The one time we ALL need to Support Obama

[sammy the sage]

boy do/did I hate writng that title...why do you ask..if you don't know...I'll clue you in...

this gentleman says it better than I...a few excerpts

Suspend habeas corpus and enact martial law?
By Chris Powell
Published: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM EST
Americans seem ready to forfeit their most basic civil liberty -- actually, all their civil liberties -- without a whimper.

By a vote of 93-7 the Senate this month approved a military appropriations bill empowering the government to designate any U.S. citizen within the country as a terrorist and to have the military hold him indefinitely without trial and without the right to habeas corpus, the right to be brought before a court for a judgment on the legality of one's imprisonment.

In effect the legislation is a declaration of martial law throughout the country.

The Constitution prohibits suspension of the right of habeas corpus "unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." While habeas corpus was suspended in certain circumstances during the Civil War, there is no rebellion or invasion now and no impairment of the criminal-justice system, and the mere danger of terrorism does not constitute rebellion or invasion.

President Obama is threatening to veto the legislation

If the bill becomes law the president and his successors will gain dictatorial power, the power exercised by the worst tyrants in history -- Hitler, Stalin, and Mao -- the power to kidnap anyone off the street or out of his own home and lock him away incommunicado forever. The president will be able to do that even to members of Congress themselves, and while it would suit them right for enacting such an abomination, Americans better rise up and stop it if they don't want the country to slip into totalitarianism as Germany did in similar circumstances in 1933.


Eventually one of those decrees was the "Night and Fog" decree, under which people across Europe simply disappeared, never to be seen again.

Americans may have some vague awareness of the horror perpetrated by Germany back then. But do they have any idea of how closely they are following the Germans in what led to it? Our politicians don't seem to have any idea.

Republicans who scream about the supposed oppressiveness of a government that would require everyone to have medical insurance are rushing to give that government the power to make people disappear. And Democrats who chafe at the government's refusal to recognize same-sex marriage are ready to forfeit the longest-established and most substantial liberties because a free society can never eliminate the danger that someone can plant a bomb somewhere -- though a totalitarian society can't eliminate it either.

read total here thoughts...http://www.journalinquirer.com/articles/2011/12/12/chris_powell/doc4ee6179b321e6127406122.txt


In the end...$1 says he won't...gives him TOO much power... :faint:

[DJofSD]

We'll now see how principled Obama is.

Will he uphold his oath of office or stick to his agenda.

[Spiderman]

boy do/did I hate writng that title...why do you ask..if you don't know...I'll clue you in...

this gentleman says it better than I...a few excerpts

Suspend habeas corpus and enact martial law?
By Chris Powell
Published: Monday, December 12, 2011 1:40 PM EST
Americans seem ready to forfeit their most basic civil liberty -- actually, all their civil liberties -- without a whimper.

By a vote of 93-7 the Senate this month approved a military appropriations bill empowering the government to designate any U.S. citizen within the country as a terrorist and to have the military hold him indefinitely without trial and without the right to habeas corpus, the right to be brought before a court for a judgment on the legality of one's imprisonment.

In effect the legislation is a declaration of martial law throughout the country.

The Constitution prohibits suspension of the right of habeas corpus "unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." While habeas corpus was suspended in certain circumstances during the Civil War, there is no rebellion or invasion now and no impairment of the criminal-justice system, and the mere danger of terrorism does not constitute rebellion or invasion.

President Obama is threatening to veto the legislation

If the bill becomes law the president and his successors will gain dictatorial power, the power exercised by the worst tyrants in history -- Hitler, Stalin, and Mao -- the power to kidnap anyone off the street or out of his own home and lock him away incommunicado forever. The president will be able to do that even to members of Congress themselves, and while it would suit them right for enacting such an abomination, Americans better rise up and stop it if they don't want the country to slip into totalitarianism as Germany did in similar circumstances in 1933.


Eventually one of those decrees was the "Night and Fog" decree, under which people across Europe simply disappeared, never to be seen again.

Americans may have some vague awareness of the horror perpetrated by Germany back then. But do they have any idea of how closely they are following the Germans in what led to it? Our politicians don't seem to have any idea.

Republicans who scream about the supposed oppressiveness of a government that would require everyone to have medical insurance are rushing to give that government the power to make people disappear. And Democrats who chafe at the government's refusal to recognize same-sex marriage are ready to forfeit the longest-established and most substantial liberties because a free society can never eliminate the danger that someone can plant a bomb somewhere -- though a totalitarian society can't eliminate it either.

read total here thoughts...http://www.journalinquirer.com/articles/2011/12/12/chris_powell/doc4ee6179b321e6127406122.txt


In the end...$1 says he won't...gives him TOO much power... :faint:


The following paragraph is in the text of the article, but was omitted from your copy/paste:

"But even Connecticut U.S. Rep. Joseph D. Courtney, a liberal Democrat and a member of the committee, plans to support the martial law provision and expects it to be enacted. Courtney, who used to be a lawyer, cites as consolation the money contained in the bill for Connecticut military contractors, tens of millions of dollars for jet fighter engines manufactured by the Pratt & Whitney division of United Technologies Corp. in East Hartford and for nuclear submarines made by the Electric Boat division of General Dynamics in Groton."

This is an example of a sellout to corporations that restricts civil liberties. We all need to look at the "corporations are people" decree from the Supreme Corporation. Corporations are not people. It is absolutely wrongheaded to allow the SC decision to continue.

[Robert Goren]

It is not Obama use of it I am worried about or even his successor or his successor. Over time they will use it in more and more circumstances. Its how it be used 25 years from now that worries me. They start as tools to use against groups like Arab terrorist or the Mafia and slowly over time the number groups expands to everyone.

[Tom]

If corporations are not citizens, then neither are labor unions.
I support limiting the definition of a citizen to a single person.
Neither unions nor corporations should be allowed to contribute to campaigns. Only single citizens, and the max allowed should be 1,000 bucks per election.

[Spiderman]

If corporations are not citizens, then neither are labor unions.
I support limiting the definition of a citizen to a single person.
Neither unions nor corporations should be allowed to contribute to campaigns. Only single citizens, and the max allowed should be 1,000 bucks per election.

Support the proposed 27th Amendment to rescind the SC ruling. I, too, would go along with a cap on contributions by any entity.

[ArlJim78]

The following paragraph is in the text of the article, but was omitted from your copy/paste:

"But even Connecticut U.S. Rep. Joseph D. Courtney, a liberal Democrat and a member of the committee, plans to support the martial law provision and expects it to be enacted. Courtney, who used to be a lawyer, cites as consolation the money contained in the bill for Connecticut military contractors, tens of millions of dollars for jet fighter engines manufactured by the Pratt & Whitney division of United Technologies Corp. in East Hartford and for nuclear submarines made by the Electric Boat division of General Dynamics in Groton."

This is an example of a sellout to corporations that restricts civil liberties. We all need to look at the "corporations are people" decree from the Supreme Corporation. Corporations are not people. It is absolutely wrongheaded to allow the SC decision to continue.
It's the congressman who sold out his vote, if you are against this bill than you have only the congressman to blame, not Pratt & Whitney.

Speech, words, opinions come from people. In any case the supreme court decision you cite has nothing to do with this case. This type of thing, trading votes for pork, has been going on forever.

[Tom]

The cure for that is to elect men of character and hone to represent us.
Oh, wait, none of those guys ever run for office! D'oh!

[DJofSD]

The cure for elected officals with dubious honor and character is simple. But unfortunately, the general population can not tell are these people.

[boxcar]

We'll now see how principled Obama is.

Will he uphold his oath of office or stick to his agenda.

Has he to date upheld the oath of office?

Boxcar

[Tom]

He is more of an OAF of office.

[boxcar]

It's the congressman who sold out his vote, if you are against this bill than you have only the congressman to blame, not Pratt & Whitney.

Speech, words, opinions come from people. In any case the supreme court decision you cite has nothing to do with this case. This type of thing, trading votes for pork, has been going on forever.

It's amazing how libs don't want to understand your simple and irrefutable point -- unless, of course Pratt and Whitney literally held a gun to the congressman's head. Ultimate power and responsibility lie with the people who get to cast votes.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Well Boxie, didn't you know that BANKS are responsible for bank robberies?
And TRAINS were the problem, not Jesse James.

[sammy the sage]

and so the Crats AND Pugs continue their ENSLAVEMENT compaign of us ALL...

http://news.yahoo.com/house-senate-agree-sweeping-defense-bill-065450185.html

"The legislation would deny suspected terrorists, even U.S. citizens seized within the nation's borders, the right to trial and subject them to indefinite detention. The lawmakers made no changes to that language."

Just LIKE the Nazi's/Hitler and Stalin before them...and ALL empires BEFORE that...

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess I'm way out of touch lately, but haven't we been doing this for years?

Didn't the gov't have the power to declare a US citizen an "enemy combatant" and detain them indefinitely even before this proposed legislation?

Weren't all the Bush-bashers crying about this very thing during his administration?

Yup...I just looked up one example...Jose Padilla...held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant" as designated by GWB...

Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002 on suspicion of plotting a radiological bomb ("dirty bomb") attack. He was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President George W. Bush designated him an enemy combatant and, arguing that he was thereby not entitled to trial in civilian courts, had him transferred to a military prison. Padilla was held for three and a half years as an "enemy combatant" until, after pressure from civil liberties groups, the charge was dropped and his case was moved to a civilian court.So why exactly do we need this new legislation? I guess to make such things even easier?