Tampa Bay GM: A believer in lower takeout

[andymays]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/tampa-bay-gm-a-believer-in-lower-takeout/#PageComment_137352

Excerpt:

Peter Berube, the vice president and general manager of Tampa Bay Downs – which opens its 2011-12 race meeting on Saturday – is a former accountant who understands numbers. Berube is a believer that you can sell more of a product if you lower the price. In racing, at least among serious horseplayers, the price of a bet is the takeout.

“I am convinced reducing takeout does increase handle,” Berube said. Furthermore, he said he is convinced the increase in handle makes up for the lower commissions from each dollar wagered when takeout is lowered.

[FenceBored]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/tampa-bay-gm-a-believer-in-lower-takeout/#PageComment_137352

Excerpt:

Peter Berube, the vice president and general manager of Tampa Bay Downs – which opens its 2011-12 race meeting on Saturday – is a former accountant who understands numbers. Berube is a believer that you can sell more of a product if you lower the price. In racing, at least among serious horseplayers, the price of a bet is the takeout.

“I am convinced reducing takeout does increase handle,” Berube said. Furthermore, he said he is convinced the increase in handle makes up for the lower commissions from each dollar wagered when takeout is lowered.

Now that's an excerpt I'll assume you agree with. :D

I see the article touches on the nervousness of simulcast partners over the lowered takeout. How are they going to feel if Berube tries further cuts in takeout at the same time Monarch is raising Tampa's signal fees?

[gamblerdb]

tampa bay opens saturday. any reason that there are no entries listed anywhere?

[andymays]

Now that's an excerpt I'll assume you agree with. :D

I see the article touches on the nervousness of simulcast partners over the lowered takeout. How are they going to feel if Berube tries further cuts in takeout at the same time Monarch is raising Tampa's signal fees?

I don't know if I should comment or not given the Lansky thread. :confused: :lol:

Simulcast partners do go nuts when stuff like this is done. They complained when California put in the 14% takeout P5.

There are a lot of angles to this story and it is going to be interesting as it plays out. Many Players who bet a lot of money get rebates and low takeout wagers affect the size of the rebate. I doubt there is a rebate when someone who doesn't live in California bets a 14% takeout P5 in California through their ADW.

Tampa is going in the right direction while California flounders because of the TOC and CHRB Chairman Brackpool.

[cj]

tampa bay opens saturday. any reason that there are no entries listed anywhere?

Entries close today.

[llegend39]

tampa bay opens saturday. any reason that there are no entries listed anywhere?

Expect it all season-they're always late getting the entries up for some reason

[tbwinner]

Expect it all season-they're always late getting the entries up for some reason

It should just be opening day. I think it has to do with the dates Calder takes for entries. Normally tracks take entries Wednesday for Saturday racing but just this week Tampa has Saturday entries closing on Thursday. Should be out soon.

[lamboguy]

i would love to know why a smaller country like japan does $37billion a year in racing handle, a country like australia that has all types of gambling does $7billion a year in tote handle and another $10billion or more in bookmaker handle, and the united states of america that has all the great racing in the world only does $14 billion in the year 20009. japan has a takeout of 20% for w-p-s. churchill downs and nyra are less than 17% and even less with rebates.

[jelly]

i would love to know why a smaller country like japan does $37billion a year in racing handle, a country like australia that has all types of gambling does $7billion a year in tote handle and another $10billion or more in bookmaker handle, and the united states of america that has all the great racing in the world only does $14 billion in the year 20009. japan has a takeout of 20% for w-p-s. churchill downs and nyra are less than 17% and even less with rebates.



It would seem the Japanese are dumber for betting so much it to such high takeout.

[boogazie]

Might have to do with the fact that their fields are huge given that they don't have 10 tracks competing with one another.

Also, the owners run their horses consistently in the big races. There is very little dodging. They even have a G1 race where the public choose which horses get in the starting gate; wish we had something similar.

[lamboguy]

i compared the total national handle of both coutries. similar results come out of hong kong as well.

a few other things to consider are that wagering shuts down 2 minutes prior to post, there are limited amounts of multiple wagering opportunities in the orient, and if anyone associated with a horse, trainer, owner, jockey or racing official, is caught altering the outcome of an event those people are prosecuted to the fullest extent and recieve the same penalties that a bank robber or thief would get in this country.

[Robert Goren]

[/COLOR]



It would seem the Japanese are dumber for betting so much it to such high takeout.They fly half way around the world to Las Vegas to play slot machines, so yes, it appears that the Japanese are not very wise when it comes to gambling.

[lamboguy]

in this country when a horse should pay $4.79 to win, it only pays $4.60. that is an added 9 1/2 % added takeout. another words a 17% takeout now becomes a 26% takeout. that is your breakage at work. of course that is not always the case, but the customer never benefits from the breakage.

[mannyberrios]

I remember the Andy Beyer book, when he went to Austrailia, and he said that their pools kill that of the United States. He also said something to the effect that alot of people make their living playing the horses. Those people are very serious about the races. Horse racing is the second biggest sport in Austrailia

[iceknight]

They fly half way around the world to Las Vegas to play slot machines, so yes, it appears that the Japanese are not very wise when it comes to gambling.

it is wayyy cheaper for them to spend their money in US or Europe than go out to town in Japan and eat a meal at a restaurant. ..(hotels are even more pricey there).This is why so many Japanese tourists easily fly across the pacific and spend their money here!

[therussmeister]

in this country when a horse should pay $4.79 to win, it only pays $4.60. that is an added 9 1/2 % added takeout. another words a 17% takeout now becomes a 26% takeout.

Uh, not even close.

The easiest way to determine the combined takeout and breakage, is by calculating the total amount paid by multiplying the $1 payout by the total $ bet on the winner, then calculate combined takeout.

Example from Calder race 2 yesterday (December, 1):

win pool total: $49757
amount bet on winner: $10360
$1 return: $3.90

10360 * 3.9 = 40404

40404 / 49757 = .81203

1 - .81203 = .18797

Combined breakage and takeout was 18.797% Calder's takeout for win bets is 18%, thus the breakage in this example was 0.797%.

By the way, the breakage was $0.038 on the dollar.

[lamboguy]

if you lose .19 on a 2$ wager in breakage, what percentage is that?

[Horseplayersbet.com]

if you lose .19 on a 2$ wager in breakage, what percentage is that?
It depends on the payoff. If there is 10,000.98 cents available in a pick 3 pool after takeout of say 22% and you get the whole pool, you cash 10,000.90 for a buck. The 8 cents you didn't get doesn't represent a 8% takeout increase due to breakage.

[toussaud]

i would love to know why a smaller country like japan does $37billion a year in racing handle, a country like australia that has all types of gambling does $7billion a year in tote handle and another $10billion or more in bookmaker handle, and the united states of america that has all the great racing in the world only does $14 billion in the year 20009. japan has a takeout of 20% for w-p-s. churchill downs and nyra are less than 17% and even less with rebates.
there are not competing with each other.

here is the additional kicker. they don't run year round. they actually have seasons in japan. they only run 2 days a week, and it's only one track running.

the fields are ridiculously huge. nothing to see an avg field size of like 16-18 horses a day.

the field size, in combination with all the additional "dumb money" from people that would otherwise be playing other tracks, now having to play this particular track, somewhat offsets the takeout rate, it makes it easier to make a living playing horses, and because of that you get more money.


about what, 2 months ago, week night, i was playing Australia racing.. it was an undercard race to i want to say the victoria derby, oen of those races. anyway, the dude that does the broadcast, said that the bookmakers just said that some guy, as in, one guy, just played 2 50k bets, on 2 horses in the race, he obviously thought it was a 2 horse race, and if he was right he was guaranteed to profit.

I think the bookmakers dropped one of the horses, who was like 3/1 to like 2.70 and the other was like 5 to 1 to like 4.50 or something like that. weren't big moves at all.

you put 50k on 2 horses in say, the undercard for the big cap and you got 2 2/5 shots.


PS- He lost the bet lol. that wager made me pay close attention to a race i was not planning on watching or wagering on