Now pigeons more intelligent than Conservatives

[Native Texan III]

"Pigeons have now shown that they can learn abstract rules about numbers, an ability that until now had been demonstrated only in primates"

"And New Caledonian crows make and use tools in ways that would put the average home plumber to shame. "

"Elizabeth Brannon, a professor of psychology (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/psychology_and_psychologists/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) and neuroscience at Duke University, and one of the scientists who did the original experiments with monkeys, was impressed by the new results. “Their performance looks just like the monkeys’,”

"That would really be something, because the common ancestor of pigeons and primates would have been alive around 300 million years ago, before dinosaurs and mammals."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/23/science/pigeons-can-learn-higher-math-as-well-as-monkeys-study-suggests.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

[Robert Goren]

Crows are smarter than Joe the Plummer. Who'd Thunk?

[HUSKER55]

so,...conservatives have been around for 300 millon years which means that liberal and democrats have not, which makes them a new fangled contraption that does not work and has not worked for 300 million years.


OK,...thanks for the post

[Greyfox]

When I see a lame one walking "human toed" I'll believe your post.

In the meantime consider this blue pigeon story.

The mayor of Phoenix was very worried about a plague of pigeons in Phoenix.

The mayor could not remove the pigeons from the city. All of Phoenix was full of pigeon poop. The people of Phoenix couldn't walk on the sidewalks or drive on the roads. It was costing a fortune to try to keep the streets and sidewalks clean.

One day a man came to City Hall and offered the Mayor proposition. "I can rid your beautiful city of its plague of pigeons without cost
to the city. But, you must promise not to ask me any questions. Or, you can pay me five million dollars and ask one question."

The mayor considered the offer briefly and accepted the free
proposition.

The next day the man climbed to the top of City Hall, opened his coat, and released a blue pigeon. The blue pigeon circled in the air and flew up into the bright blue Arizona sky. All the pigeons in Phoenix saw the blue pigeon. They gathered up behind the blue pigeon.

The Phoenix pigeons followed the blue pigeon as she flew southward out of the city.

The next day the blue pigeon returned completely alone to the man a top City Hall. The Mayor was very impressed. He thought the man and the blue pigeon had performed a wonderful miraculous feat to rid Phoenix of the plague of pigeons.

Even though the man with the pigeon had charged nothing, the mayor presented him with a check for 5 million dollars and told the man that, indeed, he did have a question to ask and even though they had agreed to no fee and the man had rid the city of pigeons, he decided to pay the 5 million just to get to ask ONE question.

The man accepted the money and told the mayor to ask his question.

The mayor asked: "Do you have a blue Mexican?"

[badcompany]

IQ is a quantity, not a quality. Just look at all the intelligent, educated liberals and leftists who are miserably defective human beings.

[bigmack]

Crows are smarter than Joe the Plummer. Who'd Thunk?
Where, pray tell, would you put yourself on a scale with Joe & a crow?

[Spiderman]

IQ is a quantity, not a quality. Just look at all the intelligent, educated liberals and leftists who are miserably defective human beings.

Vice versa

[Tom]

IQ is a quantity, not a quality. Just look at all the intelligent, educated liberals and leftists who are miserably defective human beings.

Isn't that ALL of them???

[Tom]

Where, pray tell, would you put yourself on a scale with Joe & a crow?

Crows appear smarter to Bobby.....

[badcompany]

Vice versa

It's a fair point, but, I honestly don't see as much of the infantile, "Look at how smart I am!" attitude on the right.

[Tom]

"Pigeons have now shown that they can learn abstract rules about numbers, an ability that until now had been demonstrated only in primates"

This would seem to apply much more to Obama and the mental midgets who bought his song and dance yesterday about what $40 would do for people.

Let's get real here, only a true simpleton thought that was intelligent. Only an utter moron bough the story. Fellow posters, avoid mirrors if you must! :lol:

While he ranted on and on about $40, the REAL truth is that he and the dems dunces forced the American taxpayers, and all those stooges he had on stage with him, to settle for 8 weeks of $40 while denying the republican attempts to give us all 52 weeks of $40, and fell like winners by doing so. :lol:

Math - it's not a hallmark of the democrat party.
The funny part about it is, many, many people just got screwed and think they got a Christmas present from Obama.

Obama has always counted on the ignorance of strangers.

[Spiderman]

It's a fair point, but, I honestly don't see as much of the infantile, "Look at how smart I am!" attitude on the right.

Generalizations by definition is not definitive. An argument pro and con would go around in circles.

[ArlJim78]

the pigeons were brave enough to have their test scores made public. that's more than we can say about some.

the two people in public life who have demonstrated on multiple occasions that they are not exactly comfortable with numbers are Obama and Pelosi. they ought to sign up a few of these pigeons for tutoring.

[badcompany]

Generalizations by definition is not definitive. An argument pro and con would go around in circles.

In this case, the thread was DEFINITELY started by a Liberal who wanted to show that Conservatives are dumb vis a vis Liberals are smart.

[Greyfox]

Breaking News:

AP: Pigeons have confirmed that there are not 57 States.
Obama is having a bird.

[Robert Goren]

Crows appear smarter to Bobby..... I grew up on a farm and have had some experence dealing with crows and I am sorry to say there is no doubt that crows are smarter than me. :bang: :lol: :lol:

[Spiderman]

In this case, the thread was DEFINITELY started by a Liberal who wanted to show that Conservatives are dumb vis a vis Liberals are smart.


Beats dumb quotes from Faux Noose.

[Greyfox]

I grew up on a farm and have had some experence dealing with crows and I am sorry to say there is no doubt that crows are smarter than me. :bang: :lol: :lol:

I wouldn't crow about that if I was you.

[Tom]

Breaking News:

AP: Pigeons have confirmed that there are not 57 States.
Obama is having a bird.

Take 14 votes for the 2 month extension off the senate version.:D

[NJ Stinks]

It's a fair point, but, I honestly don't see as much of the infantile, "Look at how smart I am!" attitude on the right.

The right cannot say ""Look at how smart I am!" Because it's hard to brag about how smart you are when you are constantly taking a position that defies logic and screws a decent percentage of your fellow Americans.

At any rate, conservatives have to live on the wrong side of plenty of issues.

Pick an issue. Here's the "smart" conservative side:

abortion - don't want women to have a right to choose no matter what

the economy - doesn't want any government regulation - even if everyone got screwed recently!

stem cell research - screw those who may be helped - which may be practically all of us sooner or later

energy - who cares if reliance on oil is no long term solution to anything? I need to save money now!

euthanasia - it may be your body & life but that's tough - conservatives know what's good for you - right to the bitter end!

global warming - don't worry about it - just believe what I believe because it's cheaper and certainly more convenient today

gun control - who cares if people are being killed daily in the big cities? Their problems are not my problems and I don't want them trying to fix their problems even if there is only a 1% chance it may affect me!

health care - I've got mine. What's the problem?

immigration - not my problem - I live here legally.

religion and government - my God knows best and if my God says all abortions are wrong and gays shouldn't marry - by God that should be the law of the land!

Social Security - privatize it- at least maybe somebody will be enriched by it besides the recipients :rolleyes:

taxes - a flat tax may screw the poor but I'm not poor

welfare - Welfare? What a joke! Make'em stand up for themselves or screw'em. It's not my fault somebody can't make it. I did.

The right doesn't care if it's smart or not smart. So why should the right brag about something so unimportant to their beliefs?

[bigmack]

The right doesn't care if it's smart or not smart. So why should the right brag about something so unimportant to their beliefs?
Kudos on the positively prehistoric take on things. Where are you getting your notions; from the biggest neanderthal of them all?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/ed-schultz-idiot-stupid-300x292.jpg

[BlueShoe]

Since this thread is about birds, did you ever notice how Liberal ideology closely resembles the characteristics of the Dodo Bird? First, it is obsolete and has no place in the modern world, and next, it has never been able to fly and never will.

[NJ Stinks]

Kudos on the positively prehistoric take on things. Where are you getting your notions; from the biggest neanderthal of them all?

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/ed-schultz-idiot-stupid-300x292.jpg

Get me up-to-date. Tell me where I got it wrong on any of those issues. I'm sure I must have got something wrong somewhere.

[bigmack]

Get me up-to-date. Tell me where I got it wrong on any of those issues. I'm sure I must have got something wrong somewhere.
Start gathering FACTS, not your flash card ideas. Do some homework on the average income by political party. We'll begin your lesson by dispelling this wrongful impression you have that all R's are wealthy. That will blow out almost half of your delusions.

This should be fun. You'll learn a ton. :ThmbUp:

[dartman51]

The right cannot say ""Look at how smart I am!" Because it's hard to brag about how smart you are when you are constantly taking a position that defies logic and screws a decent percentage of your fellow Americans.

At any rate, conservatives have to live on the wrong side of plenty of issues.

Pick an issue. Here's the "smart" conservative side:

abortion - don't want women to have a right to choose no matter what WRONG

the economy - doesn't want any government regulation - even if everyone got screwed recently! WRONG

stem cell research - screw those who may be helped - which may be practically all of us sooner or later WRONG

energy - who cares if reliance on oil is no long term solution to anything? I need to save money now! WRONG

euthanasia - it may be your body & life but that's tough - conservatives know what's good for you - right to the bitter end! WRONG

global warming - don't worry about it - just believe what I believe because it's cheaper and certainly more convenient today WRONG

gun control - who cares if people are being killed daily in the big cities? Their problems are not my problems and I don't want them trying to fix their problems even if there is only a 1% chance it may affect me! WRONG

health care - I've got mine. What's the problem? WRONG

immigration - not my problem - I live here legally. WRONG

religion and government - my God knows best and if my God says all abortions are wrong and gays shouldn't marry - by God that should be the law of the land! WRONG

Social Security - privatize it- at least maybe somebody will be enriched by it besides the recipients :rolleyes: WRONG

taxes - a flat tax may screw the poor but I'm not poor WRONG

welfare - Welfare? What a joke! Make'em stand up for themselves or screw'em. It's not my fault somebody can't make it. I did. WRONG

The right doesn't care if it's smart or not smart. So why should the right brag about something so unimportant to their beliefs?

You must have copied this from the DK. I would like to think that you are smart enough not to believe all of this garbage. I'm a conservative, and you are WRONG on all of this. Just because 1 or 2 Repubs promote something, doesn't mean all Conservatives believe in it. Not to mention that most all of this is taken out of context. But then, that's what Libs do. Like saying the Repubs didn't want to extend the payroll tax cuts. A LIE. They wanted to extend them for a year, NOT 2 months. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

I checked it out, NJ....you are wrong on every issue.
But thank you for playing.

[badcompany]

You must have copied this from the DK. I would like to think that you are smart enough not to believe all of this garbage. I'm a conservative, and you are WRONG on all of this. Just because 1 or 2 Repubs promote something, doesn't mean all Conservatives believe in it. Not to mention that most all of this is taken out of context. But then, that's what Libs do. Like saying the Repubs didn't want to extend the payroll tax cuts. A LIE. They wanted to extend them for a year, NOT 2 months. :ThmbUp:

The standard Liberal dishonest arguing tactic is the "False Assumption."

They assume that someone who doesn't want the Government to do something, doesn't want it done at all, examples being healthcare, education, and charity (welfare).

Lately, Liberals have gotten so intellectually lazy that they don't even bother with false assumtions. They just lie.

[JustRalph]

come on guys........why take the flame bait?

ignore this shit...........

[lsbets]

come on guys........why take the flame bait?

ignore this shit...........

It's too easy when someone like NJ makes a list totally detached from reality and wrong on every issue.

[Actor]

so,...conservatives have been around for 300 millon years which means ......that conservatives are dinosaurs. That explains a lot. :lol:

[Rookies]

...that conservatives are dinosaurs. That explains a lot. :lol:

40 Years ago a friend used to call Cons Troglodytes...

not much has changed...:lol:

[HUSKER55]

GOOD ONE GUYS! I WALKED RIGHT INTO THAT ONE!:D

[NJ Stinks]

come on guys........why take the flame bait?

ignore this shit...........

Well, I must admit it was a bit of a windup on a slow day. :p

But I will say this. Dartman, I don't read the Daily Kos.

[hcap]

so,...conservatives have been around for 300 millon years which means that liberal and democrats have not, which makes them a new fangled contraption that does not work and has not worked for 300 million years.


OK,...thanks for the postDung beetles have also been around for 300 million years.

They spend 90% of their lives rolling in crap. And have the work ethic we hear about all the time . No "anchors" or welfare queens among these colorful recyclers of cow pies.

I am somewhat surprised Republicans are not using these guys as a political talking point and FAUX NOOS HAD NOT RUN THIS in support of any one of the Rethug presidential nominees. I mean why bother with debates, when we have a perfect illustration of exactly how effective Republicans can be when they put their NOSES to work moving piles of dung

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1649190/motivational-monday-do-you-have-the-work-ethic-of-a-dung-beetle-

Motivational Monday: Do you have the work ethic of a Dung Beetle?

Motivational Monday: Do you have the work ethic of a Dung Beetle?Motivational Monday: Do you have the work ethic of a Dung Beetle?

I would hope so.

He:

* Does his job well
* Uses no excuses
* Works very efficiently

He knows that if he doesn't follow-through with his commitments, he won't survive.

Do you value your commitments?

When you are unable to make an appointment, do you call and cancel?

Or do you call several hours after the scheduled time with a half-hearted apology, saying you didn't think it was a firm appointment?

Most people can see right through insincerity and if you run your business this way, a Dung Beetle most likely has a better work ethic than you do. Try a little common courtesy regarding making an appointment, KEEP IT or CALL and CANCEL! It's the least you can do.

http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/8/0/3/2/9/ar127412429292308.jpg

[Greyfox]

Dung beetles have also been around for 300 million years.

They spend 90% of their lives rolling in crap.

Sort of like Harry Mason Reid (Democrat) eh?

[HUSKER55]

if republicans are dung beetles moving crap then.....ok..GOT IT!HEY BOYS AND GIRLS...H'CAP HAS COME AROUND THE CORNER AND HAS JOINED THE LIGHT SIDE OF THE FORCE! :jump: :jump: :jump:

[BlueShoe]

H'CAP HAS COME AROUND THE CORNER AND HAS JOINED THE LIGHT SIDE OF THE FORCE!
Yep, Cappy is very good at talking crap, as his posts point out. Usually they come with an impossible to comprehend chart or graph. Perhaps he can give us one highlighting the close similarity between the intelligence level and behavior patterns of the dung beetle and that of the typical liberal Democrat. Except of course dung beetles work very hard and liberal Democrats work very hard at spending others peoples money.

[Show Me the Wire]

A very insightful description from the late Bishop Sheen on this subject.

A conservative is someone who doesn't want little Johnny to change the color of his hat and the liberal not only wants little Johnny to change the color of his hat, but to cut off little Johnny's head and change that too.

[badcompany]

Yep, Cappy is very good at talking crap, as his posts point out. Usually they come with an impossible to comprehend chart or graph.

Hcap is a textbook example of the saying:

If you can't dazzle'm with diamonds, baffle'm with bulls**t.

[Tom]

Hcap is a textbook example of the saying:

If you can't dazzle'm with diamonds, baffle'm with bulls**t.

Or, as hcap would put it......

[badcompany]

Or, as hcap would put it......

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything when I read this. I would've done a "spit take" on my screen.:lol:

[mostpost]

You must have copied this from the DK. I would like to think that you are smart enough not to believe all of this garbage. I'm a conservative, and you are WRONG on all of this. Just because 1 or 2 Repubs promote something, doesn't mean all Conservatives believe in it. Not to mention that most all of this is taken out of context. But then, that's what Libs do. Like saying the Repubs didn't want to extend the payroll tax cuts. A LIE. They wanted to extend them for a year, NOT 2 months. :ThmbUp:

NJ's list boils down to this: In every issue he addressed Republicans put petty ideology ahead of the good of the people. Taxes, economy, stem cells,gay rights all of them. On all of these issue, I hear members of Congress promote the views NJ ascribed to them. I hear conservative radio talk show hosts rant about them and I have read countless posts favoring them on this forum. For you to say only one or two Repubs support the is beyond ridiculous.

Republicans blocked the original Obama proposal for a one year extension which would have been paid for, because it inconvenienced their Millionaire friends. The sad thing is you either don't know this or have been brainwashed into forgetting it,

[Greyfox]

Mostpost said:
"Then there is the matter that the pipeline will divert oil from the midwest to the gulf coast, thereby raising prices 10 t0 20 cents per gallon in the midwest. That would have a negative effect on jobs."


Huh? Where did you get that erroneous information?

[Tom]

Huh? Where did you get that erroneous information?

Guess.....

[mostpost]

Start gathering FACTS, not your flash card ideas. Do some homework on the average income by political party. We'll begin your lesson by dispelling this wrongful impression you have that all R's are wealthy. That will blow out almost half of your delusions.

This should be fun. You'll learn a ton. :ThmbUp:

Average income by political party is meaningless. You are trying to assert that there are as many rich Democrats as rich Republicans. That may be true, but is not the issue. The issue is the disparity between high incomes and low incomes. Clearly, Republican policies exacerbate those inequities, while Democratic policies lessen them.

[HUSKER55]

IT IS CHRISTMAS!

mostpost, is there anything the democratic party does that you don't support?

[Actor]

You are trying to assert that there are as many rich Democrats as rich Republicans. That may be true...Not true. According to Pew Research there are more rich Republicans than rich Democrats.

[mostpost]

Mostpost said:
"Then there is the matter that the pipeline will divert oil from the midwest to the gulf coast, thereby raising prices 10 t0 20 cents per gallon in the midwest. That would have a negative effect on jobs."


Huh? Where did you get that erroneous information?
I got that non-erroneous information here:
http://www.ilr.cornell.edu/globallaborinstitute/research/upload/GLI_KeystoneXL_Reportpdf.pdf


Higher Fuel Prices in 15 States
According to TransCanada, KXL will increase the price of heavy crude oil in the Midwest by
almost $2 to $4 billion annually, and escalating for several years.72 It will do this by diverting
major volumes of Tar Sands oil now supplying the Midwest refineries, so it can be sold at
higher prices to the Gulf Coast and export markets. As a result, consumers in the Midwest
could be paying 10 to 20 cents more per gallon for gasoline and diesel fuel, adding up to
$5 billion to the annual US fuel bill.73 Further, the KXL pipeline will do nothing to insulate
the US from oil price volatility.74

[BlueShoe]

The issue is the disparity between high incomes and low incomes. Clearly, Republican policies exacerbate those inequities, while Democratic policies lessen them.
Sheer propaganda, the class warfare and wealth redistribution ideals that the Democratic Party has embraced. Right out of playbooks of Marx, Engels, and Lenin.

[ArlJim78]

another reason for the Democrats to hire these pigeons and their super math skills.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uW5VRQHjazE/TvXfHw_MdYI/AAAAAAAABGQ/dbFwZvKVdMM/s640/Tweet1.png

[JustRalph]

Jim, that's great. I had to re-tweet that one......... for all 34 of my devoted followers :lol: But, I counted them right............

[dartman51]

Well, I must admit it was a bit of a windup on a slow day. :p

But I will say this. Dartman, I don't read the Daily Kos.

I'm glad to hear that NJ....I actually thought you were smarter than that.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours. :) :ThmbUp:

[Rookies]

Sheer propaganda, the class warfare and wealth redistribution ideals that the Democratic Party has embraced. Right out of playbooks of Marx, Engels, and Lenin.

Old Blue...

YOU be the guy I'd most like to meet here, other than Boxie...:lol: The personification of reds under every bed creature. We had one of those here in TO... Lubor J Zink...(RIP) who tolled for a right wing news ragand who had escaped the commies from Hungary, I believe and just constantly bellowed that the Reds were at the door, coming through your windowa, on your deck...etc.

in short... hilariously crazy! :lol:

[HUSKER55]

it was during the 70's and there were people here that escaped Vietnam and the stories they told were horrific. They would petition everyone at every mall street corner you name to sign a petition to keep America a free Republic and the right to vote.
I had a friend who used to work in a hospital that dealt with them. He had to drug them so they could get a good nights sleep.

That kind of fear is hard for us "normal" people to grasp. (ok..ok...hard for me to grasp):)

[NJ Stinks]

[QUOTE=dartman51

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and yours. :) :ThmbUp:[/QUOTE]

Right back at you, Dartman! :cool:

It gets a little crazy down here but as this place shows, crazy can be good. :ThmbUp:

[bigmack]

Republican policies exacerbate those inequities, while Democratic policies lessen them.
\Would you like to see, AGAIN, the growth rate and fiscal health between heavy red states and heavy blue states? It's a subject you've dodged at least 5 times. I'll understand if you do again while you choose to continue believing false premises.

Facts/fallacies. Strive to know the differences.

[Tom]

When a republican wants wealth, he buckles down and earns it.
When a democrat wants wealth, he seeks out a republican who has it and takes it from him.

[NJ Stinks]

When a republican wants wealth, he buckles down and earns it.
When a democrat wants wealth, he seeks out a republican who has it and takes it from him.

I assume you believe in Santa Claus too.

[lsbets]

I assume you believe in Santa Claus too.

Doesn't he live in DC and have big ears? :)

[Steve 'StatMan']

I have to repost this:

[HUSKER55]

THANKS STEVE :ThmbUp:

[NJ Stinks]

Me too!

Thanks, Steve! :lol: :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Riddle me this...

If Conservatives are such idiots and liberals are such geniuses, how come liberal Europe is in the toilet and liberal-run USA (since Jan 2009) is still stuck in the mud?

[lsbets]

Riddle me this...

If Conservatives are such idiots and liberals are such geniuses, how come liberal Europe is in the toilet and liberal-run USA (since Jan 2009) is still stuck in the mud?

It's Bush's fault.

Oh yeah, ATMs too.

[Actor]

Sheer propaganda, the class warfare and wealth redistribution ideals that the Democratic Party has embraced. Right out of playbooks of Marx, Engels, and Lenin.Don't for get Charles Dickens. :bang:

Have you read Marx, Engels, Lenin?

[Actor]

Riddle me this...

If Conservatives are such idiots and liberals are such geniuses, how come liberal Europe is in the toilet and liberal-run USA (since Jan 2009) is still stuck in the mud?I can't answer for Europe but the conservatives have run the U.S.A. since 1981, overseeing the destruction of the middle class. Their current policy is one of obstructionism while they await their chance to get back at the trough.

[ArlJim78]

I can't answer for Europe but the conservatives have run the U.S.A. since 1981, overseeing the destruction of the middle class. Their current policy is one of obstructionism while they await their chance to get back at the trough.
I wish this were true, but in my lifetime conservatives have never run this country. It's been on an ever increasing welfare state trajectory for over half a century. Why just recently we've been told how we must copy the European model. ha! great advice guys.

Obstructionism is currently our only hope as we simply can't afford any more government solutions.

A conservative would run a cost benefit analysis before spending. The big government folks that run our country think no benefit is too small and no cost too high.

Government interference, government regulation, government picking winners and losers, government market manipulation, excessive government spending; these are what have stymied the growth in this country.

And we won't have growth until people like you finally understand that government doesn't fix problems, rather it only makes them worse.

[NJ Stinks]

Riddle me this...

If Conservatives are such idiots and liberals are such geniuses, how come liberal Europe is in the toilet and liberal-run USA (since Jan 2009) is still stuck in the mud?

Liberal Europe is in the toilet because most of it's countries invested heavily in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage market. We are stuck in the mud for the same reason. I hope I've answered your question succinctly. And with no :rolleyes: or :bang: because it's Christmas Day.:cool:

____________________________________________


Prior to 2008, there were great differences between countries in what is now the fragile periphery of the Eurozone: Ireland did not have high levels of government debt before the crisis, Greece and Italy did. The connection between the 2007-8 financial crisis that was sparked off in the sub-prime mortgage market in the US and today’s Eurozone sovereign debt crisis is through Europe’s banks. They were shaken by the first part of the crisis, with governments intervening – most visibly in Ireland and the UK – in order to stabilize their balance sheets. Carlin notes that one of the first banks to fail in 2007 was a German bank. In France, policymakers at the time – notably current IMF director, Christine Lagarde, who was French finance minister when the crisis first broke out – complimented their banks for what seemed to be limited exposure to US sub-prime mortgages. Today, we see that French banks are no different from their peers, only that the risk they took on was more heavily concentrated in Southern Eurozone economies – Spain, Italy and Greece. What is driving the Eurozone crisis at the moment is the fear of contagion: a Greek default alone would not topple big Northern European banks, but if Italy and Spain defaulted, the French government would be called upon to intervene in order to recapitalize its banking system. French government debt would soar and it would move from creditor to debtor in one swift move.

Full story:

http://thecurrentmoment.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/financialization-not-debt-is-the-cause-of-europes-crisis/

[bigmack]

Liberal Europe is in the toilet because most of it's countries invested heavily in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage market.
That's right kiddies, NJ would like to point out THE ONLY reason Europe is in the toilet. There's no other reason. Ya see, indirectly it's OUR fault. They'd be hunky-dory without our sub-prime mortgage market. :D

Ahhh, how simple it is to figure things out when you look at them through the eyes of a simpleton.

[Tom]

I can't answer for Europe but the conservatives have run the U.S.A. since 1981, overseeing the destruction of the middle class. Their current policy is one of obstructionism while they await their chance to get back at the trough.
You better see if you can get your money back on your calendar - the dates are all screwed up! :lol:

[HUSKER55]

QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS AND GIRLS, if every country has their own currency, which is a good thing, and left investments to investors, and government kept their damn noses out of the siutation, would everyone be better off?



No bailouts no nothing. The job of government is to keep their own currency stable. Period. By that I mean no over printing of money, not spending more than they take in and etc.

[woodtoo]

The long slippery slide to socialism is now so firmly entrenched in the way we live and work and behave that it is now a fabric of our society.The upper tiers
of both big business and government have become so deceitful and Greedy,
it's as if anything goes with no guilt nor repercussions.
The national debt is so great...and they know it can not be paid back.
There is now an International movement afoot to create a new currency
and if,or should I say when this happens, well it wont bode too well for America.


Maybe, just maybe, the Donald could help.

Merry Christmas

[mostpost]

Riddle me this...

If Conservatives are such idiots and liberals are such geniuses, how come liberal Europe is in the toilet and liberal-run USA (since Jan 2009) is still stuck in the mud?

you got that one wrong too. Liberals do not run Europe. In great Britain Margaret Thatcher was PM from 1979 to 1990 and John Majors from 1990 to 1997 both were conservatives. Tony Blair, who served for ten years was at best middle of the road. Christian Democrats, who are conservatives have ruled Germany 22 of the last 29 years. France has been ruled by Gaullists much of the last thirty years. Charlse de Gaulle was not a liberal.

NJ Stinks provided a good account of why Europe is in trouble.

[mostpost]

That's right kiddies, NJ would like to point out THE ONLY reason Europe is in the toilet. There's no other reason. Ya see, indirectly it's OUR fault. They'd be hunky-dory without our sub-prime mortgage market. :D

Ahhh, how simple it is to figure things out when you look at them through the eyes of a simpleton.
If there is a simpleton here, burgerboy, it is you. One, NJ Stinks did not say it was the only cause. Two, it has been well documented that the cause of the world wide recession was the housing crisis and the money lost by financial institutions due to speculative investments. Continue to live in your fantasy world if you like, NJ and I will live in the world of reality.

[mostpost]

[QUOTE=ArlJim78]I wish this were true, but in my lifetime conservatives have never run this country. It's been on an ever increasing welfare state trajectory for over half a century. Why just recently we've been told how we must copy the European model. ha! great advice guys.

Obstructionism is currently our only hope as we simply can't afford any more government solutions.

A conservative would run a cost benefit analysis before spending. The big government folks that run our country think no benefit is too small and no cost too high.

Government interference, government regulation, government picking winners and losers, government market manipulation, excessive government spending; these are what have stymied the growth in this country.
And we won't have growth until people like you finally understand that government doesn't fix problems; rather, it only makes them worse. [QUOTE]
GOVERNMENT IS NOT A BUSINESS. GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE RUN LIKE A BUSINESS. Suggesting government run a cost benefit analysis on every issue is just stupid. We would not have made the Louisiana Purchase if we had subjected it to a cost benefit analysis. Alaska was called Sewards folly.
If we had put the Interstate system to such a test, I doubt if it would have ;passed. The Homestead act provide 160 acres to anyone who could improve the land. Were there any guarantees that would be profitable? The GI Bill provided scholarships and mortgage aid to returning GIs.
All these are examples of when government has fixed things. There are many more.

ETA: It was Republicans who coined the phrase "Seward's Folly" proving that even back then they were clueless Neanderthals. :lol:

[Tom]

Sounds like those pigeons are definitely smarted than some libs here! :lol:

[badcompany]

Liberal Europe is in the toilet because most of it's countries invested heavily in the U.S. sub-prime mortgage market. We are stuck in the mud for the same reason. I hope I've answered your question succinctly. And with no :rolleyes: or :bang: because it's Christmas Day.:cool:

____________________________________________


Prior to 2008, there were great differences between countries in what is now the fragile periphery of the Eurozone: Ireland did not have high levels of government debt before the crisis, Greece and Italy did. The connection between the 2007-8 financial crisis that was sparked off in the sub-prime mortgage market in the US and today’s Eurozone sovereign debt crisis is through Europe’s banks. They were shaken by the first part of the crisis, with governments intervening – most visibly in Ireland and the UK – in order to stabilize their balance sheets. Carlin notes that one of the first banks to fail in 2007 was a German bank. In France, policymakers at the time – notably current IMF director, Christine Lagarde, who was French finance minister when the crisis first broke out – complimented their banks for what seemed to be limited exposure to US sub-prime mortgages. Today, we see that French banks are no different from their peers, only that the risk they took on was more heavily concentrated in Southern Eurozone economies – Spain, Italy and Greece.

Not only does your own source contradict your assertion, but your analysis has the depth of a cellphone conversation between Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian.

The real reason for the crisis is that private sector growth cannot keep up with public sector spending.

While the U.S problems are bad, the Europeans are way worse shape simply because entreprenuership is basically dead and all the business decisions are made by bureaucrats, technocrats and apparatchiks. In other words, Europe is more Socialist.

Where is the European Apple? The European Google? The European Amazon? The European Facebook, and for that matter, the European Walmart?

[Actor]

You better see if you can get your money back on your calendar - the dates are all screwed up! :lol:
20 January 1981 - the date Reagan was sworn in. The only date that counts in my post.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't answer for Europe but the conservatives have run the U.S.A. since 1981, overseeing the destruction of the middle class. Their current policy is one of obstructionism while they await their chance to get back at the trough.Yes, that certainly was a CONSERVATIVE Congress starting in January 2007 :rolleyes: (which is the year I SHOULD have referenced in my prior reply, not 2009).

[PaceAdvantage]

you got that one wrong too. Liberals do not run Europe. In great Britain Margaret Thatcher was PM from 1979 to 1990 and John Majors from 1990 to 1997 both were conservatives. Tony Blair, who served for ten years was at best middle of the road. Christian Democrats, who are conservatives have ruled Germany 22 of the last 29 years. France has been ruled by Gaullists much of the last thirty years. Charlse de Gaulle was not a liberal.

NJ Stinks provided a good account of why Europe is in trouble.Yes, you must be right. Europe is awash in Conservatism and always has been... :rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes: :lol: (ain't Christmas anymore NJ)

Judging by the number of quick responses from Mosty, I must have struck a nerve and be on the correct path...

[BlueShoe]

Have you read Marx, Engels, Lenin?
Okay fellas, Christmas is over, everyone back to work. :D :ThmbUp:

To address the question, yes I have. Some years ago tried to wade through Das Kapital. Perhaps I had a bad translation or something, but it was sheer boredom and utter nonsense. Tried the original volume by Marx and the last two by Engels, and just could not finish them. Sure fire cure for insomnia, an example of the absurdity of communism. In more recent years have studied Lenin more closely. Am fond of quoting his more noteworthy remarks, and have done so several times here on PA and elsewhere. Study and learn from your enemy in order to defeat his plans to destroy you.

[mostpost]

Not only does your own source contradict your assertion, but your analysis has the depth of a cellphone conversation between Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian.

The real reason for the crisis is that private sector growth cannot keep up with public sector spending.

While the U.S problems are bad, the Europeans are way worse shape simply because entreprenuership is basically dead and all the business decisions are made by bureaucrats, technocrats and apparatchiks. In other words, Europe is more Socialist.

Where is the European Apple? The European Google? The European Amazon? The European Facebook, and for that matter, the European Walmart?

Congratulations on reading a simple sentence and interpreting it completely wrong. The sentence which you bolded say that one person, Christian LeGrande, complimented french banks on limited exposure. The second part states that the exposure was much more widespread than first thought.

[mostpost]

Yes, you must be right. Europe is awash in Conservatism and always has been... :rolleyes: :lol: :rolleyes: :lol: (ain't Christmas anymore NJ)

Judging by the number of quick responses from Mosty, I must have struck a nerve and be on the correct path...

I never said Europe is awash in Conservatism. I said it was not dominated by Socialists. You think that everyone who is not a rock ribbed conservative is a socialist. I understand there are many gradations between the two.

[mostpost]

Not only does your own source contradict your assertion, but your analysis has the depth of a cellphone conversation between Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashian.

The real reason for the crisis is that private sector growth cannot keep up with public sector spending.

While the U.S problems are bad, the Europeans are way worse shape simply because entreprenuership is basically dead and all the business decisions are made by bureaucrats, technocrats and apparatchiks. In other words, Europe is more Socialist.

Where is the European Apple? The European Google? The European Amazon? The European Facebook, and for that matter, the European Walmart?


Those dumb Europeans! So inferior to us, but watch out, I hear they recently discovered fire. :rolleyes: And most of them no longer wash their clothes in the river. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[badcompany]

Congratulations on reading a simple sentence and interpreting it completely wrong. The sentence which you bolded say that one person, Christian LeGrande, complimented french banks on limited exposure. The second part states that the exposure was much more widespread than first thought.

Yes, we know. Everything is wrong except the inane ramblings of a broken down old postal worker.

A few years ago, before I went to online bill payment, I had to mail a few letters but had no stamps. So, I was in the unfortunate position of having to go to the post office. When I got there, I found that both stamp machines were broken, and if I wanted to get a stamp I would have to go to a clerk, the line for whom was 20 deep.

At that point, I remembered that some candy stores in NYC sell stamps at a premium, and one of those stores was about two blocks away.

So, I leave the post office, but, before doing so, I make note of the last person on the line, as that's where I would've been standing.
I get to the store, buy the stamps, and am out in about a minute. I go back to the post office, mail the letters and take a look at the line. The person that was last when I left was still about 15 people from a clerk.

Another win for the private sector!

[Ocala Mike]

Another win for the private sector!




Not really. You had to travel four blocks out of your way, and pay a premium for the stamps. Why didn't you simply ask the proprietor of the candy store to also deliver the letters for you?

The private sector, in this case the candy store owner, is sometimes good at extracting but not so good at providing.


Ocala Mike

[badcompany]

Not really. You had to travel four blocks out of your way, and pay a premium for the stamps.

I saved 15-20 minutes. The premium I paid was more than worth it.




Why didn't you simply ask the proprietor of the candy store to also deliver the letters for you?

Ocala Mike

Uh, that would be because the Post Office has a Government-backed monopoly on mail delivery.

[Ocala Mike]

Here's the private sector in action; guy probably got a promotion for saving time on his route:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKUDTPbDhnA


Ocala Mike

[HUSKER55]

so conservatism is first in europe and socialism is second.so by mostpost, socialism is second and conservatism is next to last

"I never said Europe is awash in Conservatism. I said it was not dominated by Socialists."

stay on your game mostpost. if you ever change the shock would kill me.:D

[bigmack]

it has been well documented that the cause of the world wide recession was the housing crisis and the money lost by financial institutions due to speculative investments. Continue to live in your fantasy world if you like, NJ and I will live in the world of reality.
Dig, if you will, the collapse of EuroLeft and the pussyfication of EuroRight:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html

[Actor]

I saved 15-20 minutes. The premium I paid was more than worth it.It's trip handicapping. Candy Store was an overlay. :lol:

[bigmack]

I can't answer for Europe but the conservatives have run the U.S.A. since 1981
Any interest in trying to defend this slice of idiocy?