!!! They all cut and paste the identical same loon Con conspiracy!

Just where are all these Birther nutters from ?:lol:

Area 51?
The Grassy Knoll ?
Andromeda?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

lol Rookies.....yeah I have to agree with you here...surley they are from one of the 57 states!!! :lol:

But, as to the BC, NO REPUG will win with this foolishness. Stick to the economy and Obummer gets blasted!

[fast4522]

What is so very clear is how this administration is geared, nothing new same old McGovernics and voting blocks. Get people hooked on welfare, food stamps, scared about health care, line up your Hispanics and gays and use class warfare as the carrot that looks like it will give a equal footing to anyone who can yell ME! ME! ME!. In the end he does attack millionaires but takes good care of his billionaire friends the Bilderburg group. This group is comprised mostly of Europeans mostly foreign money used to exact what they want from us as a people as far as labor. Moving jobs out of the country and investing multinational interests else ware with low cost regions as the tool to manipulate world economy's at their will.

I choose NObama.

[Greyfox]

In the end he does attack millionaires but takes good care of his billionaire friends the Bilderburg group. This group is comprised mostly of Europeans mostly foreign money used to exact what they want from us as a people as far as labor.

You're saying the Bilderburg Conspiracy is alive and well and is supported by Obama eh??
My fear fast4522 is that the more people like yourself knock Obama about the Birth Certificate and Bilderburg, the more Independents like myself start to have doubts about the extreme "Right."
I feel Obama has earned the right to be ousted from office.
But not for any of the looney arguments that you are presenting.
Your types of arguments do considerable damage to the conservative cause and make sensible thinkers reflect twice about who they'd be lining up with in a vote against Obama.

[Tom]

FDMYMbj8_4A&feature=related

[boxcar]

You're saying the Bilderburg Conspiracy is alive and well and is supported by Obama eh??
My fear fast4522 is that the more people like yourself knock Obama about the Birth Certificate and Bilderburg, the more Independents like myself start to have doubts about the extreme "Right."
I feel Obama has earned the right to be ousted from office.
But not for any of the looney arguments that you are presenting.
Your types of arguments do considerable damage to the conservative cause and make sensible thinkers reflect twice about who they'd be lining up with in a vote against Obama.

So, you're not a big believer in oligarchies? Global Government by the rich/elite/intelligentsia/powerful few? You see no evidence of this in the world today?

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

So, you're not a big believer in oligarchies? Global Government by the rich/elite/intelligentsia/powerful few? You see no evidence of this in the world today?

Boxcar

I never said that. Trying to tie Obama in with that conspiracy is daft and does damage to the Republican cause. Focus on what we know, not what we don't know.

[Jay Trotter]

I never said that. Trying to tie Obama in with that conspiracy is daft and does damage to the Republican cause. Focus on what we know, not what we don't know.
I was under the impression he (Boxcar) knows everything! Was I led astray? :faint:

[boxcar]

I never said that. Trying to tie Obama in with that conspiracy is daft and does damage to the Republican cause. Focus on what we know, not what we don't know.

Actually, there's no compelling reason to not believe that a globalist like Obama would not be prostitute himself with other globalists. Having said that, however, I agree that Obama packs enough stinky garbage in his luggage for everyone to unpack and sift through, apart making this shadowy group an issue.

It's ironic you mention "Republican cause". I highly suspect that this elite group and others account for why the Republican Party keep promoting RINOs. The Bilderbergs have a reputation for "never losing". They always have both candidates in their hip pocket, as they did with McCain during the last election. This way, they win no matter which candidate loses.

Here is a maxim: The rich and powerful did not get that way by losing.

http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2009/03/21/the-power-of-bilderberg-group-how-obama-won-the-election-hillary-obama-in-secret-bilderberg-rendezvous/

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9270

Boxcar

[boxcar]

I was under the impression he (Boxcar) knows everything! Was I led astray? :faint:

Good man! Stick with that impression and you'll never go far wrong. :D

Boxcar

[fast4522]

At some point in anything failed, you have to ask yourself:

How could one asshole do so much damage?

The easy answer that he was a on the job training failure.

But we are not talking about a stupid man here, he is backed by the McGovern machine.

Only Massachusetts was stupid to its core to vote for him when it was his nomination. The very same cartload of assholes elected Jimmy Carter, remember the peanut years? And yes The Bilderburg Group are all degenerates who have a focus on you as the slave for low wages.

[PaceAdvantage]

You're saying the Bilderburg Conspiracy is alive and well and is supported by Obama eh??
My fear fast4522 is that the more people like yourself knock Obama about the Birth Certificate and Bilderburg, the more Independents like myself start to have doubts about the extreme "Right."
I feel Obama has earned the right to be ousted from office.
But not for any of the looney arguments that you are presenting.
Your types of arguments do considerable damage to the conservative cause and make sensible thinkers reflect twice about who they'd be lining up with in a vote against Obama.Nonsense.

What you have before you on the Republican side bears no resemblance to anything that could ever be considered "Extreme Right."

Maybe in some biased over-the-top fantasy land, but not in real life.

And I'm fairly certain none of the major players for the Republican ticket have ever made an issue out of Obama's birth certificate.

[mostpost]

Nonsense.

What you have before you on the Republican side bears no resemblance to anything that could ever be considered "Extreme Right."

Maybe in some biased over-the-top fantasy land, but not in real life.

And I'm fairly certain none of the major players for the Republican ticket have ever made an issue out of Obama's birth certificate.

What constitutes "extreme right" to you? Vlad the Impaler?

"extreme right" to me is someone who wants to destroy Social Security or to change it in a way that would eventually destroy it. Someone who wants to destroy unions. Someone who wants to ban abortion in all cases including if the life of the mother is in danger. Someone who wants to ban mosques in certain areas. Someone who opposes civil unions for gay couples. I have heard Republicans espouse all of the above. Loudly and frequently.

Donald Trump was a leading Presidential candidate at one time. He made many comments questioning Obama's birthplace. I seem to remember Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachman being members of "Obama's a Kenyan" club. Maybe the top candidates don't go around saying it, but they certainly don't argue against it. They are content to take the votes of the nut cases who believe that nonsense.

[mostpost]

At some point in anything failed, you have to ask yourself:

How could one asshole do so much damage?

The easy answer that he was a on the job training failure.

But we are not talking about a stupid man here, he is backed by the McGovern machine.

Only Massachusetts was stupid to its core to vote for him when it was his nomination. The very same cartload of assholes elected Jimmy Carter, remember the peanut years? And yes The Bilderburg Group are all degenerates who have a focus on you as the slave for low wages.

The McGovern Machine?? The McGovern Machine?? Am I reading that right? If you think George McGovern is the head of some all powerful political machine, I pity you. The same George McGovern who was one of the most ineffectual presidential candidates in history. The same George McGovern who spent most of his post presidential campaign lecturing on college campuses. The same George McGovern who has concentrated on issues of hunger and nutrition in his later years.

This is exactly the kind of man who would run a political machine. Somewhat similar to the way Al Capone used to spend his Saturday mornings reading to the kids at the orphanage. :rolleyes:

[Greyfox]

Nonsense.

What you have before you on the Republican side bears no resemblance to anything that could ever be considered "Extreme Right."

Maybe in some biased over-the-top fantasy land, but not in real life.

And I'm fairly certain none of the major players for the Republican ticket have ever made an issue out of Obama's birth certificate.

Nonsense yourself. I wasn't referring to the Republican ticket or the Republican side. I was referring to outlier loons here on this board who believe the Bilderburg Conspiracy controls Govt and who push the idea that Obama's BC is false.

[canleakid]

NEWS FLASH FROM ROY FIRESTONE: :rolleyes:
Barack Obama is the 44th. Pres. of the USA

[PaceAdvantage]

Nonsense yourself. I wasn't referring to the Republican ticket or the Republican side. I was referring to outlier loons here on this board who believe the Bilderburg Conspiracy controls Govt and who push the idea that Obama's BC is false.There are loons on both sides who you will be voting with no matter which candidate you pull the lever for...that's always been the case throughout history.

[Tom]

And they will be voting for loons as well!

[Mike at A+]

What constitutes "extreme right" to you? Vlad the Impaler?

"extreme right" to me is someone who wants to destroy Social Security or to change it in a way that would eventually destroy it. Someone who wants to destroy unions. Someone who wants to ban abortion in all cases including if the life of the mother is in danger. Someone who wants to ban mosques in certain areas. Someone who opposes civil unions for gay couples. I have heard Republicans espouse all of the above. Loudly and frequently.

Donald Trump was a leading Presidential candidate at one time. He made many comments questioning Obama's birthplace. I seem to remember Rick Santorum and Michelle Bachman being members of "Obama's a Kenyan" club. Maybe the top candidates don't go around saying it, but they certainly don't argue against it. They are content to take the votes of the nut cases who believe that nonsense.
I consider myself very far right. Not "extreme". Social Security could be fixed in two ways. Stop politicians from using it as their personal piggy bank OR make it voluntary. But don't come crying if you screw up and turn 65 with no savings. I don't want to "destroy unions" but I want them to be held to the same standard as the rest of us. "Collective bargaining" is just another way of saying "cover for the unproductive" and "penalize achievment". I believe pro-choice means that there is a choice BEFORE pregnancy. I also believe that abortion should be permitted in the "hard cases". Don't try to tell me that as a Catholic I am not toeing the line because I have my own line. The Pope, the bishops, the priests can preach what they want. I answer to one "Person" and it isn't any of them. As for mosques, they can build them practically anywhere they want here. We CAN'T build churches in Islamic countries. We definitely can't build SYNAGOGUES over there. As for civil unions, I've always been OK with them. Just don't try to hijack the word "marriage". That's already taken. Donald Trump may have some good economic ideas but he conducts himself like a pompous asshole in public. As bad as that sounds, he's still better than Obama. As for the birth certificate issue, I have to take Obama on his word. But as a betting man, I would not bet my life that he's eligible to be president. I'm a numbers guy and I need mathematical proof, not a web posted facsimile. There is still much doubt and it's "above my pay grade" to say for sure if absolute proof has been provided.

Now how about you tell us what "extreme left" means? Disrupting, infiltrating and shouting down town hall meetings? Calling people "racists" when there is no proof? Vandalizing campaign headquarters? Burning a swastika onto someone's lawn? Invading the Wisconsin state house, damaging public property and incurring huge costs in cleanup fees? Terrorizing a 12 year old in his own home because his daddy is a lawyer who did some contract work for B of A? Puncturing tires of vans that were to bring the elderly to vote? Throwing glitter in a candidate's face? Taking a shit on an American flag? Blocking traffic? Closing down ports? I could go on but you get the idea, don't you?

[Tom]

They are content to take the votes of the nut cases who believe that nonsense.

You live in Chicago, where they vote early and often.
Where the dead vote.
Where elections are sold on a regular basis.



And you have the balls to post this??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mostpost]

You live in Chicago, where they vote early and often.
Where the dead vote.
Where elections are sold on a regular basis.
I live near Chicago, not in Chicago. But seriously, can you provide me with links to some newspaper or online articles describing all this voter fraud in Chicago. Something reasonably current.


And you have the balls to post this??? :lol: :lol: :lol:
I used my fingers. Your method results in way too many typos.

[bigmack]

But seriously, can you provide me with links to some newspaper or online articles describing all this voter fraud in Chicago. Something reasonably current.
How is Oct 2010 for you?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=331_1288233022

[johnhannibalsmith]

... Your method results in way too many typos.

You're a hunt and pecker too, huh?

[mostpost]

I consider myself very far right. Not "extreme". Social Security could be fixed in two ways. Stop politicians from using it as their personal piggy bank OR make it voluntary. But don't come crying if you screw up and turn 65 with no savings.
Not sure how politicians use SS as their personal piggy bank. If you mean taking Social Security funds and using them to fund other programs without paying it back, I agree. If you mean personally taking Social Security benefits without paying into the system, that is not happening.
Making Social Security voluntary would destroy it, not save it. Allowing people to put their Social Security contributions into their own savings or investing fund would only give Wall Street Banks more money to steal.
The fact is, with real wages falling and expenses rising, there is little chance for a person to save enough money to retire.



I don't want to "destroy unions" but I want them to be held to the same standard as the rest of us. "Collective bargaining" is just another way of saying "cover for the unproductive" and "penalize achievment".
Of course you want to destroy unions. Everything you write shouts that. You are right that unions are not held to the same standards as some of us. Unions don't get tax breaks for moving operations overseas. Unions don't get subsidies to look for oil, or for growing corn, or NOT growing corn. "Collective bargaining does not "cover for the unproductive." I worked in union shops and non union shops. There is little difference between the work ethic in the two. People who are going to be lazy are going to be lazy regardless of where they work. Hard working union employees are just as likely to be critical of a slacker
as hard working non union employees.
In my career in the Post Office I saw many employees who were rewarded for achievement. None of our union members ever tried to interfere with a promotion or other reward. In fact if I knew someone was up for a promotion, I would try to make them look better so they could achieve their goal.



I believe pro-choice means that there is a choice BEFORE pregnancy. I also believe that abortion should be permitted in the "hard cases". Don't try to tell me that as a Catholic I am not toeing the line because I have my own line. The Pope, the bishops, the priests can preach what they want. I answer to one "Person" and it isn't any of them.
I am against abortion. But, I don't think that it is my place to tell a woman what to do with her body. I definitely don't think the government should make laws telling her what to do. I don't care what the clergy say either.





As for mosques, they can build them practically anywhere they want here. We CAN'T build churches in Islamic countries. We definitely can't build SYNAGOGUES over there.
No we can't, but the whole idea is that we are better than they are. We say we have freedom of religion, not freedom of religion unless....


As for civil unions, I've always been OK with them. Just don't try to hijack the word "marriage". That's already taken. Donald Trump may have some good economic ideas but he conducts himself like a pompous asshole in public. As bad as that sounds, he's still better than Obama. As for the birth certificate issue, I have to take Obama on his word. But as a betting man, I would not bet my life that he's eligible to be president. I'm a numbers guy and I need mathematical proof, not a web posted facsimile. There is still much doubt and it's "above my pay grade" to say for sure if absolute proof has been provided.
If that is your view on civil unions, fine. There are Republicans who oppose them.

Now how about you tell us what "extreme left" means? Disrupting, infiltrating and shouting down town hall meetings? Calling people "racists" when there is no proof? Vandalizing campaign headquarters? Burning a swastika onto someone's lawn? Invading the Wisconsin state house, damaging public property and incurring huge costs in cleanup fees? Terrorizing a 12 year old in his own home because his daddy is a lawyer who did some contract work for B of A? Puncturing tires of vans that were to bring the elderly to vote? Throwing glitter in a candidate's face? Taking a shit on an American flag? Blocking traffic? Closing down ports? I could go on but you get the idea, don't you?

I think it means communists. Actual communists, not the communists you see behind every tree. If disrupting Town Hall meetings is bad, why didn't I hear any complaints from you when The Tea Baggers did it at Democratic Town Hall meetings in the summer of 2010. Why would a leftist burn a swastika into some one's lawn. The Swastika is a symbol of the Nazis. The Nazis are a right wing group. I'm opposed to defecating on any nation's flag.
Blocking traffic, closing down ports temporarily are legitimate protest methods. They are things you sometimes need to do when no one is listening to you.

Yeah, I get the idea. The idea is when you do it, you are patriots working to save your country. When we do it, we are traitors working to destroy it.
GARBAGE.

[JustRalph]

Blocking traffic, closing down ports temporarily are legitimate protest methods. They are things you sometimes need to do when no one is listening to you.

This may be one of the more idiotic things you have ever posted. And that's saying something.

[mostpost]

How is Oct 2010 for you?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=331_1288233022
In Illinois, anyone can vote by absentee ballot. The person has to fill out an application for absentee ballot and send it to the county election official.
The story says that the Illinois Democratic Coordinating Campaign sent applications to 404,000 voters. The story does not say where the IDCC got their mailing list. How they decided who to send the applications to. Here is my problem with characterizing this as voter fraud.

If these applications were sent to everyone, then they would be likely to disenfranchise as many Democrats as Republicans. Most likely they were sent to people on Democratic mailing lists, People who made contributions, people who voted in Democratic primaries etc.
The IDCC is unlikely to have a list of Republican voters.
Disenfranchising your own voters is not a particularly effective way of winning elections. Also nowhere in the ABC story do we here from any Republican official claiming voter fraud was involved. The were too busy laughing at the way the Democrats shot themselves in the foot.

If you think I am wrong in my interpretation of all this, here is a story on the subject from the very liberal :rolleyes: National Review.
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-spot/251336/did-illinois-democrats-botch-their-absentee-get-out-vote-effort

A few pertinent paragraphs.
Illinois Democrats appear to have made serious mistakes in their absentee-ballot get-out-the-vote efforts. They started late and they mailed all of their absentee-ballot applications for every targeted voter in the state from one location in Chicago. Obviously, that takes longer than mailing it locally, and so many of the applications are still sitting in post-office bins across the state. The deadline for requesting an absentee ballot is . . . today.

So the state party has to contact these folks by phone and tell them that they’re in danger of missing the deadline, and so they should vote in person on November 2 . . . except they don’t have the phone numbers for all of their targeted voters.

Of course your right wing blogger tried to portray it as voter fraud and you fell for it. Quite the opposite of voter fraud, it was a blunder that may have cost Alexi Giannoulious a Senate seat.

[Mike at A+]

This may be one of the more idiotic things you have ever posted. And that's saying something.
You are absolutely right. And the easy test for validity here is to apply Mostie's "legitimate protest scenario" across the board. If it's valid to block traffic and shut down ports than it must also be valid to invade the restaurant in Hawaii where Obama and his wife are eating and chant anti-Obama slogans while they eat. How do you think THAT would turn out? And that doesn't even rise to the extremes of blocking traffic or shutting down ports. I fully believe in the right to protest but I also believe that the right ends at the point whene it infringes on the rights of others.

The left just doesn't seem to comprehend this. And this is why I am so against the OWS idiots. They are allegedly mad at the bankers yet everyone they hurt with their protesting has nothing to do with those bankers. They're like small children throwing temper tantrums.

[Mike at A+]

I think it means communists. Actual communists, not the communists you see behind every tree. If disrupting Town Hall meetings is bad, why didn't I hear any complaints from you when The Tea Baggers did it at Democratic Town Hall meetings in the summer of 2010. Why would a leftist burn a swastika into some one's lawn. The Swastika is a symbol of the Nazis. The Nazis are a right wing group. I'm opposed to defecating on any nation's flag.
Blocking traffic, closing down ports temporarily are legitimate protest methods. They are things you sometimes need to do when no one is listening to you.

Yeah, I get the idea. The idea is when you do it, you are patriots working to save your country. When we do it, we are traitors working to destroy it.
GARBAGE.
What you call the Tea Party "disrupting" Town Hall meetings is ridiculous. Those people were actually trying to ask questions - ONE ON ONE. They weren't chanting mindlessly in unison in an environment where dialog was the expectation. They were trying to get THEIR representatives to answer questions. On the left, you have protesters BUSSED IN from who knows where with the sole purpose of disrupting. NOT to have a dialog but to SHUT DOWN ANY dialog. When SEIU bussed in that group of scumbags who terrorized that 12 year old child and even brought a MEGAPHONE to increase the intimidation and harassment, they lost any chance for sympathy from most normal people. They behaved like wild animals as they did in the Wisconsin State House. The tactics of the left and the right are clearly different. Adults expect a two way dialog. Animals only want to intimidate and disrupt.

[boxcar]

Blocking traffic, closing down ports temporarily are legitimate protest methods. They are things you sometimes need to do when no one is listening to you.

I'm beginning to think you scraped your moral values out of the bottom of some dumpster. The other day, you defended Buffet's lack of action to pay more of his own taxes for the good the poor because his virtuous actions might provide disincentive for other rich people to follow his good example. :rolleyes:

Now, you express the total lack of regard for others' rights when you support civil disobedience by demonstrators. This is typical liberalism. You're all for exercising your rights even when they infringe on the rights of others. Is this your version of how you love your neighbor as you do yourself? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[mostpost]

What you call the Tea Party "disrupting" Town Hall meetings is ridiculous. Those people were actually trying to ask questions - ONE ON ONE. They weren't chanting mindlessly in unison in an environment where dialog was the expectation. They were trying to get THEIR representatives to answer questions. On the left, you have protesters BUSSED IN from who knows where with the sole purpose of disrupting. NOT to have a dialog but to SHUT DOWN ANY dialog. When SEIU bussed in that group of scumbags who terrorized that 12 year old child and even brought a MEGAPHONE to increase the intimidation and harassment, they lost any chance for sympathy from most normal people. They behaved like wild animals as they did in the Wisconsin State House. The tactics of the left and the right are clearly different. Adults expect a two way dialog. Animals only want to intimidate and disrupt.

Let's talk about the protest at the home of Greg Baer first. The first time I heard this story. the son was fifteen. Now he is twelve. Makes it more sympathetic that way. The fact is he was never in any kind of danger.

Nina Easton, a writer for Fortune magazine, a Fox News contributor and Baer's neighbor, was the source of the story. What reason would she have to embellish the story? She's a writer for Fortune Magazine. She works for Fox. Those are two very good reasons. Oh, her husband's PR firm- SSG -- boasts the Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable as clients. Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan is a member of the Business Roundtable.

Unbiased accounts say the crowd was noisy, but not violent. They say that the protesters own crowd control kept people off of Baer's neighbors' lawns.
When Greg Baer returned home, they yelled at him, they chanted slogans, but they did not touch him. When he told them that he needed to get inside to take care of his son who was frightened, they moved aside and did not prevent him from entering his home. I am doubtful they even knew the son was inside the house. And I am seriously thinking that if Greg Baer were childless and sterile, the right would have invented a son.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/nina-easton-fortune-colum_n_583023.html

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Unbiased accounts say ...

Tooth fairy or Santa Claus?

[Mike at A+]

Let's talk about the protest at the home of Greg Baer first. The first time I heard this story. the son was fifteen. Now he is twelve. Makes it more sympathetic that way. The fact is he was never in any kind of danger.

Nina Easton, a writer for Fortune magazine, a Fox News contributor and Baer's neighbor, was the source of the story. What reason would she have to embellish the story? She's a writer for Fortune Magazine. She works for Fox. Those are two very good reasons. Oh, her husband's PR firm- SSG -- boasts the Chamber of Commerce and the Business Roundtable as clients. Bank of America CEO Brian Moynihan is a member of the Business Roundtable.

Unbiased accounts say the crowd was noisy, but not violent. They say that the protesters own crowd control kept people off of Baer's neighbors' lawns.
When Greg Baer returned home, they yelled at him, they chanted slogans, but they did not touch him. When he told them that he needed to get inside to take care of his son who was frightened, they moved aside and did not prevent him from entering his home. I am doubtful they even knew the son was inside the house. And I am seriously thinking that if Greg Baer were childless and sterile, the right would have invented a son.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/nina-easton-fortune-colum_n_583023.html
What part of THEY WERE ON HIS FU**ING LAWN UNINVITED do you not understand?

[mostpost]

What part of THEY WERE ON HIS FU**ING LAWN UNINVITED do you not understand?
What part of he's TAKING THEIR FU**ING HOMES THROUGH SUBTERFUGE AND LEGAL SHENANIGANS do you not understand.

[Mike at A+]

What part of he's TAKING THEIR FU**ING HOMES THROUGH SUBTERFUGE AND LEGAL SHENANIGANS do you not understand.
You are hopeless. The man has a job. He does his job. He gets paid to do his job. He's not doing anything illegal and he follows the law as it relates to his job. I am quite sure that if he took anyone's home illegally, he'd be in trouble with the law (which he's not). So basically he's being harassed because some people disagree with the job he has to do. Also I'd be willing to make a very large wager with you that the people on his lawn were not representative of people who lost any homes. They were BUSSED IN HOOLIGANS WHO WERE TOLD BY THEIR UNION BOSSES TO HARASS SOMEONE WHO IS JUST DOING HIS JOB.

[boxcar]

What part of he's TAKING THEIR FU**ING HOMES THROUGH SUBTERFUGE AND LEGAL SHENANIGANS do you not understand.

And IF he is guilty of these things, why hasn't he been prosecuted? We're supposed to be a nation of laws, yet how are hypocritical leftists any better when they become lawbreakers like those they accuse of criminal activities?

Maybe you have found another golden rule in the bible? The one that goes, "Do unto other just as they have done unto you"? Or even better: "Do unto others before they do unto you"? :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[mostpost]

You are hopeless. The man has a job. He does his job. He gets paid to do his job. He's not doing anything illegal and he follows the law as it relates to his job. I am quite sure that if he took anyone's home illegally, he'd be in trouble with the law (which he's not).

The list of illegal or questionably legal methods used to foreclose on homes is quite extensive. They include not posting payments in a timely fashion, adding fees without informing the homeowner and using a part of the mortgage payment to pay those fees. Charging late fees after holding up payments. Insisting that the homeowner get insurance coverage that is not needed. Changing the payment date without informing the homeowner, thus creating an artificial late payment. Deliberately not paying property taxes on the property on time, then applying part of the mortgage payment to the late fee causing a delinquency on the mortgage itself. Forging foreclosure papers when no legal reason for Foreclosure exists.

These methods are not used against homeowners who have the knowledge or wherewithal to challenge them. They are used against homeowners who are barely keeping up with their payments. These companies use fraudulent extra fees and the methods listed above to put those people behind in their payments. Those homeowners are frequently unaware of their rights and often too unsophisticated to know how to fight back. Frequently they did not have legal representation when acquiring the loans.

When I hear about these underhanded methods I somehow lack a sense of outrage that someone stepped on Mr. Baer's roses.

[boxcar]

The list of illegal or questionably legal methods used to foreclose on homes is quite extensive. They include not posting payments in a timely fashion, adding fees without informing the homeowner and using a part of the mortgage payment to pay those fees. Charging late fees after holding up payments. Insisting that the homeowner get insurance coverage that is not needed. Changing the payment date without informing the homeowner, thus creating an artificial late payment. Deliberately not paying property taxes on the property on time, then applying part of the mortgage payment to the late fee causing a delinquency on the mortgage itself. Forging foreclosure papers when no legal reason for Foreclosure exists.

These methods are not used against homeowners who have the knowledge or wherewithal to challenge them. They are used against homeowners who are barely keeping up with their payments. These companies use fraudulent extra fees and the methods listed above to put those people behind in their payments. Those homeowners are frequently unaware of their rights and often too unsophisticated to know how to fight back. Frequently they did not have legal representation when acquiring the loans.

When I hear about these underhanded methods I somehow lack a sense of outrage that someone stepped on Mr. Baer's roses.

That's the least of what you lack! What about a true sense of fairness and justice of which you, apparently, have not a scintilla? For if you did, you would not presume this man guilty without a shred of evidence against him.

Just remember, Mr. Mosty: By the measure you judge people, by the same standard you will be judged (Mat 7:2).

Boxcar

[Mike at A+]

The list of illegal or questionably legal methods used to foreclose on homes is quite extensive. They include not posting payments in a timely fashion, adding fees without informing the homeowner and using a part of the mortgage payment to pay those fees. Charging late fees after holding up payments. Insisting that the homeowner get insurance coverage that is not needed. Changing the payment date without informing the homeowner, thus creating an artificial late payment. Deliberately not paying property taxes on the property on time, then applying part of the mortgage payment to the late fee causing a delinquency on the mortgage itself. Forging foreclosure papers when no legal reason for Foreclosure exists.

These methods are not used against homeowners who have the knowledge or wherewithal to challenge them. They are used against homeowners who are barely keeping up with their payments. These companies use fraudulent extra fees and the methods listed above to put those people behind in their payments. Those homeowners are frequently unaware of their rights and often too unsophisticated to know how to fight back. Frequently they did not have legal representation when acquiring the loans.

When I hear about these underhanded methods I somehow lack a sense of outrage that someone stepped on Mr. Baer's roses.
It seems to me that the simple solution is to understand your mortgage agreement and to pay your bills on time. I do and I've never had any of these problems you speak of. Everyting you are calling "underhanded methods" is clearly detailed in writing in all legal contracts. People who lack the intelligence to comprehend these details shouldn't be signing on the dotted line. Banks are not in the business of saving people from their own stupidity. And until people acquire the ability to be financially responsible, they should stick to renting before taking the leap to home ownership.

[JustRalph]

What part of he's TAKING THEIR FU**ING HOMES THROUGH SUBTERFUGE AND LEGAL SHENANIGANS do you not understand.

What part of taking advantage of government ordered set asides that set borrowers up for failure don't you understand? 105 % loans with no verification of income etc. btw, that was ordered by the government. Fanny et al assumed the risk for the banks in an unholy conspiracy of government vote buying and Democratic pandering. It cost the entire country a lost decade. The banksters are no worse than the Congressmen and the President that started the housing mess by dictating that those who cannot afford a home, be shoe horned into one for the sake of a political philosophy of buying votes.

Mike, great posts :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

Of course your right wing blogger tried to portray it as voter fraud and you fell for it. Quite the opposite of voter fraud, it was a blunder that may have cost Alexi Giannoulious a Senate seat.

Should check eBay......I hear those seats are up for sale!