Cross Examination

[bigmack]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/CrossremovedatbaseinAfghanistan-TimMak-POLITICOcom.png

Pentagon spokesperson Commander William Speaks confirmed the cross was removed and told POLITICO, “The removal was, in fact, in accordance with Army regulations” and pointed out that the Army chaplain manual prohibits permanent display of religious symbols.

“Distinctive religious symbols, such as crosses… will not be affixed or displayed permanently on the chapel interior, exterior or grounds,” reads the manual.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69039.html

Who makes up these inane policies?

[Tom]

Whoever gave that order needs to brought up on treason charges - then fragged.

Miserable POS.

[TJDave]

Why is this surprising?

Everyone knows we've been fighting for the rights of oppressed Muslims to be more, well... Muslim.

Did y'all think we was fighting for Jesus? :rolleyes:

[HUSKER55]

perhaps I don't get it. Aren't Muslims against Christianity? If so, then that cross becomes a target with a label. I doubt it makes a big difference in a war zone though.

[Robert Goren]

When we trying to get the local Muslims to join our side in the war against the Taliban, it does not make a lot of sense to the Cross in their faces. It is like hold up a "I love Obama" sign at tea party rally. It is not going to get very many converts to our cause.

[Tom]

How about the drop their stinking knees and kiss the feet of our soldiers for bothering to save their sorry, worthless asses - we are there because THEY are not capable of living like civilized people and taking care of themselves. We are fighting the Taliban because THEY have no backbones and are sniveling cowards for the most part. So if our cross offends them, too frigging bad. Their miserable Flintstone country offends me. People that have not evolved are not worth saving.

[Robert Goren]

How about the drop their stinking knees and kiss the feet of our soldiers for bothering to save their sorry, worthless asses - we are there because THEY are not capable of living like civilized people and taking care of themselves. We are fighting the Taliban because THEY have no backbones and are sniveling cowards for the most part. So if our cross offends them, too frigging bad. Their miserable Flintstone country offends me. People that have not evolved are not worth saving. I can't say that I disagree with you on that. I think we ought get our butts out there as fast as we can(that shouldn't more than 2 days at the outside). But if we are going be there trying to win the hearts and minds of the people, erecting crosses is not the way to go.

[lsbets]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/CrossremovedatbaseinAfghanistan-TimMak-POLITICOcom.png


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1111/69039.html

Who makes up these inane policies?

Chapels are non denominational, they are there for soldiers of all faiths, not just one. Religious symbols are put up for services for each different faith and then taken down so the next one can be set up. Doesn't matter what it is - cross, star of david, crescent. The chaplain also serves another purpose - a counselor soldiers can go to who is not part of their chain of command, regardless of religious affiliation.

This article is a complete non story.

[bigmack]

This article is a complete non story.
Not according to those soldiers interviewed in the story. Guess it depends on how seriously you take faith and the symbols that go along with that faith.

[lsbets]

Not according to those soldiers interviewed in the story. Guess it depends on how seriously you take faith and the symbols that go along with that faith.

No, it would depend on how seriously you take Army regulations and if you understand the purpose of them. Most forward bases will only have on chaplain and one chapel. The chapel is for soldiers of all faiths, not just one.

[Johnny V]

If I remember correctly services in the military are conducted by either one chaplain or lay leaders in the command. That chapel is open for all faiths and services. The cross would be displayed inside when the Christian service is being conducted and then taken down for the Jewish or other faiths service. That's how I seem to remember it.

[lsbets]

You are correct Johnny.

[Dave Schwartz]

As a devout Christian I am, of course, pro-cross.

However, I've got to agree with LSBets on this one. The chapel is supposed to represent a place of faith that is welcoming to all faiths at the time they are in session. Therefore, putting up a temporary symbol needs to be enough.

To label it permanently with a cross (or a Star of David, for example) would indicate that it was first and foremost a Christian (or Jewish) place of worship.

That would not be what the military had in mind.

Just my opinion.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[bigmack]

To label it permanently with a cross (or a Star of David, for example) would indicate that it was first and foremost a Christian (or Jewish) place of worship.
Jewish would be last on the list if you went by demographic preponderance. I figured there to be about 5 or 6 total. Turns out I was WAY off... 65!

There are 65 Jewish attorneys on my block.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/PointsofJew-Jewsinthearmedforces.png

[Tom]

There are 65 Jewish attorneys on my block.

Cold be worse - could be on your BACK! :D

[lsbets]

Considering that we don't have a Ministry of Defence (with the British spelling), I doubt your figures Mack. Unless you are talking about the British military for some odd reason.

[Robert Goren]

Jewish would be last on the list if you went by demographic preponderance. I figured there to be about 5 or 6 total. Turns out I was WAY off... 65!

There are 65 Jewish attorneys on my block.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/PointsofJew-Jewsinthearmedforces.pngThere must be a awful lot of Atheists in the fox holes. The US has approximately 1.5 million people in the military. Afghanistan alone had over 100,000 US troops stationed there last summer. You need to check your source again.

[bigmack]

Corrected by Goren. :eek: Talk about humiliation.

That makes 3 mistakes in the last 15 years. Must be the tryptophan in the turkey making me delirious.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/OfficersDeathHighlightsDearthofJewsintheMilitaryFo rwardcom.png
http://www.forward.com/articles/116674/

[Johnny V]

Those numbers seem very low to me also. I know things probably have changed but when I was in boot camp and we were giving information for our dog tags when it came to declaring a religion we had to put one down. If someone did not have a preference or said they did not believe in any religion they were ordered by our company commander to pick one and put it down.