Trakus (Again)

[Gallop58]

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but something bugs me about Trakus. When they launched there was hints that more than just the basic info would be available. A virtual cornucopia of data for all the miners to put their pick axes into. They have this T-Network for "Developers and Industry Professionals" which may or may not have this kind of information.
I see Trakus "Front End" being used at tracks to spice up the live presentation, and some time and distance data published, but no raw data per horse per race.
Why does this bug me so? I can't shake this feeling that there's a couple of guys sitting inside Trakus HQ or as part of their T-Network who have raw data out the wahzoo and are carving up the pools with some neuro-genetic-computer thingy....

Am I paranoid, or is there some legal reason to believe that no one has access to more data than all the other $2 schmucks?

Just askin'. (I guess I could ask Trakus, but posting here is more fun.)

[PatCummings]

I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but something bugs me about Trakus. When they launched there was hints that more than just the basic info would be available. A virtual cornucopia of data for all the miners to put their pick axes into. They have this T-Network for "Developers and Industry Professionals" which may or may not have this kind of information.
I see Trakus "Front End" being used at tracks to spice up the live presentation, and some time and distance data published, but no raw data per horse per race.
Why does this bug me so? I can't shake this feeling that there's a couple of guys sitting inside Trakus HQ or as part of their T-Network who have raw data out the wahzoo and are carving up the pools with some neuro-genetic-computer thingy....

Am I paranoid, or is there some legal reason to believe that no one has access to more data than all the other $2 schmucks?

Just askin'. (I guess I could ask Trakus, but posting here is more fun.)

Of maybe Trakus finds your response and answers here too! A recent Q&A with Ray Paulick's site probably answers many questions. Overall, the data is released by the racetracks that have Trakus, if they choose (most of them do, and it can be found on their websites).

http://www.paulickreport.com/features/the-breeders-cup-forum/the-breeders-cup-forum-pinpointing-trakus/

You can get all the data from Gulfstream, for example, on their website right now. Go to the Handicapping dropdown menu under their Racing page.

Enjoy!

[Tom]

The format the tacks offer it in is worthless.
So far, Trackus is the biggest loser I have seen come down the pike.

[Gallop58]

Thanks for the reply. You are indeed correct that the T-Charts info has all the info for each segment. I had not dug deep enough and had only seen the summary pages.
Thanks for the info. Another conspiracy theory debunked.

Is the Trakus info available in a data file or are people hard coding whatever the tracks are posting? (This is probably common knowledge, but as is obvious from my original questions, I seem to be behind the times...)

Good Racing,

[Gallop58]

The reason I'm interested in this is because in theory the Trakus raw data could lead to automated varient generation, would obsolete alot of the paceline generation (where people are converting lengths beaten to time, etc.) and might lead to more insights in how races are run.

It's just so self evident that (if accurate) the raw data would be a fresh wave of info for handicappers to chew on.

Personal choice and to each his own if that's a good or bad thing, I guess.

[PhantomOnTour]

I presume the lengths behind are btw that horse and the next horse and not the total lengths behind the leader, correct?

[PatCummings]

Thanks for the reply. You are indeed correct that the T-Charts info has all the info for each segment. I had not dug deep enough and had only seen the summary pages.
Thanks for the info. Another conspiracy theory debunked.

Is the Trakus info available in a data file or are people hard coding whatever the tracks are posting? (This is probably common knowledge, but as is obvious from my original questions, I seem to be behind the times...)

Good Racing,

For now, the data you see on each track's site is all that is available. We are continuing to work on greater data applications going forward - Keeneland's player's guide for Fall 2011 had some of that data available, giving bettors a chance to lend perspective to ground coverage statistics based on historical average Trakus recorded since installation there. As more tracks equip their facilities with Trakus, and more data is accumulated from existing facilities, there will be much more to come in this department.

Thanks!

[cj]

I presume the lengths behind are btw that horse and the next horse and not the total lengths behind the leader, correct?

Just like regular charts. In reality, you don't even need BLs since you have individual times.

[PatCummings]

I presume the lengths behind are btw that horse and the next horse and not the total lengths behind the leader, correct?

Correct - data relating to lengths is provided relative to the horses behind, not cumulative.

[PhantomOnTour]

Just like regular charts. In reality, you don't even need BLs since you have individual times.
Thanks, that's what i thought.
I'm excited about the data they provide...now I've gotta figure out how to implement it :D

[pondman]

You can get all the data from Gulfstream, for example, on their website right now. Go to the Handicapping dropdown menu under their Racing page.

Enjoy!

If I were a speed handicapper, I would have serious reservations when betting against someone with complete access to trakus raw data. The average joe gets just a dribble of potential information.

Fortunately I'm primarily a class handicapper who puts very little credence in past performance. This will only pressure the odds on speed horses with the highest ft/sec runs. Therefore, it's only going to help my advantage. IMO...It's a case of giving the crowd irrelevant information

[Tom]

Back to reality - Trakus will never be at every track. Get used to that idea.
Any shipper will be non-compatible unless they ship from a Trakus track.

How long has it been out there, and these pathetic little windows on a track
web site all we have so far?

As long are they are converting to beaten lengths, I say it shows no one has really grasped the technology.

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

[cj]

Back to reality - Trakus will never be at every track. Get used to that idea.
Any shipper will be non-compatible unless they ship from a Trakus track.

How long has it been out there, and these pathetic little windows on a track
web site all we have so far?

As long are they are converting to beaten lengths, I say it shows no one has really grasped the technology.

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

I think you should check out Gulfstream. They convert to beaten lengths, I don't know why, but you can just ignore them. The time for each horse at each call is given. You can also click at the top to change from "Race Summary" to each individual Point of Call. There you get not only each horse's time, but also how far he ran distance wise in each particular fraction. There isn't much else they could give other than including the run up, which I'm sure they can do if they so choose.

[pondman]

Any shipper will be non-compatible unless they ship from a Trakus track.

:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

Just to comment:

Most shippers won't conform to contemporary speed analysis. Beyer's people have always admitted this. I'd explain it as trainers using shipping as shopping for a soft race often with a different surface and distance. Frequently you'll find huge improvements when shipping, which often is explained by a class drop. I think it is more of issue of one track being superior to others as a whole, and not the dollar amount of a purse. Horses with awful past performances win. So I doesn't think it will matter if Trakus has a contract at every track. It will add to the methods of those people who are not speed handicappers.

[Tom]

I think you should check out Gulfstream.

I have - unless I'm missing something, there is a small window that you can look at - no way to download the data and really do something with it other than by pencil and paper with a limited view.

Kee used to have a large DB yo could download and get all kinds of data, but that seems to have disappeared.

Not to sound negative :rolleyes: about it, but how many years has Trakus been in use at one track or another. My yardstick for performance is Kennedy said go to the moon and back and we did it in 9 years. Close to half of that time has passed the "let's utilize Trackus" bandwagon. Put the data out there and let people who understand horse racing have at it. You, or Jeff, of Dave, or, dare I say it...ME could find some way to use it.

[cj]

I have - unless I'm missing something, there is a small window that you can look at - no way to download the data and really do something with it other than by pencil and paper with a limited view.

Kee used to have a large DB yo could download and get all kinds of data, but that seems to have disappeared.

Not to sound negative :rolleyes: about it, but how many years has Trakus been in use at one track or another. My yardstick for performance is Kennedy said go to the moon and back and we did it in 9 years. Close to half of that time has passed the "let's utilize Trackus" bandwagon. Put the data out there and let people who understand horse racing have at it. You, or Jeff, of Dave, or, dare I say it...ME could find some way to use it.

I agree, you can't really download it, but there is a lot more there than in the original days of Trakus. For now, it at least serves as a good check on the Gulfstream timer.

[RXB]

I'd be interested to know the horse's highest rate of speed within each of the individual quarter-mile fractions. They don't always just cruise along at an even rate (or an even rate of deceleration). Competitive bursts do occur and I'd like to know where and how fast. Trakus should have the capability to supply that data.

[PatCummings]

I'd be interested to know the horse's highest rate of speed within each of the individual quarter-mile fractions. They don't always just cruise along at an even rate (or an even rate of deceleration). Competitive bursts do occur and I'd like to know where and how fast. Trakus should have the capability to supply that data.

That information is available, in some form, within segments of the race.

Click on the drop down menu on each chart, which defaults to "Race Summary" and choose an individual point-of-call. The average speed they clocked over the individual, internal fraction will be listed on the left side, along with other data for that segment of the race, while cumulative race data is on the right side (this includes the peak speed the horse hit during the race). Here is the direct link to Gulfstream's Trakus charts, available through their website.

http://tnetwork.trakus.com/dsi2007/Gulfstream.aspx

[RXB]

That information is available, in some form, within segments of the race.


I know Trakus offers peak cumulative, but not peak fractional. At least I've never seen it.

There would have to be enough of a market for them to supply data in a more realized form, but purely from an idealist view there are so many things that could be done. For example, you could set it up so that someone could choose a specific point of the race, say by feet travelled or by picking the point on a graphic representation of the track layout, and receive a graphic containing each horse's precise position on the track when the leader (or any horse of their choice) reached that point plus each horse's rate of speed at that moment.

[Buchan]

I think you should check out Gulfstream. They convert to beaten lengths, I don't know why, but you can just ignore them. The time for each horse at each call is given. You can also click at the top to change from "Race Summary" to each individual Point of Call. There you get not only each horse's time, but also how far he ran distance wise in each particular fraction. There isn't much else they could give other than including the run up, which I'm sure they can do if they so choose.

There is lots you can get, but the question is how accurate is what you get?

Singapore uses Trakus and they sometimes have nonsensical values for various things like the first 100 metres(i'm from aust and we spell correctly :p !!), being 80 metres.
This in spite of other races on the card starting in exactly the same position and being called 101 metres!
Then there is the fact that the values sometimes change.
In other words they put their whizz bang numbers on their site, and 3 days later they may be completely different! :eek:

it's potentially great, but for me it is not remotely trustworthy, and my ex hubby steveb, who has been a successful gambler for 30 years in australia reckons it's a fool's paradise.

[PatCummings]

There is lots you can get, but the question is how accurate is what you get?

Singapore uses Trakus and they sometimes have nonsensical values for various things like the first 100 metres(i'm from aust and we spell correctly :p !!), being 80 metres.
This in spite of other races on the card starting in exactly the same position and being called 101 metres!
Then there is the fact that the values sometimes change.
In other words they put their whizz bang numbers on their site, and 3 days later they may be completely different! :eek:

it's potentially great, but for me it is not remotely trustworthy, and my ex hubby steveb, who has been a successful gambler for 30 years in australia reckons it's a fool's paradise.

I'd be interested to hear if you have the specific dates where you believe information was spotty and we can investigate. Singapore was installed and went live in early September, and overall, the tracking has been incredibly solid, both with the in-race chicklets and the data. If you want to send me a private message, feel free to do so as well. Thanks!

[Buchan]

I'd be interested to hear if you have the specific dates where you believe information was spotty and we can investigate. Singapore was installed and went live in early September, and overall, the tracking has been incredibly solid, both with the in-race chicklets and the data. If you want to send me a private message, feel free to do so as well. Thanks!

We have been in contact with the club, and they have got back to you guys, so you should already know of concerns with the data accuracy.
How do you explain the fact that they have changed days after the event sometimes?

I will send you questions in future each time we doubt the data, because my boss would love to use it, but won't until he has no doubt of its accuracy.

Also I am wondering why there is no vision of the race starts on Trakus video?

[Buchan]

In fact here is a quick question, about one aspect of I have been unable to understand.
Random sample and in this case I am not saying it's necessarily wrong, but we have been unable to understand the logic of it.......

The first 100 metres of the 3rd race on the 4th December
ROBERT E has an average KPH of 42.7
It has a cumulative average KPH of 51.
As this is the first section, then why is cumulative average not the same as the average?
It makes no sense, because there is nothing to cumulate yet!
And this is the same for every horse in every race basically.