Why do people box exactas, tris, and supers?

[tbwinner]

I never understood the racetrack patron's obsession with boxing exactas, trifectas, and supers. Exactas may be I can understand if they have the field down to two contenders and can confidently throw out the rest. But boxing 3 horses in a tri, 4 in a super?
Playing a 4 horse super box it seems like the person is giving equal credit to all four horses and not considering anyone else for 3rd or 4th. I play exactas and tris all the time, don't get me wrong, but I key one or two horses on top. If I like more for the win spot, I SKIP the race.

I really don't understand it and never will. Several times I have wanted to book someone's bet at the track because I thought of how stupid it was. Is it only the racetracker that does this? Do experienced "real" players like we have here do this?

[tbwinner]

And on another note, on a regular basis, do people REALLY play straight exactas and tris all the time. Their numbers come in a different order and what is the most common phrase used?...."I should've BOXED it!"

I rarely do play straight exotics...If I like a horse to win I will key it over a few horses that could take 2nd.

[dansan]

keep on playing them straight more $$$$ for me

[Tom]

No.
Yes.
No.

[Uncle Salty]

I will play an exacta box on the Kentucky Derby, usually 7 or 8 horses, with a couple of reasonable longshots and hope for a big upset. It's mostly just to have a little action on the race.

Don't play exactas or tri's a lot otherwise, but if I do, it's usually backwheeling a longer odds horse to come in second or third over the likely winners.

[thaskalos]

The exotic bets I make must reflect my opinion on the race.

If the race shapes up right, then I will box two horses in an exacta...especially if their running styles complement each other pace-wise.

I also have no problem boxing 4 horses in the trifecta, if the odds and the conditions suit...although this in not my preferred style of play.

Superfectas are a different matter. I use only "keys" and "part-wheels" there.

If the races are contentious, and the odds warrant the play...then there is nothing wrong with boxing, IMO.

Of course...a lot depends on our handicapping proficiency. :)

[iceknight]

I really don't understand it and never will. Several times I have wanted to book someone's bet at the track because I thought of how stupid it was. Is it only the racetracker that does this? Do experienced "real" players like we have here do this?
I usually box all horses in the field in a superfecta and hope madly for Court Vision to come home the winner...

[pondman]

Do experienced "real" players like we have here do this?

It's not part of my method to play exotics-- I'm strict, on the nose. On rare occasions I'll make a place bet, if the odds are high enough, but it's ususually on a grade 1 race.

I think the math is against most exacta bets. Most don't pay enough. If I've got a horse singled at long odds, it's usually a better bet to throw a hundred on the nose vs trying to wheel it in a tri and having a short price horse come in second.

[Canarsie]

I will never openly criticize one's wagering patterns because it could be successful for them. It really doesn't matter how it's executed if it's in the black.

Personally I box 2 horses in exactas a lot depending on the odds. There are usually three different ways I bet them which are straight, box, and xx/xxx which is two on top with three on the bottom. If there aren't the right horses to my liking I might ladder a bet on the longest priced one but it's not definite.

Tri's and Supers I almost never box but there are times exceptions can be made. A couple of weeks ago at Churchill there were three horses who had really strong jockey/trainer ROI's in the same race. Turns out the longest shot won paying around $44 while the other two low priced horses ran second and third. I won over $200 on it for a buck (cost was $6) but of course no one remembers all the losers bet that way.

This straight exacta formula I have found to be a winning one this year. Notice I said this year doesn't mean it will work forever. A horse is less than 1/2 with eight minutes to go. Slowly the second choice in the field odds start dropping steadily. By post time instead of 8/1 or higher they are now 5/2 or less. I hit one at Calder yesterday with this method and it came back $14. Of course you can also go use the bet against the bridgejumper if the pool warrants it.

Bottom line is what works for one might not work for another. The only way it can really be argued is if you go over your wagering ledger for the year. I download results from up to fifteen tracks a day then at the end of the year burn them on a DVD along with other files that can be helpful.

[Shemp Howard]

There's a lot less of that going on these days. Those former "patrons" are now pulling the handle at the slots.

[fmolf]

One of my favorite exacta plays if the odds warrant is the solid favorite(preferably a speedy frontrunner who wires the field) on top with a few longshot closers on bottom(30/1 + preferred)...I'll look at Barry Meadows exacta matrix to see which payouts are overlayed and bet from there....Due to my copious record keeping :rolleyes: I have decided i am better playing a larger exacta with my win horse on top and two or three underneath.Extra money won with larger bets is greater then monies won when boxing for less on each combo...so 3 $4 exactas = a $2 box but i do not get combos i do not like or want.If i have more than two solid win horses i pass the race,maybe betting the one who's most overlayed in the win pool.

[CincyHorseplayer]

I play 90% of my bet on straight exactas on odds up to 3-1.7/2 and up it's worth distributing the money a little more top and bottom.I never use my #1 selection with more than 2 horses except on savers with contenders.

Cashing more than 50% of plays justifies this than puritan nitpicking.Covering the likely outcomes makes sense and takes the risky out of this bet.If you can't deal with the philosophical realities you shouldn't play them at all.

[RunForTheRoses]

I do agree with the OP, I don't know why people mindlessly box. I guess it is because they can't think more "outside the box".

Instead of complaining though just realize it creates better payouts when the favorite wins in Tris and Supers. If there is a logical 6/5 shot many will box equally with two or three others which creates value with the favorite on top.

[JohnGalt1]

I do agree with the OP, I don't know why people mindlessly box. I guess it is because they can't think more "outside the box".

Instead of complaining though just realize it creates better payouts when the favorite wins in Tris and Supers. If there is a logical 6/5 shot many will box equally with two or three others which creates value with the favorite on top.

The key is your use of the word "mindlessly", whick I agree too many poeple do.

We've all seen poeple bet single/all/all $1 tri's. I always wonder, since it's basically a win bet for whatever the tri costs, would the same dollar amount bet to win pay more or less than gambling that longshots finish second and third.

I've also seen $1 tri players play single/single/single and miss hundred(s) payoffs because they saved $5 by not boxing.

When I bet one horse to win I'll bet it in an exacta box with the horse that may also finish first or second, or one to win with 2 or three horses over my win horse instead of a place bet.

I don't box 5,6,7 or more horses in anything, even $.10 supers, but since what we do is relatively difficult, whatever makes you, me, and anyone else money, more power to you.

[Robert Fischer]

in a small percentage of the races you can't separate 3 or 4 horses and you still have an edge. In those races you should box. I don't see any benefit in artificially structuring those exotics into a bottom heavy traditional structure.

in general you can separate the contenders, and structuring according to win probability affords a higher ROI while using more combinations or even boxing buys you hit% at the expense of ROI. In this case a guy at the track whose bankroll may consist only of cash on hand, may benefit by using more combinations in the short term, particularly if he still has an edge on the wager. If you have a good sized bankroll and you you are playing "long term", then you will use less combinations and structure your wagers according to your estimate of the contender's probability.

[RunForTheRoses]

[QUOTE=JohnGalt1]The key is your use of the word "mindlessly", whick I agree too many poeple do.


Yeah, I think its OK to box three which are, too you, fairly close, especially if you're trying to beat the favorite. "All" players are trying to catch lightning in a bottle and will remember when the 2/1 finished first over longshots, they just don't remember the days when it doesn't work out.

[rastajenk]

How do you guys know what other players do "mindlessly?" Are you crawling around inside their heads and finding nothing? :confused:

[RunForTheRoses]

How do you guys know what other players do "mindlessly?" Are you crawling around inside their heads and finding nothing? :confused:

Yeah that would be pretty arrogant of me to think I know what others think or why they act. My opinions apply to many, not all, based on years of working as a Mutuel Teller and years more hanging around tracks,OTBs and racebooks. For many-not all, the box is THE bet. And FTR I'm not saying you should never box, just be careful. Also, many opportunities are there in exotics for putting the favorite on top in keys and part wheels because many box.

[tbwinner]

Yeah that would be pretty arrogant of me to think I know what others think or why they act. My opinions apply to many, not all, based on years of working as a Mutuel Teller and years more hanging around tracks,OTBs and racebooks. For many-not all, the box is THE bet. And FTR I'm not saying you should never box, just be careful. Also, many opportunities are there in exotics for putting the favorite on top in keys and part wheels because many box.

Reminds me of the guy standing next to me at Arlington rooting for a 1-9 shot at Calder in a 5 horse field. He shows me his ticket, $2 exacta box with the 1-9 shot OVER all, AND reverse. Yep...sure he made money :bang:

[lamboguy]

last sunday at dover downs, there were 3 horses that went off 1-9, all 3 won and the second horse went off at between 200-1 and 400-1 and the exacta's all paid less than $5.00

[tzipi]

If I like two horses above everyone else and can't really seperate them, I will box them but if I love one horse I don't box, I go with my judgement and key that one horse on top. JMO.