Biden: 'The Taliban Per Se Is Not Our Enemy'

[Dave Schwartz]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-taliban-se-not-our-enemy_613579.html

Biden: 'The Taliban Per Se Is Not Our Enemy'

In an interview with Leslie Gelb in Newsweek, Vice President Joe Biden says:

Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy. That’s critical. There is not a single statement that the president has ever made in any of our policy assertions that the Taliban is our enemy because it threatens U.S. interests. If, in fact, the Taliban is able to collapse the existing government, which is cooperating with us in keeping the bad guys from being able to do damage to us, then that becomes a problem for us.


Mosty, please spin this one for me, will you?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[JustRalph]

Lots of speculation that Obama is negotiating a deal with Taliban.....Biden is setting the table for the announcement.

[woodtoo]

The Taliban do not negotiate,they execute.Odd how bama likes to elevate
instead of eliminate them.

[DJofSD]

Joe's just channeling Chamberlain.

[elysiantraveller]

I think you are taking it somewhat out of context.

The point he is trying to make is that the United States can't go on fighting the Taliban ad infinitum... Instead as the Afghan government becomes viable negotiate its safety with the people as you leave...

I do agree he said it very poorly though...

[BlueShoe]

I do agree he said it very poorly though...
The problem is that Old Joe says almost everthing poorly. Putting his foot in his mouth is something that has long been taken for granted.

[elysiantraveller]

The problem is that Old Joe says almost everthing poorly. Putting his foot in his mouth is something that has long been taken for granted.

Yeah, I read the interview he was terrible...

[mostpost]

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-taliban-se-not-our-enemy_613579.html

Biden: 'The Taliban Per Se Is Not Our Enemy'

In an interview with Leslie Gelb in Newsweek, Vice President Joe Biden says:




Mosty, please spin this one for me, will you?


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

The difference between you (between the conservatives on this Board) and Joe Biden, is language. Biden speaks in the language of diplomacy, in subtleties. In as much as you guys speak in the language of the Neanderthal, it is difficult-impossible actually for you to understand what he said.

First, I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase "Per se". It means in and of itself. The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself. There has never been a terrorist attack by the Taliban in this country. Of course the Taliban has provide refuge for Al Qaeda and Biden addresses that when he says:
If, in fact, the Taliban is able to collapse the existing government, which is cooperating with us in keeping the bad guys from being able to do damage to us, then that becomes a problem for us. So there’s a dual track here:

On the other hand, if we can drive a wedge between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, that has to be to our advantage.

Diplomacy and Appeasement are not synonymous. Nowhere in the article does Biden suggest we stop fighting the Taliban. He just offers an alternative path to consider.

[Greyfox]

The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself.

Would you care to vacation among them and find out if they are not a threat??

[mostpost]

Joe's just channeling Chamberlain.

You need to reread your pre World War II history. Neville Chamberlain conceded control of the Sudetenland to Germany believing it would ensure "peace in our time" There is no intention now to concede control of Afghanistan to the Taliban. If any negotiations do take place-and right now that is long way away-they would only take place in the context of a strong Afghani government.

[elysiantraveller]

Would you care to vacation among them and find out if they are not a threat??

No.

I think one problem though is the way the term Taliban is thrown around. The Taliban was the group that ruled over most of Afghanistan prior to our invasion over 10 years ago now... Today the name is ambiguous at best. It can be used to describe some survivors of that regime, or just farmers pissed off at Allied Forces for destroying their crops, or young adults tired of a 10+ year military occupation, or... etc.

If you don't believe me watch Restrepo or Armadillo.

[DJofSD]

You need to reread your pre World War II history. Neville Chamberlain conceded control of the Sudetenland to Germany believing it would ensure "peace in our time" There is no intention now to concede control of Afghanistan to the Taliban. If any negotiations do take place-and right now that is long way away-they would only take place in the context of a strong Afghani government.
Yes, the snippet of pre WWII history is correct. You must have looked it up.

Go sell that load of crap somewhere else.

[JustRalph]

Mosty, You like to lecture about how much smarter you are than the rest of us. The difference between you and those who disagree with you are vast. You believe the bullshit, no matter how they say it. I am not a neanderthal, I grasp the language. I don't find it difficult nor impossible to understand Biden. You are insulting in your thrust. Your insistent condescension as a tactic to bolster your world view is tasteless and droll. You act as if you are the only person in the world who understands the true realities of the world. It is becoming tiresome and borders on loathsome. Get over your self inflated ego.

Conducting peace talks with a terrorist group is appeasement in its highest form. Diplomacy in itself offers a certain implied sensitivity to the demands and conditions of those in which you communicate. There is no favor to be had from dealing with terrorists. Declaring yourself an "insurgency" as opposed to a terrorist group changes very little.

Bush tried to negotiate with the Iraqi "insurgency" and ended up having to send an extra 60k Troops to fix the problem. The devil is the devil and no matter how hard you try, no matter how much sensitivity you show to them, they will never change their stated goal. They have been the same for centuries. You can talk all you want. They will not change unless forced to give up their power at the end of a gun.

You keep on believing and Biden and Bammy can keep tap dancing. But don't you dare try to tell me I don't have the faculties to understand the subtle nuances of our attempts at diplomacy. You sir are a fool of the highest order if you think you are smarter than those who see through the bullshit.


The difference between you (between the conservatives on this Board) and Joe Biden, is language. Biden speaks in the language of diplomacy, in subtleties. In as much as you guys speak in the language of the Neanderthal, it is difficult-impossible actually for you to understand what he said.

First, I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase "Per se". It means in and of itself. The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself. There has never been a terrorist attack by the Taliban in this country. Of course the Taliban has provide refuge for Al Qaeda and Biden addresses that when he says:

On the other hand, if we can drive a wedge between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, that has to be to our advantage.

Diplomacy and Appeasement are not synonymous. Nowhere in the article does Biden suggest we stop fighting the Taliban. He just offers an alternative path to consider.

[boxcar]

The difference between you (between the conservatives on this Board) and Joe Biden, is language. Biden speaks in the language of diplomacy, in subtleties. In as much as you guys speak in the language of the Neanderthal, it is difficult-impossible actually for you to understand what he said.

First, I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase "Per se". It means in and of itself. The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself. There has never been a terrorist attack by the Taliban in this country. Of course the Taliban has provide refuge for Al Qaeda and Biden addresses that when he says:

So....let me see if I have this right, Mr. Posty: The Taliban isn't our enemy, per se, correct? Does this mean, then, that they are friends of or an ally to the U.S.?

Boxcar

[newtothegame]

The difference between you (between the conservatives on this Board) and Joe Biden, is language. Biden speaks in the language of diplomacy, in subtleties. In as much as you guys speak in the language of the Neanderthal, it is difficult-impossible actually for you to understand what he said.

First, I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase "Per se". It means in and of itself. The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself. There has never been a terrorist attack by the Taliban in this country. Of course the Taliban has provide refuge for Al Qaeda and Biden addresses that when he says:

On the other hand, if we can drive a wedge between the Taliban and Al Qaeda, that has to be to our advantage.

Diplomacy and Appeasement are not synonymous. Nowhere in the article does Biden suggest we stop fighting the Taliban. He just offers an alternative path to consider.

Biden speaks in "subtleties".....this is a BIG F@#$%^& deal!!!!
Hate to see if he werent so subtle lol

[mostpost]

Mosty, You like to lecture about how much smarter you are than the rest of us. The difference between you and those who disagree with you are vast. You believe the bullshit, no matter how they say it. I am not a neanderthal, I grasp the language. I don't find it difficult nor impossible to understand Biden. You are insulting in your thrust. Your insistent condescension as a tactic to bolster your world view is tasteless and droll. You act as if you are the only person in the world who understands the true realities of the world. It is becoming tiresome and borders on loathsome. Get over your self inflated ego.

Conducting peace talks with a terrorist group is appeasement in its highest form. Diplomacy in itself offers a certain implied sensitivity to the demands and conditions of those in which you communicate. There is no favor to be had from dealing with terrorists. Declaring yourself an "insurgency" as opposed to a terrorist group changes very little.

Bush tried to negotiate with the Iraqi "insurgency" and ended up having to send an extra 60k Troops to fix the problem. The devil is the devil and no matter how hard you try, no matter how much sensitivity you show to them, they will never change their stated goal. They have been the same for centuries. You can talk all you want. They will not change unless forced to give up their power at the end of a gun.

You keep on believing and Biden and Bammy can keep tap dancing. But don't you dare try to tell me I don't have the faculties to understand the subtle nuances of our attempts at diplomacy. You sir are a fool of the highest order if you think you are smarter than those who see through the bullshit.

You are wrong. I do not consider myself smarter or dumber than any particular person here. What I do see is a narrowness of view. BadCompany with his everyone is a Marxist. Boxcar with his narrow view of God and religion. You with your narrow view of Islam. Every Muslim is not a terrorist. Every wannabe terrorist is not a danger. Killing Muslims makes more terrorists not less.

Sorry if I offended you. When conservatives stop taking every statement by Obama and/or Biden and portraying it in the worst possible light, perhaps I will be convinced that your intelligence is more subtle. Right now you are doing nothing to persuade me.

[mostpost]

Biden speaks in "subtleties".....this is a BIG F@#$%^& deal!!!!
Hate to see if he werent so subtle lol
Private conversation vs. public statement. Except it wasn't as private as he thought. :blush: :blush:

[Dave Schwartz]

First, I'm sure you understand the meaning of the phrase "Per se". It means in and of itself. The Taliban is not a threat to us by itself. There has never been a terrorist attack by the Taliban in this country. Of course the Taliban has provide refuge for Al Qaeda and Biden addresses that when he says:

Mosty,

So, the friend of my enemy is not, my enemy "per se." In other words, As long has my non-friends do not get together we should get along just fine, right?

Since you are so good at providing history lessons, perhaps you could help me with this one:

You remember AL Qaeda, don't you? You know, the guys who took down those big buildings in NY a few years back?

Was there a connection between Al Qaeda and Taliban? See, the way I remember it, the Taliban helped hide and provision Al Qaeda. As I recall they did everything possible to make our pursuit of Al Qaeda more difficult. Is my memory faulty?

Would you say that they played a role in the destruction of the WTC?

The answer to that last question is really the entire point, isn't it? If you say "yes," then, as I would define it, they ARE our enemies.

If you say, "no," then you've been watching too much Al Jazeera.

[boxcar]

You are wrong. I do not consider myself smarter or dumber than any particular person here. What I do see is a narrowness of view. BadCompany with his everyone is a Marxist. Boxcar with his narrow view of God and religion. You with your narrow view of Islam. Every Muslim is not a terrorist. Every wannabe terrorist is not a danger. Killing Muslims makes more terrorists not less.

Sorry if I offended you. When conservatives stop taking every statement by Obama and/or Biden and portraying it in the worst possible light, perhaps I will be convinced that your intelligence is more subtle. Right now you are doing nothing to persuade me.

Well, now you can understand why you can't be persuaded. You are so different from the rest of us "narrow-minded" folks because your "open" mind has become so saturated and constipated with all the garbage it's been swallowing whole over all these many years that you're incapable of critically filtering any of that out to accept whatever good may come your way.

But trust me on this: There's possibly only two people dumber than Biden. One would be Pelosi and the other his boss.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

You with your narrow view of Islam. Every Muslim is not a terrorist. Every wannabe terrorist is not a danger. Killing Muslims makes more terrorists not less.Let's take this gem point by point:

a) "Every Muslim is not a terrorist"...I don't recall JustRalph or anyone on this board ever writing that every Muslim is a terrorist. Care to back this accusation up with fact?

b) "Killing Muslims makes more terrorists not less"...does it? The evidence would say no. GWB killed a lot of terrorists who happened to be Muslim. Obama continues to kill terrorists who happen to be Muslim. And yet, not a single significant attack on the US mainland since September 11, 2001. Again, the facts do not support your version of the world. If there were exponentially more terrorists now, don't you think we'd be getting hit? We ARE the biggest and juciest target out there, are we not? Where is this phalanx of terrorists rushing our shores? Our borders are porous, are they not? Come on man...give your head a shake.

[Tom]

Anyone who thinks the Taliban are not a threat has been asleep for over a decade.

The only acceptable policy towards the Taliban is to kill everyone of them on sight - no questions asked.


You with your narrow view of Islam. Every Muslim is not a terrorist. Every wannabe terrorist is not a danger
----mostpost, 9/10/2011

[elysiantraveller]

]b) "Killing Muslims makes more terrorists not less"...does it? The evidence would say no. GWB killed a lot of terrorists who happened to be Muslim. Obama continues to kill terrorists who happen to be Muslim. And yet, not a single significant attack on the US mainland since September 11, 2001. Again, the facts do not support your version of the world. If there were exponentially more terrorists now, don't you think we'd be getting hit? We ARE the biggest and juciest target out there, are we not? Where is this phalanx of terrorists rushing our shores? Our borders are porous, are they not? Come on man...give your head a shake.

I agree with you.

But just to play devil's advocate here our occupation does create resentment and resistance and a lot of that just gets lumped into the name "Taliban" which in some instances is correct and in many others isn't. So to get back to the OP I think Biden was trying to convey a point, very poorly mind you, that the security of our puppet regime must be ensured either by force or negotiation before we can leave.

If someone is a supporter of our withdrawal from Afghanistan I just don't see how this is that inflammatory... if they don't... I completely see it.

[Dave Schwartz]

WHy would you want to play that role?

[elysiantraveller]

WHy would you want to play that role?

Because it helps answer your original question. I responded with:

I think you took it a little out of context.

Biden articulated what he was trying to say very poorly.

The name Taliban is pretty ambiguous at this point IMO.

And finally:

"So to get back to the OP I think Biden was trying to convey a point, very poorly mind you, that the security of our puppet regime must be ensured either by force or negotiation before we can leave.

If someone is a supporter of our withdrawal from Afghanistan I just don't see how this is that inflammatory... if they don't... I completely see it."

[woodtoo]

[

The name Taliban is pretty ambiguous at this point IMO.

And finally:

try splainen that to them:D

[johnhannibalsmith]

...Biden articulated what he was trying to say very poorly.
...

This is probably exactly correct and why Mosite is hard to comprehend when he dives into some wild dissertation about how subtle, yet sharp, Joe Biden is and that the cavemen that frequent this forum can't think on his level.

Of course, if the previous president had used some such phrasing to speak to "We the Stupid People", I doubt that Mosite would be educating us all on the inherent accuracies of such a dumb way to express his thoughts.

[NJ Stinks]

This is probably exactly correct and why Mosite is hard to comprehend when he dives into some wild dissertation about how subtle, yet sharp, Joe Biden is and that the cavemen that frequent this forum can't think on his level.

Of course, if the previous president had used some such phrasing to speak to "We the Stupid People", I doubt that Mosite would be educating us all on the inherent accuracies of such a dumb way to express his thoughts.

:15: yard penalty on John John for piling on.

[johnhannibalsmith]

:15: yard penalty on John John for piling on.

:20: yard penalty on Stinkbug for failing to crazily dream up any tangible support for his team.

[NJ Stinks]

I can assure you that I agreed 1000% with the following:

You are wrong. I do not consider myself smarter or dumber than any particular person here. What I do see is a narrowness of view.

I didn't want to give Mostpost the proverbial pat on the back because that upsets the sensibilities of the righties here too. :p

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't want to give Mostpost the proverbial pat on the back...Very intelligent on your part...

[HUSKER55]

politicians play word games because they have to squat to piss.

diplomacy is just a way of saying "no balls here" therefore no baby.

[Tom]

mostie, the WTC....it's not really gone, per se?
Those bullets and bombs being thrown at our troops in Afghanistan, not real, per se?

[fast4522]

Mosty, You like to lecture about how much smarter you are than the rest of us. The difference between you and those who disagree with you are vast. You believe the bullshit, no matter how they say it. I am not a neanderthal, I grasp the language. I don't find it difficult nor impossible to understand Biden. You are insulting in your thrust. Your insistent condescension as a tactic to bolster your world view is tasteless and droll. You act as if you are the only person in the world who understands the true realities of the world. It is becoming tiresome and borders on loathsome. Get over your self inflated ego.

Conducting peace talks with a terrorist group is appeasement in its highest form. Diplomacy in itself offers a certain implied sensitivity to the demands and conditions of those in which you communicate. There is no favor to be had from dealing with terrorists. Declaring yourself an "insurgency" as opposed to a terrorist group changes very little.

Bush tried to negotiate with the Iraqi "insurgency" and ended up having to send an extra 60k Troops to fix the problem. The devil is the devil and no matter how hard you try, no matter how much sensitivity you show to them, they will never change their stated goal. They have been the same for centuries. You can talk all you want. They will not change unless forced to give up their power at the end of a gun.

You keep on believing and Biden and Bammy can keep tap dancing. But don't you dare try to tell me I don't have the faculties to understand the subtle nuances of our attempts at diplomacy. You sir are a fool of the highest order if you think you are smarter than those who see through the bullshit.


Mostey smarter than, good luck with that!