Validator 2

[trying2win]

--I was reading a post on another thread, when SQ mentioned a handicapping software named Validator 2. I'm unfamiliar with this product. I'm just curious...

--Can SQ, or someone else enlighten me what kind of program this is? Is it a speed and pace handicappng software or ???
What company produces it?


Thanks,

Trying2win

[Gold Bay]

A search for Sartin should help.

[trying2win]

GOLD BAY,

--Thanks for your reply about Sartin. Although I've heard about Howard Sartin and his Methodology, I don't know too much about its principles. I think I read somewhere that it deals with things like velocity ratings. I wouldn't be interested in using something that in my handicapping. But, if it works for it's users, more power to them as the old cliche goes.

--If I remember correctly, Howard Sartin was a proponent of betting two horses to win in a race. The inimitable Dick Schmidt may jump in here and clue me in if I'm wrong. If the Sartin Methodology does indeed advocate betting on two horses to win, I don't know whether the users bet the same amount on both horses, or more on the lower-odds and less on the higher-odds horse.

Trying2win

[shanta]

JUST MY 2 CENTS HERE OK?

1) THE LAST 3 SARTIN PROGRAMS VALIDATOR, VALIDATOR2 AND THE LAST ONE VAL3 REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH VELOCITY RATINGS.THE FINAL READOUT THAT IS GIVEN (V/DC) IS A COMBINATION OF VARIOUS FACTORS THAT ARE COMBINED, WEIGHTED AND LEAD TO THIS FINAL V/DC READOUT. THERE IS ONLY 1 THING NEEDED TO KEEP RECORDS OF AND THAT IS WHERE YOUR WINNERS ARE COMING FROM BASED ON THIS FINAL V/DC READOUT(AND I GOT THE IMPORTANCE OF RECORD KEEPING OVER A DECADE AGO FROM NONE OTHER THAN DICK SCHMIDT'S CHAPTER ON RECORDKEEPING IN THE ORIGINAL "PACE MAKES THE RACE" BOOK!) NO MORE MODELING OF CORROLARIES .

2) THE LAST BETTING GUIDELINES BEFORE DOC TOOK ILL WAS A 50/50 WAGER ON 2 HORSES TO WIN IN EVERY RACE ASSUMING YOUR LOW ODDS BET WAS AT LEAST 5/2. IF YOU GO LOWER THAN 5/2 ON YOUR LOW ODDS BET THEN A 60/40 OR EVEN 70/30 BET WAS ADVISED.

HOPE THIS HELPS A LITTLE. THEIR PHONE NUMBER IS 1-909-845-5745 MONDAY AND FRIDAYS ONLY FROM NOON TO 4 P.M. PACIFIC TIME. RICHIE

[sq764]

T2Win, Shanta is your man on this one.. He is the Val2 guru and knows it in and out.

I honestly didn't think much of Val2 when I used it, but after being honed in on its benefits, I use it every day I play the horses.

It also made me concentrate more on choosing the right line for the horse and waiting for your spots.

[trying2win]

SHANTA AND SQ,

Thanks for the info.

Trying2win

[corr]

Shanta,

As guru of Sartin, may I email you? I have some operational questions and Doc became ill before I was able to visit in person. I have had some success using Val and Val2 but would really like to do some fine tuning. Thank you, Corr

[shanta]

NOT ANY KIND OF "GURU" !! THAT I CAN ASSURE YOU! I JUST AM VERY FAMILIAR WITH IT AND COUPLING THAT ALONG WITH HARD WORK AND DETAILED RECORDS MAKES FOR A NICE FIT! YOU CAN EMAIL ME IF YOU LIKE. HAPPY HOLIDAYS RICHIE

[Bodacious]

I am not really sure why people equate betting two horses to win as the Sartin Methodology, since I believe it was started by Dutch Schultz.

VAL VAL2 and VAL3 are advanced pace programs, but it's not like any pace program out there. First it uses fractals to measure everything including the projected odds. Then all the ratios Sustained Pace, Early Pace and CPR (sort of like total pace) along with other ratios are weighted and a validator score is created. That's where the money is in this program. With proper handicapping your top 3 choices will win 70+ percent of the time and where you make the money is when longshots appear in the top three programs. If you dutch and you get all the favorites coming in you will not make much by Dutching. One of Doc's radical suggestions for all handicappers was to toss out the favorite. Period or pass the race.

[sq764]

I think you need to wagering with value in mind.. You have to put a cutoff to your acceptable price. Mine is 6/1.. Of course I am not going to hit as many races as some others will that accept 5/2 or 3/1 as their lowest price, but I know that.

For instance, yesterday afternoon at Turf Paradise, I caught 4 winners in a row (Races 4-7) and all paid between $16 and $26.. Now this is rare to catch so many nice winners, but Val2 can be so on somedays its unreal.

[Lefty]

Bodacious, 2 horse betting is closely identified with Doc Sartin because he popularized it in modern times.
Actually, Dutch Schultz wasn't a 2 horse bettor. In his time there were only the "handbooks" and ea was apt to have different prices on ea horse than the other as evidenced by each ones personal action into the "book" so Dutch attempted to bet horses with different books with the idea of betting every horse in the race and making his line end up under 100% so he would make a profit regardless of the winner.

[Bodacious]

I agree with keeping the wagering value in mind. If I can't "Doc" the two horses and make at least a 50 percent profit, I skip the race. If a top choice is off at less than 5/2 I want some odds on my second bet or I'll skip it. One of the hidden virtues in dutching is that it keeps you off those low return races, at least it does for me. That's not uncommon with other Sartin clients I've met either.

The other big advantage is that your bankroll builds up quicker, with more winners. This assumes your not a stumblebum with your handicapping.

The VALIDATOR programs have a very nice odds line for the horses, next to their morning line odds so you can see right away where the 'value' is. The odds line though is geared for two horse betting, altough Mark Crammer devised a system where you place bets automatically on the top three horses whose odds are 50 percent higher than the program's odds. He did very nicely on it and turned his winnings over to the Mary Knoll Nuns! This was covered in two Follow Ups #70 and 71. Anyone with a program with an odds line might want to give this idea a try.

[jackad]

Bodacious,
Please clarify if you can: In Mark Crammer's system that you refer to, do you bet on any horse among only the top three if its odds are 50% above the fair odds,
OR bet the first three horses whose odds are 50% above the fair odds , regardless of where in the rankings those horses appear?

Thanks.
Jack

[Binder]

To Jackad & Bodacious

Hi I copied a letter from Mark Cramer to Doc that was
printed In follow up #72 (I had just become a client and #72
is my first followup)
I think you will like to read the letter
Mark Cramer explains what he wants to try

From reading Follow up #72 It seem like this will be the second test of his method

Aline Best did the first test and won $257
Mark Cramer wanted to have somebody else try too
and donate any profit to the MaryKnoll Fathers

My scanner is shot so I retyped the letter
but its word for word http://www.bindfold.com/pages/2/index.htm

Thanks
Binder

[Bodacious]

I can testify to Binder's writeup it is exactly as he printed it, since I have in my treasure trove the exact issue he copied, word for word. This was the second test, the first test which had similar results was done either in issue 70, or 71 which I don't have. Of course the skeptics who claim a 10 percent return is a professional level of return can still be skeptical, but the article also had a photocopy of the check that was sent. The handicapper who was chosen was not breaking even with the program until he tried Mark Cramer's suggestion. Mark found a way to use the program to make a profit and he didn't even use the program! Now that's a winner for you!