When I see a PA-bred race I think ...

[FenceBored]

Just a quick quiz to gauge general feelings about Pennsylvania bred thoroughbreds.

[PhantomOnTour]

:lol:
I was hoping you'd have that last option...that's me.

[Dave Schwartz]

Why would anyone ever think that a race with restrictions (such as state bred) would be a higher-class race than one without restrictions?

[FenceBored]

Why would anyone ever think that a race with restrictions (such as state bred) would be a higher-class race than one without restrictions?

I am having a discussion with someone (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195649&postcount=9) who concedes that Penn and Parx have a reputation for cheap stock, but he claims the quality of PA breds is well regarded. How could these two ideas both be true, unless people generally hold that PA-bred races are a step up from a similar condition open race at the same track. A poll seemed the simplest way to find out if that is a common opinion.

[toussaud]

it depends on the track. I will play presque isle and feel decent about myself aftewards.

But Penn National, I feel like I just did something dirty every time i look at that track

[horses4courses]

When you mention PA breds, I think of two horses.
Smart Jones and Barbaro.

I bet Parx about once in a blue moon, and when I do it's for stakes races that are not restricted.

So, I can't really take part in your poll.

[Tampa Russ]

...and Lil E. Tee


When you mention PA breds, I think of two horses.
Smart Jones and Barbaro.

I bet Parx about once in a blue moon, and when I do it's for stakes races that are not restricted.

So, I can't really take part in your poll.

[FenceBored]

When you mention PA breds, I think of two horses.
Smart Jones and Barbaro.

I bet Parx about once in a blue moon, and when I do it's for stakes races that are not restricted.

So, I can't really take part in your poll.

Barbaro was KY bred. The other PA bred Ky Derby winner is Lil E Tee.

[toussaud]

Pretty sure hard spun was a PA bred too

[HuggingTheRail]

I think....gawd, I hope some of the members of PA haven't bred....

Edit: Oh, you meant the state of PA...thought you referring to Pace Advantage site...

[FenceBored]

Just noticed 2 votes for the highest option. It's good to see the Pennsylvania breeders getting into action.

[DSB]

When I see a Pa. bred race, I think:

"Can I make money on this race?"

Just like any other race.....

[Shemp Howard]

Penn National was built close to the slaughterhouse auctions for a reason. It's the end of the line for most horses, trainers, and jockeys.

Let's have a PA bred/NY bred Challenge series and settle things on the track.

[Canarsie]

I am having a discussion with someone (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195649&postcount=9) who concedes that Penn and Parx have a reputation for cheap stock, but he claims the quality of PA breds is well regarded. How could these two ideas both be true, unless people generally hold that PA-bred races are a step up from a similar condition open race at the same track. A poll seemed the simplest way to find out if that is a common opinion.

I am that "someone" and please pull my quote where I said what you claim. I stated that nobody complains about them but the best you can do is take it out of "context". I would love to see where I stated "well regarded".

Since I'm at it show me where people complain about Ontario bred races at Woodbine also.

Since your out of work you should apply for a job at the National Inquirer. They could use a good "investigative" reporter like you.

[ManU918]

When you mention PA breds, I think of two horses.
Smart Jones and Barbaro.

I bet Parx about once in a blue moon, and when I do it's for stakes races that are not restricted.

So, I can't really take part in your poll.

Plum Pretty was pretty nice filly this year.

[therussmeister]

When I see a Pa. bred race, I think:

"Can I make money on this race?"

Just like any other race.....

+1 :ThmbUp:

[FenceBored]

I am that "someone" and please pull my quote where I said what you claim. I stated that nobody complains about them but the best you can do is take it out of "context". I would love to see where I stated "well regarded".


Methinks you're straining at gnats. You said:
Interesting subject especially since you say" rotate the Breeders Cup". Am I a fan of these races? Not necessarily but before this fall NYRA had to compete with all the slot tracks in the tri state region putting them at a disadvantage. NY breds filled a lot of these races what would have happened without them? There are great opportunities for both NY thoroughbred and standardbred horses like many other states have. Why should they be penalized when not a sole [sic] I know of talks about the quality of Pennsylvania breds?
-- http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195179&postcount=2
I understood your "not a sole [sic] I know of talks about the quality of Pennsylvania breds" to mean that no one you know complains about or denigrates the quality of PA-breds. Hence my response:

Nobody talks about the quality of PA breds? Nobody takes shots at Parx and Penn National for the cheap stock? Are you joking me?
-- http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195201&postcount=5
If I had misunderstood your claim, that would have been the perfect opportunity to correct the misunderstanding. But, no, this was your reply:


Cheap stock I agree {emphasis added} that wasn't the context of your point. Now go pull some threads where they complain about state bred races in Pennsylvania. If you find three or more I will apologize will you do the same if you can't?
-- http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195649&postcount=9
So, open races at PA tracks are cheap stock, but PA-bred races aren't. Is "well regarded" really a misrepresentation of this position. I don't think so, I think you're just looking to take offense.


Since I'm at it show me where people complain about Ontario bred races at Woodbine also.


See reply #3 of this thread from Dave Schwartz:
Why would anyone ever think that a race with restrictions (such as state bred) would be a higher-class race than one without restrictions?
Restated in my own terms: State-bred races (in general) have a reputation of being a refuge for horses who can't succeed in open company. Some people may wish to remove the stigma for their own purposes, but based upon the results of our little poll these efforts have not succeeded.

Since your out of work you should apply for a job at the National Inquirer. They could use a good "investigative" reporter like you.

Curious.
I like a good discussion as long as it doesn't resort to name calling ...
-- Carnarsie (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195703&postcount=14)
Sailing a bit close to the wind here, aren't we?

[Canarsie]

Your like a little kid playing with words. I NEVER said 'well regarded" now your grasping at straws. I also like that you knocked certain people for voting a choice that wasn't kind to your stance.

I never stated cheap stock you were the first one to bring it up. I was agreeing with you that “lesser” horses run there but it had nothing to do with my point. Maybe you should reread what I wrote.


Where is the “name calling” I stated where you could get a job because you are wrongfully stating my position. Once again please show me where I called you a “name”? Why don’t you start a poll and ask if that is name calling?

Oh and btw if states didn’t have State bred programs there would be a severe shortage of horses everywhere but Kentucky. That doesn’t mean I like them but that’s how it goes in the business world of horses. I didn’t see a single person who works in the industry back your position that they should be eliminated and made “open”.

You did say EVERYBODY” didn’t you and that comment fell flat on its face.

No I didn't vote didn't find a need to respond to such a "childish" poll.

If I put up a poll that stated what would you rather have a five race card or nine races with four state bred races included I have a good hunch how the voting would go. Especially if I worded it like you trying to get “EVERYONE” to agree with your position.

I’m done with this no need to continue with your rants that are proven wrong. Lots of people said they would bet there you are your own worst “enemy”.

Its the holiday season I wish you the best of luck finding a new job. This is the second time I said this isn't that correct? Or is that also name calling?

[thaskalos]

Just a quick quiz to gauge general feelings about Pennsylvania bred thoroughbreds.
Are you kidding me?

Have you looked at those purses at Parx?

As we speak, I am in the process of forming a partnership in order to purchase some Pennsylvania-breds...

If you can't beat them...join them! :)

[rastajenk]

I think With Anticipation was a KeyStoner too; but possibly I'm thinking of another top-shelf turfer from 10 years ago or so.

[tzipi]

I think With Anticipation was a KeyStoner too; but possibly I'm thinking of another top-shelf turfer from 10 years ago or so.

Yes, he was a PA bred.

[FenceBored]

Your like a little kid playing with words. I NEVER said 'well regarded" now your grasping at straws.


Who ever said you used the words "well regarded?" Nobody. If you don't like that representation of your position that's one thing, but don't whine about how you're being misquoted when there isn't a quote mark anywhere near the phrase in the post you object to.


I also like that you knocked certain people for voting a choice that wasn't kind to your stance.


Teasing? Joke? These words have any meaning to you?


I never stated cheap stock you were the first one to bring it up. I was agreeing with you that “lesser” horses run there but it had nothing to do with my point. Maybe you should reread what I wrote.


I've read and reread what you wrote. What is it that you're trying to say that isn't clear. That state-bred races are necessary for the survival of tracks in these degenerate times? Yea, maybe they are and maybe they're not, but don't expect us to be excited about them, which if you actually took the time to read the letter from Mr. Cannizzo, is what he seems to want.


Where is the “name calling” I stated where you could get a job because you are wrongfully stating my position. Once again please show me where I called you a “name”? Why don’t you start a poll and ask if that is name calling?


I said it was sailing close to the wind, not that you had necessarily crossed the line. Saying that someone should look for work at a place with an unsavory reputation would seem to imply that they would fit in there, i.e. that they themselves are disreputable. That certainly seems to me to be edging toward namecalling. Not that I'm actually complaining. Go ahead, call names if you feel like it. I don't mind.


Oh and btw if states didn’t have State bred programs there would be a severe shortage of horses everywhere but Kentucky. That doesn’t mean I like them but that’s how it goes in the business world of horses. I didn’t see a single person who works in the industry back your position that they should be eliminated and made “open”.


I would say that that's unproven and unprovable. If there were no, and never had been, restricted state-bred racing programs the world would be a different place, and both breeders and tracks would have made other decisions in the intervening years. There would still be horses bred in a number of states, there would still be tracks in a number of states and those tracks would still be competing to attract horses. There also wouldn't be quite the disincentives to breeding in states like VA and TENN that once produced their share of horses and are now at a competitive disadvantage because of the lure of easier pickings via state-bred monies. And besides, there is a horse shortage in Kentucky.And although the dates themselves were non-controversial, the racetrack executives and commissioners serving on the committee discussed at length the precarious future of Kentucky racing, which has seen a migration of stables out of the state for larger purses being offered at nearby states where racing is subsidized by alternative gaming.
Read more: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/59325/ky-2011-racing-dates-maintaining-status-quo#ixzz1f1RUJlCI


You did say EVERYBODY” didn’t you and that comment fell flat on its face.


Where did I say "everybody" in the way you keep presenting it as a quote except specifically in regards to the quality of NM-breds (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195668&postcount=11), something I'm not seeing disputed? Seems strange that someone who's complaining about being 'misquoted' is the one actually doing the misquouting.


No I didn't vote didn't find a need to respond to such a "childish" poll.


That's nice. Don't recall saying you had, and am unconcerned either way. And what's childish about finding out what people think by, you know, asking them?


If I put up a poll that stated what would you rather have a five race card or nine races with four state bred races included I have a good hunch how the voting would go. Especially if I worded it like you trying to get “EVERYONE” to agree with your position.


How is this poll worded to get " “EVERYONE” " to agree with my position? Are there not reasonable options for those who think highly of the quality of state-bred races and those who don't? What's your actual objection: That the results aren't what you'd like?


I’m done with this no need to continue with your rants that are proven wrong. Lots of people said they would bet there you are your own worst “enemy”.


What's been proven wrong?


Its the holiday season I wish you the best of luck finding a new job. This is the second time I said this isn't that correct? Or is that also name calling?

I'm not looking for a job. The crack about applying for a job fixing the Eurozone crisis was a joke in response to your suggestion that I should "apply for a job so you can change the rules." Honestly, ...

[FenceBored]

Are you kidding me?

Have you looked at those purses at Parx?

As we speak, I am in the process of forming a partnership in order to purchase some Pennsylvania-breds...

If you can't beat them...join them! :)

I hope you have good luck.

Would you think of going with a supertrainer or try to buck them?

[RunForTheRoses]

Barbaro was KY bred. The other PA bred Ky Derby winner is Lil E Tee.

That was going to be my response, PA Breds =Lil E Tee.

[therussmeister]

As we speak, I am in the process of forming a partnership in order to purchase some Pennsylvania-breds...

I am in the process of forming a partnership in order to purchase Parx Casino and Race Track

[jefftune]

When I see a PA-bred race next in the program I think ...

How nice it is to be watching live racing at PID just minutes from my house!

[cj]

When I see a PA-bred race next in the program I think ...

How nice it is to be watching live racing at PID just minutes from my house!

At least now we know at least one person goes!

[pondman]

When I see a PA-bred race next in the program I think

Wasn't he ruled out of N.Y.

[davefulche]

I chose option 4, but the options I wanted weren't there. The PA bred MSW and MCLs arent good, but when I see a PA bred at NY I definitely think they are overlooked and have a good shot if they are up there.

[Horseplayersbet.com]

When it comes to betting, I really like state bred races, especially when it comes to exotics. There is usually only a few horses (if that) which can win, a few more that can run 2nd, and then there are lots of possibilities for third and fourth, usually at long odds.
Plus you might get the odd overlay on the winner or second horse if they are coming "moving up" from an open race.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I think, "In my home state (IL) these would be open company. And IL breds here would be considered open company in PA." Then I laugh, and forget about state breds. The horses don't know what state they're from, and won't slow down if you show them their state's driver's license.

[5k-claim]

... I would make the drive up from Lexington to Presque Isle Downs more often if I had one. I also think that Indiana is closer. (Yes, I got a 'C' in geography back in school...)

.

[FenceBored]

... I would make the drive up from Lexington to Presque Isle Downs more often if I had one. I also think that Indiana is closer. (Yes, I got a 'C' in geography back in school...)

.

Looks like you should have gotten a 'A' to me.

maps.google.com is my friend for geography questions like this.

Generic Lex to Presque Isle = 426 miles
Generic Lex to Hoosier Park = 193 miles
Generic Lex to Indiana Downs = 168 miles

Go Indiana Breds. I mean go, it's your break, hon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcmdW4H_WSQ).

[5k-claim]

Looks like you should have gotten a 'A' to me.

maps.google.com is my friend for geography questions like this.

Generic Lex to Presque Isle = 426 miles
Generic Lex to Hoosier Park = 193 miles
Generic Lex to Indiana Downs = 168 miles

Go Indiana Breds. I mean go, it's your break, hon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcmdW4H_WSQ). Hey, thanks for the info!

Actually, I just know all of the tracks by how many hours the drive is (can make a merciful difference when coming home after a disappointing run- not much difference after running well), how much the shipping costs are (Presque Isle definitely higher than Indiana Downs or Hoosier) and also whether or not it requires an overnight trip (Presque Isle always does, Hoosier Park sometimes does, Indiana Downs never does.)

So, I like Indiana Downs the best.

But glad to see Google Maps backed me up on that one....

.

.