Crist sounds off on NY's Palm Sunday/Easter Sunday racing ban

[jeebus1083]

http://www.drf.com/news/crist-new-york-restrictions-defy-belief

It is unfathomable how state legislators can allow such an illogical law to remain on the books when the VLTs, Lottery games, Indian gaming, and Bingo games are allowable gambling options on these two days.

I decided to bring the issue up with my Assemblyman, Jim Tedisco, who is also a member of the Assembly Racing & Wagering Committee:


Assemblyman Tedisco,

Steven Crist of the Daily Racing Form wrote a
provocative article in regards to the prohibition of horse races or wagers on an
in-state advance-deposit wagering (ADW) platform on both Palm Sunday and Easter
Sunday, describing the law as an "antiquated and unreasonable ban" given how
State Lottery games and the Video Gaming facilities at the racetracks can
operate. I side with Mr. Crist, as outside of angering a religious minority,
there is no logical or rational explanation for such a double-standard. I ask
that you read this article (http://www.drf.com/news/crist-new-york-restrictions-defy-belief),
and actively persue this matter for the greater good of people who wish to wager
on horse races.

Thanks


A day later, I received a reply from Assemblyman Tedisco's office:



Thank you for your recent email sharing your displeasure with New York State’s prohibition of horse races or wagering on both Palm Sunday and Easter.

As a member of the Assembly Racing and Wagering Committee, I always welcome suggestions especially when they could improve our state’s racing and wagering process.


After reading Steven Crist’s column, I truly understand your
plight on this issue. Your points were well made and will be fully taken
into consideration should this issue be brought up in a committee meeting.


Again, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on this
topic.


Sincerely

James N. Tedisco
110th Assembly District


I then e-mailed him again, asking when the next committee meeting was, intending not to let him off the hook. He then cited that Gary Pretlow, the chair of the committee, schedules the meetings, and that he (Tedisco) would see that the matter was brought up in the next meeting.

I have since e-mailed Assemblymen Pretlow, Bob Reilly, and State Senators Roy McDonald, and Senate committee chair John Bonacic. I am still awaiting a response from their respective offices.

I encourage all NY horseplayers, as well as those outside NY who enjoy betting on NYS racetracks, to write to your Assemblyman and State Senator, or go to the NYS Assembly or Senate site, and write to Assemblyman Pretlow and State Senator Bonacic, and fight for this archaic law to be abolished, once and for all.

[jeebus1083]

If the next committee meetings are open to the public, I plan on trying my hardest to attend.

[Cardus]

Good for you, Jeebs.

It's nice to see someone attempting to do something constructive -- reasonably -- with state legislators over here.

[classhandicapper]

I understand some of the inconsistencies is these rules, but when the industry is in such disarray I'm having a tough time understanding Crist's passion on this issue. Something like this is probably 100th on my list of things that should be changed. Not that I don't appreciate the effort. I just don't understand why he isn't writing about more pressing issues.

[cj]

I understand some of the inconsistencies is these rules, but when the industry is in such disarray I'm having a tough time understanding Crist's passion on this issue. Something like this is probably 100th on my list of things that should be changed. Not that I don't appreciate the effort. I just don't understand why he isn't writing about more pressing issues.

I was wondering that myself. Sure, it should be changed, but in the grand scheme of things it is way, way, way, way, way down on the priority list in my opinion.

[Tom]

I like the day off.

[classhandicapper]

I like the day off.

Me too. I'm not particularly religious, but I'd rather not have to look at the card and bet blindly or miss the day altogether when it's likely I am going to spend time with my family on those days (certainly on Easter).

I understand Crist's (and NYRA's) position on this. The inconsistency of the rules is preposterous and may be costing NYRA money. It's just not something that keeps me up at night since I personally like it better this way.

For someone that is not Christian or that is not religious at all it must seem like total idiocy. They'd rather be betting, making extra handle on the weekend, etc.. , but they don't have family obligations like some of us.

[JustRalph]

I understand some of the inconsistencies is these rules, but when the industry is in such disarray I'm having a tough time understanding Crist's passion on this issue. Something like this is probably 100th on my list of things that should be changed. Not that I don't appreciate the effort. I just don't understand why he isn't writing about more pressing issues.

I was wondering the same thing. This guy wields the biggest hammer in race writing. He can write about anything. He decides this is the issue du jour ?

This is another one of those moments where I feel like the race writers are no longer players. It comes with having the larger bankroll if you ask me.

The more money they can throw at races along with other things, the less connected to guys like me they become. Then again, there are less and less guys like me playing. I guess this is a mirror of other sports over the last ten years or so. Why I think it should be different I don't know.

There feels like there is this middle ground where you are either part of the intelligentsia or you are "just another grinder, player" subject to the whims of those who have the bully pulpit or the cash. There are still some enjoyable types to listen to, read etc. But they are very few.

[classhandicapper]

I was wondering the same thing. This guy wields the biggest hammer in race writing. He can write about anything. He decides this is the issue du jour ?

This is another one of those moments where I feel like the race writers are no longer players. It comes with having the larger bankroll if you ask me.

The more money they can throw at races along with other things, the less connected to guys like me they become. Then again, there are less and less guys like me playing.


If I had his stage I would be writing almost exclusively about the track take, drugs in racing, small uneconomic tracks surviving on casino money hurting the viable ones in multiple ways, handle that is still going off shore for rebates, improving the race track experience for everyone so we can create more fans, what racing can learn from the poker boom, scheduling Grade 1 races at different tracks in a less competitive way so the quality improves etc...

Then again, I don't want his job. I couldn't deal with the hate mail. :lol:

[jeebus1083]

I understand some of the inconsistencies is these rules, but when the industry is in such disarray I'm having a tough time understanding Crist's passion on this issue. Something like this is probably 100th on my list of things that should be changed. Not that I don't appreciate the effort. I just don't understand why he isn't writing about more pressing issues.

When you think about it, the Palm Sunday/Easter Sunday ban in NY is a pressing issue, as the amount of money wagered by New Yorkers both on live and out-of-state races is significant.

Point #1: Handle that would have gone on Aqueduct (or any horse racing product running in NY) re-directs elsewhere, or is lost entirely.

Point #2: Out-of-state simulcasts (e.g. Santa Anita, Gulfstream, Keeneland) lose out on any handle generated by the NY tracks and OTBs.

Point #3: Major stakes races, especially Triple Crown preps, become unaccessible to New Yorkers, thus, the tracks lose NY handle that way. I have watched preps and other major races on ESPN over the years that looked like supreme betting affairs, but were unavailable to New Yorkers.

Point #4: Major exotic wagers, such as a Pick 6 carryover, become unaccessible to New Yorkers. Why do you think Gulfstream forced its Rainbow 6 carryover into a mandatory payday last season? New Yorkers would have gotten the shaft.

All of this ties into your argument that the industry is in disarray. By leaving New York out of the equation, it is even more so in disarray, as the current laws disenfranchise New Yorkers.

Of course the obvious solution would be for a player to open an account with either an out-of-state ADW, or an offshore shop. If a player wants to play THAT badly, they will do so, but should it have to be necessary?

It is a farce, plain and simple, to think that the sounds of one-armed bandits will be echoing throughout Aqueduct on Palm and Easter Sundays, yet horse racing, a form of gambling that is older than the State Lottery that controls the VLTs, is illegal.

Gambling is gambling.

[aaron]

It must have been a slow day. As others have mentioned on the list of priorities for racing,this is not that important.
I would have rather seen him write an article on the ridiculous Pick 6 scratch rules.

[classhandicapper]

When you think about it, the Palm Sunday/Easter Sunday ban in NY is a pressing issue, as the amount of money wagered by New Yorkers both on live and out-of-state races is significant.

Point #1: Handle that would have gone on Aqueduct (or any horse racing product running in NY) re-directs elsewhere, or is lost entirely.

Point #2: Out-of-state simulcasts (e.g. Santa Anita, Gulfstream, Keeneland) lose out on any handle generated by the NY tracks and OTBs.

Point #3: Major stakes races, especially Triple Crown preps, become unaccessible to New Yorkers, thus, the tracks lose NY handle that way. I have watched preps and other major races on ESPN over the years that looked like supreme betting affairs, but were unavailable to New Yorkers.

Point #4: Major exotic wagers, such as a Pick 6 carryover, become unaccessible to New Yorkers. Why do you think Gulfstream forced its Rainbow 6 carryover into a mandatory payday last season? New Yorkers would have gotten the shaft.

All of this ties into your argument that the industry is in disarray. By leaving New York out of the equation, it is even more so in disarray, as the current laws disenfranchise New Yorkers.

Of course the obvious solution would be for a player to open an account with either an out-of-state ADW, or an offshore shop. If a player wants to play THAT badly, they will do so, but should it have to be necessary?

It is a farce, plain and simple, to think that the sounds of one-armed bandits will be echoing throughout Aqueduct on Palm and Easter Sundays, yet horse racing, a form of gambling that is older than the State Lottery that controls the VLTs, is illegal.

Gambling is gambling.

If I'm not mistaken (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), NYRA gets other racing dates to replace those two Sundays. Given that some people won't be betting on those Sundays that normally do, it may be close to a wash.

I have accounts at NYRA, the DRF and elsewhere. I've had multiple accounts off shore, at YouBet, NYCOTB, and elsewhere in the past. There are pluses and minuses to each. I want to make sure I can bet all the tracks and see all the races live. The way things are organized now, sometimes one service has things the other doesn't. (now that's something to write about!!!!)

If I wanted to bet on Easter I'd make sure I had an account that allowed me to or I'd make a trip to the Meadowlands or something. To me, anyone that's not religious or feels inconvenienced by the track being closed has about a million ways to get their bets in if they want. Who knows, I may even bet that day. ;)

Point being, I'm not disagreeing with the point being made by you and Crist. I just think it's 100th on the list of things that need to be fixed and addressed because some people prefer those days off. As Aaron said, it must have been a slow news day.

[Robert Goren]

It doesn't hurt to throw the religious nuts like me a bone every now and then.

[jeebus1083]

It doesn't hurt to throw the religious nuts like me a bone every now and then.

Knowing Albany, it wouldn't be surprising if it was a "bone"... :bang:

[Tom]

Stevie writes about this, CJ writes about a GROSS incompetence going on at Gulfstream - still!

No wonder I never read Crist. There is more useful racing stuff right here at PA than you will get from the entire community of "racing writers," except for a couple.

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, I thought it was a pretty timely piece considering the casino has just opened and apparently will be allowed to run full steam on those two days.

It would be pretty silly of Crist to ignore this blatant hypocrisy if you ask me, so those criticizing him for writing on the subject might want to rethink their position.

It's not like this is the only article he's going to write for the next 12 months.

[cj]

Actually, I thought it was a pretty timely piece considering the casino has just opened and apparently will be allowed to run full steam on those two days.

It would be pretty silly of Crist to ignore this blatant hypocrisy if you ask me, so those criticizing him for writing on the subject might want to rethink their position.

It's not like this is the only article he's going to write for the next 12 months.

It isn't that big a deal that he wrote it. But lets be honest, he writes it often, at least annually and sometimes more than that.

Just to be clear, I love Crist's writing and think he is great for bettors. It is for that reason I wish he would tackle a few other, newer, more important issues.

[OTM Al]

I think it was just a matter of timing. Gulfstream's open got him thinking of that ridiculous pick 6 bet of theirs and that reminded him that once again it is likely to have a big carry on the only day it is actually worth playing, a day in which horseracing is closed in New York. Guy is a pick six junkie and he does not want to be denied of a potentially big payoff on his favorite kind of bet

[classhandicapper]

Actually, I thought it was a pretty timely piece considering the casino has just opened and apparently will be allowed to run full steam on those two days.

It would be pretty silly of Crist to ignore this blatant hypocrisy if you ask me, so those criticizing him for writing on the subject might want to rethink their position.

It's not like this is the only article he's going to write for the next 12 months.

Do you mean the position that some people that play NY actually want Easter off because they are always with family?

Do you mean the position that he is correct about the hypocrisy but there are 100 other more important things to complain about that he hasn't spent any time addressing in years because it wouldn't be in his or the DRF's interests?

It was no big deal and I didn't mean to turn it into some passionate debate, but that article was about two things.

1. He's mildly inconvenienced as a gambler by rules that were put in place to respect the religious observations of others that he doesn't care about

2. NYRA "thinks" it might be able to get more handle if it was open on Easter and he always supports NYRA

I have no problem with either of those positions, but they are somewhat self interested positions. You could just as easily complain that the casino should be closed too. They close the stock market on Good Friday. So they would certainly be closed on Easter also if there was trading on Sundays. It's no big deal though.

[NTamm1215]

Do you mean the position that some people that play NY actually want Easter off because they are always with family?

Do you mean the position that he is correct about the hypocrisy but there are 100 other more important things to complain about that he hasn't spent any time addressing in years because it wouldn't be in his or the DRF's interests?

It was no big deal and I didn't mean to turn it into some passionate debate, but that article was about two things.

1. He's mildly inconvenienced as a gambler by rules that were put in place to respect the religious observations of others that he doesn't care about

2. NYRA "thinks" it might be able to get more handle if it was open on Easter and he always supports NYRA

I have no problem with either of those positions, but they are somewhat self interested positions. You could just as easily complain that the casino should be closed too. They close the stock market on Good Friday. So they would certainly be closed on Easter also if there was trading on Sundays. It's no big deal though.

It was a column, meaning the very nature of it was to address a self-interested position. It seems relatively clear that Steve Crist takes his position as the de facto voice of horseplayers VERY seriously. He has taken to task numerous entities that he feels mistreat horseplayers, has been an advocate for the game with his voice, keyboard, and wallet, and has graciously shared his thoughts with those that are interested for years.

The fact that you feel like the Easter Sunday/Palm Sunday situation is not worthy of being addressed in a column is your opinion. It's Crist's opinion that it should be addressed. However, to say that there are 100 things that he hasn't addressed in years is as foolish as it is untrue. If Crist has so flippantly avoided the "major" issues in racing, who by chance addresses those on a regular basis?

[aaron]

It was a column, meaning the very nature of it was to address a self-interested position. It seems relatively clear that Steve Crist takes his position as the de facto voice of horseplayers VERY seriously. He has taken to task numerous entities that he feels mistreat horseplayers, has been an advocate for the game with his voice, keyboard, and wallet, and has graciously shared his thoughts with those that are interested for years.

The fact that you feel like the Easter Sunday/Palm Sunday situation is not worthy of being addressed in a column is your opinion. It's Crist's opinion that it should be addressed. However, to say that there are 100 things that he hasn't addressed in years is as foolish as it is untrue. If Crist has so flippantly avoided the "major" issues in racing, who by chance addresses those on a regular basis?
Crist could have addressed:1-why no pick 5 in NY.
2-why does there have to be 7 horses in a race for a super.
3-why is the scratch rules in the pick bets not uniform.
4-why are trainers who have medication infractions treated so lightly.
5-why is the "Racing F
orm" the most expensive Daily Paper in America.
6-Why doesn't the "Form show the inner and main turf courses as separate courses.
7-Why does the NYRA part of Aqueduct look like it will never be improved.
8-Why is the takeout not being reduced now that the state has all this extra money coming in.
9-How come NYRA charges $2.50 for a simulcast program,but gives it away for free to owners,but not bettors.
10-He could justify the reason the "form" charges an extra $1.00 on Saturday's.
11-If the track should be open on Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday,why not Xmas eve and Xmas day,after all the casino will be open.
12-Why is there no cross promotion between the casino and the races. None of the tv's in the casino showed races.

[classhandicapper]

It was a column, meaning the very nature of it was to address a self-interested position. It seems relatively clear that Steve Crist takes his position as the de facto voice of horseplayers VERY seriously. He has taken to task numerous entities that he feels mistreat horseplayers, has been an advocate for the game with his voice, keyboard, and wallet, and has graciously shared his thoughts with those that are interested for years.

The fact that you feel like the Easter Sunday/Palm Sunday situation is not worthy of being addressed in a column is your opinion. It's Crist's opinion that it should be addressed. However, to say that there are 100 things that he hasn't addressed in years is as foolish as it is untrue. If Crist has so flippantly avoided the "major" issues in racing, who by chance addresses those on a regular basis?

I'll spell it out. The reason I even commented to begin with was that IMO the column didn't come off well. I've also heard it before.

Maybe I read it incorrectly, but it came off as totally dismissive of a religious holiday, religious people, and totally unaware that some (many?) horse players spend time with family that day and might actually want the day off. He's so correct about the hypocrisy of the policy, you can't argue with him. But IMO he made the case in a way that left me a little resentful even though I'm not even religious.

Also, If he's so worried about the fact that a few NY players might open out of state accounts because the track will be closed on Easter, he would be better off writing about NYRA's online software.

I don't use my NYRA online account. I actually like my "DRF BETS" account better because it has a few nice features. That's the DRF's platform! It's powered by Expressbet!

Do you see a problem or conflict there?

I don't want to come off as anti Crist, anti NYRA, or anti anything else.

I want NYRA to succeed and think Crist can be an important voice in making things better. But there are bigger problems than this, IMO the article could have be done better, and I wish he wasn't just a mouth piece for NYRA so often. NYRA isn't perfect, yet he often takes biased pro NYRA positions.

I've already said way more about this than it really means to me. I should have stopped 3-4 posts ago.

[OTM Al]

Crist could have addressed:1-why no pick 5 in NY.
2-why does there have to be 7 horses in a race for a super.
3-why is the scratch rules in the pick bets not uniform.
4-why are trainers who have medication infractions treated so lightly.
5-why is the "Racing F
orm" the most expensive Daily Paper in America.
6-Why doesn't the "Form show the inner and main turf courses as separate courses.
7-Why does the NYRA part of Aqueduct look like it will never be improved.
8-Why is the takeout not being reduced now that the state has all this extra money coming in.
9-How come NYRA charges $2.50 for a simulcast program,but gives it away for free to owners,but not bettors.
10-He could justify the reason the "form" charges an extra $1.00 on Saturday's.
11-If the track should be open on Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday,why not Xmas eve and Xmas day,after all the casino will be open.
12-Why is there no cross promotion between the casino and the races. None of the tv's in the casino showed races.

1. Who cares? There's a P4 and a P6. Isn't that enough?
2, To save people like you from themselves. Why the hell would you bet a super in a six horse field?
3. Pehaps the only reasonable question here.
4. Yes, they all should be shot.
5. Because most dailies don't exist to help you make money. Don't buy it if you feel it costs too much.
6. It does.
7. Because they haven't gotten money yet to start making changes. The casino isn't even finished yet. Calm down.
8. ibid.
9. Life isn't fair.
10. Because they can and people pay.
11. Can't you take one day off? Maybe the employees might like those days off to be with their families? Have you noticed how everyone is closed on Christmas and almost everyone the day before?
12. See 7 and 8

[dnlgfnk]

I enjoy Mr. Christ's writing, and agree with him often. There are two opinions he holds, however, that subtly suggest that my Christianity is a minor irritant to him.

The first being the item under discussion presently, the second being the disdain for the song choice (O Happy Day) when Secretariat zooms down the stretch to close out the recent movie about him. The choice seemed in keeping with Eddie Sweat's persona.

[Beachbabe]

I don't want to come off as anti Crist, anti NYRA, or anti anything else.



I don't think anyone would call you The Anti-Crist. ;)

[classhandicapper]

I enjoy Mr. Christ's writing, and agree with him often. There are two opinions he holds, however, that subtly suggest that my Christianity is a minor irritant to him.

The first being the item under discussion presently, the second being the disdain for the song choice (O Happy Day) when Secretariat zooms down the stretch to close out the recent movie about him. The choice seemed in keeping with Eddie Sweat's persona.

I'm so happy you made the same observation. I had the same exact feeling when I read his review of Secretariat and I think that article fed into my perception of this one.

[PaceAdvantage]

Maybe I read it incorrectly, but it came off as totally dismissive of a religious holiday, religious people, and totally unaware that some (many?) horse players spend time with family that day and might actually want the day off.What exactly is stopping you from not playing on that day, even if the track is open?

[PaceAdvantage]

I enjoy Mr. Christ's writing, and agree with him often. There are two opinions he holds, however, that subtly suggest that my Christianity is a minor irritant to him.

The first being the item under discussion presently, the second being the disdain for the song choice (O Happy Day) when Secretariat zooms down the stretch to close out the recent movie about him.Wow. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm so happy you made the same observation. I had the same exact feeling when I read his review of Secretariat and I think that article fed into my perception of this one.Wow Squared.

[aaron]

1. Who cares? There's a P4 and a P6. Isn't that enough?
2, To save people like you from themselves. Why the hell would you bet a super in a six horse field?
3. Pehaps the only reasonable question here.
4. Yes, they all should be shot.
5. Because most dailies don't exist to help you make money. Don't buy it if you feel it costs too much.
6. It does.
7. Because they haven't gotten money yet to start making changes. The casino isn't even finished yet. Calm down.
8. ibid.
9. Life isn't fair.
10. Because they can and people pay.
11. Can't you take one day off? Maybe the employees might like those days off to be with their families? Have you noticed how everyone is closed on Christmas and almost everyone the day before?
12. See 7 and 8Al-doesn't show records of inner and main turf in record box.
1-Bettors probably would like a $.50 pick 5.
5 and 10
Explain how he is helping the player by raising prices on the Form.I didn't say not to buy it.I think there past performances are fine,but to gauge the player because you can is a silly answer.
6-It doesn't show the difference in the record box between inner and main.
9-Good answer,thanks for the information.When did you figure that out ? Charge $2.50,but don't give it away free and say the reason you are charging that amount is because of the high cost of printing.
11-Actually,I think its fine if the track remains closed on Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday. I also feel the Xmas break is good.I only mentioned opening on Xmas Day to show his article was just something to write about on a slow day.
I actually think racing would be better with 4 day weeks during the winter,and % day weeks at Saratoga,but that's not going to happen.

[FenceBored]

Wow. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

Maybe he's got a point?

The movie ends with Secretariat’s historic Belmont Stakes victory, and as the re-creation of the race (staged at Keeneland) reaches its crescendo, the Edwin Hawkins spiritual “Oh Happy Day!” plays behind a slow-motion stretch run. It’s a catchy song, but what in the world does “Oh Happy Day/When Jesus washed/He washed our sins away” have to do with Secretariat winning the Belmont by 31 lengths?

This unseemly insertion of religion into the story appears to stem from the director Randall Wallace, a former seminary student who has said that his Christianity “informs” his moviemaking decisions, and who has been actively promoting the film to “faith-based” audiences.
-- http://www.drf.com/news/secretariat-good-story-its-not-history
Note the scare quotes around "informs" and "faith-based." Don't know (or really care) if Crist holds the devoutly religious in low regard, but I can certainly see how this excerpt might give someone that impression.

[OTM Al]

Al-doesn't show records of inner and main turf in record box.
1-Bettors probably would like a $.50 pick 5.
5 and 10
Explain how he is helping the player by raising prices on the Form.I didn't say not to buy it.I think there past performances are fine,but to gauge the player because you can is a silly answer.
6-It doesn't show the difference in the record box between inner and main.
9-Good answer,thanks for the information.When did you figure that out ? Charge $2.50,but don't give it away free and say the reason you are charging that amount is because of the high cost of printing.
11-Actually,I think its fine if the track remains closed on Palm Sunday and Easter Sunday. I also feel the Xmas break is good.I only mentioned opening on Xmas Day to show his article was just something to write about on a slow day.
I actually think racing would be better with 4 day weeks during the winter,and % day weeks at Saratoga,but that's not going to happen.

And if you showed different records for each then people would complain because the record didn't take into account the placing of the rail. There is a limit to how far you can go into this.

The betting menu in NY is as full as any other one in the country. I don't see where adding yet another bet, and especially one like a pick 5 is of that much benefit. Most tracks where it has been instituted didn't have a pick 6 and franky it's a gimic. It's probably making pools in other bets at those tracks go up and drawing in more that way than on the bet itself. New York has $.50 pick 4s. The odds against you on those are steep enough. I believe the pick 5 is a bad bet played mostly by people who have no business being involved in it, so if you have interest in protecting the average bettor, I would advocate not adopting this thing.

DRF is in the business of supplying information, not helping the player. They are a business. If they find that they can make more by charging a dollar more on Saturday because people will pay for it, then they should. If you believe their info is good, then that info is giving you a chance to win a hell of a lot more than $6. From an economic perspective, $6 may well be a hell of a deal. Because you can is the most honest answer their is in business, because it's true.

Sorry you don't like the concept that life isn't fair, but it isn't. Owners have been given certain privelages because of their position. One is to get a free program. Given they've invested quite a bit more money in the game in one shot than I'm likely to in a year and my odds of finishing ahead are a hell of a lot better than theirs, I'm not going to begrudge them a free program.

A clarification as well. Supers are accepted on 6 horse fields in NY for the last couple months. I believe it has to scratch down to that, but still. I also feel anyone betting a super on a six horse field is insane.

I am to understand from someone who we both know that you are a good guy, but really I have to get on you for some of this stuff as much is uninformed and much the rest is really kind of lame. The most wearing thing to me in the game is whining about stuff that isn't significant. You have one real point in all 12 and that is a unification of the horizontal wager rules. That makes sense and would clear up problems with those too foolish to actually read the rules before they bet and somehow think that is someone else's fault.

[aaron]

And if you showed different records for each then people would complain because the record didn't take into account the placing of the rail. There is a limit to how far you can go into this.

The betting menu in NY is as full as any other one in the country. I don't see where adding yet another bet, and especially one like a pick 5 is of that much benefit. Most tracks where it has been instituted didn't have a pick 6 and franky it's a gimic. It's probably making pools in other bets at those tracks go up and drawing in more that way than on the bet itself. New York has $.50 pick 4s. The odds against you on those are steep enough. I believe the pick 5 is a bad bet played mostly by people who have no business being involved in it, so if you have interest in protecting the average bettor, I would advocate not adopting this thing.

DRF is in the business of supplying information, not helping the player. They are a business. If they find that they can make more by charging a dollar more on Saturday because people will pay for it, then they should. If you believe their info is good, then that info is giving you a chance to win a hell of a lot more than $6. From an economic perspective, $6 may well be a hell of a deal. Because you can is the most honest answer their is in business, because it's true.

Sorry you don't like the concept that life isn't fair, but it isn't. Owners have been given certain privelages because of their position. One is to get a free program. Given they've invested quite a bit more money in the game in one shot than I'm likely to in a year and my odds of finishing ahead are a hell of a lot better than theirs, I'm not going to begrudge them a free program.

A clarification as well. Supers are accepted on 6 horse fields in NY for the last couple months. I believe it has to scratch down to that, but still. I also feel anyone betting a super on a six horse field is insane.

I am to understand from someone who we both know that you are a good guy, but really I have to get on you for some of this stuff as much is uninformed and much the rest is really kind of lame. The most wearing thing to me in the game is whining about stuff that isn't significant. You have one real point in all 12 and that is a unification of the horizontal wager rules. That makes sense and would clear up problems with those too foolish to actually read the rules before they bet and somehow think that is someone else's fault.
I don't mind you getting on me. I just think you have a "know it all attitude" and anytime someone disagrees with you,you assume they have no point.I know that most of the things,I have mentioned there is nothing you can do to change them,that doesn't mean they are the correct things to do.
Part of what is wrong in society is that people don't do the right thing and racing is just a microcosm of this.So you attitude that they can probably shows the type of beliefs you have. So they can doesn't make it right. Trainers cheat because they can. Is that good for the game or right ?

[classhandicapper]

What exactly is stopping you from not playing on that day, even if the track is open?

Nothing at all. It's just a personal preference no different than those that want to play that day. I play every day, hate missing a day of action, and suspect that many other people spend time with family and feel the same way.

That's wasn't my problem with the article. I explained my problems with the article.

[OTM Al]

I don't mind you getting on me. I just think you have a "know it all attitude" and anytime someone disagrees with you,you assume they have no point.I know that most of the things,I have mentioned there is nothing you can do to change them,that doesn't mean they are the correct things to do.
Part of what is wrong in society is that people don't do the right thing and racing is just a microcosm of this.So you attitude that they can probably shows the type of beliefs you have. So they can doesn't make it right. Trainers cheat because they can. Is that good for the game or right ?

And I would respond and say in most cases I am only quoting facts available to anyone if they just looked. I think most people who disagree with me are wrong and generally I won't say anything unless I think what they say is completely misinformed. There were several things you said that fit that category. Further, I have just been informed that supers are taken on 6 horse races even without scratches. I remember the change I listed, but not that one, so my bad. As I said, I never place that bet so I don't pay that much attention to it.

Another thing theat is "wrong" with society is people feel they are entitled to whatever they want and what they want they must have RIGHT NOW. What's better for you isn't always better for them. You're begrudging a business for trying to make money because you want to buy their product for less. Well, everybody would like something for free, but that would pretty much result in the product vanishing pretty quick and then you can't get it for any price. Which do you prefer? You have a choice to buy what you want or bet what you want. What I grow weary of is people who bet bet bet and then complain complain complain. And then go bet some more. This is what makes no sense. If the DRF found that raising it's price didn't work, they would have lowered it again. They didn't, so guess what?

Right and wrong are subjective beliefs. We say murder is wrong because soicety says so and we are social beings. If society said murder was ok, would we still consider it wrong? A business exists to maximize its profits. Raising or lower its prices for its products are done solely in pursuit of that goal. There is no right or wrong involved. You feel it is wrong because you don't want to pay for it.

Cheaters have always been around in every sport ever since time began. Go read the Aeneid. There is a foot race during a festival of games in either book 4 or 5 if I remember, and the contestants cheat. It's part of the game, always has been, and is something you better be accounting for. Are you telling me that if you identified a "cheating" trainer you wouldn't try to cash tickets on him? Or would that be wrong?

Maybe you find me arrogant. I say tough. Argue with me and if you make a point to persuade me, I'll admit to it. But I won't back down from the way I feel. Too much unthinking blather going on in cyberspace and the real world, and I think that is wrong....

[classhandicapper]

Wow Squared.

I suggest you read both articles.

I read about 10 reviews of "Secretariat" (most weren't particularly flattering) and no one else seemed to be particularly concerned that a Christian song was used or that it may have created some kind of religious undertone. I didn't even notice or think about it until Crist panned it for that reason (among others).

Now he's lumping anyone that would like to have Easter off into the category of religious "zealots" because he can't get his "carry over" bets in.

I'm probably among the least religious people here. But like I said, right or wrong, when I read the piece I came away feeling a little resentful. Maybe my perceptions are just off, but IMO there were way better ways to talk about the hypocrisy and way way more important things to talk about that he never touches.

[aaron]

And I would respond and say in most cases I am only quoting facts available to anyone if they just looked. I think most people who disagree with me are wrong and generally I won't say anything unless I think what they say is completely misinformed. There were several things you said that fit that category. Further, I have just been informed that supers are taken on 6 horse races even without scratches. I remember the change I listed, but not that one, so my bad. As I said, I never place that bet so I don't pay that much attention to it.

Another thing theat is "wrong" with society is people feel they are entitled to whatever they want and what they want they must have RIGHT NOW. What's better for you isn't always better for them. You're begrudging a business for trying to make money because you want to buy their product for less. Well, everybody would like something for free, but that would pretty much result in the product vanishing pretty quick and then you can't get it for any price. Which do you prefer? You have a choice to buy what you want or bet what you want. What I grow weary of is people who bet bet bet and then complain complain complain. And then go bet some more. This is what makes no sense. If the DRF found that raising it's price didn't work, they would have lowered it again. They didn't, so guess what?

Right and wrong are subjective beliefs. We say murder is wrong because soicety says so and we are social beings. If society said murder was ok, would we still consider it wrong? A business exists to maximize its profits. Raising or lower its prices for its products are done solely in pursuit of that goal. There is no right or wrong involved. You feel it is wrong because you don't want to pay for it.

Cheaters have always been around in every sport ever since time began. Go read the Aeneid. There is a foot race during a festival of games in either book 4 or 5 if I remember, and the contestants cheat. It's part of the game, always has been, and is something you better be accounting for. Are you telling me that if you identified a "cheating" trainer you wouldn't try to cash tickets on him? Or would that be wrong?

Maybe you find me arrogant. I say tough. Argue with me and if you make a point to persuade me, I'll admit to it. But I won't back down from the way I feel. Too much unthinking blather going on in cyberspace and the real world, and I think that is wrong....So in your opinion it is all right for cheaters to exist. I know you don't believe juice trainers should go unpunished. The perception that people cheat in racing is probably one of the main reasons that racing has become a secondary sport. I understand businesses are entitled to charge what they want and I won't stop buying the "Form",but an extra dollar on Saturday is just a slap in the face. I also think owners should get the programs for free,but why should players be ripped off ? Again,because they can. They throw away more of these programs than they sell.I don't feel I have to have pick 5,but I do feel the player should be able to play any bet he wants.
I hardly ever play the Pick 6,but I feel its the best bet in racing if played properly and by properly,I don't mean investing thousands of dollars. I'm just not that good at it.
The lottery is legal and most people shouldn't play it,does that mean it should't exist ?
We just opened the casino and for many individuals it will do more harm than good.Does that mean legalizing VLT's is a bad thing ?
According to your logic,racing should have closed down because it cannot be profitable on its own.There are many reasons this has happened some the fault of racing and many the fault of government.
What happens if one day the casino's decide having racing is just sucking away profits from them ? Should racing just close down ?
I don't have the answers,maybe you do.

[OTM Al]

So in your opinion it is all right for cheaters to exist. I know you don't believe juice trainers should go unpunished. The perception that people cheat in racing is probably one of the main reasons that racing has become a secondary sport. I understand businesses are entitled to charge what they want and I won't stop buying the "Form",but an extra dollar on Saturday is just a slap in the face. I also think owners should get the programs for free,but why should players be ripped off ? Again,because they can. They throw away more of these programs than they sell.I don't feel I have to have pick 5,but I do feel the player should be able to play any bet he wants.
I hardly ever play the Pick 6,but I feel its the best bet in racing if played properly and by properly,I don't mean investing thousands of dollars. I'm just not that good at it.
The lottery is legal and most people shouldn't play it,does that mean it should't exist ?
We just opened the casino and for many individuals it will do more harm than good.Does that mean legalizing VLT's is a bad thing ?
According to your logic,racing should have closed down because it cannot be profitable on its own.There are many reasons this has happened some the fault of racing and many the fault of government.
What happens if one day the casino's decide having racing is just sucking away profits from them ? Should racing just close down ?
I don't have the answers,maybe you do.

Didn't say it was ok, just said it was, is and always has been. Only the idiots get caught, so exactly what should a player do if he'd like to keep playing? You have to recognize that it is there, keep an eye out for it, and adjust your behavior accordingly. Others are paid to try to catch them. Let them do their job, but like I said, they will never catch the good ones no matter what.

Again, players being "ripped off" for programs is a value judgement. Not worth it to you. I think everyone that bought a pet rock was ripped off, but some people wanted to. The market is setting that price. It is not a morality judgement.

Do you feel you should be able to walk into a shoe store and buy a car as well? Should all tracks be identical in everything? If you like the P6, you should hope they don't get a P5 as it will rid the P6 of most of its sucker money. I don't think they need it and if players want a pick 5, one's starting at some track pretty soon. I'd prefer some tracks specialize in certain bets to keep the pools on those as good as possible. Should we all have the place pick 9 as well?

Racing certainly can be profitable on its own. What we've seen though is damage to the more established "quality" circuits when the tracks that couldn't survive went to casinos. Do you really think many of these racinos would still be around without the 'cino? Problem is that once this reaches a critical mass, everyone has to do it or they get crushed by the stupid money in 5000 claimer races along with losing higher level horses to these places simply because of the purse structure. It's kind of like a version of the classic prisoner's dilemma game. Were many of these places already gone, the ones left would be in a much stronger position. You'd better think if that would really be a good thing though before you start advocating for it as the industry would become more monopolistic, which isn't usually so good for the customer.

I've been waiting for that day when the first racino just becomes a 'cino. Because of the differenes in gambling laws, my bet on that has always been Delaware. It's a nice place, but have a look in their program some day. No ads. They aren't doing nearly the same things to sustain as others are. Hey, maybe America has always wanted dumb and easy, and if that's the case, racing isn't for them. It's not going to die though.

[aaron]

Didn't say it was ok, just said it was, is and always has been. Only the idiots get caught, so exactly what should a player do if he'd like to keep playing? You have to recognize that it is there, keep an eye out for it, and adjust your behavior accordingly. Others are paid to try to catch them. Let them do their job, but like I said, they will never catch the good ones no matter what.

Again, players being "ripped off" for programs is a value judgement. Not worth it to you. I think everyone that bought a pet rock was ripped off, but some people wanted to. The market is setting that price. It is not a morality judgement.

Do you feel you should be able to walk into a shoe store and buy a car as well? Should all tracks be identical in everything? If you like the P6, you should hope they don't get a P5 as it will rid the P6 of most of its sucker money. I don't think they need it and if players want a pick 5, one's starting at some track pretty soon. I'd prefer some tracks specialize in certain bets to keep the pools on those as good as possible. Should we all have the place pick 9 as well?

Racing certainly can be profitable on its own. What we've seen though is damage to the more established "quality" circuits when the tracks that couldn't survive went to casinos. Do you really think many of these racinos would still be around without the 'cino? Problem is that once this reaches a critical mass, everyone has to do it or they get crushed by the stupid money in 5000 claimer races along with losing higher level horses to these places simply because of the purse structure. It's kind of like a version of the classic prisoner's dilemma game. Were many of these places already gone, the ones left would be in a much stronger position. You'd better think if that would really be a good thing though before you start advocating for it as the industry would become more monopolistic, which isn't usually so good for the customer.

I've been waiting for that day when the first racino just becomes a 'cino. Because of the differenes in gambling laws, my bet on that has always been Delaware. It's a nice place, but have a look in their program some day. No ads. They aren't doing nearly the same things to sustain as others are. Hey, maybe America has always wanted dumb and easy, and if that's the case, racing isn't for them. It's not going to die though.
The industry should have a commissioner and drug laws should be the same nationwide. There should be some rhyme or reason to where the Breeders Cup is held. NYRA does deserve to host the Cup,probably more so than the other venues. It would probably be good for the player if all venues had similar menu's and rules for scratches in the picks.How could racing in NY be profitable on its own ? They screwed this up 40 years ago and it is not easy to fix.
I like having Dutrow etc. around from a betting stand point,but that doesn't make it right.Racing may not die,but will it ever be relevant like it once was ?
In my opinion racing is a gambling game and should be promoted like that.
The media rather tell us about some trainer,than about some player who made a hit. When races are shown on network tv,the coverage and camera work is unwatchable. Maybe someone in racing should tell the networks this doesn't work.

[nijinski]

I suggest you read both articles.

I read about 10 reviews of "Secretariat" (most weren't particularly flattering) and no one else seemed to be particularly concerned that a Christian song was used or that it may have created some kind of religious undertone. I didn't even notice or think about it until Crist panned it for that reason (among others).

Now he's lumping anyone that would like to have Easter off into the category of religious "zealots" because he can't get his "carry over" bets in.

I'm probably among the least religious people here. But like I said, right or wrong, when I read the piece I came away feeling a little resentful. Maybe my perceptions are just off, but IMO there were way better ways to talk about the hypocrisy and way way more important things to talk about that he never touches.
It looks like this is his point regarding the movie , from his article.

We never hear about Secretariat’s stride, or the literal size of his heart, or the uniqueness of the racetrack accomplishments that defined him. Instead his greatness is attributed to formulaic mush about his bond with his supposedly down-on-their-luck connections (who had won the Derby a year earlier), his “will to win,” and perhaps divine intervention.

I'm not ready to say he is attacking Christianity . It seems to be his view that that's the slant the director took .

[jeebus1083]

Perhaps if the law were changed, NYRA would consider NOT racing on those days, yet remain open for simulcasting and online wagering.

This way, NYRA and the horseplayers get the best of both worlds. Horseplayers that wish to "have a day off" get the day off, while those wishing to contest the simulcast tracks are not restricted. It would allow most NYRA employees those days off, and I'm sure that there are people out there who would be jonesing for overtime or an additional shift if they are not religious.

The message is clear though: the law needs to be repealed.

[FenceBored]

It looks like this is his point regarding the movie , from his article.

We never hear about Secretariat’s stride, or the literal size of his heart, or the uniqueness of the racetrack accomplishments that defined him. Instead his greatness is attributed to formulaic mush about his bond with his supposedly down-on-their-luck connections (who had won the Derby a year earlier), his “will to win,” and perhaps divine intervention.

I'm not ready to say he is attacking Christianity . It seems to be his view that that's the slant the director took .

Ahhh, he wanted a documentary not a feature film. Got it.

[nijinski]

Ahhh, he wanted a documentary not a feature film. Got it.
A good feature film needs to leave out some of the facts and contain divine intervention ???

[5k-claim]

Ahhh, he wanted a documentary not a feature film. Got it.Not necessarily.

He may have just wanted a feature film that was pretty good, instead of a feature film that blew chunks. You know, considering it used the title 'Secretariat' and all.

The filmmakers should have just used a different title for the movie. That would have been the respectful thing to do for future google searchers. Same as with that bunch who made those dog movies named 'Beethoven'.

.

[castaway01]

Ahhh, he wanted a documentary not a feature film. Got it.

When the real-life story is 10 times more interesting and remarkable than whatever "facts" they made up for the movie, then yes, I'll take the documentary over the Hollywood crap too.

[The Hawk]

I suggest you read both articles.

I read about 10 reviews of "Secretariat" (most weren't particularly flattering) and no one else seemed to be particularly concerned that a Christian song was used or that it may have created some kind of religious undertone. I didn't even notice or think about it until Crist panned it for that reason (among others.

The fact that none of the other 10 reviews you read contained a reference to this point is no surprise to me. Crist sees things that others don't, and writes well about them. That's what he does best. That's what he did with his books, and that's what he does in his columns. It's what makes him a terrific columnist.

[nijinski]

I suggest you read both articles.

I read about 10 reviews of "Secretariat" (most weren't particularly flattering) and no one else seemed to be particularly concerned that a Christian song was used or that it may have created some kind of religious undertone. I didn't even notice or think about it until Crist panned it for that reason (among others).

Now he's lumping anyone that would like to have Easter off into the category of religious "zealots" because he can't get his "carry over" bets in.

I'm probably among the least religious people here. But like I said, right or wrong, when I read the piece I came away feeling a little resentful. Maybe my perceptions are just off, but IMO there were way better ways to talk about the hypocrisy and way way more important things to talk about that he never touches.
Actually Haskin said the use of Gospel Music for the stretch run of the Belmont was ill conceived and he thought the movie was entertaining.
Maybe someone should just ask Crist to clarify , but IMO I doubt he's tring
to attack a faith.

[FenceBored]

A good feature film needs to leave out some of the facts and contain divine intervention ???

The Ten Commandments (1956), Star Wars, Pulp Fiction. Yep, looks like.

[Cardus]

Wow. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...

I agree.

The level of abject foolishness and ignorance in this thread is incredible... until the next time.

[dnlgfnk]

To clarify:

No less than 5 regular posters, including CJ, were questioning the uneven attention given to the Easter issue and reasons for it. I thought they were ignoring a possible motivating factor, and gave my opinion. My mistake was to personify Mr. Christ as representative of the Fourth Estate's, and especially The Gray Lady's hostility towards Christianity, specifically Catholicism. If I mislabeled him, I do apologize.

My stating that as a member of the print media, he may find my faith a "minor irritant" is a far cry from being accused of claiming that "he's tring (sic) to attack a faith".

Back to the races.

[BetCrazyGirl]

There should not be a ban, it should be left up to the tracks if they want to attempt to run on those days or not (Just like any business, they can choice not too since I'm sure many would rather be with their family or choice to do so), but religion should not dictate law where it takes away choice, its forcing religion on people.

[nijinski]

To clarify:

No less than 5 regular posters, including CJ, were questioning the uneven attention given to the Easter issue and reasons for it. I thought they were ignoring a possible motivating factor, and gave my opinion. My mistake was to personify Mr. Christ as representative of the Fourth Estate's, and especially The Gray Lady's hostility towards Christianity, specifically Catholicism. If I mislabeled him, I do apologize.

My stating that as a member of the print media, he may find my faith a "minor irritant" is a far cry from being accused of claiming that "he's tring (sic) to attack a faith".

Back to the races.

Tring , the hometown of Walter Rothschild vs. a bad typo .
You can run away with it but I think you're taking it way too seriously .

[classhandicapper]

I don't think Crist is hostile to Christianity.

I have no idea what his religious beliefs are (if any) and I don't really care. It's irrelevant to me. But IMHO he seems to have a very dismissive attitude and underlying annoyance at Christian influence if it conflicts with what he wants.

He's allowed to feel that way and some of us are allowed to point out that there are way more important things wrong with racing than whether he can get his carry over bets in because of Easter but he ignores some of those and makes this a priority.

No one but me seems to realize what the biggest problem with the article was even though I mentioned it earlier.

He said not having betting on Palm Sunday and Easter might encourage NY bettors to open out of state accounts so they could bet on those days. That may be moot point because a lot of people already have multiple accounts. But assuming it is true (and it might be) why is the DRF competing with NYRA for deposits and taking bets via Express Bet?

If I was management of NYRA, Churchill Downs etc... I'd be a lot more furious about that than whether some idiot like me wants Easter off and it might impact handle for a couple of days.

[thaskalos]

I don't think Crist is hostile to Christianity.

I have no idea what his religious beliefs are (if any) and I don't really care. It's irrelevant to me. But IMHO he seems to have a very dismissive attitude and underlying annoyance at Christian influence if it conflicts with what he wants.

He's allowed to feel that way and some of us are allowed to point out that there are way more important things wrong with racing than whether he can get his carry over bets in because of Easter but he ignores some of those and makes this a priority.

No one but me seems to realize what the biggest problem with the article was even though I mentioned it earlier.

He said not having betting on Palm Sunday and Easter might encourage NY bettors to open out of state accounts so they could bet on those days. That may be moot point because a lot of people already have multiple accounts. But assuming it is true (and it might be) why is the DRF competing with NYRA for deposits and taking bets via Express Bet?

If I was management of NYRA, Churchill Downs etc... I'd be a lot more furious about that than whether some idiot like me wants Easter off and it might impact handle for a couple of days.

I agreed with your initial post here, classhandicapper...when you stated that this was a very insignificant issue.

But now that I see how strongly you feel about it, I admit that I am confused...

If this issue is not worthy of a Crist column...is it worthy of a rousing response from us?

[classhandicapper]

I agreed with your initial post here, classhandicapper...when you stated that this was a very insignificant issue.

But now that I see how strongly you feel about it, I admit that I am confused...

If this issue is not worthy of a Crist column...is it worthy of a rousing response from us?

You are absolutely right.

Don't confuse my continued responses with passion about the subject. It's my inability to let things go when I think some people aren't understanding my view or attacking my position. It generates passion where none really exists. It's a personality flaw I need to work on. I should have been smarter (like a few other people) and just let it go. Even though I know that I tend to respond. :bang:

[saratoga guy]

The issue is a significant one -- the 'big picture' is being missed here...

This is a stark, very obvious, example of how racing is treated like a 'second-class citizen' of the gambling world - living under rules often written years ago.

To ban racing on these two days - while permitting VLTs and lottery tickets to be sold is mind-boggling - particularly with VLTS being located at racetracks! And that legislators sit back and do nothing to address this hypocrisy says a lot about where racing stands in the scheme of things in the minds of the people who regulate it.

The issue then is: Yeah, takeout and wagering rules, etc are important issues, but how can we expect those to be addressed competently when even this most obvious of issues can't be tackled by the powers that be?

[thaskalos]

The issue is a significant one -- the 'big picture' is being missed here...

This is a stark, very obvious, example of how racing is treated like a 'second-class citizen' of the gambling world - living under rules often written years ago.

To ban racing on these two days - while permitting VLTs and lottery tickets to be sold is mind-boggling - particularly with VLTS being located at racetracks! And that legislators sit back and do nothing to address this hypocrisy says a lot about where racing stands in the scheme of things in the minds of the people who regulate it.

The issue then is: Yeah, takeout and wagering rules, etc are important issues, but how can we expect those to be addressed competently when even this most obvious of issues can't be tackled by the powers that be?
To be honest...horse racing itself acts like a "second-class citizen" of the gambling world.

If that were not true...would some race tracks opt to go "dark" on Super Bowl Sunday?

Some friends of mine headed out to our local OTB on Super Bowl Sunday, February of this year, in order to watch the game while also placing a few bets on some horses...and were shocked to discover that the OTB was closing, a little before kick-off.

Would a "first-class citizen" of the gambling world conduct business in such a manner?

[Hambletonian]

The Biggest Non Issue facing NY Racing

Who cares....I mean, honestly, Easter Sunday is just another Tuesday.... a day with no racing.

Many days have no racing.

If it was up to me, they would reopen the 3 County Fair and run there 360 days a year, but that ain't happening.

Crist must be running out of ideas....

[saratoga guy]

Who cares
Crist must be running out of ideas....


Well, I just explained why it's not a "running out of ideas" topic...

But, whatever...

[FantasticDan]

Who cares....I mean, honestly, Easter Sunday is just another Tuesday.... a day with no racing. Many days have no racing.
Except on a Tuesday, even tho NYRA isn't running, you can still place simulcast bets in NYS. On Palm Sunday and Easter, you can't.

I had no clue about this law until a few yrs ago when I stopped into Finger Lakes to make a bet on Palm Sunday while visiting nearby family, and they had all the stairs/escalator to the racing level roped off. Meanwhile, the casino was rockin' :rolleyes: :ThmbDown:

[jeebus1083]

As of Saturday, I am still waiting for Assemblymen Pretlow and Reilly, and Senators Bonacic and McDonald to respond to my inquiry.

Representatives? To whom? I understand that there are more pressing issues, but at least some sort of acknowledgement should have been made.

They will be receiving a 2nd inquiry from me in the not-too-distant future... :p ;) :lol: :)

[VastinMT]

To be fair, Crist probably is opposed to tracks closing for Passover, Ramadan and Divali, too.

[jeebus1083]

To be fair, Crist probably is opposed to tracks closing for Passover, Ramadan and Divali, too.

That's not the point. The point is that the laws are NOT created equal. Whether or not NYRA runs on Palm/Easter Sunday should be their choice, and not dictated by NYS. It's OK to play slots, bingo, and Lotto in NY on these two days, yet it's illegal to place a wager on horses? Free enterprise, people!

[aaron]

That's not the point. The point is that the laws are NOT created equal. Whether or not NYRA runs on Palm/Easter Sunday should be their choice, and not dictated by NYS. It's OK to play slots, bingo, and Lotto in NY on these two days, yet it's illegal to place a wager on horses? Free enterprise, people!
Good post-sums up all that should have been written on this topic.

[jeebus1083]

E-mail #2 has been sent to Assemblymen Pretlow and Reilly, and Senators Bonacic and McDonald. They can run, but they can't hide... :lol:

They have to answer eventually, right???

[FantasticDan]

bump

Palm Sunday and Easter right around the corner, anyone know if the repeal of the betting ban has been discussed in Albany? With Cuomo's expanded gaming initiative, seems like maybe it would've been...

[cj]

They are still dark on the calendar.

[nijinski]

Guess I'll scrap my plans for betting the La Derby and undercard. Was planning on crossing over the Nj border to NY state . Forgot it was Palm Sunday.

[jeebus1083]

bump

Palm Sunday and Easter right around the corner, anyone know if the repeal of the betting ban has been discussed in Albany? With Cuomo's expanded gaming initiative, seems like maybe it would've been...

Nope. I have e-mailed my assemblyman again, and this time, I've gotten the cold shoulder. The session lasts through June, so I'm planning on revisiting the issue in yet again, another e-mail, or this time, a paper on pen letter.

I still don't get how horse racing is a sin, yet the lottery and the VLTs can churn. Guessing that there are going to be some shocked people heading to Aqueduct today when they realize that the VLTs are rocking, yet the horses aren't.

[blind squirrel]

I like the day off.
He writes the same article every year,...Same as it ever was,Same as it ever was.....

[jeebus1083]

He writes the same article every year,...Same as it ever was,Same as it ever was.....

Squirrel, it's a matter of principle. How is it fair for New York to allow lottery and/or slot machines on Palm/Easter Sunday when they can't even allow horse races on the same day? It's a ridiculous/hypocritical double standard. Gambling is gambling in my opinion.

If NYRA or other New York tracks don't want to run races on those days, it should be their choice. They can always allow for out-of-state simulcasting on those days. Set it up where wagers are accepted on SAM machines only, with 1-2 clerks for people to cash. I'd have no issue with that.

If horses aren't allowed, perhaps slots and lottery shouldn't either. Make it consistent.

[blind squirrel]

Squirrel, it's a matter of principle. How is it fair for New York to allow lottery and/or slot machines on Palm/Easter Sunday when they can't even allow horse races on the same day? It's a ridiculous/hypocritical double standard. Gambling is gambling in my opinion.

If NYRA or other New York tracks don't want to run races on those days, it should be their choice. They can always allow for out-of-state simulcasting on those days. Set it up where wagers are accepted on SAM machines only, with 1-2 clerks for people to cash. I'd have no issue with that.

If horses aren't allowed, perhaps slots and lottery shouldn't either. Make it consistent.
I did not say i agree with the ban...i just said Crist writes the same opinion piece over and over........nothing will change.

[Tom]

Gives him a day off every April.
Just phone it in, go back to bed. :D

[classhandicapper]

Maybe I'll write a letter to the editor of the Wall St Journal complaining that I can't get any of my option trades or stock purchases in on Good Friday but the casino will be open.

[Tom]

And of course, the Times will count that a break down.

[breeze]

The issue is a significant one -- the 'big picture' is being missed here...

This is a stark, very obvious, example of how racing is treated like a 'second-class citizen' of the gambling world - living under rules often written years ago.

To ban racing on these two days - while permitting VLTs and lottery tickets to be sold is mind-boggling - particularly with VLTS being located at racetracks! And that legislators sit back and do nothing to address this hypocrisy says a lot about where racing stands in the scheme of things in the minds of the people who regulate it.

The issue then is: Yeah, takeout and wagering rules, etc are important issues, but how can we expect those to be addressed competently when even this most obvious of issues can't be tackled by the powers that be?


ah,back to reality

this thread sure took some odd twists, I'm undecided if I should venture on

[breeze]

The Biggest Non Issue facing NY Racing

Who cares....I mean, honestly, Easter Sunday is just another Tuesday.... a day with no racing.

Many days have no racing.

If it was up to me, they would reopen the 3 County Fair and run there 360 days a year, but that ain't happening.

Crist must be running out of ideas....


Barrington had the better track

[EasyGoer89]

He sounded off what, 6 7 years ago and nothing has changed

Happy Easter y'all! :headbanger:

[cj]

He sounded off what, 6 7 years ago and nothing has changed

Happy Easter y'all! :headbanger:

Wasn't there racing on Palm Sunday last weekend?

[SuperPickle]

Wasn't there racing on Palm Sunday last weekend?

There was but that won't stop our friend who believes we should have racing 365 days a year. I notice he didn't bump his post talking how we should race on Christmas or at least Christmas Eve. Something to look forward to come December.

[EasyGoer89]

There was but that won't stop our friend who believes we should have racing 365 days a year. I notice he didn't bump his post talking how we should race on Christmas or at least Christmas Eve. Something to look forward to come December.

Yes look forward to it. Merry X mas Mr 999. :popcorn:

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm actually surprised by the relatively high number of tracks that ARE running on Easter Sunday.

[EasyGoer89]

I'm actually surprised by the relatively high number of tracks that ARE running on Easter Sunday.

maybe those places don't want to get involved in forcing their religious beliefs on people. My motto is if you're a racetrack, BE a racetrack and run on days you normally run. If you usually run on Sunday, then run. It's not hard!:popcorn:

[ronsmac]

Before I was betting online, I had to drive to Pennsylvania to bet on Santa Anita on Easter. Now I see Maryland is running live. 17 years too late for me.

[PaceAdvantage]

maybe those places don't want to get involved in forcing their religious beliefs on people. My motto is if you're a racetrack, BE a racetrack and run on days you normally run. If you usually run on Sunday, then run. It's not hard!:popcorn:Forcing...:lol:

Hey, what about all the Christians working the backside who don't want to work on Easter Sunday? You forcing your ideology on them? They work their asses off 7 days a week taking care of these horses, and you want to deny them one damn day to practice their religious faith on the holiest day of the year?

That's not very fair, now is it?

[SuperPickle]

Forcing...:lol:

Hey, what about all the Christians working the backside who don't want to work on Easter Sunday? You forcing your ideology on them? They work their asses off 7 days a week taking care of these horses, and you want to deny them one damn day to practice their religious faith on the holiest day of the year?

That's not very fair, now is it?

Can I give this a million stars.

SRU loves to take complex issues and make them elementary. What about the employee most who don't want to work all day Easter? What about horseman and owners most of which who don't want to race? What about all the simulcast places who don't want to be open?

Framing something as a racetrack decision which really isn't a racetrack decision is pretty simple thinking.

Btw SRU... I'm assuming you've worked every Thanksgiving and most Christmas' in your professional life.

[EasyGoer89]

Forcing...:lol:

Hey, what about all the Christians working the backside who don't want to work on Easter Sunday? You forcing your ideology on them? They work their asses off 7 days a week taking care of these horses, and you want to deny them one damn day to practice their religious faith on the holiest day of the year?

That's not very fair, now is it?

If they don't want to work they can take the day off.

[EasyGoer89]

Can I give this a million stars.

SRU loves to take complex issues and make them elementary. What about the employee most who don't want to work all day Easter? What about horseman and owners most of which who don't want to race? What about all the simulcast places who don't want to be open?

Framing something as a racetrack decision which really isn't a racetrack decision is pretty simple thinking.

Btw SRU... I'm assuming you've worked every Thanksgiving and most Christmas' in your professional life.

peolle who have work ethics are tripping over each other to work holidays at time and a half or double time, if they want to take a day off and miss out on double pay, that's a them problem.

[PaceAdvantage]

peolle who have work ethics are tripping over each other to work holidays at time and a half or double time, if they want to take a day off and miss out on double pay, that's a them problem.Yeah, like backstretch folk get time and a half...get real

[PaceAdvantage]

If they don't want to work they can take the day off.Yes, and I'm sure the human resources person will be sure to deduct from their vacation days....:lol:

What world are you living in? Have you ever visited a backstretch in your life?

[upthecreek]

Forcing...:lol:

Hey, what about all the Christians working the backside who don't want to work on Easter Sunday? You forcing your ideology on them? They work their asses off 7 days a week taking care of these horses, and you want to deny them one damn day to practice their religious faith on the holiest day of the year?

That's not very fair, now is it?
When I worked for GP years ago we ran 3 shifts 364 days a year If you were scheduled to work a holiday , you did What makes racetrack workers any different!

[PaceAdvantage]

When I worked for GP years ago we ran 3 shifts 364 days a year If you were scheduled to work a holiday , you did What makes racetrack workers any different!Lots of businesses are closed on Easter...what makes the tracks any different?!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Employers with 15 or more employees must make reasonable accommodations for employees’ religious observances, according the Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Therefore, if covered employers can reasonably accommodate the employee’s request, they must. Some state anti-discrimination laws may cover even smaller employers.

If allowing the employee to have the religious holiday off would cause an undue hardship for the company, the accommodation is not required.

According to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), “An employer can show undue hardship if accommodating an employee’s religious practices requires more than ordinary administrative costs, diminishes efficiency in other jobs, infringes on other employees’ job rights or benefits, impairs workplace safety, causes co-workers to carry the accommodated employee’s share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work, or if the proposed accommodation conflicts with another law or regulation.”

[SuperPickle]

peolle who have work ethics are tripping over each other to work holidays at time and a half or double time, if they want to take a day off and miss out on double pay, that's a them problem.

You're so scattershot with your ethos. It's like you ur philosophy is a random group of ideas. You have this hardcore libratarianism that you hate people being forced to do anything (what the rest of us call rules and laws) surely you disagree with unions. But yet I know of almost no one in a non-union position who gets time and a half on holidays.

So time and a half good but the process through which it exists bad?

Btw... this is almost as comical as that thread where you said jockey fees should be negotiatable on a race-by-race basis.

[Dahoss9698]

peolle who have work ethics are tripping over each other to work holidays at time and a half or double time, if they want to take a day off and miss out on double pay, that's a them problem.

This was a nice deflection. Doesn't this act ever get old for you?

[Thomas Roulston]

I thought the admins had a policy strictly forbidding political posts or comments on this forum.

Can't we talk about the lack of turf sprints at Aqueduct instead? :D

[PaceAdvantage]

These comments are directly related to racing, are they not? Obviously, politics sometimes plays a big role in racing, and therefore that kind of political talk will be allowed.

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, I just realized I can't bet online today either. DRFbets, TVG and TwinSpires all won't let me wager...because I live in NY.

Wish I realized this before I purchased my data this morning...:bang:

I guess this is the first time I've tried to wager online on Easter Sunday...:lol:

[zawaaa]

there must be a better way to give us common-folk a little time off than bye using the archaically inane traditions of yesteryear.

(if we so choose, of course)

[horses4courses]

Best to preserve these traditions, and forego the temptations of sin.

Besides, breaking even won't be the worst Sunday gambling you've ever had.;)

[Thomas Roulston]

These comments are directly related to racing, are they not? Obviously, politics sometimes plays a big role in racing, and therefore that kind of political talk will be allowed.


It's just that I got in trouble once for blasting Howard Dean for stopping Green Mountain Race Track from being resurrected when it actually looked like it was going to happen, because greyhound racing was also going to be held there part of the year under the plan, and Dean had previously pushed for and signed a bill banning greyhound racing in Vermont on the grounds that it constituted "cruelty to animals."

It was the only time that I have ever had a problem on here.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's just that I got in trouble once for blasting Howard Dean for stopping Green Mountain Race Track from being resurrected when it actually looked like it was going to happen, because greyhound racing was also going to be held there part of the year under the plan, and Dean had previously pushed for and signed a bill banning greyhound racing in Vermont on the grounds that it constituted "cruelty to animals."

It was the only time that I have ever had a problem on here.Doubtful...maybe you need to clarify your use of the term "blasting Howard Dean." Perhaps you stated your case in a way that went way over the line.